Xenagos, God of 2x Beatdown
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Great list! A longtime Xenagos player myself, I just found this thread and really enjoyed the primer as your list and play strategy are very similar way to mine with just a few differences. I never thought about the Godo combo, might steal it .
I hope you won't mind a few comments based on my experience with the deck.
First of all, I read the fatties tier list above and agree with most of it. Cards I would just rate higher as they work wonder for me:
- Goreclaw, Teror of Qal-Sisma : with the increasing number of 4CMC (or less) beaters, you can drop it T3, then proceed with Xenagos + a 4CMC beater T4. Essentially, similar to a T3 Xenagos plus added benefit of attacking on T4 with Goreclaw itself for trample and extra damage. Otherwise, the 2 mana you save on casting the next beater is often just what you need to cast a draw, protection or extra turn spell. I've also found the trample granting ability to be very useful for stuff like Malignus or Port Razer and often a game winning factor. I'm always happy to see the bear in my opening.
- Port Razer : agreed it requires extra setup to make it work but when it does, it's brutal. My list supports it with a few more ways to give trample though (Goreclaw as mentionned above, Rancor, additionally to Ibex Pathbreaker and the trample granting lands which I think you also run). It's disgusting with the Ibex.
So based on your comments, I get why you aren't playing these 2 cards but maybe this can be helpful for other players with slightly more budget lists.
I also like another haste provider so I don't need to waste Xenagos trigger on utility creatures, especially Selvala and Combat Celebrant. I used to be on Swiftfoot Boots for extra protection but the equip cost plus Bane of Progress made me looked for alternatives. Currently trying Lightning Mauler which seems good for the job although a bit fragile.
And Druid of Purification as a cheaper one-sided Bane of Progress if you need to fight stax without blowing up your own stuff. On that front, I'm running also Cindervines. Instant speed removal for a single colorless is pretty good.
Have you considered Aggravated Assault ? With Gnawbone, you can now hold it and play it post combat for infinite combat steps (depending on board) . I managed to pull it a few times and it's basically GG every time.
I'm curious, how good is Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer? Isn't it a dead draw outside of early game compared to a dork that will at least tap for mana or can be sacrificed to Natural Order?
Sorry if you already answered some of these questions, the thread is so long and I admit I didnt read through all of it. But again, awesome list & primer, I will come around here more often.
I hope you won't mind a few comments based on my experience with the deck.
First of all, I read the fatties tier list above and agree with most of it. Cards I would just rate higher as they work wonder for me:
- Goreclaw, Teror of Qal-Sisma : with the increasing number of 4CMC (or less) beaters, you can drop it T3, then proceed with Xenagos + a 4CMC beater T4. Essentially, similar to a T3 Xenagos plus added benefit of attacking on T4 with Goreclaw itself for trample and extra damage. Otherwise, the 2 mana you save on casting the next beater is often just what you need to cast a draw, protection or extra turn spell. I've also found the trample granting ability to be very useful for stuff like Malignus or Port Razer and often a game winning factor. I'm always happy to see the bear in my opening.
- Port Razer : agreed it requires extra setup to make it work but when it does, it's brutal. My list supports it with a few more ways to give trample though (Goreclaw as mentionned above, Rancor, additionally to Ibex Pathbreaker and the trample granting lands which I think you also run). It's disgusting with the Ibex.
So based on your comments, I get why you aren't playing these 2 cards but maybe this can be helpful for other players with slightly more budget lists.
I also like another haste provider so I don't need to waste Xenagos trigger on utility creatures, especially Selvala and Combat Celebrant. I used to be on Swiftfoot Boots for extra protection but the equip cost plus Bane of Progress made me looked for alternatives. Currently trying Lightning Mauler which seems good for the job although a bit fragile.
And Druid of Purification as a cheaper one-sided Bane of Progress if you need to fight stax without blowing up your own stuff. On that front, I'm running also Cindervines. Instant speed removal for a single colorless is pretty good.
