Spent all that time trying to start a discussion about the zombie attraction angle - not a single person wants to try this?
Hate for attractions? The value proposition is pretty strong for a 1 drop zombie on a low curve Varina deck.
@pokken I am shocked you are not trying this card
If anyone IS going to try it - what does your attraction deck look like?
Really torn on including Haunted House, the rest are pretty easy to pick I think...
Zombies ate my brains. My Varina Decklist Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
Shambling Ghast can kill a dork or make a treasure for some value?
Or Nested Shambler to make another body to sac? It's not making a zombie though… but have lords in play = more bodies?
In my case I have a good amount of 3-drop creatures.
Archghoul of Thraben - Card filtration
Death Baron - Lord & Evasion
Diregraf Captain - Lord and potential wincon
Diregraf Colossus - Beater & token maker
Fell Stinger - Card draw
Headless Rider - Token maker
Lich Lord of Unx - Token maker & drain/mill effect
Lord of the Undead - Lord & recursion (When will the tribal supertype happen to Zombies?)
Master of Death - Insane value whether you play it or discard it
Phyrexian Ghoul - Sac outlet
Plague Belcher - Potential Wincon
Zombie Master - Evasion & Regenerate is nice
Love Varinna's versatily. My first version with her was more spell and token generation based. I probably should try making it again because it was neat.
Man if there were critical mass of Raise the Alarm type effects in zombies, that'd be really farking fun
Shambling Ghast can kill a dork or make a treasure for some value?
Or Nested Shambler to make another body to sac? It's not making a zombie though… but have lords in play = more bodies?
I have 13 3-drops.. all of them work well. Oh my.
Shambling Ghast goes infinite with our liliana and a sac outlet which is pretty legit (need a creature death payoff too, or a sac outlet that makes mana).
So it seems like the average number of 3 drops is about 10.
How many creatures do you have?
Is there some recommended numbers?
My list is currently on 38 creatures, but it's not straightforward.
1 drops = 10
2 drops = 11
3 drops = 11 (4 are not cast)
4 drops = 5 (1 is not cast)
5 drops = 1
Averagr deck Mana Value is 2.47
Out of those several are never meant to be cast or can be cast from the GY. I have been working on a new list that goes even deeper into the low curve and recursive creatures:
I run Entomb, Buried Alive, and Intuition to facilitate all this recursion usually going for the least mana intensive options.
I was already on Haakon before Poxwalkers was printed, and added a few more castable targets from the GY to support it. Considering adding Snapcaster Mage back in to help.
Having so many creatures that want to be in the GY paired with a very low curve I can run through the deck super fast and generate a lot of "virtual card advantage" by maximizing Varina's looting effect.
Zombies ate my brains. My Varina Decklist Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
Just had a game where I swung with the team, pitched the 3 of them to Varina triggers, and then after combat cast Rot Hulk to reanimate them. Sacrificed Sidisi to itself, which made a token copy AND brought back the original with Undying. They sacrificed themselves to themselves again, which brought in one more token copy, making a total of 4 tutors. On my next turn, I swung and pitched Overcharged Amalgam, and Apprentice Necromancer, among other cards, and played a Carrion Feeder. In order for anyone to really impact my board, they had to remove Ratadrabik (that's hard to say!) twice (thanks Mikaeus!), and then still had to deal with Mikaeus to get anything else off the board, but ALSO had to get through 2 counter spells, thanks to Rot Hulk and Overcharged Amalgam.
This was definitely a case of some stars aligning, but it made for a brutally oppressive board state. Thankfully for everyone, I drew into and discarded Gary, so when they made the attempts at removing my stuff, he was one of the 3 cards I reanimated with Hulk, with 15 devotion, and the ability to recur once with undying.
I'll note that, aside from the layers of protection for my board, just the vigilance was useful alongside Cryptbreaker, as that allowed me to attack and still tap for draws.
Thanks for bringing this card to my attention - I have a bias to ignore zombies that cost more than 3 mana quite a bit lol
I have been thinking about Ratadrabik of Urborg and noticed some really powerful synergies for this card even with a lower curve deck that doesnt have a lot of legendary zombies.
This card is a solid backup/protection for Varina (or any other legendary zombie which is not super relevant for me). It is hard to nuke on its own with Ward 2, and makes attacking with all your zombies to trigger Varina even better with vigilance. Dual purpose.
When I play my version of the deck, my playgroup knows to kill Varina whenever possible, so this is a tempting addition.
Does anyone else think this is a valuable inclusion for this reason?
Zombies ate my brains. My Varina Decklist Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
Gut instinct is It costs too much. A counterspell gonna outperform rat most of the time.
