Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[Rframpt]

I think you curve @Zed117. There are certainly some cards I think could be cut for lower CMC creatures, but I don't really know what you prefer as a play style for the deck. I focus in on being a bit more aggro in the early turns with my annoying creatures that can come back if requirements are met. Depending on the speed you like your deck to play at and the general tempo of games in your meta, being a bit of a slower reanimator style deck might suit your playstyle and meta just fine.
if you are more on the reanimator plan I might suggest adding Putrid Imp as a way to get the big CMC creatures in the yard for reanimation. Putrid Imp can also be a bit of a combo with Lazotep Chancellor + an aristocats Zombie Wayward Servant for the ETB's and/or Vengeful Dead + Ashnod's Altar / Phyrexian Altar + Kindred Discovery. As you keep discarding cards, making an army token, drawing a card, aristocats triggers, sacfricing the token for mana to feed the mana into Lazotep Chancellor to start the process all over again.

I think you might get more enjoyment out of Necromancy over Animate Dead. The instant speed can sometimes be a life save for some emergency blocking, setting up a combo or simply to steal from another reanimator at the table. it has certainly helped me, when people see me discarding Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant, big alarms tend to go off for them. and Necromancy can instant speed pull him back again for a board whip for four total mana.

[pokken]

Skullclamp also works with putrid imp and Lazotep chancellor. Think I did a little write up on skullclamp at one point. But it enables a whole different angle of combos (or positive interactions as well) that let you turn discard outlets into value. Zombie Infestation and Putrid Imp have both proven good for me there.

[Zed117]

I think you curve @Zed117. There are certainly some cards I think could be cut for lower CMC creatures, but I don't really know what you prefer as a play style for the deck. I focus in on being a bit more aggro in the early turns with my annoying creatures that can come back if requirements are met. Depending on the speed you like your deck to play at and the general tempo of games in your meta, being a bit of a slower reanimator style deck might suit your playstyle and meta just fine.
if you are more on the reanimator plan I might suggest adding Putrid Imp as a way to get the big CMC creatures in the yard for reanimation. Putrid Imp can also be a bit of a combo with Lazotep Chancellor + an aristocats Zombie Wayward Servant for the ETB's and/or Vengeful Dead + Ashnod's Altar / Phyrexian Altar + Kindred Discovery. As you keep discarding cards, making an army token, drawing a card, aristocats triggers, sacfricing the token for mana to feed the mana into Lazotep Chancellor to start the process all over again.

I think you might get more enjoyment out of Necromancy over Animate Dead. The instant speed can sometimes be a life save for some emergency blocking, setting up a combo or simply to steal from another reanimator at the table. it has certainly helped me, when people see me discarding Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant, big alarms tend to go off for them. and Necromancy can instant speed pull him back again for a board whip for four total mana.

Yeah I can cut sidisi undead vizier and vile entomber for some lower cmc cost cards. Not as good without repeated recursion and rooftop.
Will cut for Putrid Imp and Putrid Goblin

[Zed117]

Can I cut Archive for Reconnaissance? Yeah the lifegain and draw seems nice, but 5 mana is a lot to ask since I'm not running much ramp outside of Sol Ring/Nykthos/agadeem. Terferi Insight and Kindred Discovery both appear as better options I am already running. On top of Skullclamp and all the draw zombies.

[toctheyounger]

Can I cut Archive for Reconnaissance? Yeah the lifegain and draw seems nice, but 5 mana is a lot to ask since I'm not running much ramp outside of Sol Ring/Nykthos/agadeem. Terferi Insight and Kindred Discovery both appear as better options I am already running. On top of Skullclamp and all the draw zombies.

You could drop Insight too. Discovery is the best of these effects and it's not close. It's not a dead draw without Varina, and that's really good. Only thing to be wary of is snowballing with zombies will draw you out, it's not a may ability. And I will second @pokken's suggestion of Skullclamp, it's worth the slot. Gravecrawler, Poxwalkers and Clamp is a frighteningly good draw package. Zombie Infestation, Ashnod's Altar and Clamp will draw your deck out, sculpt your hand and stack your yard. Card is gross.