Have you considered Aggravated Assault ? With Gnawbone, you can now hold it and play it post combat for infinite combat steps (depending on board) . I managed to pull it a few times and it's basically GG every time.
I'm curious, how good is Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer? Isn't it a dead draw outside of early game compared to a dork that will at least tap for mana or can be sacrificed to Natural Order?
Sorry if you already answered some of these questions, the thread is so long and I admit I didnt read through all of it. But again, awesome list & primer, I will come around here more often.
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- plushpenguin
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Glad everyone has positive experiences with the deck.
To answer the previous question, monkey allows you to essentially bank its mana and also steal fast mana from opponents. worth being bad later where all dorks are not great draws anyway.
I'm getting rid of the blood moon list, mostly because moons really aren't that good anymore. Reason: Very timing dependent and every ramp effect gets around the restriction (also red is actually a good color these days). I'm doubling down on the anti-blue package tho as it has been overperforming. So instead of hexproof protection I'm running an antiblue package.
also I haven't used my wolfrun in over six months, so now is the time for it to go out. Games are simply faster these days. Keep it though if you aren't hyperoptimizing.
also removing req tower. Gnawbone has made it obsolete as I rarely need to pass turn after drawing 20 cards to win now.
Frontier Siege is another good card rendered obsolete by gnawbone. Replacing with more draw to help gnawbone.
also, boltbend is strictly better than hexproof cards here, so in it goes.
- Selvala, Heart of the wilds (keep if not hyperoptimized)
- Sylvan Tutor
- Kessig wolf run (keep if not hyperoptimized)
- Reliquary Tower (keep if you want intimidation factor)
- Frontier Siege
- blossoming defense
- Heroic Intervention
- Vines of Vastwood (worse without the inkmoth kill)
- 2 land (to 34)
+ Llanowar Elves
+ Natural order
+ Gemstone caverns (if your opener is a good 7, you don't need to exile a card)
+ Castle Garenbrig
+ wheel of misfortune
+ Red Elemental blast
+ Pyroblast
+ Bolt Bend
+ Allosaurus Shepherd (making natural order and drawspells uncounterable is gg)
+ Devoted Druid
deck is low curve and accelerant heavy enough that 34 land is actually stable.
Predictably, nothing from crimson vow is interesting.
To answer the previous question, monkey allows you to essentially bank its mana and also steal fast mana from opponents. worth being bad later where all dorks are not great draws anyway.
I'm getting rid of the blood moon list, mostly because moons really aren't that good anymore. Reason: Very timing dependent and every ramp effect gets around the restriction (also red is actually a good color these days). I'm doubling down on the anti-blue package tho as it has been overperforming. So instead of hexproof protection I'm running an antiblue package.
also I haven't used my wolfrun in over six months, so now is the time for it to go out. Games are simply faster these days. Keep it though if you aren't hyperoptimizing.
also removing req tower. Gnawbone has made it obsolete as I rarely need to pass turn after drawing 20 cards to win now.
Frontier Siege is another good card rendered obsolete by gnawbone. Replacing with more draw to help gnawbone.
also, boltbend is strictly better than hexproof cards here, so in it goes.
- Selvala, Heart of the wilds (keep if not hyperoptimized)
- Sylvan Tutor
- Kessig wolf run (keep if not hyperoptimized)
- Reliquary Tower (keep if you want intimidation factor)
- Frontier Siege
- blossoming defense
- Heroic Intervention
- Vines of Vastwood (worse without the inkmoth kill)
- 2 land (to 34)
+ Llanowar Elves
+ Natural order
+ Gemstone caverns (if your opener is a good 7, you don't need to exile a card)
+ Castle Garenbrig
+ wheel of misfortune
+ Red Elemental blast
+ Pyroblast
+ Bolt Bend
+ Allosaurus Shepherd (making natural order and drawspells uncounterable is gg)
+ Devoted Druid
deck is low curve and accelerant heavy enough that 34 land is actually stable.
