Xenagos, God of 2x Beatdown

jaishivajai
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Post by jaishivajai » 3 years ago

I am convinced that Unleash Fury is a great card after looking through my deck again. Works with
All additional combat spells,
All card draw spells based on a creature's power This will be a staple that will enable earlier wins. It is disgusting with chandra's ignition! :omg: :halo: At two mana we will easily be able to combo this up with an additional spell late game for insane damage potential. Keep in mind with Quartzwood Crasher and Elder gargaroth, we keep gaining viable 4-5 drops. So for 6-7 mana we can play a beater and unleash fury, easy to do midgame. Unleash fury is easy to back up with a protection spell as well, like Vines of Vastwood. In fact these 2 cards provide 16 extra damage on their own if you don't need to save vines as a protection spell. Unleash fury will be a game ender, I guarantee it.

My new deck is on it's way in the next week or so for a post here. Many changes since it's last incarnation and a slightly different perspective on Xenagos than our courageous leader. (Also more budget friendly.) I feel that running so many removal spells is hampering the deck's consistency. With the huge surge of more efficient tools/combos, the deck should view killing a player as it's answer to problematic spells. I'm actually just down to Beast Within and Chaos Warp as targeted removal spells. (As much as it pained me to cut Decimate [/card]

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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

My stance on lands: Yes, 37 or more if you have budget constraints. I've trimmed so much that I can afford to get away with less than that, but I would agree that cutting lands is never a good habit without a very good reason.

My stance on removal: Necessary evil. You don't want too much (drawing too many is actively bad for your gameplan) but you need it or else you will lose to stuff that you can realistically otherwise beat. Glass-cannon strategies, hate pieces, etc. The cheaper the better though. The 3 mana ones I run because they are flexible, but otherwise stick to 2cmc or less.

Kenrith's Transformation is special here because it replaces itself. The fact that many strategies are extremely commander-centric these days makes it invaluable.

streahorn
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Post by streahorn » 3 years ago

So in the instance of "burst draw" would knollspine dragon not fit this criteria? As he can also be sneak attacked out it would keep the mana curve from getting out of hand and it also comes with a body in case of hard cast, just wandering on any thoughts?

jaishivajai
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Post by jaishivajai » 3 years ago

streahorn wrote:
3 years ago
So in the instance of "burst draw" would knollspine dragon not fit this criteria? As he can also be sneak attacked out it would keep the mana curve from getting out of hand and it also comes with a body in case of hard cast, just wandering on any thoughts?
Knollspine Dragon looks interesting. Arguments against it: it's a 7 drop without any evasion beyond flying. We should try to limit the number of those we have in the deck. In fact, 7 drops are just really becoming outdated in general due to all of the good 5 drops that are popping up these days. At first, I was going to say a drawback was the fact that it required a creature set-up for a pay off. However, we have quite a few draw spells that do require a creature set-up for a pay off. On the downside, this is a draw card spell that has devotion, which can turn Xenagos into a creature. This will almost certainly happen to reach the best upside of the card. Between it, xenagos, and another beater we are at 6 devotion. Any other creature/enchantment turns xenagos on which we should avoid unless we think it will win us the game or have no other choice to gain more leverage. It makes you discard your hand, which can be bad if we've already played a good draw spell, or are trying to save up some protection or removal.

The arguments for: It does become an extra huge card draw spell in the right circumstances. The entire set up of the deck is to meet those circumstances, so it is a good extra draw spell card if it lines up right. It does have 7 evasive power as the floor, which is barely passable as a 7 drop for this deck.

I would run Siege Behemoth over Knollspine dragon for instance. The Hexproof and ability to guarantee damage getting through is more valuable than the upside of knollspine dragon. We can't just add 7 drops willy-nilly! If you have wheel of fortune, that's also a better choice than this card.

If you're running 17-19 beaters, it could be a good place holder until you get a better card. I think the 7 cost and set up makes this card easy to cut/ignore given how honed xenagos becomes.

I played my deck last night and got a good win in! My list is becoming more settled. Posting to follow soon.

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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

- Sylvan Scrying (basically only ever gets tomb and very rarely cavern)
- Nature's Lore (double ramping starting turn 1 is much more important now)
- Ignite the Future (it was usually just a worse harmonize)

+ Elder Gargaroth (not amazing, but it's like putting something close to harmonize on an attacker. Plus, it increases beef count making the deck more consistent. Situationally good against the rare aggro deck from the opponent)
+ Arbor Elf (1-drop. I have 10 forests and 8 fetch. This will rarely be bad and sometimes amazing)
+ Overgrowth (dedicated 3 drop ramp but it adds a lot of mana and doesn't slow you down when playing it late)

BM build ONLY
- Hellkite Tyrant (In more competitive tables this creature's benefits are immensely situational)
+ Allosaurus Shepard (it does miss on important red creatures, but it does permit the card draw to be safe and it allows my interaction to go through)

Note, if the latter does not make the cut, Destiny Spinner will be tested.

