Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[yeti1069]

Hey, we got our zombie archeomancer: Repository Skaab

Add this to the cards I will definitely be running from this set! Even in the highly competitive 4cmc slot lol.

Rejoice!

I believe you can just keep looping this to get your mass reanimate spell back every time you cast it lol. Wewt

Yup! (Un)life is good!

[pokken]

I'm already playing Archaeomancer as one of my 4 4drops so the cut is quite easy for me hehe

I'm now thinking about putting Academy Rector in there somewhere, since I have another non-zombie slot and all the sac outlets make it pretty easy

[yeti1069]

Just want to mention that the counter spell zombie is going to look especially good alongside Rooftop Storm, or Mikaeus+sac outlet. And provides interesting (if expensive) tech with Havengul Lich.

[plaganegra]

I'm already playing Archaeomancer as one of my 4 4drops so the cut is quite easy for me hehe

I'm now thinking about putting Academy Rector in there somewhere, since I have another non-zombie slot and all the sac outlets make it pretty easy

What is the go-to enchantment for you that makes it worth running? I am intrigued and can def see this

[pokken]

What is the go-to enchantment for you that makes it worth running? I am intrigued and can def see this

Any of Kindred Discovery or Tombstone Stairwell. Tombstone Stairwell + any zombie drainer is basically instant death for opponents. For me, Discovery has been kinda nutty to be honest, and I can imagine Necroduality being similarly worth it.

(Dictate of Erebos is also good, but probably the last thing I would search for...nice as an option I guess).

[toctheyounger]

So uh, does Zombiemancer confirm that someone from R&D reads this primer? Lol I kid, but praise sweet zombie Jesus its what I've wanted all my life.

Problem is now we've got logjams at 3,4 and 5. Its a real first world problem but still, we've all got some tough choices ahead.

As for Snappy, I see no reason not to run both. The 2 slot is free enough and Snappy is good enough to count as an engine with Reclamation. I'd be a fool to drop it I think.

Rector seems a smoke em if you got em thing. I don't and probably never will own one, that price is bonkers. Last I checked they were like 140 NZD. Yeesh. At any rate I think there's enough good targets that it could earn a slot.

[pokken]

So uh, does Zombiemancer confirm that someone from R&D reads this primer? Lol I kid, but praise sweet zombie Jesus its what I've wanted all my life.

Problem is now we've got logjams at 3,4 and 5. Its a real first world problem but still, we've all got some tough choices ahead.

As for Snappy, I see no reason not to run both. The 2 slot is free enough and Snappy is good enough to count as an engine with Reclamation. I'd be a fool to drop it I think.

Rector seems a smoke em if you got em thing. I don't and probably never will own one, that price is bonkers. Last I checked they were like 140 NZD. Yeesh. At any rate I think there's enough good targets that it could earn a slot.

I have seen enough things like Nadir Kraken for Ephara, God of the Polis that I wouldn't be surprised if we had an R&D ghost floating through the forums hehe

Cut Graveborn Muse it's seriously a winmore card. I had a whole post written about it but if you have enough zombies that it's actually good you're winning already and if not it's not going to dig you out any better than Painful Truths would (and that'll let you hit your land drops:P).

[toctheyounger]

So uh, does Zombiemancer confirm that someone from R&D reads this primer? Lol I kid, but praise sweet zombie Jesus its what I've wanted all my life.

Problem is now we've got logjams at 3,4 and 5. Its a real first world problem but still, we've all got some tough choices ahead.

As for Snappy, I see no reason not to run both. The 2 slot is free enough and Snappy is good enough to count as an engine with Reclamation. I'd be a fool to drop it I think.

Rector seems a smoke em if you got em thing. I don't and probably never will own one, that price is bonkers. Last I checked they were like 140 NZD. Yeesh. At any rate I think there's enough good targets that it could earn a slot.

I have seen enough things like Nadir Kraken for Ephara, God of the Polis that I wouldn't be surprised if we had an R&D ghost floating through the forums hehe

Cut Graveborn Muse it's seriously a winmore card. I had a whole post written about it but if you have enough zombies that it's actually good you're winning already and if not it's not going to dig you out any better than Painful Truths would (and that'll let you hit your land drops:P).

You might be right about Muse. The 'if I untap with it' effect is always a gamble. That gives me a slot for Zombiemancer. I'm still on the fence re counterzombie.

[pokken]

I'm still on the fence re counterzombie.

Counter zombie is likely better than Supreme Verdict which is awkward to cast as is (WWU). I do love me some verdict but I certainly can't cast it reliably in my list.

