The Shattered Realm: Creative

[folding_music]

Ideally the name of the plane should be relatively short, no longer than 12 characters long, easy to pronounce, and fairly easy to remember. Any suggestions?

I was thinking of airy sounding fantasy words, like Alloom (or Allume), or names from teh real world, like Lowry, which have no hard consonants... Thalakos and Dauthi are so breathy to pronounce, Soltari is lyrical and I feel like one of these three groups probably named the plane.

trying not to steal already established fantasy names like Pellucidar or Numenor but that's the sort of mouth shape I'd aim for?

maybe this is all rambling giggle

[Krishnath]

Ideally the name of the plane should be relatively short, no longer than 12 characters long, easy to pronounce, and fairly easy to remember. Any suggestions?

I was thinking of airy sounding fantasy words, like Alloom (or Allume), or names from teh real world, like Lowry, which have no hard consonants... Thalakos and Dauthi are so breathy to pronounce, Soltari is lyrical and I feel like one of these three groups probably named the plane.

trying not to steal already established fantasy names like Pellucidar or Numenor but that's the sort of mouth shape I'd aim for?

maybe this is all rambling giggle

Alloom is nice, it's short, easy to pronounce, and easy to remember.

Alloom: The Shattered World

Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

Lowry, while a good name is kinda terrible, as it sounds awfully similar to Lorwyn, and is spelled similarly. >.<

We have a lot of good suggestions now, but if anyone else has any suggestions, feel free to share them. We don't have to chose right now.

[Venedrex]

Lots of fantastic thoughts here, super stoked with what ya'll have been dreaming up!

[Venedrex]

Ideally the name of the plane should be relatively short, no longer than 12 characters long, easy to pronounce, and fairly easy to remember. Any suggestions?

I was thinking of airy sounding fantasy words, like Alloom (or Allume), or names from teh real world, like Lowry, which have no hard consonants... Thalakos and Dauthi are so breathy to pronounce, Soltari is lyrical and I feel like one of these three groups probably named the plane.

trying not to steal already established fantasy names like Pellucidar or Numenor but that's the sort of mouth shape I'd aim for?

maybe this is all rambling giggle

We're on the same exact page lol!

So based on that, I would tend to lean more towards Aegeas or Talirean than Bristmar. Or even fusing the two: Alirean.

Don't know why but that sounds sky like to me. Something like that I guess.

[Feyd_Ruin]

I really like Alirean. It feels airy and light, but still strong like a world's name.
(For those that find such interesting, it also keeps the Gaelic root word ìrean, which means levels/stages.)

So we have Heirarchal God-Centric Soltari, Aristocratic Ambition-Driven Dauthi, and Semi-Nomadic Bonded Elves.

We still need to dive a bit into Thalakos culture and Viashino Culture.
What kind of government or social order do they have? What are their society's values? What's a day in their life like?

[Venedrex]

One thought I had the other night about the three races was how they each represent the sky in a way. I know that is pretty obvious already, but even in terms of color pie I think the flavor of these creature types is spot on.

For instance, the Soltari are primarily white mana aligned, and they represent the light that fills the sky, specifically sunlight.

The Thalakos represent the water in the air and the air itself, as in storms and tempests, being blue mana aligned.

While finally the Dauthi represent the darkness of the sky, being black mana aligned.

When put together, these three creature types result in Esper colors, which is the only three color pair other than possibly Jeskai that is most likely to have flying creatures. This provides a fascinating contrast to our other major sentient races who are found in the colors of mana that are least associated with flight (with the exception of dragons and rarely phoenixes), green and red. Additionally, green and red are the colors of mana that I would argue are most associated with the ground and or rock.

As far as the culture of the Thalakos, I could imagine it being a culture revolving around either science, magic, or both. In other words, I picture most members of Thalakos society spending their days doing something related to academic studies, such as researching weather patterns or mastering spells to control the weather, or making bigger and better humunculi.

Viashino culture might be centered around exploration, battle, and glory, with successful raiders forging powerful alliances among (thrashes? clans? another word specific to this plane for groups of Viashino?).

Just my random thoughts.

[Krishnath]

I like Alirean as well.

"Alirean: The Shattered Realm" does have a nice ring to it.

