Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
4 years ago
I got really excited about Mystic Sanctuary, until I reread it and realized you need 3 other Islands in play to get its ability. I'm running the three relevant shock lands along with Fetid Pools, Irrigated Farmland, andSunken Hollow for basic land types, as well as the three relevant fetch lands, but I still don't feel like I'm consistently getting 3 Islands in play most games, let alone 3+a specific other "Island".

I'd be curious to see what experience everyone has with this once it goes live, but I think most of the time it's just going to be a non-basic Island that enters tapped.
Hesitation from my end too. Still, I'm going to give it a go. My thinking is I'm not interested in recurring anything until I've got a few bits in the yard anyway, so early game I wouldn't bother dropping it anyway. By the time I do want to drop it I should be able to get that clause easy enough. It does mean if it's in hand early it's a dead duck though.

Honestly, with few other options for this type of effect, I'll give it a punt. Skaab and Dralnu just don't fit the curve or the deck.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

Tags:

Supersprite
Posts: 44
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Supersprite » 4 years ago

Tombstone stairwell and revel in riches are a fun casual combo

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Supersprite wrote:
4 years ago
Tombstone stairwell and revel in riches are a fun casual combo
More like a hilarious combo. Man, high fives round the table if you can get this one to come off without disruption. That's....kind of awesome, and it's just the kind of janky combo an alternate win condition ought to be. Well spotted!
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

So, posting some Eldraine updates. Admittedly, the list is at a point where there's not a ton I'm desperate to add, and none of these inclusions ought to come as a surprise.

InOut
Foulmire KnightPhyrexian Delver
True Love's KissReturn to Dust
Mystic SanctuarySwamp


The first swap is an easy one for being on curve, which we've all discussed before. I didn't really get a ton of testing in with Delver, but I'm indifferent to that - a rattlesnake and draw is suitable replacement, and this is one of the few decks I have options to recur for the adventure in Lord of the Undead and Volrath's Stronghold.

We've talked over Dust vs Kiss. I stand by my stance that Kiss is more certain value than Dust. For the same cost you get certainty that you can destroy one thing and draw a card. With Dust I'll often just choose something to tack on because I can, which isn't nothing, but if you don't really need it gone are you getting value from the spell? I don't think so. I''ll take the draw, it's a sure thing.

Sanctuary....I won't lie, I'm hesitant. It's worth a try, purely because the other options for spell recursion aren't really suitable in the deck, to my mind. I'll need to be careful as to when it drops to get the value I want, but otherwise it should work ok. I sort of feel like this is a temporary add until something better comes along, but you never know.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
katsuma
Posts: 12
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by katsuma » 4 years ago

Hey! First off, I love this thread -- I made an account just to comment on it.

I've put together my own Varina deck: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-08-1 ... 1570466239

It has evolved from an aristocrats win-con to a more combat focused one because I got bored of the aristocrats win (this was a Yahenni mono-black deck a couple of iterations ago). I definitely feel like aristocrats is the most powerful build for this deck but it's too generically black for me. I haven't really played it in person that much - I've been playing a Yuriko deck that I had to retire because it got too good :( I also had Approach of the Second Sun but I felt very guilty when it won a game for me. Also cut back on the mass reanimator approach for more controlling maybe (with the board wipes and removal).

Cards that I think might be spicy and that I'm wondering if anyone has experience with: Bolas's Citadel, Lich's Mastery? Also, is the Lab Man win a viable option?

Anything jump out as clear cuts/additions? Thanks!

Kvothe
Posts: 28
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Kvothe » 4 years ago

katsuma wrote:
4 years ago
I've been playing a Yuriko deck that I had to retire because it got too good :( I also had Approach of the Second Sun but I felt very guilty when it won a game for me. Also cut back on the mass reanimator approach for more controlling maybe (with the board wipes and removal).