Predictably, nothing from crimson vow is interesting.
Last edited by plushpenguin 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
So this is a bit of a digression from your main post but as you've got probably the most played Xenagos list out there I thought you might have some thoughts.
I was giving some thought to a "doubling" themed Xenagos, God of Revels list, with all the damage multiplying effects like Furnace of Rath, Gratuitous Violence, Fiery Emancipation, Dictate of the Twin Gods. Then maybe some mana doubling stuff like Doubling Cube, Nyxbloom Ancient and Mana Reflection.
It's obviously going to be worse in every way than an efficient, focused build, but I thought it might be fun doing stuff like seeing how many doubles you could get on a random trampler.
You got on any thoughts on whether you think something like that could be effective enough to be playable?
I was giving some thought to a "doubling" themed Xenagos, God of Revels list, with all the damage multiplying effects like Furnace of Rath, Gratuitous Violence, Fiery Emancipation, Dictate of the Twin Gods. Then maybe some mana doubling stuff like Doubling Cube, Nyxbloom Ancient and Mana Reflection.
It's obviously going to be worse in every way than an efficient, focused build, but I thought it might be fun doing stuff like seeing how many doubles you could get on a random trampler.
You got on any thoughts on whether you think something like that could be effective enough to be playable?
- plushpenguin
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all you need is one doubler to make everything almost lethal in one hit anyway. However, mana doubling (and tripling) goes really well with lands that tap for more than 1 mana, so you may want to include a nonbasic search/ramp package.pokken wrote: ↑2 years agoSo this is a bit of a digression from your main post but as you've got probably the most played Xenagos list out there I thought you might have some thoughts.
I was giving some thought to a "doubling" themed Xenagos, God of Revels list, with all the damage multiplying effects like Furnace of Rath, Gratuitous Violence, Fiery Emancipation, Dictate of the Twin Gods. Then maybe some mana doubling stuff like Doubling Cube, Nyxbloom Ancient and Mana Reflection.
It's obviously going to be worse in every way than an efficient, focused build, but I thought it might be fun doing stuff like seeing how many doubles you could get on a random trampler.
You got on any thoughts on whether you think something like that could be effective enough to be playable?
I've used this method in monogreen lists to grab nyxbloom and still play 2 eldrazi titans on the same turn.
- plushpenguin
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I swapped a Forest for Boseiju, no real surprise there.
However, the newly spoiled PW of the summer supplemental set is legitimately good here. I will be running it, and it will likely stay in the list.
However, the newly spoiled PW of the summer supplemental set is legitimately good here. I will be running it, and it will likely stay in the list.
Sorry for the ignorance, but which planeswalker would that be exactly? You can't mean Minsc & Boo can you? And, if so, how would they be worth slotting into the 99?plushpenguin wrote: ↑2 years agoI swapped a Forest for Boseiju, no real surprise there.
However, the newly spoiled PW of the summer supplemental set is legitimately good here. I will be running it, and it will likely stay in the list.
Thanks for answering my dumb question lol.
- plushpenguin
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+ Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes
+Ancient Copper Dragon
+ Tamiyo's Safekeeping
+ a land
(small removal swaps)
- Chandra's Ignition
- Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion
- Bolt Bend.
- Carnage Tyrant
Ignition can win games, but I need something versatile that is really good to curve into and still provides reach. Making a 4/4 hamster to block, casting Xenagod then flinging and drawing 8 is really good. Flinging other stuff late is surprisingly relevant for something normally frontloaded for early game.. I need to have as few early dead cards as possible. Only the draw/extra combats..
Copper dragon is basically gnawbone #3, go figure. An average roll should still be game winning. Neheb is good if you have a higher density of cards awkward early, but is bad if your hand empties quickly.
Safekeeping is better than bolt bend.
Threats are so good these says that Carny T doesn't do much anymore. Sorry fella.
