Xenagos, God of 2x Beatdown

[jaishivajai]

I'm honestly a little surprised you're not running Voracious Hydra - the seven cost can't be that prohibitive if you talked yourself into jamming the new dragon by the end of your post. These sort of standalone two-shot evasive haymakers feel like a reliable way to pressure the table, as you don't really need anything else to come together to explode people. That said, it's easy for me to spout nonsense without actually having a feel for how the deck runs. In my Ghired, the 5-to-7 CMC timing gap is so huge I don't even run Avenger of Zendikar. That said, I often have to front a little extra mana on the turn itself to make copies. Where was I going with this? I don't know. Sorry

Right now I'm actually testing voracious over omnivore. Right now I'm simply at the point where I can generally assume I only have three productive attack steps in a reasonably high-powered game. Three is not enough for even the 2-shotting creatures to be amazing, especially at 7 mana. However, I have to run them because nothing else is better.

Dang only 3 good attack steps per game! I can see why you need to favor creature protection spells over me. I imagine you're high powered games include some straight competitive EDH decks. I had a talk with our group about how none of us really have a cEDH deck as far as 9-10 on the 10 powerscale. I had to point out the hundreds of dollars in reserved list cards they were missing and the fact that no one in our group combos off in general and almost never before turn 8.

Xenagos does really well against 8 power level and down I feel. This is a deck where the number of opponents really matter too. I don't pull him out for 5 player games, too many people with answers, too much life to get through. He usually destroys in 3 player games.

[plushpenguin]

I'm honestly a little surprised you're not running Voracious Hydra - the seven cost can't be that prohibitive if you talked yourself into jamming the new dragon by the end of your post. These sort of standalone two-shot evasive haymakers feel like a reliable way to pressure the table, as you don't really need anything else to come together to explode people. That said, it's easy for me to spout nonsense without actually having a feel for how the deck runs. In my Ghired, the 5-to-7 CMC timing gap is so huge I don't even run Avenger of Zendikar. That said, I often have to front a little extra mana on the turn itself to make copies. Where was I going with this? I don't know. Sorry

Right now I'm actually testing voracious over omnivore. Right now I'm simply at the point where I can generally assume I only have three productive attack steps in a reasonably high-powered game. Three is not enough for even the 2-shotting creatures to be amazing, especially at 7 mana. However, I have to run them because nothing else is better.

Dang only 3 good attack steps per game! I can see why you need to favor creature protection spells over me. I imagine you're high powered games include some straight competitive EDH decks. I had a talk with our group about how none of us really have a cEDH deck as far as 9-10 on the 10 powerscale. I had to point out the hundreds of dollars in reserved list cards they were missing and the fact that no one in our group combos off in general and almost never before turn 8.

Xenagos does really well against 8 power level and down I feel. This is a deck where the number of opponents really matter too. I don't pull him out for 5 player games, too many people with answers, too much life to get through. He usually destroys in 3 player games.

As it stands, actually this deck can sort of "combo off" in a way by wiping a table. I've had hands that can wipe a 4-player table by turn 6. These aren't even god hands either.. These are simply "good" hands.

There are new principles that I'm finding with the deck and trying to address.. One of them is "Nothing is better than Godo".. which means maximum cheap tutor density to get him. It can even be argued now for putting Fierce Empath back into the deck because where there used to be an insufficient difference in creature quality to justify a 3cmc tutor, this may no longer be the case.

The other one is... if I can draw cards, I'm likely winning the game. Harmonize is the worst of the 4 unconditional draw effects but escape and library do a lot to help me win the game. I want to maximize the chances of getting good drawpower in early. If I can't, I'm guaranteed to run out of gas and lose.

But yeah, the entire idea of running 7 drops in general... is obsolete to me. We have holdovers because we don't have better options. Once a creature gets released that itself does burst draw based on power, then we jam that in and don't look back.

The 6 mana dudes that create mana are great with card draw, but you need to see it. Getting in repeated attacks for 12-16 simply doesn't cut it anymore.

[Tevesh]

I've definitely noticed a powercreep just within the four years I've been back into Magic and playing EDH. Before, my yardstick was 'If it costs 6, it better win you the game' and now it's heading into 5 territory; hell, some of builds put 4 as the Magic number. Look at all of these amazing value Commanders they've been putting out. I roll my eyes at all of the Chulanes running around.

If you're looking for draw, considering how much damage you do have you thought of Hunter's Prowess?