Cards that I think might be spicy and that I'm wondering if anyone has experience with: Bolas's Citadel, Lich's Mastery? Also, is the Lab Man win a viable option?
If you feel guilty for Second Sun you won't enjoy winning with Lab Maniac, in my opinion.

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

katsuma wrote:
4 years ago
Hey! First off, I love this thread -- I made an account just to comment on it.
Thanks a lot, and welcome :) I definitely feel like the thread is interesting because of the interest in it, so I won't take the credit for your enjoyment. Nonetheless I am pleased we have been of service.
katsuma wrote:
4 years ago
I've put together my own Varina deck: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-08-1 ... 1570466239

It has evolved from an aristocrats win-con to a more combat focused one because I got bored of the aristocrats win (this was a Yahenni mono-black deck a couple of iterations ago). I definitely feel like aristocrats is the most powerful build for this deck but it's too generically black for me. I haven't really played it in person that much - I've been playing a Yuriko deck that I had to retire because it got too good I also had Approach of the Second Sun but I felt very guilty when it won a game for me. Also cut back on the mass reanimator approach for more controlling maybe (with the board wipes and removal).
I definitely get the idea of aristocrats being a little stale. I enjoy it purely because it doesn't necessarily end the game, it just gives you advantage from almost any scenario. Best case scenario you win, sure. Most case scenario, it just puts enough pressure on the game for your opponents to make mistakes that you can take advantage from.
Here's my thoughts on your list:
  • Generally it's looking quite solid. It speaks to your meta bit with some choices (I assume you see a fair amount of control and removal with Unsettled Mariner's inclusion). If you're really wanting to make combat your mainstay, there's definitely things you could add - Reconnaissance and Eldrazi Monument would both be strong adds. Monument has straight up won me games with like, 3-4 zombies in play and just swinging persistently, and Recon just makes sure combat is literally always in your favour.
  • How have you found Time Wipe? I don't dislike it, I just think it's quite colour heavy, and I'm not sure there's a positive to having a single creature of ours left in play post wipe, as generally our strength lies in numbers.
  • As far as zombies, I remember having Unbreathing Horde in my list and it just not performing overly well. I'd think you could more or less replace it with any cheap zombie and see improvement. Unravelling Mummy is an interesting choice, too, how has it played out? I don't necessarily think it needs replacing, just one I haven't tried in the list so have no experience with.
  • Have you thought about adding Gravecrawler? I know it's a combo piece in some places, but it's up to you whether you add those or not. Even without them (altars or Rooftop Storm) it's a really, really strong add. Your low tide level is a one drop to swing with with impunity, and your high tide level is being able to repeatedly cast it with Carrion Feeder in play and spam tokens with God-Eternal Oketra and Diregraf Colossus. You can obviously then swing with these or tap them down with Cryptbreaker for some major gas. Trust me, you won't regret adding it.
If you feel guilty for Second Sun you won't enjoy winning with Lab Maniac, in my opinion.
Very much agree with this, although in answer to your question Lab Man is definitely viable here. Kindred Discovery in particular is REALLY strong draw, but because it's non-optional draw your deck numbers can get dangerously low.

In terms of your maybeboard, Zombie Infestation and Wonder seem like slam dunks. The first is just great with Bone Miser, Archfiend of Ifnir and generally reanimation, and the second is stunning for combat. Entreat the Dead sucks, don't bother with it. Lord of the Undead is one of the few ways you can abuse the adventure side of Foulmire Knight. Windfall is great, but I've found it really important to have some control over what you throw out with this list, so I'd look past it for other things like Ancient Excavation or Flux.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
katsuma
Posts: 12
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by katsuma » 4 years ago