+Ancient Copper Dragon
+ Tamiyo's Safekeeping
+ a land
(small removal swaps)
- Chandra's Ignition
- Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion
- Bolt Bend.
- Carnage Tyrant
Ignition can win games, but I need something versatile that is really good to curve into and still provides reach. Making a 4/4 hamster to block, casting Xenagod then flinging and drawing 8 is really good. Flinging other stuff late is surprisingly relevant for something normally frontloaded for early game.. I need to have as few early dead cards as possible. Only the draw/extra combats..
Copper dragon is basically gnawbone #3, go figure. An average roll should still be game winning. Neheb is good if you have a higher density of cards awkward early, but is bad if your hand empties quickly.
Safekeeping is better than bolt bend.
Threats are so good these says that Carny T doesn't do much anymore. Sorry fella.
- plushpenguin
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+Bloodthirster
- Malignus
Outside of gnawbone loops, bloodthirster is the single strongest source of damage in this deck. In a 4 player game it will do 12+24+48 damage, one shotting a target, and only getting better with player count.
- Malignus
Outside of gnawbone loops, bloodthirster is the single strongest source of damage in this deck. In a 4 player game it will do 12+24+48 damage, one shotting a target, and only getting better with player count.
What a time we have come to, with Malignus departing Xenagod. That said he is technically just an unevasive walker
- plushpenguin
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- plushpenguin
- Posts: 248
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"Unplayable" bad by the standards of this deck. I mean compare it to the other 7 drops.
It is a no evasion 7 drop and the effect is basically just another extra attackstep or straight up overkill. Hard to find the slot, especially since some metagames will make u want to get Carnage Tyrant back in. I can understand why pengu cut him, but the line of better options in general is long.
I mean arguably a card has to be just as insane as those 2 7 drop fliers because otherwise we are talking about stuff like Summoner's Pact as simply better option.
I love Zopa in my Maelstromwanderer Deck heavy on cascade (all the random beaters with cascade), so a 7 drop that makes random dorks bigger is perfect, but xenagos treats need to pull their weight and it isnt doing that simply here
It is a no evasion 7 drop and the effect is basically just another extra attackstep or straight up overkill. Hard to find the slot, especially since some metagames will make u want to get Carnage Tyrant back in. I can understand why pengu cut him, but the line of better options in general is long.
I mean arguably a card has to be just as insane as those 2 7 drop fliers because otherwise we are talking about stuff like Summoner's Pact as simply better option.
I love Zopa in my Maelstromwanderer Deck heavy on cascade (all the random beaters with cascade), so a 7 drop that makes random dorks bigger is perfect, but xenagos treats need to pull their weight and it isnt doing that simply here
I mean it is a strong card obviously and how many slots you want to free up for protection/dont use for budget reasons. If your group is all about wraths the older options in Tamiyo's Safekeeping and Tyvars Stand are better and ofc Deflecting Swat is superior by being free most of the time. If your meta is that blue heavy that the split second is relevant it always opens the question if not playing both red blasts as better flexible casts.
You cannot rely go wrong with the card, but given the pricetag you have to ask yourself how your playgroup is set up if it is even better then existing options and worth the minor upgrade at best.
I kinda enjoy
atm.
You have to question yourself at times if you want to put another creature out with him if you want to avoid devotion, but "double" ramping with a land and when he gets killed makes the next plays often easier AND he remains lurking as an option to bring back. He could contest the slot of Elder Gargaroth imho if you go by the "primer" list"
You cannot rely go wrong with the card, but given the pricetag you have to ask yourself how your playgroup is set up if it is even better then existing options and worth the minor upgrade at best.
I kinda enjoy
atm.
