Rankle and Torbran

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WizardMN
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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

I have been finding that too many of my decks fit within the same general archetypes: control or midrange. With a few that are a hybrid of the two. When I play online, this isn't the biggest deal but now that I am trying to get back into playing in person it is becoming a bigger issue. This is mostly due to the fact that stores have to close so if we get to 8:30 PM or later, it is a crapshoot to start a new game and expect it to finish before the store closes at 10:00 PM.

Of course, I have been wanting more aggressive decks anyway and have built Daretti, Scrap Savant as an option for this as well. Mogis is another deck being built in the same mindset. I have also wanted to put together a BR deck for a while anyway so this seemed like a good time for it.

I started off with Mishra, Claimed by Gix as the commander but I realized Mogis is a bit better on always trying to draw the game to a close. He isn't fast at it by any means, but he is generally consistent. I am still sort of going back and forth regarding how I want the crux of the deck to function. I have a little in the way of drain effects, such as with Blood Artist and I have quite a few "Each player sacrifices a creature" effects to keep things under control. I am not sure if this is exactly where I want to be or if I want to do more with damage doublers/increasers or something like that.

I feel that Blood Artist leads to more of an Aristocrats build and I am not entirely sure that is where I want to be, I already am not including things like Grave Pact for that reason. If I went the damage increaser route, Torbran, Thane of Red Fell can be alright (though not great since I have a lot of black in the deck) and things like Fiery Emancipation could be sort of fun. They just tend to be expensive so it is difficult to rely on those strategies.

One other thing of note is that while I am looking for more aggressive decks, that doesn't mean I am looking for aggro decks. This deck, as it tends to play out, is not considered aggro due to it still being somewhat controlling in nature and it is still a little slower. I also haven't figured out what I want the removal package to be beyond the forced sac effects and I don't have any wraths. I will likely include The Meathook Massacre but it is somewhat expensive online so I haven't tried it out yet.

So, with all of that being said, here is the list I am starting with. There are already cards that are on the chopping block (Captain Lannery Storm, Magda, Brazen Outlaw, Lyzolda, the Blood Witch and things like Blood Artist) but this is a relatively decent shell to start with and one I can hopefully work with going forward:
Rankle and Torbran

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

After some further testing, and a quick game (in which I lost to a Rafiq of the Many deck), I decided to go with the following changes:

A few of these are just mana changes. I hadn't gotten all the duals I felt I should have so I added them in here. The rest are changes in philosophy/direction such as getting rid of Blood Artist and Zulaport Cutthroat. Lyzolda is cut due mostly to costing too much for the activation. Captain Lannery, Madga, and Ragavan are good, especially with Mayhem Devil where I can sac the treasures and they work well for ramping. But they don't fit the theme of the deck well. Cavalier, at the time, was more of a placeholder to begin with though I might revisit it as I work on what I want for spot removal.

Toxic Deluge, Meathook, Massacre Wurm, and Massacre Girl are here to give me some wrath options. I don't know how far I want to go in this direction as I don't want this deck to keep resetting the board. But, I also want to win and these are necessary to not get blown out. Braids is just a card that seems to work exceptionally well in this deck in terms of the sac theme I have going on. And Mire in Misery fits as well and give me a way to deal with enchantments. It isn't great (I need to get Chaos Warp added soon) but it is one of the better options.

The main weakness I have still is that I don't often have a good army of creatures to sac to all my sac effects. During goldfishing, I have come across situations where I don't have creatures to sac to the two Rankles or to Priest of the Forgotten Gods so I might try to find a way to get some smaller creatures or a bunch of tokens or something. Not really sure what I want. Possibly something like Bitterblossom.

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Post by Chromaticus » 10 months ago

Ophiomancer supplies you with a steady stream of snakes.

Alliteration very intended.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

That's not a bad idea. I will have to see if I can find room for it.

Another thing I probably need is some lifegain somewhere in here. I have played 3 games online and I am targeted quite heavily so I don't think people like Mogis. I just had a game where I was at 4 life and got hit down to -1 to lose when I was about to get the back side of Sheoldred // The True Scriptures to go off next turn. But the entire game I was the one being attacked even when I had 3 lands at the beginning and hadn't done anything yet. So getting some lifegain later on might be relevant. Maybe even just something like Gray Merchant of Alphabet.