Played with my new Varina build for the first time today, wow it was a blast! Our group was playing an Atla Palani, Nest Tender deck, a yawgmoth thran physician deck, and a kykar, wind's fury deck.
  • Played three, won one. Lost to an Atla Palani combo turn (Karmic Guide and Revillark) in the first, lost to a field of the dead and scapeshift turn (ironically) by the Kykar player after he switched to angry Omnath. My big takeaway from the losses is that I kept wishing I had more boardwipes in my deck (Sublime Exhalation?) (.
  • My big takeaway from the win: WOW Tombstone Stairwell IS AMAZING. You guys weren't joking. It was removed before it got around the table once, but did 60 points of total damage (from plague belcher) and knocked out another player first. Bone Miser also generated an unbelievable amount of value, as did Kindred Discovery. I definitely wanted to be drawing on top of the Varina card filtering.
  • Another big takeaway was that I kept forgetting to dump my leftover mana into Varina's second ability, it's not inconsequential to make the extra zombies. also, Wonder is great.
  • The deck definitely played like a mid-range deck more than I was expecting, I spent a lot of time interacting with counters/removal and building up the graveyard. Also, I never had a problem making land drops because of the card selection from Varina's ability, so I might go down on some ramp. Smothering Tithe is still amazing as always, so much value.
Here's the decklist: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-08-19-OsB-varina/

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Sounds like you had fun! And sounds like it was a well earned win against some tough competitors too.

Yup, Stairwell is straight up bonkers nuts. I think part of it is that people expect reanimation. Then you drop this and get an army anyway, life totals start to drop, and if no one has an answer that's game. Bare minimum it forces wasting removal on something you don't even need to touch to win with, so you're up either way come your next turn.

Varina's second ability is great value. Obviously you have to be careful what you're exiling - as a rule I generally won't exile creatures unless I'm desperate, but anything else is fair game. Often I'm choosing what to drop from looting in order to have stuff to exile. If I'm good for land, why keep it when it could be a creature? Even better if you can discard it from Zombie Infestation to get two critters. Same goes with reanimation/removal/wipes. You don't need to be stocked to the ceiling with them, you just need the most relevant pieces or valuable pieces and you can make do without the surplus. You gotta be careful, but at least you can make some lemonade from the lemons.

I think Jet Medallion is easily dropped. The deck is pretty colour heavy anyway. Likewise with Felwar. If you have colours sorted in your land base you're probably ok without it. I run the black splashed signets and talismans and they've been sufficient. Graf Harvest I've had good value from but you probably only need either Harvest or Wonder, not both. In play testing, I've found Gisa and Geralf fairly underwhelming personally. It's...ok, but just a little overcosted to fit well into how lean this build is.

Greaves and Boots I found I just don't need. The beauty of this build is most of the time you don't give a rats ass if one of your zombies gets pinged. You can get value from it in the yard or just get it back. They get better when there's a few of them so directed removal is a waste of time. So the shroud/hexproof thing is a waste of time here - it's not going to help with a wipe anyway right?. The haste is sometimes relevant, but in terms of early game because you want to curve into Varina anyway, casting Greaves or Boots is a waste of mana you could otherwise use for critters. Mid to late game it just becomes less important the more resources you have anyway, so they're easy cuts.

I think there's probably better wipes out there than Sublime Exhalation. If you're looking for cost reduction, Hour of Revelation is excellent, and so is Toxic Deluge if you can afford it. Austere Command has been great for me in terms of board control, because sometimes all the rocks need to die or you need a subsection of creatures gone. Merciless Eviction could be good too.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

So it's been a while since I've been able to play, but just this very moment managed to track down some of the last few bits I'm after for the list in its current form.




Yass, queen!


Someone decided to trade it in for some unknown reason, and who am I to deny them the credit and subsequently poach their excellent card? I never expected to grab it, as my LGS owner just told me his suppliers had mentioned that new C19 stocks aren't expected to hit New Zealand until JANUARY 2020. Ridiculous, absolutely ludicrous.