You have to question yourself at times if you want to put another creature out with him if you want to avoid devotion, but "double" ramping with a land and when he gets killed makes the next plays often easier AND he remains lurking as an option to bring back. He could contest the slot of Elder Gargaroth imho if you go by the "primer" list"
(collection of random xenagos thoughts below)
Fwiw, I eventually abandoned the 'doubling' theme; it just took up too many slots. The deck wound up being a Blasphemous Act control shell essentially
Instead of trying to race (with tutors and fast mana) I'm using a slower mana strategy and more sweepers (Spiteful Banditry, Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction and Call Forth the Tempest, along with defensive-ish creatures like Balefire Dragon and Drakuseth, Maw of Flames
I think this strategy is somewhat worse, but I've got the deck built with zero tutors and only draw spells and ramp spells with almost no board commitment (no Sylvan Library to get blown up by Aura Shards) and it seems to function really well.
So just wanted to say thanks for the discussion on the doubling theme, it turned out to be quite accurate :D
--
I shamelessly stole Doomskar Warrior and Ojer Kaslem, Deepest Growth // Temple of Cultivation from @Rumpy5897 and they have both been fantastic. Being able to deploy a threat early and start bashing and fixing your hand at the same time has been really good. They're super standalone too which goes well with the Xenagos style.
--
Another card I have been enjoying a great deal is Bard Class. It can be thought of essentially as a 4 mana ramp 2 spell that puts Xenagos out a turn early while potentially ramping and beefing your Fats.
It's a bit counter to the ethos of the deck so likely will eventually go out (because it exposes you to removal) but it's a really strong card if you're as high on legendaries as I am (10 of my 20 fatties).
--
New Vorinclex // The Grand Evolution has been really good for me on the slower gameplan. Blocking fliers, and being able to flip and rip is good. Not sure this build has quite the quotient of fatties for it though.
--
I think that the flip lands Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass and Turntimber Symbiosis // Turntimber, Serpentine Wood are almost certainly correct to play, if annoying. Turntimber actually came in clutch and won me a game (again though my quotient of fatties is a bit higher) by ripping Old Gnawbone off the top not too long ago :D
Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass is another card from my "control" suite that has been really good at buying time and giving me a higher virtual land count.
Fwiw, I eventually abandoned the 'doubling' theme; it just took up too many slots. The deck wound up being a Blasphemous Act control shell essentially
Instead of trying to race (with tutors and fast mana) I'm using a slower mana strategy and more sweepers (Spiteful Banditry, Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction and Call Forth the Tempest, along with defensive-ish creatures like Balefire Dragon and Drakuseth, Maw of Flames
I think this strategy is somewhat worse, but I've got the deck built with zero tutors and only draw spells and ramp spells with almost no board commitment (no Sylvan Library to get blown up by Aura Shards) and it seems to function really well.
So just wanted to say thanks for the discussion on the doubling theme, it turned out to be quite accurate :D
--
I shamelessly stole Doomskar Warrior and Ojer Kaslem, Deepest Growth // Temple of Cultivation from @Rumpy5897 and they have both been fantastic. Being able to deploy a threat early and start bashing and fixing your hand at the same time has been really good. They're super standalone too which goes well with the Xenagos style.
--
Another card I have been enjoying a great deal is Bard Class. It can be thought of essentially as a 4 mana ramp 2 spell that puts Xenagos out a turn early while potentially ramping and beefing your Fats.
It's a bit counter to the ethos of the deck so likely will eventually go out (because it exposes you to removal) but it's a really strong card if you're as high on legendaries as I am (10 of my 20 fatties).
--
New Vorinclex // The Grand Evolution has been really good for me on the slower gameplan. Blocking fliers, and being able to flip and rip is good. Not sure this build has quite the quotient of fatties for it though.
--
I think that the flip lands Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass and Turntimber Symbiosis // Turntimber, Serpentine Wood are almost certainly correct to play, if annoying. Turntimber actually came in clutch and won me a game (again though my quotient of fatties is a bit higher) by ripping Old Gnawbone off the top not too long ago :D
Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass is another card from my "control" suite that has been really good at buying time and giving me a higher virtual land count.