Things like Bitterblossom and Ophiomancer can be great to keep my life total a little higher in the early game. Maybe even Dreadhorde Invasion as it is far cheaper online. I likely want Ophiomancer eventually but I want to try these out first before I drop too much money into a line that might not be where I want to go.

Here are a couple changes I am trying to see if they can shore up some of the decks weaknesses, especially early on:

There is a few spot removal additions along with some token producers. I left out Ophiomancer based on cost for now, but it is one I will keep an eye on. With these changes, I am going down some of the sac outlets as I am finding I don't often need them. After all, I am not really doing anything with something like Grave Pact so I don't often need things to die "right now".

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Post by EonAon » 10 months ago

Rampaging Ferocidon
Tibalt, Rakish Instigator
Erebos, God of the Dead
Knight of Dusk's Shadow

These are cards I love to throw in my mogis deck, erebos is one people dont recall the total effect while it does lifting. Ferocidon hurts with blossom a bit but any go wide token strats it shuts down.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

I have Erebos which is a good card on its own, even ignoring the "Can't gain life" effect. Ferocidon is probably a good option as well if I want to go further into that as it also ensures more damage is dealt. I am not sure how deep I want to go on the effect though. The other two cards are middling and don't offer a lot beyond preventing life gain. I am not sure I would really be able to find the room for them if I wanted to.

I have decided to add in a few more sac effects and destroy spells. Here are a couple more changes I am trying out:
6/23/2023
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I am trying to go down on some of my own sac outlets as I am not doing a lot with them and because I am trying to make people sac things with other effects, I don't often have a lot of extra stuff to sac. With that being said, Liliana can help me replace the things I am sacrificing and the others give me options to get rid of big creatures of my opponents. The last couple times I lost, it was because someone went tall on me and I couldn't block enough damage to survive. So getting rid of big creatures specifically seems like a good option.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

I finally managed to win a game but it was a bit hollow. One of the players was targeting me fairly heavily but it wasn't too bad. One of the other people (playing Karametra) decided to go after the person going after me since they were a fairly large threat. The person being attacked chose to time out and concede instead of continue playing. I then cast Sheoldred // The True Scriptures the next turn and this caused Karametra to scoop since Karametra was their only creature.

From there, I was able to deal with the final player with things like Massacre Wurm and Liliana, Dreadhorde General. They were never really able to get a foothold so I just ran them over fairly well.

This again showed the difficulty this deck is having in actually taking control of the game. Had the first player not scooped, it is possible I would have been targeted again and not been able to hold off 3 people. So I got a little lucky that 2 others scooped so early. But, that further highlights that this deck is having a very difficult time surviving early and going into the long game. I don't have much for wraths which might be bad and Mogis tends to draw hate.

I might need to rethink the direction of the deck along with the commander. Perhaps throwing Mishra back in as the commander would be good. Or maybe just going Rankle and Torbran as they fit the theme fairly well. Though, if I do change the direction away from "have people sac stuff" they don't make as much sense.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

The first couple games with Rankle and Torbran at the helm have been a bit more fruitful. I don't seem to be the immediate target and having a creature in the command zone is fairly relevant in terms of combat in general. The two games I played both had a K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth deck in them (I assume it was the same person though I am not sure) and the first ended with the client bugging out since K'rrik was down to 2 life and was trying to exchange life totals with someone but that player scooped in response. This likely would have led to the death of K'rrik but due to the client issues, we never found out.

In the next game, I got Erebos, God of the Dead down on turn 3 and he stayed out there the entire game which prevented those shenanigans again. The board had been getting out of control but a well timed Toxic Deluge got everything squared away again. Though, one player scooped at this for some reason. I did see their hand thanks to Valki, God of Lies // Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor and, while not great, was probably fine as we tried to get back into the game.