I also picked up the last couple of shocks, Hallowed Fountain and Godless Shrine. Fairly happy with the additions, I'm thinking it'll probably be the Shadows over Innistrad lands that drop for these (I don't know if they have a nickname). Other than these, the only other nonbasic I'm super keen to add is Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, but it's a little hard to come by, so I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled.

I'm also thinking twice about Witch's Cottage. It's a bit niche, but its advantage in some cases. It's one of a very few ways to get back adventure cards for recasting in that context, it's likely to enter untapped most of the time, and it's very low risk if it doesn't trigger anyway. I know there's only one adventure card in here, but I figure I lose very little for trialling it nonetheless. I welcome any thoughts as always.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

boer0829
Posts: 32
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by boer0829 » 4 years ago

Nice man! Great additions to the deck!

I think those shadowlands are nice to fix mana, you really want to drop these? I recently added some to other decks, yet have to draw into one.

Witch's Cottage seems alright when you draw it later in the game. You don't waste a slot in your deck for some card that recurs a creature.

Thinking about to add Field of the Dead. Is it worth it to add it Esper colors? Or is it better to play with green ramp?

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

I dunno, it's either those or Arcane Sanctum and something else. The shadow lands are generally fine, but not excellent. There's inevitably times they enter tapped regardless.

I'm still pretty hesitant on Fields place here. We've got better zombie generators in the deck already, and Esper is probably the slowest 3 colours for ramp at all. To me, it's just too slow and too conditional. I've got a copy in my Nissa build at present, but I haven't seen it come up to try it out yet. I run Scapeshift and Collective Voyage there, so there's every chance I can make an enormous army quick. Here, I dunno, I just can't see it.

Happy to be proved wrong if someone else has experience with it though.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
OCPunisher
Posts: 225
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

I wanted to take a second to talk about the land base, as I think it's often the most over-looked or under-utilized part of many a commander deck.
- I would really try to flesh out some of the missing duals, especially the blue ones. Hallowed Fountain isn't getting any cheaper, Irrigated Farmland is dirt cheap, and Prairie Stream isn't far behind. I'd rather have any of the missing U/W duals than Port Town, and maybe even instead of Choked Estuary or Glacial Fortress.
- Fetches are obviously a different story, considering that even the Khans reprints are at least $20, but even one of them will make a huge difference in any three-color deck. Even if you had an Evolving Wilds or a Ghost Quarter, that would go a long way to smoothing things out. You could also try the much slower Bad River and Flood Plain.
- If your spells are too heavily slanted towards the color black, then maybe consider cutting Mystic Sanctuary. I know you mention not being able to recur instants/sorceries, but do you really have enough Islands to reliably trigger it on time? I counted 8, including duals, with zero fetches. That means you need almost half of them BEFORE the Sanctuary to make it work, and that seems pretty hard with no fetches.
- I've had nothing but good results with Field of the Dead in a lot of decks with any number of colors, and even with no colors. It's not something you can always turbo out, but it's good at any point in the game, and it offers a nice steady stream of extra bodies at very little to no cost.

Hope that helps!
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

I definitely agree. Land bases are often disregarded. It's often seen as one of the last parts of a deck to really be optimized, when often it ought to be the first. Sadly it often is the most pricey portion of a list though.

The two missing shocks are coming in, next LGS visit. They're easy adds, although your comment about fountain is surprising. It was half the price of shrine. The bicycles I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of. Unconditionally entering tapped is disappointing even if they cycle, particularly because I have to be pretty desperate to cycle. The tango lands are decent enough, I guess there's no reason not to pick up Prairie Stream. They're probably more reliable than check lands in a tricolor list.

As far as fetches and smoothing things out, yeah for sure. I'm not going to grab a true fetch any time soon though, and honestly the payoff for including cheap fetches doesn't seem worth it without a way to reuse them. I could get Crucible, I guess, but again we're into decent dollars there. I think that sort of assumes that the land base here doesn't work at all too, and it does. It's just, well, slow. As you'd expect for Esper without optimization. And that probably isn't going to change a ton adding cheap fetches either. Ultimately getting ahead for mana here my go to is rocks, value reanimation spells and, now, Bone Miser. Adding fetches just doesn't seem like it will add much to that without dropping a ton of cash for the great ones and ways to abuse them. I'm open to being convinced otherwise though.