I wouldn't worry about missing either Rooftop or Necroduality. Necro is easily the worse of the two, it just isn't enough, and it means taking a turn off and losing a ton of tempo. Not worth it. Rooftop I'm not on, but I can see why some are. It ends games, no doubt of it, but it's also 6 mana in Esper. We don't ramp easy, and there's not enough easy mana in here to make it work all the time. To me, I have enough layered synergies and combos to be happy.

As far as Zombie Master goes, it's understandable why you would cut it, but I think it has its place. With an Urborg, combat is not a risk for you. That doesn't necessarily mean you're killing with combat damage, it just means you're never worried about your dorks getting got. It's often one I will pitch, but if you need favorable swings it can get you there, and zombies aren't really prevalent enough that it'll backfire often.

@pokken I don't at all regret cutting signets. They're bad and hard to use. Every slot that was a signet and is now a zombie I'm infinitely more happy with.

Also, yall keeping an eye on MH3 spoilers? Haven't seen any definite locks for us, but Chthonian Nightmare could do some work here. I definitely want to try it in Tymna/Dargo, but there might be some cool applications for it here too.

[Zed117]

Can I cut Archive for Reconnaissance? Yeah the lifegain and draw seems nice, but 5 mana is a lot to ask since I'm not running much ramp outside of Sol Ring/Nykthos/agadeem. Terferi Insight and Kindred Discovery both appear as better options I am already running. On top of Skullclamp and all the draw zombies.

You could drop Insight too. Discovery is the best of these effects and it's not close. It's not a dead draw without Varina, and that's really good. Only thing to be wary of is snowballing with zombies will draw you out, it's not a may ability. And I will second @pokken's suggestion of Skullclamp, it's worth the slot. Gravecrawler, Poxwalkers and Clamp is a frighteningly good draw package. Zombie Infestation, Ashnod's Altar and Clamp will draw your deck out, sculpt your hand and stack your yard. Card is gross.

I wouldn't worry about missing either Rooftop or Necroduality. Necro is easily the worse of the two, it just isn't enough, and it means taking a turn off and losing a ton of tempo. Not worth it. Rooftop I'm not on, but I can see why some are. It ends games, no doubt of it, but it's also 6 mana in Esper. We don't ramp easy, and there's not enough easy mana in here to make it work all the time. To me, I have enough layered synergies and combos to be happy.

As far as Zombie Master goes, it's understandable why you would cut it, but I think it has its place. With an Urborg, combat is not a risk for you. That doesn't necessarily mean you're killing with combat damage, it just means you're never worried about your dorks getting got. It's often one I will pitch, but if you need favorable swings it can get you there, and zombies aren't really prevalent enough that it'll backfire often.

@pokken I don't at all regret cutting signets. They're bad and hard to use. Every slot that was a signet and is now a zombie I'm infinitely more happy with.

Also, yall keeping an eye on MH3 spoilers? Haven't seen any definite locks for us, but Chthonian Nightmare could do some work here. I definitely want to try it in Tymna/Dargo, but there might be some cool applications for it here too.

Alrighty. Insight and Archive out. Zombie Infestation and Reconnaissance in. Might want to find a slot for necromancy too.

[damens]

For the skullclamp combo you mentioned, I do need a sac outlet right, but how does it go infinite? I was looking for that skullclamp write up but couldn't find it.

[pokken]

For the skullclamp combo you mentioned, I do need a sac outlet right, but how does it go infinite? I was looking for that skullclamp write up but couldn't find it.

couple bits on skullclamp
viewtopic.php?p=175794&hilit=varina+sku ... ts#p175794
viewtopic.php?p=175071&hilit=skullclamp#p175071


At a high level there are a few simple combos/interactions:
Varina, Lich Queen + Skullclamp + Ashnod's Altar lets you draw cards equal to the number of cards in you graveyard at a cost of 1:draw 2
- spend 2 to make a zombie
- spend 1 to equip it
- sac it to Ashnod's Altar and draw 2

infinite
Zombie Infestation + Ashnod's Altar + Skullclamp is infinite self-mill + nearly limitless colorless mana; you can make go off by flashing back Sevinne's Reclamation or Dread Return to get a drain zombie in play mid-way through

Lazotep Chancellor + Putrid Imp + Ashnod's Altar + Skullclamp generates infinite draw

There are a variety of riffs on this--having something that makes an extra zombie or a draw doubler or almost anything can take it over the top.

