[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

[Albegas]

I do love the effort into the art of basic lands recently. I will probably try to obtain 6-10 of the upcoming full art lands because the art is so beautiful. If there's any one flaw, it's that they just...don't feel like MtG lands. They almost seem to exist in a vacuum. The latest Innistrad alt arts gave me a similar vibe. Yeah, they do a great job of invoke classic horror film posters...but MtG isn't a classic horror film, it's a collection of fantasy settings. By comparison, the D&D alt arts still felt like MtG to a degree since MtG is very much rooted in classic western fantasy. I'd probably even appreciate a set of MtG-specific locations and characters getting the D&D treatment despite not playing D&D. Heck, you can already find D&D campaign books based on Theros and other MtG locations.

Like I said though, this is a nitpick, and I'm probably still about to bust out my wallet the second the new ukiyo-e lands come out. And no I'm not an art expert, I'm just enough of a weeb to know what ukiyo-e is and subsequently gush over it.

This post doesn't really talk about Modern much, does it? Uh...ban that card and unban that other one already

[Simto]

Bit of a sidenote, but those new full art Kamigawa basic lands make me want to play again no matter the meta. Holy %$#% they look amazing.
The weeb in me wants 30 of each hehe.

They do look ... so cool. But I think at this point, WotC is getting too crazy on lands. They've clearly identified lands as something that players love to customize, but when everything is special, "nothing is special" anymore. Still ... these lands are GAS and I'm not even a weeb → barely know what that means, lol.

Yeah, the whole model they have with each card having 3-4 different special edition versions is rather off putting to me. But those lands do look cool hehe.

[AvalonAurora]

Yeah, the whole model they have with each card having 3-4 different special edition versions is rather off putting to me. But those lands do look cool hehe.

I think WotC has figured out that the collectors make them the most money, but that the collectors don't collect regardless of how good the game is at the time, but partly based on how popular play is, and tend to target the most played cards at tournaments and such. So they want to make sure there are lots of potential versions for collectors to chase of any tournament staples that they can't easily predict ahead of time at the quality of playtesting they've internally acknowledged is lacking, which forces them to design tons of different versions of tons of different cards.

They might also be trying to put to use art assets they hire for anyway but would previously have culled down to a single choice for each-card and maybe some promos later on.

[Simto]

Yeah, if there's one thing we can be certain of, it's Wizards 100% thinking about maximum profits hehe. And no I'm not saying it's wrong to make money and all that.

[The Fluff]

can anyone give a link to the page with full art lands of kamigawa? Want to see too.

just came back, no internet for 2 weeks...

[Simto]

can anyone give a link to the page with full art lands of kamigawa? Want to see too.

just came back, no internet for 2 weeks...

Scroll down a bit and then you'll get to them.
They made two types. One with old school Kamigawa and one with current Kamigawa. They're some of my favourite lands they've ever made hehe.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2021-12-16

[The Fluff]

nice, those new lands look great. Reminds me of old japanese paintings.

[motleyslayer]

I played a 1k on the weekend, 37 players. You can tell a lot of streamers were on Grixis Shadow, as that was easily the most represented deck. Followed by hammer time

[The Fluff]

lots of Grixis Shadow.. out of curiosity, most versions of that deck still using 4 ragavan? I just want to be updated on the latest iteration of the deck.

[FoodChainGoblins]

I played a 1k on the weekend, 37 players. You can tell a lot of streamers were on Grixis Shadow, as that was easily the most represented deck. Followed by hammer time

Nice. Where was this at? It seems Shadow is on top right now, so this makes sense. I saw d00mwake using Grove of the Burnwillows as a 4 of in his Rhinos (Eldrazi Rhinos, lol) list for Shadow. If Shadow is on top, Humans and 4 Color Elementals seem like solid choices.

lots of Grixis Shadow.. out of curiosity, most versions of that deck still using 4 ragavan? I just want to be updated on the latest iteration of the deck.

Yes, they have 4 Ragavan and 4 Dragon's Rage Channeler. They don't rely on the Shadow as much as they did in the past because of the sheer power of these red 1 drops. You could probably search mtgtop8.com for Shadow in the past 2 weeks...

[The Fluff]

@FoodChainGoblins

oh, so Grixis Shadow has a lot more red cards these days.

thanks for the info. Will check out some of the lists on mtgtop8.