In any case, I basically spent the next few turns just keeping K'rrik under control as I didn't want to deal with any of the stuff they were trying to do. I made them sac their commander with Rankle and Torbran and they scooped after that. From there, it was just me and The Ur-Dragon and they were in a pretty good spot compared to me. They got me low but I was able to gain life with Gray Merchant of Alphabet and wrath the board with The Meathook Massacre. Bedevil also came in handy to blow up their dragon that produced mana so they couldn't cast their commander. I did debate on blowing up their Lightning Greaves but this I felt was the better play at the time.

Greaves still did a bit and got me down to 6 after using Cyclonic Rift but then I was able to get Rankle and Torbran out again along with Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger and Gray Merchant of Alphabet one more time. This draining was enough for them to throw in the towel.

I do like Kroxa here but I am thinking Ob Nixilis, the Adversary might be overkill in that department. The 2 life isn't often relevant enough (though it might have been in the late game this game) and I actually held onto him at the end since I had better things to do. This might be a spot that is better off as something else. Eradicator Valkyrie is also another one that likely isn't pulling its weight, though it is sort of on the line. I like the effect, but I don't get to use it often enough yet. I am still wanting to hold onto it until I give Ophiomancer a try. The last card I still have on the chopping block is Mishra, Claimed by Gix. I like the lfe gain but don't often have a huge army for it to really get much use. I still like the idea of it though so I am holding onto it.

As part of swapping Mogis, God of Slaughter and Rankle and Torbran (Mogis is in the 99 for now), I also made the following changes:
6/24/2023
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I wanted the extra wrath and Abomination wasn't working out as well as I wanted. This, again, is likely another card that works well with Bitterblossom and Ophiomancer but without those, it ends up being a draw one for 4 mana since I will likely end up sacrificing it to itself.

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Post by Avacyn Believer » 10 months ago

Interesting to see how your deck developed. I've been thinking about Magic myself for some type because I really like his card art and concept. Though I am leaning more towards maximising the damage output and have the deck focus around dealing more and more damage to everyone each turn.

I am curious if your experience would be different in person than online. I don't play online at all, but I travel a lot and play with different groups, and in general find that most people do not have their decks full of the best/staple cards because majority of people are limited by the cards they own, and are willing to buy or proxy. Which I feel allows for more casual fun.
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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

That was one path I thought about taking and it just ended up being one that I don't like as much. It is a reasonable way to take the deck though. Things like Sulfuric Vortex and maybe even Underworld Dreams or something like that to keep damage occurring each turn could work.

As to the experience online vs in person, that is something I thought of as well. And I think this is one where the experience absolutely would be different. And I don't think this is a changing meta issue or something like that. I think this ends up just being an issue with communication and the fact that communication flows more freely in person than online. Yeah, card availability makes a difference but even just a quick explanation about the deck's focus can change perceptions. Online it is tougher to explain the deck so there will always be assumptions about the deck that people are just going to operate under. So I do admit that my journey with the deck to go from Mogis to Rankle and Torbran is affected by doing more online and wanting it to be viable online.

Of course, there is also the argument that it wasn't as successful as it could have been, even with the "hate" against Mogis, because I didn't want to go all in on the damage increasers that perhaps people expected.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

6/24/2023
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Here are some changes I decided to go with. Ophiomancer was a good suggestion earlier and I decided to try a couple other "consistent" token producers. There aren't many I like and while these other two only get me, at max, 1 per turn cycle (Ophiomancer can get me up to 4), I felt they worked well enough to try out. Most likely, they get cut and with Jadar probably being the worst one, but I didn't like things like Goblin Rabblemaster since the token had to attack making it less useful.

Eradicator Valkyrie and Mishra were ones I commented on and I don't think they fit as well as I would like. Mountain is just being cut because I do tend to flood on lands a little so 37 lands seems like a reasonable spot to be. If I find this is an issue, I can go back to 38 later.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

Played another game and things are looking up for this build with Rankle and Torbran at the helm. It wasn't a perfect representation since one person scooped immediately and another scooped after I cast Kroxa for some reason. They had 6 cards in hand so they didn't lose much. But whatever. So, it was just me and Sauron left and Sauron had 0 cards in hand after Kroxa made them discard theirs. And man, did they come back hard. Sauron, Lord of the Rings into The Balrog of Moria into Sauron, the Dark Lord really got them back into things. They ended up with an Army token that was 20 power.