[jaishivajai]

Tevesh, we got a new card called Return of the Wildspeaker that's better than Hunter's Prowess. Also escape the wilds went in because it's not creature dependent and has ramp potential.

Penguin, I realized I was writing that post from the point of view of my decklist. I consider my Xenagos an 8 but yours a 9, maybe 10 with the Godo combo. I'm missing Mana Vault, Carpet of Flowers, Mirri's Guile, Taiga, a couple of fetchlands and even some of the the extra combat spells. I also have yet to put in the Godo/Embercleave combo which looks like it takes the deck up another notch.

If you can kill 4 people by turn 6, damn! My deck is no where near there yet. Nicely done.

I was quite happy with my Xenagos's power level for about about a year and a half. It dominated my old playgroup. It didn't seem necessary to spend time upgrading it. However, I fell in with a higher power level play group. I hear you on the "12-16 damage a turn doesn't cut it anymore."

[Tevesh]

Tevesh, we got a new card called Return of the Wildspeaker that's better than Hunter's Prowess. Also escape the wilds went in because it's not creature dependent and has ramp potential.

Redundancy is king.

[plushpenguin]

Tevesh, we got a new card called Return of the Wildspeaker that's better than Hunter's Prowess. Also escape the wilds went in because it's not creature dependent and has ramp potential.

Redundancy is king.

From here on out I actually want to avoid 5cmc draw options. Just for the sake of the mana curve.

Recently one of my favorite gamble targets has actually been Life's Legacy. Being able to spend the extra mana ramping after drawing a billion cards actually helps significantly.

[plushpenguin]

So, I was wrong about something today. As it turns out, paying 8 mana to get any threat from most zones when that 8 mana literally kills a player (godo) is pretty good. Before ELD, Finale of Devastation was definitely not worth it, but now I am sold on it. Also, to make this change easier on the curve, I am re-adding Wilderness Elemental because against people with decent landbases it will hit like a truck for 3 mana. This makes Finale able to bring out damage for 5 mana, which is very acceptable. I also needed more beef as I felt slightly short on it most games.

I'm also cutting the Aggravated Assault combos. As it turns out, trying to fish for aggravated-ventmaw is less consistent than running out godo, untapping with it and playing a different extra combat. This is mostly because the regular extra combats are good by themselves, while aggravated is too slow outside ventmaw combo.

No cards from THB make it in. I'm thinking of trying Oakhame Adversary, but not in a blind meta.

Rip Siege Behemoth (not enough dps for its cost, for real). rip caterpillar.. I'm already overloading on removal.

Regular build:
- Caustic Caterpillar
- Siege Behemoth
- Aggravated Assault

BM build:
- Forest
- Siege behemoth
- Aggravated Assault

Added to both:
+ Finale of Devastation
+ Wilderness Elemental
+ World at War

[plushpenguin]

So, today I did another bit of a rework, and this one was the critically outdated strategy section. Some parts of the early and late-game still made sense, but the midgame was a mess that really needed it, and more importantly so as it is the most critical phase of the deck. With my extended experience with the deck, I actually was able to isolate and explain well the two approaches that I have the most success with when piloting the deck. In fact, yesterday, I was able to win through hate pieces with the second strategy.

Enjoy
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Depending on the type of threat you have and the nature of your hand, you can either pursue one of two strategies. You can pursue either a heavy-damage strategy or a resource-generation strategy, both with their advantages and disadvantages.

Heavy-Damage Strategy:
This strategy is usually the default strategy for Xenagos players. It involves leading off with extremely high-damage creatures such as Godo, Bandit Warlord, Malignus, or Scourge of the Throne. The goal is to take out the most dangerous player very quickly while attempting to protect the threats if possible. Alternately, extra combat chains with the mana generating Savage Ventmaw can do lethal or Combat Celebrant setups can turn any big creature into lethal in one turn of attacks.

Key cards
Big threats- Godo, Bandit Warlord, Malignus, Scourge of the Throne, Pathbreaker Ibex, Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
Extra Combats - Combat Celebrant, Seize the Day, Relentless Assault

Advantages- Takes out players very fast, can even race powerful combo players. Can exploit momentary vulnerabilities to take out well-protected control players.