My personal cut for counter zombie is likely to be Reins of Power which is a kinda "goodstuffish" piece that's a relic of when I had another artifact sac outlet.

[toctheyounger]

I'm still on the fence re counterzombie.

Counter zombie is likely better than Supreme Verdict which is awkward to cast as is (WWU). I do love me some verdict but I certainly can't cast it reliably in my list.

My personal cut for counter zombie is likely to be Reins of Power which is a kinda "goodstuffish" piece that's a relic of when I had another artifact sac outlet.

This is the wipe I've been side eyeing for removal, yeah.

[plaganegra]

Played a few games with my Varina deck tonight. I wont do a full report, but I went 1-2 with it. The curve worked out really well and always had things to do. Key takeaways:

Didnt miss the draw doublers at all after removing them for more zombies.

Binding Mummy was critical in my win allowing me to use Varina's token ability to tap down big threats with ease. First time I ever noticed the card and it was a big impact. Don't expect it to be all the time, but a pleasant surprise. Killed one player by tapping down 3 blockers and swinging out. He was playing new liesa which pretty much shuts the deck off from recursion. Once he was dead I was able to drain the rest if the table after regaining death triggers.

One game I lost, was a turn away from winning. Would have won had I found a sac outlet, any sac outlet for Mike + Gary. Were noxious ghoul a grimgrin I would have won that one. Have only been running one altar going to up it to both mana altars.

Edit, I just wanted to elaborate - Liesa, Forgotten Archangel is the general I was up against in my win. Varina's cycle ability dodges the exile, and being able to create tokens with her ability alongside binding mummy was how I controlled the board and ultimately won. I was forced to play extremely fairly that game, hard casting every zombie and could not use a board wipe without losing everything.

[pokken]

Played a few games with my Varina deck tonight. I wont do a full report, but I went 1-2 with it. The curve worked out really well and always had things to do. Key takeaways:

Didnt miss the draw doublers at all after removing them for more zombies.

Binding Mummy was critical in my win allowing me to use Varina's token ability to tap down big threats with ease. First time I ever noticed the card and it was a big impact. Don't expect it to be all the time, but a pleasant surprise. Killed one player by tapping down 3 blockers and swinging out. He was playing new liesa which pretty much shuts the deck off from recursion. Once he was dead I was able to drain the rest if the table after regaining death triggers.

One game I lost, was a turn away from winning. Would have won had I found a sac outlet, any sac outlet for Mike + Gary. Were noxious ghoul a grimgrin I would have won that one. Have only been running one altar going to up it to both mana altars.

Binding Mummy is definitely one on my list to try at some point, the ability to get damage through feels reasonable. And 2 drops are really in demand.

I have definitely missed the Ashnod's Altar for mana explosions, I think I need to find more room for it too. That said, you may want to give some thought to slipping Phyrexian Ghoul in. I've been pretty surprised at how nasty the Nantuko Husk effects are - I had a game where I bashed someone for 16 with one when they didn't block it wound up draining the entire table for a bunch and reanimating to close out the game. Being able to push lethal damage with your sac outlets is cool.

[RedCheese]

I always been an advocate for Binding Mummy . Low cost zombie with a decent ability is well welcome in the deck and really like the synergy with Varinna's token making ability.

[yeti1069]

Don't forget the Mummy can also two artifacts. You can use it to slow someone down by making a token in their upkeep to tap a mana rock.

[plaganegra]

Played a few games with my Varina deck tonight. I wont do a full report, but I went 1-2 with it. The curve worked out really well and always had things to do. Key takeaways:

Didnt miss the draw doublers at all after removing them for more zombies.

Binding Mummy was critical in my win allowing me to use Varina's token ability to tap down big threats with ease. First time I ever noticed the card and it was a big impact. Don't expect it to be all the time, but a pleasant surprise. Killed one player by tapping down 3 blockers and swinging out. He was playing new liesa which pretty much shuts the deck off from recursion. Once he was dead I was able to drain the rest if the table after regaining death triggers.

One game I lost, was a turn away from winning. Would have won had I found a sac outlet, any sac outlet for Mike + Gary. Were noxious ghoul a grimgrin I would have won that one. Have only been running one altar going to up it to both mana altars.

Binding Mummy is definitely one on my list to try at some point, the ability to get damage through feels reasonable. And 2 drops are really in demand.

I have definitely missed the Ashnod's Altar for mana explosions, I think I need to find more room for it too. That said, you may want to give some thought to slipping Phyrexian Ghoul in. I've been pretty surprised at how nasty the Nantuko Husk effects are - I had a game where I bashed someone for 16 with one when they didn't block it wound up draining the entire table for a bunch and reanimating to close out the game. Being able to push lethal damage with your sac outlets is cool.