As for the Thalakos: I always thought that the Thalakos being literally in the middle of the Soltari (Day) and Dauthi (Night) represented Twilight. Which would also reflect where they lived, in the dusky middle area of the Shattered Realm, where the light levels are somewhat lower than near the top. I see them as a race of Sages and Mages who are obsessed with acquiring knowledge for the sake of knowledge, but without hoarding it jealously. Offer them a book, a map, or document of some sort, and they let you peruse their libraries without issue. Their obsession with acquiring knowledge borders on insanity, and it is not unusual for Thalakos to develop different kinds of mental health issues during their lifetime. I imagine their society being similar to the many orders of monks and nuns of the middle ages in structure. Each community having an elected leader who is among the most well read of their number, with a new one elected when the old one dies. They build grand libraries surrounded by smaller stone buildings in which they live. It is common for Thalakos to have a small private library in their homes, containing works on their favorite subjects. It is also common for them to have small laboratories in their homes in which they experiment to acquire new knowledge. This is especially true if the Thalakos in question has an interest in artifice or alchemy.
The Thalakos create humunculus servants to take care of their daily needs, and to act as a basic militia to protect their towns and villages from external threats. They also have a long standing alliance with the planes local Sphinx population, providing the Spinx with a lair (and free access to knowledge) in exchange for protecting their libraries. It is not unusual for a pair of Sphinxes to raise their young in the Thalakos's libraries.
The Thalakos seek knowledge for the sake of knowledge, and worship a deity that does the same.

[Feyd_Ruin]

They build grand libraries surrounded by smaller stone buildings in which they live

This is why I love collab work. This is absolutely not the direction I had in my mind, at all, but it is utterly beautiful and I love it.

Random idea for kobolds:
The kobolds of Alirean are vicious, all-consuming critters who have no love for anything beyond themselves and, only somewhat, their own kind. What they lack in size they make up for in numbers. They move into a driftrock and eat everything in sight. Plants, animals, anything that's digestible by their putrid stomachs. Then they hide in the shadows and crevices hoping for anything to land on the rock, like spiders upon a web. Drakes, Aven, climbing beasts; anything that lands there is overrun by gnawing, clawing, biting kobolds that swarm their unsuspecting prey. Once a driftrock has run its purpose they move on to another, often making absurd jumps even when many of them will fall to their deaths trying. Their life cycle is fast, and they are seen as locusts upon the land.

[Legend]

Random idea for kobolds:
The kobolds of Alirean are vicious, all-consuming critters who have no love for anything beyond themselves and, only somewhat, their own kind. What they lack in size they make up for in numbers. They move into a driftrock and eat everything in sight. Plants, animals, anything that's digestible by their putrid stomachs. Then they hide in the shadows and crevices hoping for anything to land on the rock, like spiders upon a web. Drakes, Aven, climbing beasts; anything that lands there is overrun by gnawing, clawing, biting kobolds that swarm their unsuspecting prey. Once a driftrock has run its purpose they move on to another, often making absurd jumps even when many of them will fall to their deaths trying. Their life cycle is fast, and they are seen as locusts upon the land.

Sounds exactly like Gremlins.

[Feyd_Ruin]

I took their existing lore and just amplified it, really: Kobolds seem to be incredibly resilient since they survived for centuries in their lair, unafflicted by the disasters that ravaged the other parts of Dominaria. For this, Teferi compared them to cockroaches. Entire regions were destroyed by the kobolds, but not because of their superior battle tactics - when kobolds are hungry enough, they will eat anything that isn't made of rock. But we can go a different direction, I just like tossing ideas out and seeing what sticks.

[Krishnath]

I kinda like the idea of near mindless kobolds that swarm and consume. Considered by most sapient races as more of a natural disaster or a plague of vermin that needs to be dealt with immediately than another sapient race.

[dangerousdice]

should Alirean have lhurgoyfs?

EDIT: I made a lore snippet for them!

"the spider-like lhurgoyf's are revered by the elves, as they are believed to be their god's offspring, and are normally around half the size of a normal elf. upon ingesting large amounts of mana, they transform into a voracious, ever-expanding vortex of hunger and flesh... before collapsing back into their normal, smaller forms."

EDIT 2: wait a minute, lemme read this...

EDIT 3: I didnt mean for a major part of the set, but as a thing in the lore, with probably only 1-2 in the set.

[void_nothing]

I kinda like the idea of near mindless kobolds that swarm and consume. Considered by most sapient races as more of a natural disaster or a plague of vermin that needs to be dealt with immediately than another sapient race.

That's a good way to distinguish them from Goblins as we normally see them, who always have some kind of society even if they're, well, not very smart.

should Alirean have lhurgoyfs?

Not in mass numbers? I'm sure if we had a creature that had variable p/t based on something in the graveyard we could flavor it as a Lhurgoyf, but the nature of the mechanical associations with the creature type make anything more than a cycle unsustainable.

