Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[yeti1069]

Almost killed myself with draw in a game just now!

Had Undead Augur out, and needed some cards, so I played Tombstone Stairwell with 1 zombie in the yard (1 opponent had 0, and the other also had 1). Also had Champion of the Perished out. First turn cycle was good, drew 3 extra cards and lost 3 life, then another chunk to Graveborn Muse. Kept the Stairwell since I had plenty of mana with Nykthos. Swung with Varina to draw some cards and gain some life, and pitched a few zombies to the yard, not thinking about the turn cycle. Each upkeep I was making 4 zombies, and losing 4/drawing 4 each end step. The 8 before my turn had me in the low 20s, and I had another chunk coming from the Muse, so I opted not to keep Stairwell the second time around. As it was, I ended up in the teens.

Swung, pitched Wonder, Rot Hulk, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel (had Necromancer's Apprentice in play from the previous turn), and connected with a 19/19 Champion. Drew into Necroduality and Empty the Laboratory. Cast both after combat, sacrificing 6 zombies (and doming myself for another draw 6/lose 6). Turned up Wayward Servant and Noxious Ghoul...and did the math ALL WRONG for Necroduality. 6 zombies, doubled, should have been 20 life and -24/-24 to all non-zombies. As it turned out, it didn't matter, because I then sacrificed the Apprentice to get Rot Hulk back, which reanimated 4 zombies, including Gary, doubled, to drawn the table for over 40 between 2x Gary and 2x Wayward. All told, I ended with about 20 cards left in the library and drained for over 60 life.

[pokken]

Almost killed myself with draw in a game just now!

Had Undead Augur out, and needed some cards, so I played Tombstone Stairwell with 1 zombie in the yard (1 opponent had 0, and the other also had 1). Also had Champion of the Perished out. First turn cycle was good, drew 3 extra cards and lost 3 life, then another chunk to Graveborn Muse. Kept the Stairwell since I had plenty of mana with Nykthos. Swung with Varina to draw some cards and gain some life, and pitched a few zombies to the yard, not thinking about the turn cycle. Each upkeep I was making 4 zombies, and losing 4/drawing 4 each end step. The 8 before my turn had me in the low 20s, and I had another chunk coming from the Muse, so I opted not to keep Stairwell the second time around. As it was, I ended up in the teens.

Swung, pitched Wonder, Rot Hulk, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel (had Necromancer's Apprentice in play from the previous turn), and connected with a 19/19 Champion. Drew into Necroduality and Empty the Laboratory. Cast both after combat, sacrificing 6 zombies (and doming myself for another draw 6/lose 6). Turned up Wayward Servant and Noxious Ghoul...and did the math ALL WRONG for Necroduality. 6 zombies, doubled, should have been 20 life and -24/-24 to all non-zombies. As it turned out, it didn't matter, because I then sacrificed the Apprentice to get Rot Hulk back, which reanimated 4 zombies, including Gary, doubled, to drawn the table for over 40 between 2x Gary and 2x Wayward. All told, I ended with about 20 cards left in the library and drained for over 60 life.

Gotta spend money to make money

[Nikromancer]

This primer is awesome!

I did notice when going through your list that its showing 97 cards instead of 100 though. What cards are missing from the list?

[yeti1069]

Almost killed myself with draw in a game just now!

Had Undead Augur out, and needed some cards, so I played Tombstone Stairwell with 1 zombie in the yard (1 opponent had 0, and the other also had 1). Also had Champion of the Perished out. First turn cycle was good, drew 3 extra cards and lost 3 life, then another chunk to Graveborn Muse. Kept the Stairwell since I had plenty of mana with Nykthos. Swung with Varina to draw some cards and gain some life, and pitched a few zombies to the yard, not thinking about the turn cycle. Each upkeep I was making 4 zombies, and losing 4/drawing 4 each end step. The 8 before my turn had me in the low 20s, and I had another chunk coming from the Muse, so I opted not to keep Stairwell the second time around. As it was, I ended up in the teens.

Swung, pitched Wonder, Rot Hulk, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel (had Necromancer's Apprentice in play from the previous turn), and connected with a 19/19 Champion. Drew into Necroduality and Empty the Laboratory. Cast both after combat, sacrificing 6 zombies (and doming myself for another draw 6/lose 6). Turned up Wayward Servant and Noxious Ghoul...and did the math ALL WRONG for Necroduality. 6 zombies, doubled, should have been 20 life and -24/-24 to all non-zombies. As it turned out, it didn't matter, because I then sacrificed the Apprentice to get Rot Hulk back, which reanimated 4 zombies, including Gary, doubled, to drawn the table for over 40 between 2x Gary and 2x Wayward. All told, I ended with about 20 cards left in the library and drained for over 60 life.