But, Bitterblossom gave me chump blockers for days, Rankle and Torbran made them keep sacrificing stuff and Tergrid, God of Fright // Tergrid's Lantern got me some of the things they sacrificed. I am not sure why they didn't sac their token but they did sac Lord Xander, the Collector at one point and this gave me a good creature to sac to Diamond Valley which gave me all of their artifacts since those were the permanents they sacrificed to the trigger.

It was really back and forth but Rankle came through huge as well as Mayhem Devil. This was actually how I ended up winning the game. I was at 6 life and they were at 12. I attacked with Rankle and Torbran and chose all 3 modes. This made them sac a creature and I sacrificed a creature which dealt 6 damage to them from the Devil. I then sacrificed the Treasure and another Treasure I already had to deal 12 damage to them total from the Devil. I also had Diamond Valley still so I could have done 3 more if needed. I kind of wish there was another card like Mayhem Devil but the closest is Havoc Jester but that only cares about stuff I sac which is less useful.

I am really liking this new direction. I might do more with some Undying or Persist creatures to give me some ":extra" creatures to sacrifice. There are a couple good ones out there. But the token producers, with Bitterblossom being the biggest so far, are really coming through nicely. Phyrexian Obliterator might be fun but I doubt it often does much beyond eat a removal spell.

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Post by Avacyn Believer » 10 months ago

It is odd to read how often people just scoop online lol my only experience with that was meeting a person who scooped every time you tried to mill or control his cards :rofl:
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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

That is one of the weaknesses of the platform which simply ties into one of the strengths. Because a game can be found online in a matter of minutes, it is easier for people to just give up on a game that isn't going quite their way. I think I too have only seen one player in person ever get to a point where they will scoop at the drop of a hat. Luckily, those types of players are few and far between in person.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

I played this deck for the first time in person and I think it went alright. I ended up losing due to running out of gas but things worked reasonably well before that.

I was able to keep the board mostly clear with the sac effects though one player was able to get out of it decently. Rankle kept going and ended up getting to 18 commander damage on a player but when I swung for the last 3, they removed them which actually cost me the game (or, at least, cost me the chance at winning right then). Sheoldred played a large part in keeping things clean though I had two chances to get to her third mode on the saga and she was blown up before that happened both times.

Once I ran out of cards and ran out of things to do, I sort of just ended up dying to one of the other people as I couldn't defend myself anymore. Tergrid was helpful as well and she got me a few things, but she was removed before anything big happened. Bitterblossom also put in a lot of work for sac fodder and for blocking.

In the end, I do like how the deck played. I am really liking Mayhem Devil in this deck and it is making me wish there was at least one more effect just like it out there. Nothing really stood out to me as a problem. If I absolutely had to cut something, it would likely be Gifted Aetherborn since it doesn't do a lot and maybe even Mogis, God of Slaughter but he is almost always a creature with Rankle out and his effect is a good one so I am liking the idea of him in the 99. But beyond that, I am really liking the deck overall even if I didn't win. I had my chance at winning and was reliant on Rankle hitting the one opponent so I could get the third mode and since that didn't happen, my attacks were only enough to bring the other player to 5. And they ended up going on to win from there.

I did make the following changes before playing and I think they are pretty self-explanatory:
6/30/2023
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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

Here are my thoughts regarding Lord of the Rings and the LOTR Commander set:

Black Cards

Gollum, Scheming Guide - He could be a good option for card draw or at least setting up future draws. Because he is so cheap, I think he is worth trying out to see what happens.

Lobelia, Defender of Bag End - I think this can help me with some of my card advantage woes and Rankle and Torbran can ensure I always have an artifact to sac to her. Because I only get one trigger for exiling cards though, she is really just a really bad draw 3 (at best) so maybe she isn't all that good.

Lobelia Sackville-Baggins - This looks like a pretty good card to potentially get me a mass of Treasures. It is conditional but I do like what she can potentially do.

Nasty End - Not great here as it is a worse Village Rites more often than not but there might be scenarios where it makes sense and can even get me 3 cards. Since I do tend to run out of gas, this could be a good top deck in certain cases.