The zombie infestation line can win without any flashback spells as well by casting Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and then casting Corpse Knight once they have hit the bin (but that does take 5 mana).

Anything that makes a second zombie + Gravecrawler and Phyrexian Altar can also draw your deck with Skullclamp, so it can act as drain piece.

In general, skullclamp gets worse the fewer sac outlets you play but it is straight up worth it for the interaction with Gravecrawler alone.

--

Another rather funny subtle combo people don't usually remember is Liliana's Standard Bearer + Haakon, Stromgald Scourge + <buttloads of black mana or an altar. I did the math for you that with Ashnod's Altar you can go from just those two cards in the bin to drawing your deck. I like that one a lot because no one expects it.

[pzbw7z]

For the skullclamp combo you mentioned, I do need a sac outlet right, but how does it go infinite? I was looking for that skullclamp write up but couldn't find it.

To combo with Zombie Infestation, a sacrifice outlet is indeed necessary. It's limited by the amount of cards in the library.

Discard two cards to Z.I., create a 2/2 Zombie token, attach Skullclamp, sacrifice the Zombie, draw two cards from Skullclamp. Rinse and repeat.

This fills the 'yard which facilitates multiple shenanigans and the sacrifice outlet can provide value itself; Phyrexian Altar or Ashnod's Altar make mana, Carrion Feeder gets huge, etc.

Corpse Knight or Wayward Servant, et al can do work here as well.

The big payoff is some form of mass reanimation, e.g. Living Death.

Skullclamp is itself a sacrifice outlet for Gravecrawler, Master of Death or Silversmote Ghoul. This also works for some of Haakon, Stromgald Scourge's cohort, e.g. Foulmire Knight // Profane Insight, Universal Automaton or Changeling Outcast. The one-drops are very efficient, producing two cards per B available or C in the case of U.A. M.o.D. or S.G. can sometimes produce two cards a turn, which does not suck at all.

[damens]

Alright thanks for the answer. I "finished" my decklist for now. I run more lands than most here I guess to make sure I hit my 4 land drops.
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/7436130 ... lich_queen
depending how it goes I will probably add the tutors, less lands and landtax.

I need to make some room for Cosmic intervention and maybe Lilianas Standard bearer. Obvious cuts would be Bolas Citadel and keep watch or maybe one of the 3 drop zombies. Playing wonder over Zombie Master.
I opted for Mike because I like how he essentially gives another drain effect especially with cauldron haze.

I will have to see how Noxious Ghoul and Nevin work as a way to control the board or if I will prefer Toxic deluge. Also need to check how it fares against my Playgroup that it doesn't overpower them, I see it winning fairly quickly.

[Rframpt]

Noxious Ghoul can be very controlling as it also triggers of opponents making Zombies which a friend in my meta quickly found out when he played his Sidisi, Brood Tyrant deck. When he went for the usual Sidisi value engine shenanigans he forgot that Noxious Ghoul would also kill Sidisi should he make more than two Zombies.
I have been very happy with both noxious ghoul and nevin and also use the to bait for yard removal. Rather be the one forcing my opponents to answer the yard then them doing it when I desperately need the yard.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah I would think that Citadel is a good cut if you're looking to make more cuts. We don't really have a good way to clear the top to keep rolling with it (Necropotence would help but it's a nonbo with most of what we're doing), we don't have a good way to avoid hardcasting it, and honestly we sort of just don't need it. It's more of a storm off card, and we're mostly happy to grind till we find what we need.

I'll also recommend Champion of the Perished. I saw it on your maybes. It gets enormous so quick. That doesn't seem like enough, but it's a safe swing almost all of the time and that's pretty good.

[pokken]

I'll also recommend Champion of the Perished. I saw it on your maybes.