These changes from earlier are implemented. No testing available due to COVID. Expect this situation to remain for some time.

I'm also copying the primer for Moxfield. Pretty easy to import, as it turns out. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/QI9H1J17dUqGmUzTm3bxRw

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Post by SGAN » 3 years ago

What are your thoughts on Oakhame Adversary? I saw a couple pages back that you were thinking of testing it out. Seems like it can come out for only two mana in most games and may provide some steady draw, since I imagine most opponents wouldn't block it with anything worth losing to deathtouch (or you can just try to swing at someone with an open board). I'm just trying to find more ways to make sure I don't run out of gas and this looks good, at least in theory. Obviously vulnerable to board wipes.

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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

SGAN wrote:
3 years ago
What are your thoughts on Oakhame Adversary? I saw a couple pages back that you were thinking of testing it out. Seems like it can come out for only two mana in most games and may provide some steady draw, since I imagine most opponents wouldn't block it with anything worth losing to deathtouch (or you can just try to swing at someone with an open board). I'm just trying to find more ways to make sure I don't run out of gas and this looks good, at least in theory. Obviously vulnerable to board wipes.
I like it a lot. I'm heavily looking into a spot for my stax-incorporated build. You generally want it for mana dork metas. Paying 4 for it is... not great.

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Post by ManaTapper » 3 years ago

jaishivajai wrote:
3 years ago
With budget constraints, you should be playing 37 lands at least. Easy trade, Arbor elves for land. Plushpenguin gets away with 36 due toAncient Tomb and multiple cards that search for a specific land. W/out ancient tomb and cheap search for land cards, play 37 lands. We need to get to six mana on turn 5 or earlier given the power of Xenagos's plus ability. In fact, you will be served better by a Gruul Signet over a llanowar elves as well. Gruul signet adds no devotion, and can recoup some mana the turn it comes out. Mana ramp on creatures is just worse than ramp on artifacts due to boardwipes and creature removal being more prevalent.
Well hello there, i came late to the topic but i Will be very active from now on. Firstly it has been quite a Journey for me since i brew this deck till today and it's very well described by penguin's perspective. SO thank You very much for so detailed history of the deck.

Now i differ from jaishvahai here, in many other decks your statement would be true. But with xenaghos turn one is precious and a mana dork is the difference Even to play a cultivate turn 2 and ensure xenaghos turn 3. While mana rocks are great and more protected leave u only 3 cards out of 99 to play turn 1 without dorks.

I could Even Say that in cases dorks could be better than land enchantments because it's removability from the board allows You to re use the devotion they were using with something else while in late Game the land enchantments tend to turn on xenaghos. But lets face it we want more mana and we don't want it to dissapear.

Every piece earns its place. I only run rocks that give me My colours, Sol Ring and thought vessel as another piece to save My burst draws. And learned the hard way that only 2 or 3 rocks are allowed in the 99. grull signet it's useless turn 2 and can't be considered a rock in that turn, it's like it had sickness that turn so will not allow You to develope your board as a turn 1 dork. I have the signet in My 99 but would not choose it over My birds of paradise both are good in different scenarios, as land sol ring and signet turn 1 and xenaghos turn 2 but that does not happend a lot.

I had never played 37 lands with this deck, i rather play 2 or 3 ramps of 2cmc and 34-35 lands son i have less need and more opportunity to filter lands.

I still strugle with the Overgrowth enchantment since in late games ussually a cultivate would for 3 mana put 1 untapped (the one in ur hand) and not contribute on devotion... We only have 1 or 2 dorks to untap forrests so not counting that as a plus to make a case fot that enchantment.

Stoped ussing removals as lignify enchantments too for that matter (it's a great card but devotion....), i use the ram through better. Cause it removes and ads dmg.

Reason is, we have better ench as carpet of flowers and greatter good that if they are on the battlefield are more needed than land based ramp, and leaves us only 2 devotion for ur fatties to turn on xenaghos. Creatures with 3 devotion have to be worth it, as godo combo and crasher.

Pd. I'm from Venezuela so My deck is always somewhat budget based on our crappy economy.

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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

I would definitely say that mana dorks are very good. Yes, they grant devotion but we have to manage a delicate balance between making our deck fast enough and having careful control of our devotion. Also, the fact that they die to sweepers is significant as losing even one can sometimes set you back from 6 mana to 5 mana and prevent crucial plays.