Mystic Sanctuary is a slight reach, sure. There's enough redundancy in the list I ought not to need it every game though. I think there's a fair chance it could do decent things, although I have yet to try it out. At the least it's another argument for Prairie Stream, so I do at least want to give it a whirl before deciding it's a dead duck.

Field....like, it enters tapped unconditionally, only produces colorless and needs 7 other individual lands in play before it does anything. Bearing in mind that I have no way to put more than one land into play per turn, we're bare minimum turn 8 before it does anything at all, and those first 8 turns I definitely don't want to play a land entering tapped anyway. Then once it's in play it gives us a zombie per turn cycle, assuming I hit land drops every turn. And that's optimally. Anything less than this and I'm getting probably nothing out of it, or it's too little too late. The token enters untapped and that's cool and all, but the payoff in this context just doesn't seem worth it. In a deck with green where I can ham up the ramp big time it seems great. I just don't see the value in it here. With its banning it'll probably drop in price a tad, so the monetary risk is low I guess, I just question it's efficacy in the context of probably the three slowest land ramp colours in the game. There are probably some cute combat tricks for chump blockers with fetches and such, but they seem pretty corner case.

Appreciate the advice OC. I'm with you on the shocks, maaaybe the idea of fetches, but Field I'm really not convinced with. My guess is mostly doesn't do enough.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 2003
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 132
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

[mention]toctheyounger[/mention]
I am with you on Field of the Dead. I think the incidental advantage we get from it (maybe 1 zombie per turn) isn't the worst, but you hit the nail on the head with the disadvantages you face with it. It enters tapped and doesn't tap for any of our colors which means it potentially slows us down. And then it doesn't start generating value until at least turn 7 and that is only if we didn't play 2 basics with the same name.

A land that doesn't produce color has a relatively high bar to clear in a 3 color deck (especially one without green) and I don't think Field of the Dead quite clears that bar.

The shocks are a given and I do agree on the fetches but only so far as to push for the "real" fetches. We are trying to be a little more aggressive so lands entering tapped isn't where we want to be. I would argue that if you can't get the better fetches, just adding in rainbow lands would be a better solution to ensure you hit your colors.

Have you had a chance to try out Foulmire Knight and True Love's Kiss? The Knight seems underwhelming at first glance so I am wondering how well it has been working for you. And have you found the card draw to make up for only being able to exile 1 card with Kiss?

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

[mention]WizardMN[/mention]
It's been a little while since I've had the time to get any games in. I've managed with a couple of other decks - a Glissa build I'm fine tuning and my Nissa, because I really want to play test Field of the Dead.

My plan over the next few days is to take the Queen out for a spin and see how things play out. I'm not expecting stellar play with Foulmire being truthful. All it really NEEDS to do is be an early drop and/or an incidental draw as needed, which ought to be fine. Getting both out of the card isn't likely to be easy though.

Kids I think will do just fine. It's an easy swap if I desperately find that second exile is needed, but time will tell.

The biggest maybe is Sanctuary. OC is right, it is a reach. Having said that it really only needs to save my ass like one time out of ten when I desperately need an answer card, so ultimately I think it's the kind of land I can either hold back or toss for zombie fodder if needed. If it just really doesn't work I am definitely not fussed about removing it, it's not the end of the world.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Well, got a game in today. Mystic Sanctuary didn't come up, but Bone Miser did.