[motleyslayer]

I played a 1k on the weekend, 37 players. You can tell a lot of streamers were on Grixis Shadow, as that was easily the most represented deck. Followed by hammer time

Nice. Where was this at? It seems Shadow is on top right now, so this makes sense. I saw d00mwake using Grove of the Burnwillows as a 4 of in his Rhinos (Eldrazi Rhinos, lol) list for Shadow. If Shadow is on top, Humans and 4 Color Elementals seem like solid choices.

lots of Grixis Shadow.. out of curiosity, most versions of that deck still using 4 ragavan? I just want to be updated on the latest iteration of the deck.

Yes, they have 4 Ragavan and 4 Dragon's Rage Channeler. They don't rely on the Shadow as much as they did in the past because of the sheer power of these red 1 drops. You could probably search mtgtop8.com for Shadow in the past 2 weeks...

event was at Critical Hit Gaming Lounge, Courtice, Ontario, Canada.

top 8 was 2x hammer, 1 murktide. 1 shadow, 1 belcher, 1 yorion rhinos, 1 burn and 1 rakdos deck abusing the pitch elementals and ways to bring them back

[FoodChainGoblins]

event was at Critical Hit Gaming Lounge, Courtice, Ontario, Canada.

top 8 was 2x hammer, 1 murktide. 1 shadow, 1 belcher, 1 yorion rhinos, 1 burn and 1 rakdos deck abusing the pitch elementals and ways to bring them back

Oh cool. I actually have a (somewhat) local buddy that was traveling and played in that tournament. Not sure what he played. I think it was Esper Reanimator or 4 color Creativity. Surprisingly, he didn't top 8 this tournament.

Seems about right, but the pitch elemental version of Rakdos seems much more glass cannon than the "aspiringspike" version, lol.

[EonAon]

SO a question, why does modern affinity play Jegantha, the Wellspring? Ive been trying to puzzle it out but I just cant get it.

[MAGUSZANIN]

SO a question, why does modern affinity play Jegantha, the Wellspring? Ive been trying to puzzle it out but I just cant get it.

Because it's functionally free due to all the colorless cards it already plays. Why not play an 8 mana 5/5 if you don't even need a slot in the 60 for it?

[motleyslayer]

event was at Critical Hit Gaming Lounge, Courtice, Ontario, Canada.

top 8 was 2x hammer, 1 murktide. 1 shadow, 1 belcher, 1 yorion rhinos, 1 burn and 1 rakdos deck abusing the pitch elementals and ways to bring them back

Oh cool. I actually have a (somewhat) local buddy that was traveling and played in that tournament. Not sure what he played. I think it was Esper Reanimator or 4 color Creativity. Surprisingly, he didn't top 8 this tournament.

Seems about right, but the pitch elemental version of Rakdos seems much more glass cannon than the "aspiringspike" version, lol.

While I can't claim to have seen the whole room, I don't recall seeing any Esper reanimator decks. I know I had a friend who played 4c creativity in that event, she's been on the deck for a few months

[iTaLenTZ]

Modern feels in a very weird spot. MH2 powercreeped the format even more to a point people call it "Horizons block'. The powerlevel of Standard has gone down thus it will be very hard for new cards to make an impact in Modern which in turn will make the format even more stale. There isn't a single card to call out for a ban. Everything is OP.

- Hammer going for consistent T3 kills
- Wrenn and Six enabling 4-5c goodstuff piles homogenizing decks thus doing the same thing DRS was doing to Legacy
- Urza's Sage and Ragavan are omnipresent
- The companions are still a misstake
- The elemental cycle has proven to be extremely powerful

Where do we go from here? Is there a problem and should it be fixed? If so then how?

[Tzoulis]

Where do we go from here? Is there a problem and should it be fixed? If so then how?

We leave it as is, because it is the best it has been in years, but I'll do a point by point:

- Hammer going for consistent T3 kills

So is Titan, Belcher and to some extend Burn. Of all these, Hammer is the most interactable in G1.

- Wrenn and Six enabling 4-5c goodstuff piles homogenizing decks thus doing the same thing DRS was doing to Legacy

While Wrenn plays a role, 4c-5c piles (outside of Niv's gimmick) exist because of omnath and the pitch elementals. Also, homogenizing what? The 4-5c Omnath piles (again excluding 5C Niv's gimmick)? They're the same deck with some differences.

