Let's Brew Thalia and The Gitrog Monster: Man I Love Frogs

[Candlemane]

I always liked Corpse Knight to eek out some life gain if you can loop enough stuff. If there are going to be a lot of tokens, this can help get past a lot of defenses.

[pokken]

I think I am going to run a few ramp swords. Sword of Feast and Famine Sword of Forge and Frontier Sword of Hearth and Home maybe. Not sure which ones.

[duducrash]

I really like the top deck cards, specially with this many fetches. It gives you insight in your rerolls, by shuffling, and with several extra landrops and this high density of lands I think it would draw more cards on avg than any other draw spell

[pokken]

I'm thinking of doing an enchantress lands build and killing with living plane or natures revolt as well. Seems like we could make filling the yard synergize with both lands and enchantments. The whole replenish doomwake living plane etc.

The enchantment ramp into exploration commander seems reasonable. Plus sun titan is an honorary crucible.

Gonna see what I can come up with there.

There's a ton of enchantments with landfall tokens too

[EonAon]

Exsanguinate since this is a land deck could help be a finisher depending and/or stave off death. As well if you put in Nirkana Revenant / Bubbling Muck, or Cabal Coffers to go along with the urborg is it seems feasible for extra mana production. dunno if thats a viable idea.

Now I know that the next card I suggest is going to get a bit ragged on since the card is an offshoot from a card that is technically much better but bear with me, Arguel's Blood Fast // Temple of Aclazotz. Now overall I personally say Greed is a great card and its very efficient, Issues for me is that in commander when you need cards you need them NOW. While the cost of the draw on Arguels isn't great its perfect for early game draw and mid game draw if your hand is not that great as long as you have at least a few mana open, and a deck like this is probably going to have a few open mana sources . I never really think of the flipside of this card since thats the side I really dont need nor ever expect to get to.

The next draw is Blood Pact which is in the same vein of sign in blood, nights whisper, and read the runes. Bonus side to pact is that its at instant speed which is nearly unheard of in black. This of course allows you to draw at the end of turn and or when the blue mage is tapped out on their turn.

[pokken]

If you want an x spell finisher it's torment or finale before exsanguinate. I also suspect debt to the deathless is worth thinking on before exsang.

[EonAon]

If you want an x spell finisher it's torment or finale before exsanguinate. I also suspect debt to the deathless is worth thinking on before exsang.

Ehh I dont like the initial 4cc of debt even though it does alot of work by doubling, but some combo of them would be beneficial.

[darrenhabib]

As somebody who has played the Korvold, Fae-Cursed King, I know how important it is to have something to sacrifice that just doesn't present parity.
Bitterblossom, Skrelv's Hive.

Khalni Garden. If you have to sac a land in a pinch Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai at least gives another sac source.

[Gorillajay]

Felidar Retreat Seems like it could be bonkers here, and aligns well with the go wide strategy.

[TheTuna]

Very cool to see the brewing with this! As a huge fan of Thalia, I'm pretty excited given that her prior cards aren't super compelling as a commander. If it's a question of mana sinks, what about Luminarch Ascension? Thalia/Gitrog being a first strike deathtouch might make it significantly easier to get Luminarch online since people are really not going to want to swing into her with anything remotely valuable.

[pokken]

If you want an x spell finisher it's torment or finale before exsanguinate. I also suspect debt to the deathless is worth thinking on before exsang.

Ehh I dont like the initial 4cc of debt even though it does alot of work by doubling, but some combo of them would be beneficial.

Do you find yourself commonly exsanguinating for 4?

Felidar Retreat Seems like it could be bonkers here, and aligns well with the go wide strategy.

Very cool to see the brewing with this! As a huge fan of Thalia, I'm pretty excited given that her prior cards aren't super compelling as a commander. If it's a question of mana sinks, what about Luminarch Ascension? Thalia/Gitrog being a first strike deathtouch might make it significantly easier to get Luminarch online since people are really not going to want to swing into her with anything remotely valuable.