Holy %$#%, that thing is nuts. I had a fantastic starting hand with Gravecrawler, 3 lands, Talisman of Hierarchy, Zombie Infestation and Bone Miser, so I curved nicely into it. Dovescape got dropped early, so pretty much everything non creature was fodder for infestation, which kept me in mana, creatures and hand. Those two cards together is such an excellent scenario to be in, I honestly think if you run Miser you must run Infestation. It's that good.

Basically played against two control decks, one Shattergang Brothers and one Taigam, Ojutai Master. Dovescape kept the board counter free, and the brothers landed a [card]Seedborn Muse, Kher Keep and commander, and just continued to edict kobolds to keep board presence down - it's all he could do.

Once Miser hit, between Gravecrawler and Infestation I was able to keep tokens entering quicker than they could get sacrificed, went to combat with Varina's trigger to dig, discarded noncreature nonland spells to keep digging, and found some aristocrats to punish the edicts. At that point the jund player conceded, he could see it was done and dusted. Taigam had a bad turn at one point having to attack into my zombies to get the attack trigger, which didnt end well as I had Death Baron out. His last turn he casts Expropriate, forgetting that he didn't have his commander out, and Dovescape countered it. At that point he folded as he just didn't have enough to push me over.

So, three points:
  • I've now had 2 games where Expropriate drops and I've won regardless.
  • Bone Miser is straight up must run in the deck. It's crazily good and worth every cent, every mana.
  • Fun game, and good to play zombies again.
I'll definitely try to get some more play in to report on recent adds - I did see True Love's Kiss but I dropped it to Miser as it was never going to resolve anyway :P
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
katsuma
Posts: 12
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by katsuma » 4 years ago

Sounds fun! Bone Miser is so good! It's become kill-on-sight in my meta with this deck, just so much value. It's nice that the lands you discard can pay for Varina's activated ability, so they're not even wasted. I also just spent some time on the mana base with the shock lands, and it really helps smooth everything out.

I had A LOT of fun with Bolas's Citadel over the weekend in this deck, won me two games that I would have lost otherwise. The "Tap, sacrifice 10 non-land permanents" ability actually came in handy when there are so many zombie tokens being created, especially if there's a zombie aristocrat out. I get that it's not the most competitive card at 6 CMC, but it is a BLAST to play with.

Thoughts on Drown in the Loch? I'm also curious about Mystical Sanctuary, probably is too greedy at the end of the day.

DECKLIST: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-08-19-OsB-varina/

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Yeah, citadel is excellent. I don't run it here purely because I've had issues with life as a resource before, in early stages of building. I think it'd be ok now, but i don't NEED it here, so.

Drown in the Loch seems really conditional. It'd probably work well in a mill build, but otherwise I think it'll sit in your hand more often than not. If it relied on cards in OUR graveyard it'd be a lock, but otherwise it'll more often than not just not do anything in my estimation. The card from Eldraine I'm interested to try here is Dance of the Manse. A lot of my rocks and enchantments are either temporary, kill on sight or just get discarded here and there. With this I can get several back at once. I'm not likely to animate them as none are six or greater anyway, and it seems like it would scale well to early or mid game too. It could be decent. It's totally possible that for the same cost as Beacon of Unrest or similar you get yourself back a ton of value from the yard.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Got a quick game in today for some further testing.

Honestly, it was a bit tough how dominant the deck was. I kind of just slammed the table. Granted, I landed Varina T2 off of a T1 Island into Sol Ring into Orzhov Signet. Ultimately I just had better momentum than the rest of the table and bled them out with reanimation. At one point I had Mikaeus, the Unhallowed out with 10+ zombies as well as Vengeful Dead, Carrion Feeder and Corpse Knight. Yikes. I ended up just letting them get bounced to give the rest of the table a chance.