Gotta spend money to make money

Heh. Yup! Was considering keeping the enchantment around for another cycle, but wasn't sure I wanted to spend the mana to keep it with so many cards in hand.

[pokken]

Oof Void Rend is a pretty sick upgrade for Generous Gift harder to cast but uncounterable is real.

[toctheyounger]

Oof Void Rend is a pretty sick upgrade for Generous Gift harder to cast but uncounterable is real.

It does seem better yeah. That 3/3 doesn't matter to many decks but it does feel like it could matter more to us. Not that we care too much about our stuff dying, we were going to do it anyway, but it definitely affects combat decisions. And yeah uncounterable is really nice.

[Eburon]

Oof Void Rend is a pretty sick upgrade for Generous Gift harder to cast but uncounterable is real.

Yeah, that is an exciting upgrade.

[pzbw7z]

Oof Void Rend is a pretty sick upgrade for Generous Gift harder to cast but uncounterable is real.

Yeah, that is an exciting upgrade.

Agreed. Seems to be worthy of archetype staple status.

[toctheyounger]

So I've got a few updates coming to the list in the next few....I guess when I have time to make further notations. Some big ones on the way, which should dramatically drop the curve and streamline things a bit more. Mostly just low cost zombies and good draw, what the deck needs. Gotta say, the cuts are getting super hard. Each one is becoming a conundrum.

I picked up a Haakon, Stromgald Scourge for future consideration. But before I go ahead and slap it in sight unseen I wanted to ask people using the knight shell if the juice is worth the squeeze. What sort of lines are you following? Is it viable sans Intuition? From the outside looking in, it looks a bit janky, no offense to anyone involved, but if it does actually have some reliability and resilience to it I'd be amenable to making some room.

What say you?

[Falkenbach]

Oof Void Rend is a pretty sick upgrade for Generous Gift harder to cast but uncounterable is real.

Yeah, that is an exciting upgrade.

Agreed. Seems to be worthy of archetype staple status.

It does not target lands tho which might matter sometimes?

[toctheyounger]

This primer is awesome!

I did notice when going through your list that its showing 97 cards instead of 100 though. What cards are missing from the list?

image.png

Thanks so much! Truth be told this has been a labor of love from many of us here, I feel like the deck has come a long way from humble beginnings to quite a force these days. Absolutely not all my doing, I just provided the venue. At any rate, welcome and enjoy however many pages of zombie strategy we're up to now.

Looking at the list in the OP I can't see right off the top of my head what is missing to cap off 100, but I do have new upgrades to make to the list anyway. I'll get em then for sure.

[pokken]

It does not target lands tho which might matter sometimes?

Yeah that is definitely a thing, I just almost never find myself wanting to remove a land anymore. Uncounterably stopping key cards feels more important.

[pzbw7z]

Yeah, that is an exciting upgrade.

Agreed. Seems to be worthy of archetype staple status.

It does not target lands tho which might matter sometimes?

That's a good point. It still seems to be among the best removal options.

Three different-colored mana is an issue and this may not be for budget builds, but it is not an issue for a well-built mana-base.

Personally, I value flexibility very highly, but cost also has a value. One might be willing to slot in a two-MV spell over a one-MV spell for more flexibility, but maybe not a three-MV spell.

I suppose we will see.

[Falkenbach]

Agreed. Seems to be worthy of archetype staple status.

It does not target lands tho which might matter sometimes?

That's a good point. It still seems to be among the best removal options.

Three different-colored mana is an issue and this may not be for budget builds, but it is not an issue for a well-built mana-base.

Personally, I value flexibility very highly, but cost also has a value. One might be willing to slot in a two-MV spell over a one-MV spell for more flexibility, but maybe not a three-MV spell.

I suppose we will see.

At the moment i run Generous Gift and Anguished Unmaking as removal options. I think for me personally the ability to exile and the ability to destroy a itlamoc cradle of the sun is more valuable than getting your removal countered (which rarely happends)

[pzbw7z]

So I've got a few updates coming to the list in the next few....I guess when I have time to make further notations. Some big ones on the way, which should dramatically drop the curve and streamline things a bit more. Mostly just low cost zombies and good draw, what the deck needs. Gotta say, the cuts are getting super hard. Each one is becoming a conundrum.

I picked up a Haakon, Stromgald Scourge for future consideration. But before I go ahead and slap it in sight unseen I wanted to ask people using the knight shell if the juice is worth the squeeze. What sort of lines are you following? Is it viable sans Intuition? From the outside looking in, it looks a bit janky, no offense to anyone involved, but if it does actually have some reliability and resilience to it I'd be amenable to making some room.

What say you?