Good points! I am always terrified of saccing everything for an alpha strike with something like phyrexian ghoul because a removal spell can so easily ruin my day. But it is definitely a consideration just for the sac outlet alone, can always read the room to see how much you can risk with an attack like that.

[Reya]

With all the stuff we have now, we have to make room !

How many mass reanimation spell and how many board wipe do you run ? I play:

- Twilight's Call
- Living Death
- Zombie Apocalypse
- Patriarch's Bidding
- Toxic Deluge
- Damn

I think it will be wise to cut one mass reanimation spell to incorporate Repository Skaab (the cut will obviously be Twilight's Call in my list). Skaab will allow us to easely make reanimation loops. Bringing back a mana drain will be fantastic too. I will certainly Cuty Epiphany at the drownyard to integrate Overcharged Amalgam (We have already enough draw options and Epiphany is not realy relevant. Holding mana for a flashy zombie can be great, and we will be even able to counter some annoying ETB trigger when we mass reanimate opponents graveyard. You can counter ultimates from PWs too, and so many other things). I can only imagine Amalgam as a very good inclusion.

[pokken]

With all the stuff we have now, we have to make room !

How many mass reanimation spell and how many board wipe do you run ? I play:

- Twilight's Call
- Living Death
- Zombie Apocalypse
- Patriarch's Bidding
- Toxic Deluge
- Damn

I run:
Instant speed mass reanimation - because I run a lot more sac outlets than most these cards are pretty nasty (and also ramp).

• Cosmic Intervention
• Faith's Reward

Just mass reanimation

• Zombie Apocalypse
• Twilight's Call
• Patriarch's Bidding

Sweepers

• Living Death
• Winds of Abandon

Honorable Mention

• Dictate of Erebos

I don't think this is a Toxic Deluge or Damn deck personally. Rarely do I find a board state that I can't fix with one of the above cards. I'd rather try to go over the top of decks with problematic creature board states (e.g. draining them out, garying/shepherding them, etc.), or get them with an effect that preserves my board state (Living Death / Winds of Abandon).

I'd probably play Decree of Pain if I actually wanted a creature based board wipe.

[yeti1069]

I think the ability of this deck to wipe the board and then recover better is a strength here.

[Reya]

Toxic Deluge and Damn are very versatiles wipes. Toxic Deluge is probably one of the best wipe in EDH, it dodges Gaddock and get ride of everything. You can easely regain the loss of life through the game. Same for Damn, dodges gaddock and can sometimes save you if you need to kill a particular target sooner.

I don't like effect like Winds of Abandon that are very expensive and ramp your opponent like hell. It's nice to exile everything but 6 mana and ramping all opponents boards seems not very sexy !

[pokken]

Toxic Deluge and Damn are very versatiles wipes. Toxic Deluge is probably one of the best wipe in EDH, it dodges Gaddock and get ride of everything. You can easely regain the loss of life through the game. Same for Damn, dodges gaddock and can sometimes save you if you need to kill a particular target sooner.

I don't like effect like Winds of Abandon that are very expensive and ramp your opponent like hell. It's nice to exile everything but 6 mana and ramping all opponents boards seems not very sexy !

I mean, I know Toxic Deluge is a good card. I'm not blind or anything. I just don't think it's good enough good stuff to bother with something that isn't somewhat synergistic. I just don't ever want to be wrathing my own Varina, Lich Queen if she's on board, personally.

Winds of Abandon dodges Teeg too and frees you up for an alphastrike that kills that player. That's the jam. I would play it before either damn or deluge personally.

Symmetrical wipes are *fine* in this deck, but I don't see their value all that much; you can usually either 1) use a one sided wipe, 2) go over top of them and just win with a mass reanimation spell. There are enough asymmetrical wipes to play. If I had a spare Cyclonic Rift I'd definitely play that first too.

[toctheyounger]

Hmmm, this is an interesting thought. Deluge is always going to get our guys first, and while that doesn't always matter sometimes it does. It certainly means we're having to dig deeper than we'd like to wipe the board. I couldn't fault anyone for running or not running but I can see why itd be a tougher proposition than we'd like.

Personally I consider Living Death to be part of both suites. It wipes and reanimates. And in many ways its the strongest of the wipes too. It'll cut through hexproof and indestructible and still serve our game plan pretty well. Between this and Noxious Ghoul this is the basis for me watching to shave down wipes myself.