I have played Dreadmalkin and it was pretty good :D Literally any 1 drop zombie that can attack is massively better than people think it is. Ones that become 10/10s or draw cards are a slam dunk :D

[Zed117]

Went up to 38 lands (2 mdfc)
-Cutting Undead Warchief for Bladestitched Skaab. 4 is a lot to ask and getting another 2 drop in seems the way to go, while still giving a buff after a mass reanimation.
-Cutting Bone Miser for the time being as well due to it being 5. Replaced with Razorlash.

I'm currently at 2 slots open. I feel light on interaction tbh, so I'm considering another counter or Feed The Swarm. I could also to Fleshbag or Murderous Rider to put it on a zombie body. I'm at 36 zombies right now though.

I've put Wilhelt in the sideboard. It's card draw and helps after a boardwipe by giving me zombies to swing with on a Varina recast, but is that good enough?

I got putrid imp as another 1 drop and discard outlet. Have zombie infestation sideboarded as another potential add. Alongside oversild cemetery and other potential adds.

Light on one drops, does shambling ghast have a spot in this deck? When I don't run the Liliana that combos with it?

98 cards in main and 12 in sideboard as I consider the last 2 slots. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/GRjik-7FLEa3d97JLdm9hw

[damens]

Yeah champion of the perished had to go for putrid imp, maybe I get rid of putrid ghast or whatever is name since I dont run Liliana. Bolas will have to go for CI I think, though I still think Varina is a good way to clear the top. Maybe I will add it again, playing next week again and giving the deck a spin. I mean I can always cut lands right I proxied All the tutors as well so I can try different variations

[toctheyounger]

Yeah champion of the perished had to go for putrid imp, maybe I get rid of putrid ghast or whatever is name since I dont run Liliana. Bolas will have to go for CI I think, though I still think Varina is a good way to clear the top. Maybe I will add it again, playing next week again and giving the deck a spin. I mean I can always cut lands right I proxied All the tutors as well so I can try different variations

Imo, run all the 1-drop zombies you can. They're better than you think they're gonna be and they help make the most of Varina. Even Shambling Ghast is decent without Lili.

I think Citadel is a bad card here purely because we don't really have enough compact combo lines to be able to reliably go off the turn you drop citadel, and you really need to if you're running it. Varina can clear the top, yes, but only once. In my experience, Dragon's Rage Channeler and Necropotence are the best ways to make Citadel work for you, and there's very obvious reasons we're not on those. Honestly, the best thing you can do to replace the sheer power of Citadel is run efficient tutors to make your lines smooth out. @pokken has been on Intuition for a while and speaks well of it. I don't have a copy, so I can't really verify. I've been looking at Beseech the Mirror for a little while now, it's fairly reliably solid to shore up lines. Even Empty the Laboratory was fairly reasonable when I was on this. It doesn't miss, and we don't care about our creatures dying, so it's a pretty reasonable include if you want to trade weenies for key creatures.

Also, I know it's not the most popular opinion, but I'm on a fair degree less lands than most here. I haven't found it to be anything like as detrimental as you would think. I find myself looting away lands for surplus a considerable degree of the time. You really only need to keep the best one or two at any given moment. Usually only one, because you're going to be swinging every turn, and there's a pretty good chance you can find another with Varina, or Discovery, or Wayfarer.

[Zed117]

Yeah champion of the perished had to go for putrid imp, maybe I get rid of putrid ghast or whatever is name since I dont run Liliana. Bolas will have to go for CI I think, though I still think Varina is a good way to clear the top. Maybe I will add it again, playing next week again and giving the deck a spin. I mean I can always cut lands right I proxied All the tutors as well so I can try different variations

Imo, run all the 1-drop zombies you can. They're better than you think they're gonna be and they help make the most of Varina. Even Shambling Ghast is decent without Lili.

I think Citadel is a bad card here purely because we don't really have enough compact combo lines to be able to reliably go off the turn you drop citadel, and you really need to if you're running it. Varina can clear the top, yes, but only once. In my experience, Dragon's Rage Channeler and Necropotence are the best ways to make Citadel work for you, and there's very obvious reasons we're not on those. Honestly, the best thing you can do to replace the sheer power of Citadel is run efficient tutors to make your lines smooth out. @pokken has been on Intuition for a while and speaks well of it. I don't have a copy, so I can't really verify. I've been looking at Beseech the Mirror for a little while now, it's fairly reliably solid to shore up lines. Even Empty the Laboratory was fairly reasonable when I was on this. It doesn't miss, and we don't care about our creatures dying, so it's a pretty reasonable include if you want to trade weenies for key creatures.

