[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - North Star

[hyalopterouslemur]

One of the less annoying extra turn spells, but still an extra turn spell.

I see "exile CARDNAME" as generally acceptable since loops are impossible, or Rube Goldberg nonsense.

[BeneTleilax]

I see "exile CARDNAME" as generally acceptable since loops are impossible, or Rube Goldberg nonsense.

Agreed. Turns is probably my least favorite loop, because it's non-deterministic without requiring much in the way of planning or effort in either deckbuilding or play. This is speaking only from fairly casual EDH, where the considerations of when and how to play around countermagic during the combo turn are negligible.

[Sinis]

Wednesday, November 10th, 2021; Temporal Mastery
Oh boy. Let the discussion commence! 👀

This card is so fair. Exiles itself. It's costly manawise, unless you flip it randomly. I loved it when it was printed in AVR, and bought a playset. To this day, it is often the only extra turn spell I run.

[onering]

Its not that hard to break the synergy,

Can I say how much this bugs me? The word is symmetry. Synergy is two cards working to a common goal, like Doubling Season and Cathars' Crusade. Play Raise the Alarm and get four 9/9s. Or Underworld Dreams and Teferi's Puzzle Box to basically cast Sudden Impact over and over and would you believe that's not even the most evil thing I can do with Puzzle Box? The opposite of synergy is antagonism, like lieges and guild champions with Mycosynth Lattice.)

Sorry, it's not just you, the entire forum make a this mistake and it's been bothering me for some time.

I know the difference, it was a typo, I'm definitely not changing it.

[tstorm823]

I see "exile CARDNAME" as generally acceptable since loops are impossible, or Rube Goldberg nonsense.

It only takes 4 cards, that's hardly Rube Goldberg.

[pokken]

This card really makes mirage tutors frustrating sometimes

[Sinis]

This card really makes mirage tutors frustrating sometimes

Don't undersell Personal Tutor in this!

[pokken]

This card really makes mirage tutors frustrating sometimes

Don't undersell Personal Tutor in this!

I'll take, cards I need to sell immediately for $80.

[Hawk]

I see "exile CARDNAME" as generally acceptable since loops are impossible, or Rube Goldberg nonsense.

It only takes 4 cards, that's hardly Rube Goldberg.

With so many powerful 2-card combos, going back to the dawn of EDH with "Mike + Trike" and Curious Niv, to modern day Demonic Consultation + Thassa's Oracle, Zirda, the Dawnwaker + Basalt Monolith, Heliod, Sun-Crowned + Walking Ballista and Prossh, Skyraider of Kher + Food Chain, I'd say any combo that's more than 3 cards qualifies as "Rube Goldberg" at this point and that goes double for a combo that doesn't get to run its pieces in the command or companion zone.

Going infinite with this (or its "exile" counterparts like Karn's Temporal Sundering, Alrund's Epiphany, Part the Waterveil) requires you to have Pull from Eternity or some other way to nab cards out of exile, which is a ton of work compared to any number of other, better combos. As such, I'd consider it pretty fair and acceptable game

[Myllior]

I'm generally not a fan of extra turn spells, or their associated price tags, but Temporal Mastery is one of two such spells - the other being Temporal Trespass - that I run in a singular deck, being Vial Smasher the Fierce and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces. Being able to cast a large CMC spell for a heavily discounted price, while also allowing for additional Smasher triggers, is just dreamy.

[pokken]

Given that going infinite with Time Warp is not exactly rocket science I don't lose any sleep about Temporal Mastery as a combo card. It's pretty savage as good stuff with copy effects though.

I frigging love me some Seasons Past Mystical Tutor Time Warp combo

[Mookie]

Amusing anecdote re: extra turns - this last weekend, I was in a three person pod with a Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God extra turns deck (rule 0'd to be legal). On turn 5, they play their commander, and on turn 6, they cast Time Warp for an extra turn. My response is to Reverberate.... and so was the third player's response. Net result: we built our own one-off Aeon Engine!

Anyway, as extra turns go, Temporal Mastery is relatively fair - seven mana is a lot, and it exiles itself. It's obviously incredibly efficient if you miracle it, but that requires some setup - if you hit it in the early game, it's going to function as an Explore, which is... good, but not gamebreaking. That said, as we've seen with Nexus of Fate and Alrund's Epiphany in Standard, there is a very delicate line for extra turns between 'unplayable' and 'totally broken'.

[tstorm823]

requires you to have Pull from Eternity or some other way to nab cards out of exile, which is a ton of work compared to any number of other, better combos.

Don't you trash-talk my Mirror of Fate! I play that out of desire, not requirement.

[Sinis]

Don't you trash-talk my Mirror of Fate! I play that out of desire, not requirement.

Hello fellow Mirror of Fate enjoyer.

[3drinks]

Thursday, November 11th, 2021; Epiphany at the Drownyard

I read this as a scalable Fact or Fiction and got super excited...until I realized it's just scalable Steam Augury womp womp.

[Serenade]

Tremendous name

[pokken]

This has been seeing some play in various Varina, Lich Queen decks, which is kinda where I think it's best - decks who are as happy to put crap in the graveyard, and who can create wildly lopsided piles where this is basically cheaper Braingeyser. Varina is particularly special because her typical mass reanimation strategy leads to "I don't care which pile you give me" situations.