The above statement is less important the more optimized your deck is. Once you start running 5 drops, you can at times lose a small ramp piece without it being crippling.

Even extra mana rocks are not bad choices. I simply don't run them because I'm on Collector Ouphe. That card is too strong not to build around at least a little bit.

I'm on 35-36 lands. We really can't afford to miss land drops.

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Post by ManaTapper » 3 years ago

I had acward Moments with World at War so i've wanted to try Disrupt Decorum but havent got it yet, seems to me that won't win You the Game but makes the oponents to do weard stuff on their turns to save their creats and leaves You tapped lands on their ends too (by online testing). It's not a reliable thing and wouldnt make a case fot it yet.

Nevertheless i may end up using Unleash Fury instead for the upsides with the Chandra's Ignition and toguether with ram through they hit for 8x the creature dmg and removes a creature, Not relevant to that point where You should have hitten for at least 48 but, has it's upsides with creatures that doesn't let You win or change your oponents life total like Platinum Angel.

To the Brash Taunter topic i rather have a Kalonian Hydra or a Carnage Tyrant in hand to hit right away than depend on politics because oponents see him as a threat that worths to betray You.

In that matter i don't know why penguin does not use those cards, Carnage has protection built in and kalonian with two combats does 12 dmg first fase and 32 the next and leaves You a 16/16. The worst case scenario leaves You an 8/8 that Will be 16/16 on itself next turn.

To the Fiery Emancipation i don't think i would use it. I cutted out Sunbird's Invocation for not doing anything the turn it enters the battlefield and dying to 1 or 2 cmc spells before You use it and there's the devotion downside too, it could turn on your xenaghos as well.

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Post by ManaTapper » 3 years ago

I would like your thoughts on Grothama, All-Devouring. I know it does not have trample, but appart of the deathtouch cheatures it's hard to kill and if they do they lose board pressence,
Now You could use it as a draw spell too. Imaginé You have a 6/6, play grothama pump the 6/6 with xenaghos and hace it fight grothama... Most likely Will die both cards if ur 12/2 (now) gets blocked, but You Will draw 12 cards. Another interaction would be with Life's Legacy like cards and turn 4 it's very hard to deal with

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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

ManaTapper wrote:
3 years ago
I had acward Moments with World at War so i've wanted to try Disrupt Decorum but havent got it yet, seems to me that won't win You the Game but makes the oponents to do weard stuff on their turns to save their creats and leaves You tapped lands on their ends too (by online testing). It's not a reliable thing and wouldnt make a case fot it yet.

Nevertheless i may end up using Unleash Fury instead for the upsides with the Chandra's Ignition and toguether with ram through they hit for 8x the creature dmg and removes a creature, Not relevant to that point where You should have hitten for at least 48 but, has it's upsides with creatures that doesn't let You win or change your oponents life total like Platinum Angel.

To the Brash Taunter topic i rather have a Kalonian Hydra or a Carnage Tyrant in hand to hit right away than depend on politics because oponents see him as a threat that worths to betray You.

In that matter i don't know why penguin does not use those cards, Carnage has protection built in and kalonian with two combats does 12 dmg first fase and 32 the next and leaves You a 16/16. The worst case scenario leaves You an 8/8 that Will be 16/16 on itself next turn.

To the Fiery Emancipation i don't think i would use it. I cutted out Sunbird's Invocation for not doing anything the turn it enters the battlefield and dying to 1 or 2 cmc spells before You use it and there's the devotion downside too, it could turn on your xenaghos as well.
I do run Carnage Tyrant. It is very good. I use Elder Gargaroth in Kalonian's place because of the card draw. I don't expect my creatures to live for long.

I'm worried about the tempo loss for 6cmc enchantments as well. It isn't like our creatures where we can stop the spell and get our value.

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Post by Jibsea » 3 years ago

I've been playing Xenagod for years and enjoyed reading through the thread.

Some cards for people to consider when playing our favorite god of stomp:

Runic Armasaur - the incremental card draw is nice, though this is really a meta call. It can draw you rhystic study level of cards in some metas, others it's dead.

Realm Seekers - while this guy doesn't have evasion, which is a big detractor, he tends to be wicked big and his additional utility is really nice. I usually grab Kessig Wolf Run with him first, which gets around his first issue. Being able to grab Strip Mine is also nice.

Vexing Shusher - because blue sucks, sometimes, and a heavy counter meta really can give this type of deck problems.

Skarrg, the Rage Pits - a second trample land is always nice, especially if you don't have a lot of other trample enablers.

Grafted Exoskeleton - another card you can grab with Godo that makes him lethal, typically. I run a lot more utility creatires in my build, and equipping this to smaller creatures can make them threatening.

Punishing Fire - your running Grove of the Burnwillows, this has nice synergy in killing some popular commanders and utility creatures.