As far as reanimates go I'm most keen to cut Twilight's Call. Both modalities are expensive, and I'm really interested to try Pyrrhic Revival anyway. I think there's a fairly good chance it'll either act more like a selective board wipe for our opponents, or get us some cherry on top death triggers. As well as that its very nice with Mike.

[pokken]

Hmmm, this is an interesting thought. Deluge is always going to get our guys first, and while that doesn't always matter sometimes it does. It certainly means we're having to dig deeper than we'd like to wipe the board. I couldn't fault anyone for running or not running but I can see why itd be a tougher proposition than we'd like.

Personally I consider Living Death to be part of both suites. It wipes and reanimates. And in many ways its the strongest of the wipes too. It'll cut through hexproof and indestructible and still serve our game plan pretty well. Between this and Noxious Ghoul this is the basis for me watching to shave down wipes myself.

As far as reanimates go I'm most keen to cut Twilight's Call. Both modalities are expensive, and I'm really interested to try Pyrrhic Revival anyway. I think there's a fairly good chance it'll either act more like a selective board wipe for our opponents, or get us some cherry on top death triggers. As well as that its very nice with Mike.

I'd agree Living Death is both suites. really, this deck does so many things that make symmetrical wipes largely pointless unless they are getting rid of problem permanents (Rest in Peace) for example, and even then it's pretty rare for you not to be able to kill someone with either drain or combat.

Twilight's Call as an instant speed reanimate, even for 8, feels like it's too good to me. for me Pyrrhic Revival would hose me too hard because of the emphasis on a high number of Skullclamp creatures. But I could definitely see it if you're running beefier creatures.

[toctheyounger]

Hmmm, this is an interesting thought. Deluge is always going to get our guys first, and while that doesn't always matter sometimes it does. It certainly means we're having to dig deeper than we'd like to wipe the board. I couldn't fault anyone for running or not running but I can see why itd be a tougher proposition than we'd like.

Personally I consider Living Death to be part of both suites. It wipes and reanimates. And in many ways its the strongest of the wipes too. It'll cut through hexproof and indestructible and still serve our game plan pretty well. Between this and Noxious Ghoul this is the basis for me watching to shave down wipes myself.

As far as reanimates go I'm most keen to cut Twilight's Call. Both modalities are expensive, and I'm really interested to try Pyrrhic Revival anyway. I think there's a fairly good chance it'll either act more like a selective board wipe for our opponents, or get us some cherry on top death triggers. As well as that its very nice with Mike.

I'd agree Living Death is both suites. really, this deck does so many things that make symmetrical wipes largely pointless unless they are getting rid of problem permanents (Rest in Peace) for example, and even then it's pretty rare for you not to be able to kill someone with either drain or combat.

Twilight's Call as an instant speed reanimate, even for 8, feels like it's too good to me. for me Pyrrhic Revival would hose me too hard because of the emphasis on a high number of Skullclamp creatures. But I could definitely see it if you're running beefier creatures.

Well I mean our lords help. Theres less of those in most lists these days but not none. Still I get how it'd hose you if you're that low to the ground. I think its possible to work around it to some degree, although I've yet to test it. My hope, anyway, is that it ends up acting like a reanimate plus Exsanguinate after triggers resolve. Get some ETBs followed by some LTBs and just see who's left once the dust settles lol.

[pokken]

Well I mean our lords help. Theres less of those in most lists these days but not none. Still I get how it'd hose you if you're that low to the ground. I think its possible to work around it to some degree, although I've yet to test it. My hope, anyway, is that it ends up acting like a reanimate plus Exsanguinate after triggers resolve. Get some ETBs followed by some LTBs and just see who's left once the dust settles lol.

I could see that. I feel like the upside of the -1/-1 is likely to be a lot less than the upside of occasionally casting as an instant, but it's probably worth trying

(part of my bias might be because I run so many sac outlets though, so I don't worry about needing to kill my own dudes)

[toctheyounger]

Well I mean our lords help. Theres less of those in most lists these days but not none. Still I get how it'd hose you if you're that low to the ground. I think its possible to work around it to some degree, although I've yet to test it. My hope, anyway, is that it ends up acting like a reanimate plus Exsanguinate after triggers resolve. Get some ETBs followed by some LTBs and just see who's left once the dust settles lol.

I could see that. I feel like the upside of the -1/-1 is likely to be a lot less than the upside of occasionally casting as an instant, but it's probably worth trying

I'll report back when I can. I wanna get some game time in today if I can to test out the new adds so I might just try swapping in Revival for call and see if I can get it humming.

If it does work its gonna be bonkers with Necroduality too.