Say you're at endgame and you epiphany for 8 a (9 cards, for 9 mana) at an end step, and your rip is Living Death, 4 zombies, a spell and 3 lands.

You put Living Death in one pile and everything else in the other pile. They are forced to give you 8 cards because if they don't you just Living Death and kill them. So any time you hit a mass reanimation spell you XU draw X cards. Which is the most efficient draw spell ever just about.

Early game you can play like Bad Fact or Fiction for X=2 or 3 (3 or 4 cards).

Generally I think this card is because of the steam augury rider a lot worse, but good deck design can make it far better than Fact or Fiction and it scales really well late in the game.

(Note that Open the Vaults / Scrap Mastery / Replenish decks can do the same thing; I used to play it in enchantress for this reason)

[TheAmericanSpirit]

This was so close to being good. SO CLOSE. FoF is one of my favorite cards and I will resent this card until the sun burns out for not being what it should be, which is scaling FoF. "You cut, I choose" rules. "I cut, you choose" stinks like sundried cottage cheese. It was so close...

[Wallycaine]

Somedays I wonder how this effect would get evaluated if they'd just never printed Fact or Fiction. I feel like they'd get higher marks, just because they're not mentally being compared to the less skill intensive version to use. By putting the skill requirement on the caster, these versions play better, which is why Wizards tends to print them in the modern day, but they're always getting compared back to the strongest version of the effect.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Somedays I wonder how this effect would get evaluated if they'd just never printed Fact or Fiction. I feel like they'd get higher marks, just because they're not mentally being compared to the less skill intensive version to use. By putting the skill requirement on the caster, these versions play better, which is why Wizards tends to print them in the modern day, but they're always getting compared back to the strongest version of the effect.

Neither effect is less skill intensive, it's about the onus of whose skill is tested. You play epiphany and you have pay for it and you get tested. Fof, you pay for it and it tests your opponent. From a caster perspective, it's more fun to make your opponent guess what you want only to reveal it in the choice of fof than playing epiphany and be forced to keep a poker face about what you actually wanted imo.

Edit: the above is obviously poorly written but I feel under the weather today, sorry. What I'm trying to say is that I prefer the fof minigame to the epiphany minigame from a psychological perspective but I am underequipped in scientific jargon and knowledge of the medical lexicon to explain exactly why.

[Wallycaine]

Somedays I wonder how this effect would get evaluated if they'd just never printed Fact or Fiction. I feel like they'd get higher marks, just because they're not mentally being compared to the less skill intensive version to use. By putting the skill requirement on the caster, these versions play better, which is why Wizards tends to print them in the modern day, but they're always getting compared back to the strongest version of the effect.

Neither effect is less skill intensive, it's about the onus of whose skill is tested. You play epiphany and you have pay for it and you get tested. Fof, you pay for it and it tests your opponent. From a caster perspective, it's more fun to make your opponent guess what you want only to reveal it in the choice of fof than playing epiphany and be forced to keep a poker face about what you actually wanted imo.

Edit: the above is obviously poorly written but I feel under the weather today, sorry. What I'm trying to say is that I prefer the fof minigame to the epiphany minigame from a psychological perspective but I am underequipped in scientific jargon and knowledge of the medical lexicon to explain exactly why.

That's why the full portion of that sentence is "less skill intensive to *play*" (emphasis added). FoF tests your opponents skill, and by extension, gives the caster the less difficult choice. Epiphany effects test the casters skill, which makes them more skill intensive for the person playing them.

[pokken]

It's not only more skill intensive at magic but it's demanding of emotional intelligence too - got to know what kind of decisions people are prone to make and how the table will discuss things, etc. It's a pretty darn good card design imho - better than Steam Augury because it scales, and it has a lot of advantages due to having only one U pip.

An additional point is the odds are pretty high that someone will give you all the cards if you're not ahead So politics!

[toctheyounger]

Basically what pokken said about it in Varina builds. Its very strong there, purely because Varina is really versatile. In most scenarios even if you aren't stacking the piles for an obvious pick you can get good value from either, purely because we can make bank either way.

I definitely prefer FoF as a card - its the skill test of a good player for both players in the exchange and its my favorite interaction in the game. It separates the players with good decks from the good players with good decks.

This is close though. Theres still an element of that skill test there but it only cuts one way, it hits parity on cards seen for mana spent which is almost unheard of at all, and in the right deck it puts in good work.

[BeneTleilax]

I don't really like the whole shibboleth of FoF in EDH communities. "Target the worst player" makes sense from a strategic perspective, but it also generally means putting the new guy on the spot, and sometimes even the choice of targets conveys an insult. This is compounded by some experienced players viewing it as some test of character, and raging at the target if they get it wrong (or just take too long).

[pokken]

I don't really like the whole shibboleth of FoF in EDH communities. "Target the worst player" makes sense from a strategic perspective, but it also generally means putting the new guy on the spot, and sometimes even the choice of targets conveys an insult. This is compounded by some experienced players viewing it as some test of character, and raging at the target if they get it wrong (or just take too long).

What a strange world you live in where the entire table doesn't collaborate on this stuff. Do they not ask for help? Is it some kind of rite of passage?

hell, this is just me, but half the time I'll tell them how I'd split it if I cast fof, because how the hell can they know my deck Same goes with Intuition I'll usually explain the optimal split these days, it just saves time.

(in construction the card pool is so much smaller and you know what cards are in someone's deck to like, 90% accuracy, it's much easier)