Also, I know it's not the most popular opinion, but I'm on a fair degree less lands than most here. I haven't found it to be anything like as detrimental as you would think. I find myself looting away lands for surplus a considerable degree of the time. You really only need to keep the best one or two at any given moment. Usually only one, because you're going to be swinging every turn, and there's a pretty good chance you can find another with Varina, or Discovery, or Wayfarer.

Hmm, I've got five 1 drops, and eleven 2 drops. Maybe I should cut another 2 drop for a 1 drop? I like zombies with upside. I'm at 36 lands + 2mdfcs, I might cut 1 or 2 if I find myself getting flooded often.

[pokken]

Honestly @Zed117 I think you have enough of a deck together to just start playing and seeing what you like. don't get analysis paralysis

[pzbw7z]

The best thing about Champion of the Perished is the fear it instills in other players; it draws removal. That's good because that's a piece of removal that's not aimed at an important card.

Shambling Ghast is among the better one drops in my view. He's a creature that I actually want to see die! I wish all my creatures paid their mana cost back when they died. Pay back and mana fixing on a one drop? What's not to love?

If you want to play Bolas's Citadel, you need to play Sensei's Divining Top and you need gas to get it out and that probably means rituals. You also need sufficient tutor density to get them both out together. Throw in Aetherflux Reservoir if you want, but Zombie tribal is not really the best place for those sort of shenanigans. But do what you like; there's too many options for there to ever be anything close to a "standard" list.

[toctheyounger]

there's too many options for there to ever be anything close to a "standard" list.

Agreed, that's what makes this deck a blast, it's not solved.

Did you ever get your Borne Upon a Wind line going? I actually think it could be an interesting add on its own, card is kind of cracked in the right list.

[pzbw7z]

there's too many options for there to ever be anything close to a "standard" list.

Agreed, that's what makes this deck a blast, it's not solved.

Did you ever get your Borne Upon a Wind line going? I actually think it could be an interesting add on its own, card is kind of cracked in the right list.

My copy is presently in my Stella Lee deck where it can do amazing things. I haven't taken the time to sort out something for Varina yet.

Some of the spiciest lines with Borne in Dimir-plus involve Necropotence which is awkward in our deck, so there's that little handicap for us. But my main issue is that I'm trying to tune too many decks concurrently. The retirement of Prosper has opened up a flood of opportunities for Rowan as well as Stella plus I've got two casual Doctor Who precons that I'm trying to make into respectable battlecruiser decks to play with the low-power pods.

[dueba]

Hi all, its been a while.

Today we got a very promising zombie sacrifice outlet [Warren Soultrader] from an unofficial leak.
2B - 3/3 zombie goblin wizard
Pay 1 life, sacrifice another creature: create a treasure token.

This seems very easy to abuse and interested to hear your thoughts. Hopefully we get some more goodies from the set.

[pokken]

Hi all, its been a while.

Today we got a very promising zombie sacrifice outlet [Warren Soultrader] from an unofficial leak.
2B - 3/3 zombie goblin wizard
Pay 1 life, sacrifice another creature: create a treasure token.

This seems very easy to abuse and interested to hear your thoughts. Hopefully we get some more goodies from the set.

yeesh, that is a slam dunk. just goes functionally infinite with half the deck. :D the fact that it self-enables gravecrawler infinite with Wayward Servant is pretty gross. Can just Buried Alive for the three and mass reanimate kills, or Intuition for any two plus Dread Return etc.

[plaganegra]

Wasnt sure it was real until I saw a picture of it. Funny the last time I posted I was wishing for a new efficient zombie and the prayers were answered! I dub thee Altar Zombie lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comme ... oultrader/

[toctheyounger]

Huh, I had only thought of it in relation to Tymna/Dargo where it isn't quite there. Here, it's cracked in flippin' half. The zombie apocalypse is inevitable!