That said it is a juicy juicy mass reanimating thing. Hrm. Thinking about how it enables phyrexian altar shenanigans does make me think twice.
what zombies would you ideally pair it with for altar shenanigans?
A counterspell definitely outperforms its protection factor every time, but if it can be leveraged in multiple ways maybe it earns a slot. I dunno. I was actually considering adding overcharged amalgam to my list as well - has anyone been playing with this card that runs a low-curve build? Whats the verdict? I wouldnt add both of these cards, might not add either, but considering each.
Zombies ate my brains. My Varina Decklist Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
I have amalgam and it's decent but man 4 mana is a lot.
Rat is the "now altar makes infinite bodies and mana" with grave crawler or Haakon plus 1 drop. So that's kinda cool.
At least assuming I can read.
It also creates some situations where you can just drain people out by doubling up on a drain creature then sacking everything, even without being infinite
spoler: I can't read.
Last edited by pokken1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.
Honestly I think Rata is very good. But I think, at least for my build, she's going to be better at the helm of her own deck. I don't have the depth of legendary creatures for her to really make an impact.
That said I've got a friend who has reports of countless Elesh Norn's in a Rata build. Building around her seems really crazy. I thought her token ability exiled, which it doesn't. Its kinda nuts.
As an aside and for reference for @devilcatz I checked my build (I swear I'm going to update the list soon):and I've got 6 zombies at 3:
Diregraf Colossus
Headless Rider
Lord of the Undead
Midnight Reaper
Plague Belcher
Zombie Master
And honestly, most of these aren't critical. The reaper and Belcher are the must haves, everything else is optional. Although as I mentioned earlier Headless Rider has been really good for me.
I just removed the rider for a "lifetime" pass holder, but on second thought I think it might be better than the colossus. I see you run both so very interested in your experiences and comparisons between the two, Thanks!
Cast vs Death Trigger
Large body vs untapped zombies
Zombies ate my brains. My Varina Decklist Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
I just removed the rider for a "lifetime" pass holder, but on second thought I think it might be better than the colossus. I see you run both so very interested in your experiences and comparisons between the two, Thanks!
Cast vs Death Trigger
Large body vs untapped zombies
Honestly rider has been a lot better for me. With an altar in play or Plumb in hand its free death for all, no downside. Colossus isn't bad, but to me its definitely not as good. I think if you're into combat more and less on sac loops you could value them differently, but rider for me is where its at. I'm not looking specifically to cut either, but if I were Colossus would be on the block.
I should also clarify I won't be considering un cards at all. Thats on me and no one else, I just can't mix fruit loops and oatmeal, its too much to parse in an already complex game and I don't like muddy waters (metaphorically, the bluesman I actually do like).
I just removed the rider for a "lifetime" pass holder, but on second thought I think it might be better than the colossus. I see you run both so very interested in your experiences and comparisons between the two, Thanks!
Cast vs Death Trigger
Large body vs untapped zombies
Honestly rider has been a lot better for me. With an altar in play or Plumb in hand its free death for all, no downside. Colossus isn't bad, but to me its definitely not as good. I think if you're into combat more and less on sac loops you could value them differently, but rider for me is where its at. I'm not looking specifically to cut either, but if I were Colossus would be on the block.
I should also clarify I won't be considering un cards at all. Thats on me and no one else, I just can't mix fruit loops and oatmeal, its too much to parse in an already complex game and I don't like muddy waters (metaphorically, the bluesman I actually do like).
I probably should keep both. My main line of play is to overwhelm the board with zombies as quickly as possible and then reanimate everything for the finale. To optimize my build I really need to focus on casting zombies on curve and having incremental payoffs that accelerate that plan puts a ton of pressure and scrutiny on my list of creatures and the cuts are so hard - including haakon and all of the auto-reanimators I do puts a lot of deck building pressure on the list. Hmmm...
I can respect when someone doesn't want to play with an "un" mechanic - I feel the same way about universes beyond (which is ironic because of the space theme of the set lol). My pet favorites I have always wanted to play in my zombie decks are summon the pack and over my dead bodies and these feel very "un" and require many hoops to jump through. I am surprised that nobody else seems to want to try attractions though, because they seem pretty innocuous and like normal magic cards to me - roll a die for possible effects on artifacts. You only roll the die once so it doesn't slow down the game any more than most artifact or enchantment triggers do (probably less, even).
I visualize Woody Harrelson Locked in the game booth at "Pacific Playland" facing a relentless onslaught of the undead at the end of the first Zombieland movie. It's actually pretty on the nose lol. To each their own!