- Urza's Sage and Ragavan are omnipresent

So were Lili's, Goyfs etc. Bolt still is a top 10 card, Shadow and Thoughtseize as well. Hell, Goyf is having a resurgence compared to past years.

- The companions are still a misstake

I disagree in them being overall a mistake, pre-errata definitely, but I can't see Shadow playing 3cmc permanents if Lurrus gets banned; Hammer arguably doesn't need it. Murktide, Burn, Cascade and Control decks don't need one.

Before you complain about Kaheera in UW; it doesn't need Snaps - they always have been mediocre in the UW shell, so they dropped the for: Shark Typhoon, Archmage's Charm, Counterspell, Prismatic Ending, Chalice, Memory Deluge and, of course, Solitude.

- The elemental cycle has proven to be extremely powerful

And I ask you, so? They, along with Heat, Ending and Channeler and Ragavan, have pushed Modern to be significantly more interactive. Their main problem, along with Ragavan, is that they are mythics, which is another discussion altogether -and is not as bad as some make it out to be.


In general, the meta, especially the online one, is extremely cyclical - which is good. Your local meta may vary - as is mine, people usually have 1-2 decks and they just upgrade those or trade into others, but the it still cycles - especially sideboard hate.

[Arkmer]

Where do we go from here? Is there a problem and should it be fixed? If so then how?

We leave it as is, because it is the best it has been in years

Counter point... I took my money to my investment and saving accounts. Haven't played since August-ish and I've sold most of my stuff.

If you're enjoying it, great, but the direction the game has gone is too far from what I can tolerate. Those I used to enjoy this game with started being more open about whether or not I was enjoying the game around the time MH1 came out, now a couple years later the question is posed often enough that I had no choice but to sit back and see where the game has gone. There's just no room for the niche reactive play style I enjoy, the things I decided would fix it were far to fanciful to hope for and they're certainly not worth mentioning here. However, the points you make are wonderful for you and your point of view, for others the game is just moving on into a terrible direction.

Think of those who have all left over the last few years, think of those who repeatedly state that they take issue with the game's state and direction, we're tired of it... The game has changed, it's irrefutable, it's not showing signs of going back, and not all of us enjoy the direction.

[Simto]

I just wish it wasn't so expensive hehe

[Tzoulis]

Counter point... I took my money to my investment and saving accounts. Haven't played since August-ish and I've sold most of my stuff.

I mean, seeing MtG as a "safe" investment is wrong. Even I with my foiled out decks and masterpieces, don't consider it "safe" - and Invention Opals have rebounded in price, Swords, Needles etc. have exploded in value. So I do not see a counterpoint here.

However, the points you make are wonderful for you and your point of view, for others the game is just moving on into a terrible direction.

Aside from a couple of subjective arguments like the Companion one , the rest are comparisons to eras where Modern was generally considered "good", and it's the same with different cards/decks at the top, but still plenty of old cards are hanging around and are still relevant.

The "terrible direction" I see is the constant printing of chase mythics, but that has always happened and to all decks throughout Modern more or less. I had to fork over 200~ euros for 5 mana Teferi when it got printed and then a few months later another 50-90 for Search for Azcanta + more for the Miracles package. Similarly, earlier, when Jeskai Nahiri first produced results, she was well over 30 eurosper copy, plus you needed 2 Emrakuls, so the full package would cost someone 160-200 euros to "upgrade", and when it eventually fell off, lose money on the Nahiris. Plus, 70+ euro per JtMS when it got unbanned (so at least another 210 euros).

Most, decks, even through MH1 and MH2, needed that kind of investment to be as competitive as they could be. For my decks, 5C Niv needed W&6 from MH1 and General Ferrus from MH2; Artifact decks needed Urzas and that's mostly it frm MH1, and Sagas and Esper Sentinels, Control decks needed FoN and Charms (which were dirt cheap for 2 years) and now Solitudes.

The overall cost of entry may be higher today, but it's not up by much compared to older periods.

Think of those who have all left over the last few years, think of those who repeatedly state that they take issue with the game's state and direction, we're tired of it... The game has changed, it's irrefutable, it's not showing signs of going back, and not all of us enjoy the direction.