Disadvantages- Can run out of gas. More disadvantaged than other strategies if late-game is reached. Vulnerable to specialized hate pieces such as Glacial Chasm from drawing fewer cards than resource-generation strategy

Resource Generation Strategy:

This strategy aims for the generation of a massive resource advantage through its attacks instead of playing massive damage. You still can get in damage, but the priority is to generate large sums of mana or cards (or both) to draw a boatload of cards and have extremely powerful inevitability with the options that you have. These openers are more dependent on having different types of cards in your hand, but can be more powerful than the heavy-damage strategy and overall harder to stop once it gets going. Sometimes these starts even enable the deck to "go-off", chaining mana and spells into multiple lethal attacks into all players.


Key cards
Resource-generation threats: Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion, Savage Ventmaw, Rapacious One, Hellkite Tyrant (steals manarocks)
High-yield burst mana: Frontier Siege, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Dockside Extortionist
Burst draw: Life's Legacy, Greater Good, Hunter's Insight, Rishkar's Expertise, Momentous Fall
Sneak Attack: Sneak Attack allows for lethal to all players off burst draw.

Advantages: Massive card and mana advantages lead to very high inevitability in following turns. Can allow deck to "go off" like a combo deck leading to instant wins with the right cards on board and cards drawn. Can pivot to heavy-damage strategy if cards drawn allow it. Can defeat specialized hate cards more easily with increased card draw.
Disadvantages: Requires more cards than simply ramp and a beater to execute. Sacrifice-based burst draw very vulnerable to counterspells. Low initial damage output can potentially enable opponents to combo off or go over the top of the strategy before you can finish off all players.

[plushpenguin]

I'm squeezing as much power out of my card slots as possible. I am now testing Inkmoth Nexus and extra protective spells such as Vines of Vastwood. In fact, if both are simultaneously available, then vines can turn inkmoth into an evasive and untargetable one-shot on a land. The opportunity cost of this is low.

I will report results when I see them

[plushpenguin]

Changes 02/15/20

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

In (all versions)

1 Dryad Arbor

1 Inkmoth Nexus

1 Vines of Vastwood

1 Ignite the Future

1 Forest

Out (all versions)

1 Blood Mist

1 Return of the Wildspeaker

1 Yavimaya Hollow

1 Mosswort Bridge

1 Spinerock Knoll

Approximate Total Cost:

I've gotten enough testing in to finally feel confident in saying that the card advantage department is not a huge issue anymore. I actually found paying 5 for card draw (without being expertise) and it being conditional to be awkward and went for the MUCH MUCH safer Ignite the Future. This also means that I can cut the hideaway lands because they were more for getting CA in than for cheating in anything.

I need more protection spells too and I can try using Inkmoth plus buffs to throw lethal at people. Running Dryad arbor makes the X tutors significantly better at ramp. Also, I might run into a situation where I can fetch for dryad arbor and have enough damage amp to one-shot someone with it.

I... also got myself a Judge Promo Sylvan Tutor. Absolutely beautiful. It is in both lists.

Lastly, Atarka and World at War are on borrowed time. I'm simply waiting for better cards.

[wrinklykiller]

So, why sylvan tutor over worldly? What am I missing here?

[plushpenguin]

So, why sylvan tutor over worldly? What am I missing here?

I have both.

I need that Godo as often as possible.

[wrinklykiller]

Oops, I knew that... Good call, good call. That promo is gorgeous.

[plushpenguin]

Changes 02/24/20

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

In (all versions)

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Terror of Mount Velus

Out (all versions)

1 Mountain

1 Atarka, World Render

Approximate Total Cost:

I finally picked up a tarn for this deck. This concludes the upgrades for this list until the next set.

I already explained the minor advantages terror has over atarka. However, it will not likely stay long. All I need is a better creature and it is out.

So, despite having the extra card draw, and especially the unconditional card draw, I thought I'd be losing some consistency in exchange for speed, but rather it has been the opposite. The low curve actually makes my hands more keepable and INCREASES consistency. Now I literally see no reason to jam 20 fatties into a deck if you have the budget for sylvan library and tutors. Even if you don't, you can probably stick to 16 or so and be fairly likely to draw into more with a good enough draw suite. As all decks get faster and more refined, the creature quality of our deck matters more and more.

[plushpenguin]

So, I played the blood moon version in a competitive pod with tier 2 competitive decks.

To my surprise, it won 2 games. The first one, I wiped the table on turn 5, the second on turn 7 after a lot of disruption was thrown around.