Avatar of Fury - it's usually a good evasive beater for 2 red and fire-breathing can be nice.

These may not fit into every deck, but are great budget/meta considerations for some decks.

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Post by ManaTapper » 3 years ago

i came across realm seekers a while ago and it felt too slow, i dont have many non ramplers on my deck, so betweem him and omnivore i chose the latter. The avatar is the first time i see, but if any opponent has 7 lands u should be finishim up, and single strike for 12 does not cut it. flying is evasive but even a 1/1 flyer stops you. So they are good fits but my meta is very fast for them...
the lands are welcome, i had the skarrg once on my wishlist and i must have forgotten it, thanks for reminding me that.

i had a voltron deck where people use to destroy the grafted exoskeleton because my commander had hexproff and kill him that way, that i think banned the card for me for life. And shusher i never got my hands on it

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Post by Jibsea » 3 years ago

Avatar of Fury - my meta is slower and full of ramp, so this guy consistently comes down for 2 mana on turns 4-6, the real benefit being that it leaves up the rest of your mana for extra combat spells, draw spells, etc. Its the same reason Wilderness Elemental is so good. He's cheap, beefy, gets damage through, and leaves mana available for other plays. Granted, if your playing in a near cEDH pod, people don't have 7 lands in play that soon, if at all.

Personally, this is my casual deck that wins via combat damage or something like Chandra's Ignition, I'm playing something else if we're going all out.

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Post by ManaTapper » 3 years ago

Yesterday talking to a friend he pointed out this card Defense of the Heart.... As i see it it's a good bet. And would worth to include hellkite Charger so we could try and combo out the games toguether with Selvala, Heart of the Wilds or savage ventmaw or Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion.... It would be like having a tutor for combo. At the cost of an extra combat phase.

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Post by Jibsea » 3 years ago

If you go that route, you're better off including Neheb, the Eternal with Hellkite Charger, as then you only need haste for the Charger.

The other cards you mentioned would require giving haste to both creatures, or having one of the mana producers in play already.

Most games I've played with Defense of the Heart it either gets destroyed immediately or my opponents play around it. Most people know how dangerous an entwined Tooth and Nail is, so they realize the threat behind Defense of the Heart. That said, if you're playing against a lot of token decks or creature swarms, it may be a nice meta call.

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Post by ManaTapper » 3 years ago

the hellkite charger has haste.

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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

Defense of the Heart is something that people have learned to play around.

Grafted Exoskeleton is a lot worse in a world of Nature's Claim and Force of Vigor.

Vexing Shusher is fine but Destiny Spinner generally costs you less mana. However, if you need a second one or one that works on your noncreatures it will work.

I'd argue that Avatar of Fury is pretty meh even in mid power games. Not everyone hits 7 mana quickly with lands. The cost reduction is unreliable and the payoff is unimpressive. Wilderness Elemental generally does more damage and always costs 3.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Feel free to shoot this down, but Garruk's Harbinger? It comes down early and digs for beef, but admittedly has no evasion.
 
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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
3 years ago
Feel free to shoot this down, but Garruk's Harbinger? It comes down early and digs for beef, but admittedly has no evasion.
Not shooting it down, but saying that it is a solid option for mana dork heavy versions.

You want both high creature density AND a reliable way of T2ing this, which dork version can do easily. As it stands, I got plenty of decent card draw options and a low creature density for a Xenagod deck.

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Post by Zerro » 3 years ago

plushpenguin wrote:
3 years ago
So, despite their similarities, Neyith is much more of a board control card than a pure aggro card. The card draw + 3 mana for a power doubling activation and the lack of granted haste changes quite a bit on how you want to approach the deck. I suspect a Neyith deck will be slower but have tons of options for luring enemy creatures and such. However, if you try to build it for straight aggro, it will probably be worse. So, in subtle ways, the two cards pull in different directions.
Just wanted to say thanks for this little snippet. I had been looking for the mindset that I needed for Neyith and once i read this the lights turned on. Thank you so much!!
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plushpenguin
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Post by plushpenguin » 3 years ago

How many busted commanders does Rending Volley kill? A lot of them, for an uncounterable 1 mana.

I'm going to try it out. I feel that R/G's creature removal is always lackluster and this version is fast enough that enemy beef is essentially a non-issue.

I wouldn't run it if you aren't maxing out on power like I am.

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Post by Jibsea » 3 years ago

Nearly the same amount as Lightning Bolt.

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Post by ManaTapper » 3 years ago

i'd say better a lightning bolt too cause if they spend the counter on that... your big creature will hit, if you kill their creature they will counter something of value. But not using that, i focus on killing the opponent rather than his creatures

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