I think these should both be great in an enchantment heavy build. Which, interestingly, enchantment build solves a lot fo the CA issues *and* commander synergizes well with neat ench stuff like Kaya's Ghostform and Angelic Renewal

[TheGildedGoose]

I think I'm coming around to cutting the cheap card draw spells. Yeah, they're okay in the early game, but we would rather be developing our mana than sculpting our hand in the early game. We need bigger stuff to reload in the mid and late game.

[pokken]

I think I'm coming around to cutting the cheap card draw spells. Yeah, they're okay in the early game, but we would rather be developing our mana than sculpting our hand in the early game. We need bigger stuff to reload in the mid and late game.

I *think* that's right yeah. The cycling lands and loams should keep us fine with things to spend our mana on?

I can't think of what bomb card draw spells I want in a midrange build, like Ohran Frostfang or Cultivator Colossus are the big two on my list, but I think we need more. Maybe even Genesis Wave would be good.

I was thinking also that some light staxy card draw like Esper Sentinel might be worth playing---it synergizes with our commander slowing people down on nonbasics a bit.

[Gorillajay]

I think these should both be great in an enchantment heavy build. Which, interestingly, enchantment build solves a lot fo the CA issues *and* commander synergizes well with neat ench stuff like Kaya's Ghostform and Angelic Renewal

I think Felidar Retreat is great even outside of an enchantment build. The list @TheGildedGoose put together seems to consistently want to win by tutoring out Field of the Dead and Scute Swarm. Then pumping with Hoof or Finale. A few landdrops are going to buff your zombies or scutes very quick, or create a small army by itself fast (in the absence of either of those).

I can't think of what bomb card draw spells I want in a midrange build, like Ohran Frostfang or Cultivator Colossus are the big two on my list, but I think we need more. Maybe even Genesis Wave would be good.

If the above is our primary plan then it could potentially let us look at cards that draw based off number of creatures we have in place since we're looking to constantly pump out tokens, Collective Unconscious, Shamanic Revelation. Only problem with these is sometimes they feel a bit win-more, but could really refill our hand once we really start dropping lands.

Other options could be Stinging Study, Skeletal Scrying, Necropotence, Damnable Pact If we can handle the lifeloss.

[pokken]

oh. Plumb the Forbidden probably good for go wide.

[TheGildedGoose]

As somebody who has played the Korvold, Fae-Cursed King, I know how important it is to have something to sacrifice that just doesn't present parity.
Bitterblossom, Skrelv's Hive.

Khalni Garden. If you have to sac a land in a pinch Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai at least gives another sac source.

Bitterblossom compares rather unfavorably with the Landfall token producers as far as sac fodder goes. I also think relying on Frog Lady as a card draw engine isn't a great plan. It's sort of consistent, but the tension between attacking and saccing to draw a single card rather than keeping shields up is real, and I would rather use chonkier draw spells. Gods' Eye however is a solid inclusion. We can probably afford to run another colorless utility land.

I *think* that's right yeah. The cycling lands and loams should keep us fine with things to spend our mana on?

I can't think of what bomb card draw spells I want in a midrange build, like Ohran Frostfang or Cultivator Colossus are the big two on my list, but I think we need more. Maybe even Genesis Wave would be good.

I was thinking also that some light staxy card draw like Esper Sentinel might be worth playing---it synergizes with our commander slowing people down on nonbasics a bit.

I'm pretty lukewarm on conditional cards, especially conditional card draw. Yeah, the Colossus is a big bomb, but I would rather have something like Moonlight Bargain, as mediocre as that card appears at first glance. Digging five cards is fantastic, and as our graveyard is a second hand, it often won't cost us too much life to get what we really need.