--

Everyone seemed to like and run with my vague concept for the Dauthi so here are my outlines for the Soltari and Thalakos.

Soltari: Holy-warrior types who have a distinct version of the Tales of Life from the Rathi abductee population - actually it should probably be titled something different as well because of how divergent the two civilizations would be at this point given the amount of time that must have passed between the initial Phyrexian abductions and the vague present time Alirean: The Shattered Realm would be set in. The Soltari religion feels like it should be founded on the practical but pious, no-nonsense survival advice of the ancestors and gods. I worry that this comes off too much like Zendikari Kor despite the fact that our Soltari would probably live in cities.

Thalakos: The most advanced (magically and/or technologically) race on the plane, with a fixation with being left alone and hidden. Imagine Gondolin from the Silmarillion. I don't actually have a lot other than this, unless we want to go the complete opposite route and have them be an open culture that is constantly trading and communicating with others, to, once again, contrast with the seemingly isolationist Thalakos in Rath's Shadows.

[SecretInfiltrator]

Sounds exactly like Gremlins.

Now I wish they were Atgos, because that's how they look to me in my mind. Just a whole flood of them.

I kinda like the idea of near mindless kobolds that swarm and consume.

Speaking of which, I thought of going a similar route with the Faeries. The idea that they are colorful and luminous makes me think of them as the krill of the sky-ocean, entire swarms of them consumed by a passing Leviathan.

Speaking of which, I want to propose a rule for our sky-fauna that while it can be based on anything in the ocean, we might want to except marine mammals - both to keep things distinct from Kaladesh and to emphasize more alien creatures.

Alirean: The Shattered Realm

Am I the only one who thinks the world should be Alirea? Alirean sounds like what I'd call an inhabitant.

SPOILER

Show

Hide

Tales of Life

Don't assume I know any of this. It appears in flavor text.

Imagine Gondolin from the Silmarillion.

I imagine Venice, but the channels are filled with lava and the sky eternally blackened by the ashes propelled into the sky by volcanic forces. The populace a race of corpulent beings with spindly but muscular limbs used to crawl naked through the sweltering heat. But that's just a guess based on the name. Am I close?

---

I want to point out that we don't need to create racially pure ethno-states. We're not on Rath. We might want to think about the social structure beyond races e. g. it seems like the open space between Steadfasts would be a natural border to a kingdom/city state, though maybe the hierarchical/religious Soltari civilization is united under a crown or two, considers smaller rocks provinces. So maybe the cultures need names. I could imagine we need a few Dauthi "houses" since they would value their independence and individual reputation. Humans might be the merchants and travelers, and captain airships that are racially diverse and basically sovereign entities, often build around the buoyancy of a smaller Driftrock to begin with. Thalakos Academies would also compete in their renown, but attract all kinds of people.

What do the people of the world feel about each other? What vices and virtues are associated with Viashino and Dauthi? What does one value or fear about an Elf or Human? What criticism would a Soltari be first to levy against their own?

I imagine Soltari might be fine architects, actually building artificial permanent bridges and clever irrigation systems to help bring water that rains plentifully on lower levels up onto their farmlands. Soltari build to last and it is said their mortar might mend the Shattered Realms, which is both praise but also condemnation by those who fear oppression. Anyway their artisans travel deep and have their hands in constructions all over the plane.

Viashino territories are vast and don't need to be interconnected since even those who cannot fly yet are proficient enough climbers to leap across gaps in the geography. It is a risk to build on a supposedly unclaimed rock, because dragonfire melts all and will flare up against unwary settlers. Few outsiders can run with a thrash, but those who can endure the taxing journey of their nomadic lifestyle might become accepted. Though Viashino will never fully lose the feeling of pity for the races forever stuck in their wingless larva form.

[folding_music]

If the various Soltari, Thalakos, Dauthi and Viashino peoples of Alirean aren't at war and they aren't enduring any sort of natural turmoil then they don't need to be caricatures and grotesques, right? The Soltari can be strict Aztec-like visionary builders and religious worshippers without being zealots, the Thalakos can be knowledge sponges without wandering around saying "book book book book book" etc

iconography for the Thalakos could be a caged candle, signifying awareness that vast reserves of knowledge left unapplied are worthless. What I do like from Krishnath's description is their tendency to give tuition to outsiders, and I'd like to focus on that more than the great library building part, particularly if they're instructing humans in the ways of the realm, turning them into diplomats, artificers and artists - people who'll contribute to the culture. We can try to make the Thalakos the unCephalids, if you see what I mean.

Also agree with SecretInfiltrator that these people should intermingle!