I mean, I get "not enjoyining", which is completely subjective, but people leave and new ones come. I didn't enjoy post-Opal Modern much, so I took a break - Covid helped on that regard.

The MH years have been great for my city's Modern scene (Legacy was already dead). However, the most vocal complainers in my country's MtG groups are people who either stopped Modern (and mtg in general) due to outside factors or are nostalgic for a game that hasn't existed for over 20 years or don't really play the format outside the occasional large-ish competitive event Just the other day, I had someone from that group of people link Rudy's video where he opened an Urza's Legacy box, saying that's "real magic", completely missing the irony of lauding the most broken sets in magic's history as "real magic", when he has consistently derided newer sets - especially MH1 and MH2.

All said, the one thing we can definitely agree on is this:

I just wish it wasn't so expensive hehe

[Arkmer]

I never considered MtG an investment, to be clear. I was surprised many of my cards sold for what they did, then again I started playing in Urza's Saga.

Honestly... it's all subjective. You even say "Modern was generally considered 'good'" in the same sentence, isn't that subjective? It's all subjective. Hammer time is better for the format than whatever? Subjective. Slow reactive decks are universally being pushed out? Subjective. White is a bad color? Subjective. There are far to many mistakes for me to stay in the game? Subjective but true for me, which is essentially what subjective means.

I got out because the enjoyment I received was not worth the price I was paying. If it was less expensive I might still play, but that's not the case.

[iTaLenTZ]

To me it feels like they are always pushing some unbalanced things to artificially shake things up and that is exactly what I don't enjoy about Modern. They went to far with the powerlevel in MH2 to turn it into a cash grab. If I want to play Modern competitively again after 2 years I need to spend at least 500 euros. The powerlevel difference between Modern ad Legacy is becoming smaller and smaller.

How safe is W6? It is insanely strong and will only get stronger over time. I am afraid to buy them as with many other cards.

[drmarkb]

Got to say, they seem to have fixed the leaky front door by patching with the roof.
First up- Legacy is in a worse position than Modern, so things could be worse. Secondly both formats still offer things I want. There will always be some level of stuff I want to do.,

However, for myself I dislike this constant push towards "interaction", because it ends up with very specific forms of interaction- the ones enjoyed by EDH players- play a permanent, remove a permanent. This leads to cards that (a) kill or deal with most things and (b) the actual types of permanent become irrelevant, as the cards in (a) don't care if your card is an enchantment or otherwise. Cards that say "you can't play a hammer" don't get printed at usable levels because EDH players don't like them, so we have meddling mage forever being the xenith of those effects whilst removal improves. You could argue about the semantics of "interaction", but I think a player noticing that an opponent is on, say hammer time, and naming a card that hits one card out of the opponent's strategy, or severely taxing one aspect of an opponent's strategy, until it is removed of course (by interaction), makes for an interesting game.

Combo will naturally improve over time, aggro will naturally improve over time but not as much, and control will naturally evolve towards the only type of control - a UWx deck with U for counters and mass removal/ending in white. Other forms of control- will find it increasingly harder to establish themselves because the card design won't really allow for better effects that tax, and cards like Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge will progressively get worse as new and more flexible maindeck removal is printed, like Ending, Borrower etc.
Some don't like those effects, but I personally want to play with permanents that inhibit my opponent's ability to execute their game plan rather than react to what they play by killing it with my catch all removal.

The biggest issue for me is that many of the cards I don't want are not bannable- Ending being the big one.

I do think the number of Lurrus decks is silly, but don't see many locally. I think it has an adverse effect on the game. A ubiquitous removal spell I can take, a ubiquitous companion with building restrictions is more harmful. W6 was banned in Legacy, I am surprised it is still going strong in Modern, but without wasteland I can see why, but it will glue 4c pile decks together forever. The removal for walkers has improved too, which is welcome.
Financially, with mh3 and beyond, Modern is going to be very expensive going forward. I can see why Canlander is an attractive alternative.

[Ed06288]

I'd like to see Companion and Urza's Saga removed. Ragavan is problematic too but I can live with it. Wrenn and Six has also been problematic and I'm glad someone pointed that out, but I hope he can stick around.