There needs to be payoffs; Foulmire Knight // Profane Insight offers possibilities in combination with Haakon and Phyrexian Altar. [Liliana's Standard Bearer increase in value with the ability to recast Haakan provides - indeed, all the Zombie Knights increase in value, but Standard guy has a really high ceiling.

I haven't implemented many changes that could enhance the package; Buried Alive is one that comes up often and is probably the best enabler for a Haakon package. Haakan, Corpse Knight and Foulmire = GG with P. Altar.

I've been a Haakon fanboy for years, so I might be biased, but I really enjoy playing him and he has obvious synergy with Varina. One does need other Knights for it to provide more value than any other creature with built-in recursion.

[pokken]

The combo of b: draw escalating insane numbers of cards with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge Liliana's Standard Bearer and Ashnod's Altar is also something worth thinking on. At around 10 black mana you're drawing most of your deck (~55 cards assuming you can't kickstart the train by saccing a few other dudes). Odds of you drawing into a finisher are pretty high.

[toctheyounger]

Thanks guys. I guess my concern with adding in a knights package is a) what the hell do i cut to wedge it in and b) are there enough knights to justify the inclusion.

I think I might be getting ahead of myself anyway, with recent changes its probably worth seeing if another angle is even needed, but there's elements of the package in the build already, so its worth considering.

[pokken]

Thanks guys. I guess my concern with adding in a knights package is a) what the hell do i cut to wedge it in and b) are there enough knights to justify the inclusion.

I think I might be getting ahead of myself anyway, with recent changes its probably worth seeing if another angle is even needed, but there's elements of the package in the build already, so its worth considering.

The nice thing is Haakon, Stromgald Scourge has a nice solid failmode of "1BB: draw a card and get a 3/3 zombie" which is really not that horrible.

My knights package is all cards I want to be playing:

• foulmire knight
• universal automaton
• changeling outcast
• corpse knight
• liliana's standard bearer
• murderous rider

Seems to work out fine and I love having those extra 1 drops for triggering Varina.

[toctheyounger]

Thanks guys. I guess my concern with adding in a knights package is a) what the hell do i cut to wedge it in and b) are there enough knights to justify the inclusion.

I think I might be getting ahead of myself anyway, with recent changes its probably worth seeing if another angle is even needed, but there's elements of the package in the build already, so its worth considering.

The nice thing is Haakon, Stromgald Scourge has a nice solid failmode of "1BB: draw a card and get a 3/3 zombie" which is really not that horrible.

My knights package is all cards I want to be playing:

• foulmire knight
• universal automaton
• changeling outcast
• corpse knight
• liliana's standard bearer
• murderous rider

Seems to work out fine and I love having those extra 1 drops for triggering Varina.

Yeah this was my thought. I want the changelings anyway, some of the knights are key cards anyway, is it burdensome to add Haakon? Idk, space is tight so right now yes. But its worth considering in the next round of updates maybe.

[pzbw7z]

Sadly, Murderous Rider // Swift End does not really get on with with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge.

[pokken]

Sadly, Murderous Rider // Swift End does not really get on with with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge.

It is only on death. If you discard it it works fine to cast as a bro. It's not something I actively look to do but I have before heh

[pokken]

I could see lethal scheme making some nice sequencing where you make a couple zombies and connive them.

[ChocoDude]

What do you all think of Obscura Confluence? You could cast it after blockers are declared to miniaturize up to three nuisance opposing creatures (and hopefully kill them) or connive to filter more and pump or to bring back a zombie(s) we need from the yard. Seems decently strong. I know our lists are all getting super tight and it's hard to pull stuff, but this seems decent. Thoughts?

[pokken]

What do you all think of Obscura Confluence? You could cast it after blockers are declared to miniaturize up to three nuisance opposing creatures (and hopefully kill them) or connive to filter more and pump or to bring back a zombie(s) we need from the yard. Seems decently strong. I know our lists are all getting super tight and it's hard to pull stuff, but this seems decent. Thoughts?

No real room for 4 mana instants in my deck but I'm particular

[Eburon]

What do you all think of Obscura Confluence? You could cast it after blockers are declared to miniaturize up to three nuisance opposing creatures (and hopefully kill them) or connive to filter more and pump or to bring back a zombie(s) we need from the yard. Seems decently strong. I know our lists are all getting super tight and it's hard to pull stuff, but this seems decent. Thoughts?

No real room for 4 mana instants in my deck but I'm particular

I concur with @pokken. 4 mana is a lot for that effect. All modes are useful, but likely not enough. The chance you hit creatures you want to kill are likely minimal. Filtering/Card draw can be done more efficiently for the same (or lower) cost with other cards. The last effect is not strong enough for that cost. Sure, I get zombies back, but I am out 4 mana I want to use so I can cast them.

Overall, I think the impact is a little too low compared to the cost. That said, it does have utility, which does make up for some of the lack of efficiency.