Zombies ate my brains. My Varina Decklist Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
I probably should keep both. My main line of play is to overwhelm the board with zombies as quickly as possible and then reanimate everything for the finale. To optimize my build I really need to focus on casting zombies on curve and having incremental payoffs that accelerate that plan puts a ton of pressure and scrutiny on my list of creatures and the cuts are so hard - including haakon and all of the auto-reanimators I do puts a lot of deck building pressure on the list. Hmmm...
I can respect when someone doesn't want to play with an "un" mechanic - I feel the same way about universes beyond (which is ironic because of the space theme of the set lol). My pet favorites I have always wanted to play in my zombie decks are summon the pack and over my dead bodies and these feel very "un" and require many hoops to jump through. I am surprised that nobody else seems to want to try attractions though, because they seem pretty innocuous and like normal magic cards to me - roll a die for possible effects on artifacts. You only roll the die once so it doesn't slow down the game any more than most artifact or enchantment triggers do (probably less, even).
I visualize Woody Harrelson Locked in the game booth at "Pacific Playland" facing a relentless onslaught of the undead at the end of the first Zombieland movie. It's actually pretty on the nose lol. To each their own!
Oh I totally get that vibe, for me it's not that it doesn't fit from a vorthos perspective; full canon has its fair share of amusement park style things. Look at Rakdos. Or, even to stretch it a little, Wheel of Fortune. It's more that I don't want to include cards that are printed with frivolity and silliness in mind first and foremost; to me, including them seems to miss the point both ways, but I don't really know if it's in me to explain or defend that position. It's also just a neurotic thing, I've never liked Un cards and nothing has changed in that respect for me. I was really disappointed they decided to blur the lines personally.
And yeah, if you've got the space you totally should run both. I've found Rider easier to abuse, but Colossus certainly can do some good stuff too.
I've found both Epiphany and Fact a little slower than I'd like of late. They'll dig you out when you're struggling for options on board or in yard, but they're both quite costly on the spot. I've been looking for stuff that could rival Ponder for efficiency of draw and cost, and there's not much. I tossed up trying Breakthrough recently; I won't defend it as a good card, it is bad unless its a contextual inclusion, but with an empty hand it's draw 4 with no downside for u. The better off you are the worse it gets though, so...y'know. I'm very much interested in hearing suggestions for a switch out though, Fact and Epiphany have been fairly good, but something leaner and meaner would be really nice. I wonder if Predict or Portent are good enough....probably not.
For what its worth, my opinion is that the best draw we have is Skullclamp, followed closely by Plumb the Forbidden. Nothing else is really that close to it for me. I leave Ad Naus out here because not everyone is on the low low curve plan.
I haven't looked at basically anything from the latest Un set, which is disappointing, since I really enjoyed the releases of the last 3. Part of it has been too many product releases. I'm kind of burnt out. 1/month is ridiculous.
I also really dislike the move to make cards in an Un set playable in normal Magic. I get why they did it, but I find it very obnoxious.
If you're looking for low curve draw/filtering Tithe will outperform almost anything if you're not running it. HP versions can be had under $20 now again which is nice. It smoothes early game sequencing, it lets you go up a card for Varina, etc. Tithe has some downsides of needing to fetch a plains early but getting your other two colors on one card usually makes it worth it.
I do really like Portent in Varina, I haven't added it because I'm at a comfortable number of t1 plays/fixing with tithe/ponder/brainstorm/top/zomboes - but knowing your top 3 can be really good with Varina, and getting another try at it is extra awesome.
I have amalgam and it's decent but man 4 mana is a lot.
Rat is the "now altar makes infinite bodies and mana" with grave crawler or Haakon plus 1 drop. So that's kinda cool.
At least assuming I can read.
It also creates some situations where you can just drain people out by doubling up on a drain creature then sacking everything, even without being infinite
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't have any legendary creature with drain effect ? At best we can sacrifice Varina before swinging and recast her for 6 mana. So we will have a doubled Varina effect for the next attack. Or as you said, create infinites bodies with Haakon, Crawler and another body than we can recur with Haakon (If I read correctly too^^).
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't have any legendary creature with drain effect ? At best we can sacrifice Varina before swinging and recast her for 6 mana. So we will have a doubled Varina effect for the next attack. Or as you said, create infinites bodies with Haakon, Crawler and another body than we can recur with Haakon (If I read correctly too^^).
Yeh I think I was reading comp failing. I don't think it does any of this lol. My brain was really wanting to be charitable and just skipped over some aspects of the card. I don't think it even makes infinite bodies without a legendary 1 drop knight.
Headless Rider was the guy I was thinking of that enables half that stuff. Ratadrabik of Urborg needs legendary stuff. Somehow my brain just...wow. Getting dumb. I thought it copied all zombies I guess. Which is obviously way too good.