Shelob, Dread Weaver - Another card advantage "engine" and one that works with the rest of the deck to ensure that creatures being sacrificed are exiled so they can't come back. A bit of a nonbo with Tergrid but I think that is fine.

Witch-king, Bringer of Ruin - Works with the overall theme of the deck though does only get the lowest power creature. Which, arguably, it basically what most others in this deck do too. And it is repeatable and on a big enough body that he could be worth trying. 6 mana is on the high end but still not terrible.

Witch-king of Angmar - Though, it might be possible that this is the better way to go. It isn't proactive but it is cheaper and gets at least something that damaged me so I can sort of control what gets sacrificed depending on how I block. Of course, getting hit is its own detriment so that might not be ideal.

Red Cards

Cavern-Hoard Dragon - I don't really know how good this will be but Rankle can potentially help with the cost reduction. Plus it helps break the symmetry of Rankle's Treasure granting mode. I will probably try to find a spot for this.

Gimli, Counter of Kills - This is another option to deal direct damage to people. And the fact that it is damage matters for Rankle. However, it still isn't quite as good as just plain old Blood Artist in most cases.

Spiteful Banditry - Another The Meathook Massacre (more or less) but one that gives treasures instead isn't bad. I almost like it better as just a token producer as my opponent's creatures should be dying often enough and then the emergency mode of board wipe is simply nice to have on top of that.

There and Back Again - Man....5 mana ramp is tough but then to produce a Dragon that can create 14 Treasures is pretty good. I don't think I will get to the third Chapter very often but it looks like a fun card.

Multicolor Cards

Lidless Gaze - This is basically a draw 4 though I may or may not be able to use all 4 cards. But I think I like the potential. Arguably, there are other options though so maybe this isn't quite as good as I want. I will think on it some more.

The Balrog Durin's Bane - I have tried this card in this deck but ended up cutting it for now. I do like the card a lot though and might revisit it as an option later on.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

I am going to try out the following cuts in order to try some of the newer cards above:

I don't have room to try everything but I feel like these cards. I spoke about the adds above so I won't rehash that.

As for the cuts, there aren't a lot that are easy to make. Mogis is still here from being part of the deck originally but he might not make a ton of sense. Valki isn't as good as I would like and Nighthawk Scavenger is basically just a blocker. Szat's Will is expensive and I don't think does enough. Henrika Domnathi is probably the main one I don't like cutting but I couldn't come up with anything else I wanted to cut to make room for new options. So I am going to go with it for now and might add it back in if any of these adds don't pan out.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

I just played another game with this deck online and it went pretty well, even if I did misplay at a significant point. The punt didn't cost me the game but it could have. I was playing against Sythis, Harvest's Hand, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Halana, Kessig Ranger & Alena, Kessig Trapper partners

Start of Summary

I started the game with 2 lands but with Bitterblossom and Solemn Simulacrum in hand. I did draw a couple lands in a row which helped. I started with the Bitterblossom into Braids, Arisen Nightmare which I used to sac the Faerie token to get some cards. This helped ensure my future land drops. Solemn then ramped me into Rankle and Torbran which I used to make everyone sac stuff (I sacrificed Solemn).

Sythis was goign pretty well to get enchantments and they got out Sigil of the Empty Throne which worked well against Rankle. Krenko wasn't casting many creatures but they did establish an infinite combo with Krenko on board with Goblin Bombardment and Thornbite Staff. They just needed Krenko on the field and give him haste (which they could do with Hall of the Bandit Lord). The main thing stopping this was that they were a mana short of doing everything in one turn so we were able to survive that. I also attacked them quite heavily. More so to get my triggers from Rankle and Cavern-Hoard Dragon but it worked out.

Partners ended up with an explosive turn where they turned 7 mana into Ayara, First of Locthwain and Etali, Primal Storm off of Plargg and Nassari and then a ton of stuff off Etali, Primal Conqueror // Etali, Primal Sickness with Old Gnawbone being the primary one. I did misread this card which is where I screwed up: I forgot it triggered off any creature dealing damage so when Partners attacked me to 9, I just took it when I should have blown up the Gnawbone first to cut off their mana for the turn.