When I'm not the primary target for the entire game, the deck can do some serious work. Even got a t1 treespeaker countered and still won.

[Rumpy5897]

I can see that happening. My limited understanding of cEDH is that it's bred around a dominant combo/control structure, so the slower decks could easily get zerged by high end aggro like what you've got going on. Still, must have been a nice confidence boost - look at me, taking down cEDH with beefslabs

[Tevesh]

They also feed off of each other, such as with Mystic Remora et. la., so if you go Rogue on the Meta you can get some surprising wins. My Marchesa occasionally beats cEDH Pods because of all of the targeted removal it packs through various means and people using life as a resource means I've got extra reach with all of the random pingers.

I don't know about you guys but I'm hoping for some big beefy mans in Ikoira, there should be something for Xenagos in that set. My understanding of the set is that it's Pacific Rim the MTG set. I hope they make a megazord or something, a Vehicle that can only be crewed by Vehicles to make a true Voltron.

[Ardeyn]

This thread is an awesome resource on Xenagos. Thank you so much.
I never thought I'd enjoy Gruul as much. 😉

What are your thoughts on Once upon a time? Seems like the deck would enjoy cheap cantrips such as these.

In my version of the deck I play Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage which with all the land tutors - I also have Into the North and snow lands - is another great "one shot" with Xenagos.

[plushpenguin]

Another upgrade, and mostly importantly a significant upgrade to the beatstick category. Not the absolute best at straight damage, but it promotes some very dangerous setups that are a somewhat resilient at low cost.

"Quartz Forest Crusher"
2RRG
Creature - Dinosaur Beast
Trample

Whenever one or more creatures you control with trample deal combat damage to a player, create an X/X green Dinosaur Beast token with trample, where X is the damage dealt to that player.

6/6

Absolutely nuts. It's a better 5cmc Giant Adephage. If you connect once with this card, you'll make your very own Ghalta for 0 mana paid and no card required. The ceiling of the card is "win the game" territory. It also is a x=5 gsz target which has been missing for the deck as long as it has existed.

[Rumpy5897]

Glad to hear you're liking this thing too. I just walked it for a couple test games in Ghired. It responds pretty well to being copied, and having three 34/34s is pretty good for defensive purposes before the alpha continues in the next combat

[plushpenguin]

Glad to hear you're liking this thing too. I just walked it for a couple test games in Ghired. It responds pretty well to being copied, and having three 34/34s is pretty good for defensive purposes before the alpha continues in the next combat

If I have Combat Celebrant out when I throw this out, I'll do (assuming celebrant gets blocked) 12, then 24 + 6 damage, usually enough to lethal a player, and also get a 12/12 and a 30/30 trample out of the deal. I'll also still have one mana left over to protect it to ensure this happens.

[plushpenguin]

Deflecting Swat is another card making it into the deck.

It's a free redirect effect as long as you have Xenagod out. Better than Heroic Intervention in this specific deck.

[plushpenguin]

Changes 02/24/20

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

In (all versions)

1 Quartzwood Crasher

1 Deflecting Swat

Out (regular)

1 Terror of Mount Velus

1 World at War

Out (BM version)

1 Terror of Mount Velus

1 Sensei's Divining Top

Approximate Total Cost:

I don't feel like I need to explain all that much why both of these cards are the absolute nuts. However, more interesting are the cuts.

Terror is my last 7 drop, and so it gets cut. The crasher actually will lethal a player in 2 attacks as well, but it puts much more damage on the second attack.

World at War is awkward because in this deck you usually won't take advantage of both combat steps. Also, the lowering of the curve and the adjustment of the deck towards fewer dependent support spells is a relevant concern.

As for my current blood moon build, I cut... top. Top is one of those cards that is mana intensive to use frequently and much better for reactive decks that have the mana to spare. Proactive decks that curve out get much less mileage out of it than Mirri's Guile.

[LDB]

1. Hey Penguin, have you tried Kogla (the ape from Ikoria)?

2. And what do you think of beaters like kalonian hydra?

3. An extra equipment for Godo? There's a high chance he has nothing to fetch if you draw embercleave...

4. Late game: subterranean tremors and oblivion stone?

5. Are you still running heroic intervention since deflecting swat?

[LDB]

In my version of the deck I play Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage which with all the land tutors - I also have Into the North and snow lands - is another great "one shot" with Xenagos.

That sounds cool! Which other land tutors are you running besides sylvan scrying?