We might want to think about what's happening on the plane at the time the set visits it? I feel like we've mostly discussed creatures rather than events!

[SecretInfiltrator]

That's why I hope we can talk about some conflict within the societies we discussed. Those give rise to plot.

I feel the Dauthi could feature a solid assassination intrigue and the Viashino and Kobolds can be any of an external threat or unlikely solution. Do we want to feature planeswalkers? Would they be catalysts to a conflict already brewing on the plane. What resource is cscarce on the plane? Who wants societal change? Who opposes them?

[Legend]

I took their existing lore and just amplified it . . .

That's cool.
TLDR: Devil's advocacy.
But isn't that flavor expressed mechanically in a purely tribal fashion that's unique to the Kobold type - that is as either lords or zero ones? It'll be a TALL order to create novel designs that don't abandon that distinct, Kobold mechanical identity, without them just being goblins in disguise. Unless goblins in disguise is acceptable.

[Krishnath]

@SecretInfiltrator Agreed with the wildlife, avoiding airborne variants of aquatic mammals could give the plane a distinct feel. Large fish and birds can fill their role without issue, well, that and leviathan. I also like the comparison of the faeries to krill. They are tiny, colorful, and don't live long, and are usually consumed by various animals (predators and omnivores alike). It's not that they are unintelligent, they just don't really live long enough to become focused enough on one thing to really build a society or culture. They simply are, living for the moment.

I am also in favor of dropping the "n" from the name of the plane. It is not really needed, and the name "Alirea" flows better of the tongue. "Alirean" sounds more like someone native to the plane.

I think there should be some conflict between the races, but not open warfare. The Dauthi and Soltari really hate each other due to both their similarities and differences, but since they live so far from each other, topographically speaking, other than a few skirmishes over resources in the twilight realms, it hasn't really devolved to full out warfare between the two. The Thalakos on the other hand, really dislike the secrecy of the elves, after all, what is the point of knowledge if you don't share it? The xenophobic and migratory elves on the other hand, don't really pay the Thalakos much mind.
The Viashino on the other hand, raid pretty much everyone equally.

For the driving conflict, I have a suggestion:

A great Chief/Khan/Warlord has risen among the Viashino, who have unified many previously rivaling tribes, which in turn has increased the frequency and ferocity of their raids on the other races.

And finally, on the topic of planeswalkers: Yes, and yes. The set, while not necessarily needing planeswalkers, would benefit greatly from it. Both as protagonists and antagonists, or even as just viewpoint characters. Two to four of them should suffice, and not all of them need to be native. Indeed, I would argue that no more than half, at the most, should be native.

[Venedrex]

I kinda like the idea of near mindless kobolds that swarm and consume. Considered by most sapient races as more of a natural disaster or a plague of vermin that needs to be dealt with immediately than another sapient race.

That's a good way to distinguish them from Goblins as we normally see them, who always have some kind of society even if they're, well, not very smart.

should Alirean have lhurgoyfs?

Not in mass numbers? I'm sure if we had a creature that had variable p/t based on something in the graveyard we could flavor it as a Lhurgoyf, but the nature of the mechanical associations with the creature type make anything more than a cycle unsustainable.

--

Everyone seemed to like and run with my vague concept for the Dauthi so here are my outlines for the Soltari and Thalakos.

Soltari: Holy-warrior types who have a distinct version of the Tales of Life from the Rathi abductee population - actually it should probably be titled something different as well because of how divergent the two civilizations would be at this point given the amount of time that must have passed between the initial Phyrexian abductions and the vague present time Alirean: The Shattered Realm would be set in. The Soltari religion feels like it should be founded on the practical but pious, no-nonsense survival advice of the ancestors and gods. I worry that this comes off too much like Zendikari Kor despite the fact that our Soltari would probably live in cities.

Thalakos: The most advanced (magically and/or technologically) race on the plane, with a fixation with being left alone and hidden. Imagine Gondolin from the Silmarillion. I don't actually have a lot other than this, unless we want to go the complete opposite route and have them be an open culture that is constantly trading and communicating with others, to, once again, contrast with the seemingly isolationist Thalakos in Rath's Shadows.

One way of distinguishing the Soltari and the Kor could be to make the Soltari somewhat enchantment focused, versus the Kor's focus on artifacts and equipment.

[dangerousdice]

I kinda like the idea of near mindless kobolds that swarm and consume. Considered by most sapient races as more of a natural disaster or a plague of vermin that needs to be dealt with immediately than another sapient race.

That's a good way to distinguish them from Goblins as we normally see them, who always have some kind of society even if they're, well, not very smart.

should Alirean have lhurgoyfs?