Instead they cast a ton more stuff and their Defiler of Instinct got my life even lower. They got me to 6 and my own Mana Crypt got me to 3. But, on my turn, I was able to cast Dockside Extortionist (for the 5th or 6th time) thanks to getting it back with Phyrexian Reclamation and then I used that mana to cast Gray Merchant of Asphodel which I then sacrificed and recast twice more to ultimately win the game.

End of Summary

I do admit that I won the game partly on the idea that Krenko did not scoop since that additional sacrifice of Gray Merchant was helpful. I possibly could have won without it so I think I may still have been able to make it work but I appreciate the opponent not scooping there. Also, Gray Merchant was key since Sythis had Solitary Confinement on the field which was preventing all damage so loss of life was my main option for winning this game.

All in all, the deck performed extraordinarily well. As mentioned, I cast Dockside 5 or 6 times which gave me a ton of mana to work with so I could keep everything going. I am not sure if there were any cards I came across that I felt weren't good which suggests the list is in a very good place overall.

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Post by WizardMN » 8 months ago

Here are my thoughts regarding Wilds of Eldraine and the Wilds of Eldraine Commander set:

Black Cards

Rankle's Prank - I think a card with Rankle's name on it deserves a look just for that. And the third ability especially is one that I am most interested in, though the second ability can be useful too. I am not sure how much I would use the first ability but it is an option for the right situations.

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Post by WizardMN » 7 months ago

I am going to try out these changes
9/22/2023

CUTS

Approximate Total Cost:

There aren't really any cards that I look at and see as being bad or needing to be replaced. Which is good in a sense as it means that, for the most part, the list is in a good spot. But it does make it tough to find cuts. I feel like Mire in Misery is the cut here. I don't really use the enchantment mode so it is just creature sacrifice which Rankle's Prank does among other effects. Yes, it is double the cost but it does cause double the sacrifices. So, I am going to try this out to see what it might be able to do.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 months ago

Here are my thoughts regarding Lost Caverns of Ixalan, Murder at Karlov Manor, their Commander Decks, and the Doctor Who Commander set. I know I have not been keeping up so hopefully this covers all the sets I have missed:

Black Cards

Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal - This sort of plays into some of Rankle and Torbran's effect but I generally prefer the sacrifice a creature mode. I am not doing a lot with the card discard so I am not sure I want to go further down that route. If I did, this might be a decent option.

Bitter Triumph - This is a pretty good removal spell. The mana cost is right and it is versatile. 3 life is sort of a lot but could be worth it. I will probably pick some up and then see where they fit.

Multicolor Cards

Rakdos, Patron of Chaos - This plays well into the idea of making opponents sacrifice permanents. The main issue is the mana cost which might be too high for this to work well. If I have the room, I might try it out, but I will have to think on it a little more.

Colorless and Land Cards

New dual typed lands - More fetchable lands is always good and I don' think these are too bad. However, I am wary about the effect entering tapped all the time would have. I will probably pick some up but I am not sure I will ever get to the point of actually playing them considering all the better alternatives.

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WizardMN
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Post by WizardMN » 2 months ago

2/19/2024
Approximate Total Cost:

Witch-King is pretty generic in this deck and isn't the greatest fit overall. Rakdos is a little better option for the deck even with being 1 more mana. I am not sold on Rakdos either but it seems to fit a bit better anyway.

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WizardMN
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Post by WizardMN » 1 month ago

Here are my thoughts regarding Outlaws of Thunder Junction and the associated Commander set:

Multicolor Cards

Akul the Unrepentant - Not entirely sure this fits but it could offer up a way to get some of my more expensive creatures onto the field. Arguably though, I could see this guy leading up a new Rakdos deck entirely. I like the effect and I think I like the potential playstyle more than Rankle and Torbran. I might think on this a little and decide if I want to move over to Akul as a different Rakdos commander.

Rakdos, the Muscle - I think this makes sense in this deck but probably more so if I were to switch over to an Akul deck. I don't like the last ability only being able to be activated once per turn, but I do like the card.

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