Snowblind ... yeah

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Stapler
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Post by Stapler » 2 months ago

Snowblind

So, I do understand how this card works in a vacuum, despite the confusing oracle wording change that was probably necessary but ultimately made the card read terribly. (Here it is to save clicks:)

"Enchant creature

Enchanted creature gets -X/-Y. If that creature is attacking, X is the number of snow lands defending player controls. Otherwise, X is the number of snow lands its controller controls. Y is equal to X or to enchanted creature's toughness minus 1, whichever is smaller."

My question is how it works with other cards, specifically with cards like Mire's Grasp that alter a creature's toughness. The card doesn't say "enchanted creature's base toughness", so a Giant Growth pumping up a 3/3 creature enchanted with Snowblind while its controller controls 3 snow lands will cause the Y to change appropriately (before Giant Growth, X=3 but the creature's toughness-1 is 2, so it was using 2 for the Y before, but now that the creature's toughness-1 is 5, Y switches to using X), but what about with -1/-1 effects?

Does it use time stamps? i.e. A 3/3 enchanted with a Dead Weight that is subsequently enchanted with a Snowblind with 3 snow lands will cause the creature to be a -2/1, but if a 3/3 that is already enchanted with Snowblind with 3 snow lands has a Dead Weight placed on it, it'll be a -2/-1 and die?

What about effects that occur on another layer, specifically -1/-1 counters? They're on 7d while Snowblind is happening on 7c, so if a 3/3 enchanted with Snowblind with 3 snow lands (and 0/1) has a -1/-1 counter placed on it, or if a 3/3 that already has a -1/-1 counter placed on it is then enchanted with a Snowblind with 3 snow lands, either way, because the -1/-1 counter is applied after Snowblind, the creature will be a -1/0 and die?

Accepted Answer

by WizardMN » 2 months ago
It would apply in timestamp order. In the first scenario it seems you have it right. Dead Weight applies first which means Snowblind can't kill it. If Snowblind applied first, Dead Weight can kill it.

The second scenario is basically the same. Counters no longer have their own sublayer. They are all part of 7c which would then go back to timestamp to determine which one applies last. The scenario would be the same as above: if something has two -1/-1 counters on it, and then Snowblind is attached, Snowblind won't kill it. But if Snowblind is attached first, the counter(s) can kill it.
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Post by WizardMN » 2 months ago

It would apply in timestamp order. In the first scenario it seems you have it right. Dead Weight applies first which means Snowblind can't kill it. If Snowblind applied first, Dead Weight can kill it.

The second scenario is basically the same. Counters no longer have their own sublayer. They are all part of 7c which would then go back to timestamp to determine which one applies last. The scenario would be the same as above: if something has two -1/-1 counters on it, and then Snowblind is attached, Snowblind won't kill it. But if Snowblind is attached first, the counter(s) can kill it.

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