Not in mass numbers? I'm sure if we had a creature that had variable p/t based on something in the graveyard we could flavor it as a Lhurgoyf, but the nature of the mechanical associations with the creature type make anything more than a cycle unsustainable.

--

Everyone seemed to like and run with my vague concept for the Dauthi so here are my outlines for the Soltari and Thalakos.

Soltari: Holy-warrior types who have a distinct version of the Tales of Life from the Rathi abductee population - actually it should probably be titled something different as well because of how divergent the two civilizations would be at this point given the amount of time that must have passed between the initial Phyrexian abductions and the vague present time Alirean: The Shattered Realm would be set in. The Soltari religion feels like it should be founded on the practical but pious, no-nonsense survival advice of the ancestors and gods. I worry that this comes off too much like Zendikari Kor despite the fact that our Soltari would probably live in cities.

Thalakos: The most advanced (magically and/or technologically) race on the plane, with a fixation with being left alone and hidden. Imagine Gondolin from the Silmarillion. I don't actually have a lot other than this, unless we want to go the complete opposite route and have them be an open culture that is constantly trading and communicating with others, to, once again, contrast with the seemingly isolationist Thalakos in Rath's Shadows.

One way of distinguishing the Soltari and the Kor could be to make the Soltari somewhat enchantment focused, versus the Kor's focus on artifacts and equipment.

I think the elves would be a better fit for an enchantment focused faction, as (I believe) enchantments are often described as "woven" from mana, and with the elves worshipping a spider, I think that would also be cool!

[Venedrex]

That does sound cool. I like the idea of making weaving a part of the elf lore and flavor, since as you mentioned it fits so well with the elves relationship to spiders.

[dangerousdice]

I came up with a soltari planeswalker based on @Feyd_Ruin's concept for their religion!

it's my first draft for his backstory, and I'm not completely happy with it, but I thought I'd show you guys!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"a day unlike any other has occurred among the soltari..."

the Hrain's preists charted what page would be read, and what those born on the next day would be in life.

with growing confusion, they realized that the page that was to be read didnt exist. they rechecked their calcutions, and rechecked, and rechecked, before deciding that it was Hrain's will that those born the next day had no destiny.

through-out the following day, only one child was born. that child was named volanii, which roughly translates to "life-less".

he became shunned by other soltari, and he was seen as someone who was cursed by god himself.

during a viashano raid, he tripped and fell several miles, before landing in a elven community, who welcomed him in. now he has a family who truly loves him.

a few years later, he traveled to the soltari capital with his new family, to celebrate a important festival. the viashano raided the city, after realizing most of the city's guards were celebrating the festival. Volanii's sparked in the ensuing carnage, flinging him away from danger.

when he found his way back to arilea, he found out that his family was captured by the viashano raiders and were being held for ransom.

he joined a group of other soltari who were planning a rescue mission, and they are currently preparing to scale their fortress, and free their families.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

he is primarily , and is secondarily . their mechanical identity is built around enchantments, and he has the ability to "reweave" enchantments.

[Krishnath]

I like Volanii's backstory.

[SecretInfiltrator]

Tie the Viashino raiders into the story of:

A great Chief/Khan/Warlord has risen among the Viashino, who have unified many previously rivaling tribes, which in turn has increased the frequency and ferocity of their raids on the other races.

and Volanii is well-positioned in an ongoing conflict.

Interestingly I feel secondary colors for Soltari and Elves would make them {W}{R} and {G}{B} respectively in this setting. That would make the planeswalker bridging the colors quite significant.

Maybe both Soltari and Elves can both dip into enchantments if that becomes a common mechanical theme of the set.

[Krishnath]

Tie the Viashino raiders into the story of:

A great Chief/Khan/Warlord has risen among the Viashino, who have unified many previously rivaling tribes, which in turn has increased the frequency and ferocity of their raids on the other races.

and Volanii is well-positioned in an ongoing conflict.

Interestingly I feel secondary colors for Soltari and Elves would make them {W}{R} and {G}{B} respectively in this setting. That would make the planeswalker bridging the colors quite significant.

Maybe both Soltari and Elves can both dip into enchantments if that becomes a common mechanical theme of the set.

I was thinking the same, however that is more of a discussion for the mechanics thread when it is made, but it is a very good idea and one we should make note of. Maybe would could tie one of the two to enchantments in general (possibly the elves, with an enchantress variant that makes spider tokens instead of drawing cards?), while the other is more focused on auras? This also ties in nicely with the culture and religion of both races.