At any rate, some thoughts:
  • There's no way Mystic Sanctuary is going to work. At the end of the game I had 2 islands in play, so the chances of it saving my ass are very, very slim. That's with playtesting the shocks and extra tango land too.
  • While Relentless Dead is a mana hungry beast, when it works it's pretty clever. I chained together casting Relentless and Carrion Feeder, sacrificing the former to the latter, paying to reanimate Sidisi, Undead Vizier, exploiting Feeder and tutoring for Zombie Apocalypse. That's a lot of mana down, but it worked nicely.
  • With Carrion Feeder in the list, I really don't see any further need for an altar, be it Dementia, Ashnod's or Phyrexian. For cuteness I may well think about dropping Grimgrin, Corpse-Born at some point, but Feeder is just right. Cheap to cast, free to activate, on tribe.
  • Liliana, Untouched by Death was great value as a T3 drop. She filled my yard, changed life totals, and let me spam some tokens with her ultimate, when I cast Diregraf Colossus into Cryptbreaker, Apprentice Necromancer and Carrion Feeder early.
  • I'm thinking more and more about Dance of the Manse. Lili dropped Zombie Infestation into my yard as well as a couple of other key pieces, so it'd be cool to be able to grab those back where I can. I also have a copy of Reconnaissance I'm going to think about adding as an addition to the combat trick suite, so the more value I can squeeze out of Manse, the better. I think it'll be good value.
  • I'm also thinking about Mirrorweave here. The amount of ways it could do really crazy things at instant speed is pretty stupendous. I think of my tokens and what they could be, and start thinking of a board full of lords and aristocrats. Or Archfiend of Ifnirs. Or Diregraf Colossuses. Or Bone Misers! The amount of ways it could win from nowhere is worthy of discussion.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
katsuma
Posts: 12
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by katsuma » 4 years ago

Very interested in Mirrorweave in this deck! I'm going to try it out in my build. If nothing else it could be hilarious -- God-Eternal Oketra + that + Zombie spell would be so funny.

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

katsuma wrote:
4 years ago
Very interested in Mirrorweave in this deck! I'm going to try it out in my build. If nothing else it could be hilarious -- God-Eternal Oketra + that + Zombie spell would be so funny.
nonlegendary - unfortunate, but it'll only copy vanilla stuff. There's still a ton of tricks it could do here though, so I'm keen to give it a go too!
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
katsuma
Posts: 12
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by katsuma » 4 years ago

Crap! Good point. Still seems fun (could even be used defensively/as a blow out for another player).

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 4011
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

katsuma wrote:
4 years ago
Crap! Good point. Still seems fun (could even be used defensively/as a blow out for another player).
Totally! A nice easy win I can think of is Mirrorweaveing any of our aristocrats and just saccing everything to Carrion Feeder. You'd probably want to steer away from copying Vengeful Dead, unless you're suicidal, purely because it considers zombies everywhere. But copying a lord, Bone Miser, Diregraf Colossus, Archfiend of Ifnir, Binding Mummy, Apprentice Necromancer, so on and so forth. Any/all of those could do cool things.

The other thing I can see it helping with is turning opposing threats into chumps. Like, say Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (as well as everything else on the field) turns into a Foulmire Knight for the turn. Easy way to get rid of a serious threat. Unfortunately it won't help with ETB's like Craterhoof Behemoth, but we've got other things for that.

And yeah, it could totally help someone else blow out a major threat. Turn your opponent's army goblins into Death Barons for an alpha strike against a common threat? I'd be happy to help :)
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
katsuma
Posts: 12
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by katsuma » 4 years ago

Looking forward to hearing how it goes -- probably not playing until Wednesday here but hopefully will draw mirrorweave and see if it's worth a spot.

Also, I'm adding in Lim-Dul's Vault for Mausoleum Secrets and then Treasure Cruise for Mystic Remora -- the delve is just so easy in this deck and the remora sometimes doesn't get enough value quickly enough for me. Also with the Vault, it's like a tutor but we're usually drawing 5+ cards during the attack phase so it can be even better.

Also, trying to decide between Phyrexian Delver and Havengul Lich -- going with the Delver now to see how it is.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Decklists”