I think Felidar Retreat is great even outside of an enchantment build. The list @TheGildedGoose put together seems to consistently want to win by tutoring out Field of the Dead and Scute Swarm. Then pumping with Hoof or Finale. A few landdrops are going to buff your zombies or scutes very quick, or create a small army by itself fast (in the absence of either of those).

Yarp. Looks like I'm going to be running Hoof. I don't like it, but alas, it's the best-in-class Overrun on the market. Maybe Triumph of the Hordes instead, but Hoof kills everyone, not just one player.

If the above is our primary plan then it could potentially let us look at cards that draw based off number of creatures we have in place since we're looking to constantly pump out tokens, Collective Unconscious, Shamanic Revelation. Only problem with these is sometimes they feel a bit win-more, but could really refill our hand once we really start dropping lands.

Other options could be Stinging Study, Skeletal Scrying, Necropotence, Damnable Pact If we can handle the lifeloss.

I feel similarly about Collective Unconscious type cards. They catapult you far ahead, but don't do much when you're behind and most likely in need of the help.

Study isn't great since it only draws four, but I'm a huge fan of Scrying from my days playing with Exalted Angel forever ago. Necro is, of course, stupid, but I'm not sure it's what we want to be doing. The deck is pretty slow and grindy until it explodes, so Necro is probably too aggressive. Instant speed is preferred.

[pokken]

Yarp. Looks like I'm going to be running Hoof. I don't like it, but alas, it's the best-in-class Overrun on the market. Maybe Triumph of the Hordes instead, but Hoof kills everyone, not just one player.

I'd run Akroma's Will and Finale of Devastation and call it a day. we can probably close games pretty hard with just going ham with Field of the Dead / Felidar Retreat type %$#% though.

Hoof is fine, just super mana inefficient so not my fave

[TheGildedGoose]

Oh, Akroma's Will is actually pretty cool. Protection and a win condition in a single card is my kind of spice. Pair it with Contested War Zone and baby, you've got a stew going.

I'm still not a big fan of the Landfall enchantments that make creatures. Yeah, they have the potential to make a threatening board state and are pretty resilient, but I feel like they're just not as good as the other options and take up precious deckslots.

[pokken]

I'm still not a big fan of the Landfall enchantments that make creatures. Yeah, they have the potential to make a threatening board state and are pretty resilient, but I feel like they're just not as good as the other options and take up precious deckslots.

The thing I like about them is that they don't die to Vanquish the Horde / Toxic Deluge type stuff. everyone is jamming efficiency so much. I do not remember the last time I saw someone other than me pop a Hour of Revelation.

For the non-enchantment build I think it might be better to just run more ways to find/protect Field of the Dead and maybe a backup or two (e.g. Scute Mob).

But Felidar Retreat is kinda nice in that it can turn an army of 2/2s into lethal really fast, basically doing a Craterhoof Behemoth impression. If you have 10 dudes, 3 fetchlands is +60 power Oh and they vigilant so you aren't shields down.

[TheGildedGoose]

Okay, I'm sold on Felidar Retreat. I may have glossed over the second choice, but pulling double duty is pretty good.

[pokken]

The built in commander sac outlet makes me really want to run Living Plane and a couple other bomb enchantments for Academy Rector. Having a sac outlet on your commander is just so cool.

[duducrash]

Yes, Plumb the Forbidden is always great in my experience .

if you constantly sac, Idk why not run stuff like Archon of Emeria

[Gorillajay]

There another iteration of this one yet? Been brewing a bit myself but excited to see what others are leaning towards.

Can't wait for this commander to release.

[Ertai Planeswalker]

Given the value trigger is an attack trigger and this makes a great blocker... how do we get it vigilant? EDIT: Other than with Felidar Retreat

Also, since this is a lands deck you're going to have some land tutoring. I think this could be a better commander to turn this deck (Link to article) into a better version with more oomph and less cute. Especially the Karma with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Unstable Frontier combo.

[TheGildedGoose]

Well, here's 2.0:

Froggie Went a Courtin'

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander:

1 Thalia and The Gitrog Monster

Land: 45

1 Agadeem, the Undercrypt

1 Arid Mesa

1 Barren Moor

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Bonders' Enclave

1 Boseiju, Who Endures

1 Command Tower

1 Contested War Zone

1 Demolition Field

1 Drownyard Temple

1 Dryad Arbor

1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire

1 Field of the Dead

1 Flagstones of Trokair

1 Flooded Strand

5 Forest

1 Godless Shrine

1 Horizon Canopy

1 Indatha Triome

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Murmuring Bosk

1 Nurturing Peatland

1 Overgrown Tomb

1 Plains

1 Polluted Delta

1 Prismatic Vista

1 Secluded Steppe

1 Silent Clearing

1 Swamp

1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire

1 Temple Garden

1 Thespian's Stage

1 Tranquil Thicket

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Volrath's Stronghold

1 Windswept Heath

1 Wooded Foothills

1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

Ramp: 9

1 Farseek

1 Nature's Lore

1 Rampant Growth

1 Sakura-Tribe Elder

1 Sol Ring

1 Three Visits

1 Tireless Provisioner

1 Utopia Sprawl

1 Wild Growth

Land Drop: 4

1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking

1 Exploration

1 Oracle of Mul Daya

1 The Gitrog Monster

Recursion: 7

1 Conduit of Worlds

1 Crucible of Worlds

1 Life from the Loam

1 Ramunap Excavator

1 Seasons Past

1 Splendid Reclamation

1 World Shaper

Spot Removal: 6

1 Anguished Unmaking

1 Assassin's Trophy

1 Beast Within

1 Generous Gift

1 Path to Exile

1 Swords to Plowshares

Board Wipe: 5

1 Damn

1 Farewell

1 Hour of Revelation

1 Toxic Deluge

1 Tragic Arrogance

Draw: 7

1 Hostile Negotiations

1 Moonlight Bargain

1 Painful Truths

1 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Skeletal Scrying

1 Sylvan Library

1 Tireless Tracker

Tutor: 8

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Finale of Devastation

1 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Imperial Seal

1 Knight of the Reliquary

1 Realms Uncharted

1 Sylvan Scrying

1 Vampiric Tutor

Sustain: 3

1 Maze of Ith

1 Overgrown Estate

1 Teferi's Protection

Win Condition: 5

1 Avenger of Zendikar

1 Craterhoof Behemoth

1 Felidar Retreat

1 Scute Swarm

1 Worm Harvest

Approximate Total Cost:

Land

I dropped the land count to 45. The math works out to an expected value of exactly 5 lands drawn by turn 4. Assuming we ramp into TATGM on turn 3 and drop an extra land that turn, we thus have a very high chance to hit our next land drop and a decent chance of hitting an extra drop. Between the draw and Crucible/fetchlands I think we're not going to miss very many land drops, even with extra plays per turn. Other than that, Agadeem, the Undercrypt: it's free real estate. Castle Locthwain is emergency card advantage. Contested War Zone offers us a bizarre land-based pump spell that quickly adds up with a wide board.

Ramp

Tireless Provisioner is on my chopping block. I suspect we really don't have much use for that much mana.

Land Drop

Oracle of Mul Daya is a good Magic card.

Recursion

Ancient Greenwarden is too expensive to recur lands and winmore when doubling Landfall effects. I want to find room for Bala Ged Recovery as an emergency land drop that can also grab back a key card in a pinch.

Tutor

Grim Tutor is out, Sylvan Scrying is in. Also, Green Sun's Zenith is an obvious inclusion, ramping us, getting Magus of the Crucible, or Avenger of Zendikar for the win. A marginally worse Finale of Devastation.

Sustain

I've always wanted to play Overgrown Estate. The time is now!

Win Condition

I give up. Craterhoof Behemoth is in, as is Felidar Retreat. We're doubling down on going wide, folks.