Shanid, Sleepers' Scourge

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Yeah, that is the next thing I want to do: get room for the 2 recruiters at least. Ranger-Captain is probably the "worst" of the 3 since it is so limited at the other 2 can get everything Ranger-Captain can and more. The activated ability might be relevant though since, as you said, it can help protect things the turn I want to get Jeska down so that might move it up a bit.

I have been finding that the deck seems fast enough that the equipment are simply too slow. That is, I get a trigger from them but I never attach them. This might change in a real game of course. The main thing though is that the Recruiters are slow too but they offer a bit of consistency which might be good enough.

I might get to the point of cutting Sword of Hearth and Home, Oketra's Monument, Jitte, and Swiftfoot Boots. I think I still want to hang onto Sword of the Animist for now but I could see cutting that as well. Hammer of Nazahn is also questionable but at least it auto-attaches. This also likely means Stoneforge Mystic and Oswald Fiddlebender get cut too. All of this gives me plenty of options for further replacements including the Recruiters and Ranger-Captain. I probably should have Keleth, Sunmane Familiar and maybe even Kataki, War's Wage since I am going down on the equipment so much. I might even want Thalia, Guardian of Thraben to help protect things since that one additional mana can really do some work, especially early game.

I will think on Wayfarer and Mother of Runes. I don't think Mother is quite good enough due mostly to sequencing but Wayfarer probably has some reasonable uses. Especially since I don't have much for ramp so I should almost always be able to activate it.

I think I would have enough cuts to try them anyway. And of course, trying to find a spot for Mob Rule as well.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

After some further thought, I am going to try this:

I bought a Weathered Wayfarer just in case I want to go that route (it would have made it in here if I had another card I wanted to cut) but this series of cuts is based mostly on getting further away from Equipment. I still have 3 left: Skullclamp, Shadowspear, and Hammer of Nazahn. Clamp is card draw and Spear is lifegain and Trample (I am not sure how much the other ability matters). Hammer is still questionable at 4 mana but I wanted to keep it for now.

The additions are based mostly on recent conversations. The 2 Recruiters and Ranger-Captain provide some potential resiliency or versatility in case the main game plan goes south. At 3 mana they are a bit high but they would hopefully not be cast until later anyway so I view them as more for their ability to help me recover from setbacks more so than advancing my primary plan for the deck.

Keleth is just another cheap Legend and one that grows Yoshimaru twice when it enters which seems good. Kataki and Thalia are tax effects that don't affect me a ton. They both affect different cards of mine but I don't think their effects are all that bad for me in general. Especially early on as I am generally expecting to be casting creatures and playing lands.

Mob Rule was mentioned above and is here as a way to help close out longer games. While I am hoping games don't get too long with this deck, I need some sort of long term plan for if (really, when) Yoshimaru is removed.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Well, the first showing for the deck in a real game was pretty bad. I played against Vadrik, Astral Archmage, Karador, Ghost Chieftain, and Marchesa, the Black Rose.

My first hand had a single land, a Mountain, so I mulliganed into a land with 2 lands and Thalia and Thrill of Possibility. I kept it and played Yoshimaru first and then Thrill on my second turn. Luckily this got me into a couple lands so I cast Jeska on my third turn and swung into Vadrik (I attacked Marchesa the first turn just because they had more mana). Then Vadrik attacked into Jeska to kill her and spent about 20 minutes comboing off :/ Which ended up being fine since I used that time to type this all out :P

It was a bad game for the deck either way though. No Legendary lands and Thalia is absolutely *not* right for this deck. I didn't think she would interfere with much but even in this game she messed with Thrill of Possibility and, of course, Jeska (I hadn't even thought of this before). Granted, she very well might have affected Vadrik storming off but, at best, it would have meant they would have had to wait a turn since they ended up with 51 mana to start with and then 463 mana at one point. This was all thanks to Thousand-Year Storm. They eventually won with Crackle with Power for X=93 that they copied with Reiterate for some reason (I stopped paying attention).

In any case, the game was still a good game for a quick test. I know Thalia isn't going to work and the deck really slows down if it doesn't get legendary lands right away.

I am going to swap Thalia for Weathered Wayfarer for now and see what happens in the next game.
2/25/2022
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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Well, the second game didn't go so well either. It started off great but quickly went south. I played against Hazezon Tamar, The Reality Chip, and Zur the Enchanter.

I started off with a 4/4 Yoshimaru on turn 3 with Jeska cast that turn and attacked Hazezon. I really wanted to attack Zur but they had Seal of Removal. I hit Hazezon for 12.

Next turn I went after Hazezon again but this time Yoshimaru was 8/8 thanks to Keleth and Kediss being cast and Keleth's trigger. But Reality Chip cast Pongify presumably so they wouldn't lose 24 life.

After that, I cast Yosihmaru again but Hazezon cast Martial Coup and then killed Jeska. I had a few creatures on the board but nothing significant. And it didn't really matter much as Reality Chip just comboed off with Reality Chip (attached to a creature), Sensei's Divining Top, and two Altar of the Brood. Zur stopped them with Seal of Removal because they let the Seal resolve for some reason. They had Foundry Inspector so Top was free off the top of the library. Zur should have bounced Chip with the Top activation on the stack, but for some reason this stopped them too. Granted, Hazezon had Goblin Bombardment with a few tokens which would have stopped it too so maybe they were playing around that?

They did just reattach Chip but, they didn't re-enter the loop though. I didn't quite get it. I passed my next turn, this time with Feldon around and no longer sick, Hazezon got some tokens and activated Rhys the Redeemed to get more. This only put them at 18 tokens with Reality Chip at 25 life so not quite enough to kill them with Bombardment. But they did a few other things and ended up with 24 creatures. So they just started picking off Chip's creatures. I don't think this was the best option (getting them to 1 and hoping their Mana Crypt killed them seemed better) but I could see the logic. At least, I could see it more if the player didn't already have the mill combo on the field.

Chip ended up still winning of course, but there were a lot of things going on that just seemed odd regarding choices. Mostly ones made by the Chip player. They ended up milling everyone out but the game reset because Magic Online. It was still a dumb game made even longer due to weird decisions by Chip.

Both Zur and Reality Chip were playing bounce (Seal of Removal and Aether Spellbomb) which are pretty devastating to my deck since I am pretty all in on Yoshimaru. I might need to rethink a few things to give me some more late game presence. Goldspan Dragon, Sun Titan, Ao, and Atsushi are all good, but I either need some sweepers or another few big creatures. I might want Karmic Guide which does pretty good work with Feldon of the Third Path and maybe some other creatures. There also might be an argument for something like Rally the Ancestors.

I did have a pretty good play set up with Feldon and Kataki, War's Wage but I needed to activate Feldon in the end step of the player before Reality Chip and the game reset before I could. It wouldn't have done anything since I was milled out but it would have been nice to do "something". It is also worth noting that Winter Orb was on the field so that affected things greatly.

I am going to try another game but this deck might simply have a problem with burning out too quickly. I realize I am all in on Yoshimaru, and I like the aggressiveness of the deck, but I might need to start adding some things to help me reset the boards or recover when Yoshimaru is removed.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Might be worth thinking about a couple anti-bounce interaction pieces? Little Deflecting Swat / Apostle's Blessing type stuff?

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

That is a good idea actually. I hadn't really thought about Swat and I like the idea of Blessing as well. I am not sure how heavy I want to go on that, but they seem pretty solid. I will probably try them out in place of something. Now, to find that "something" to cut :P

In the mean time, I played two more games:

The first game was played against Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Ghoulcaller Gisa, and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners.

Tasigur started off by discarding Golgari Grave-Troll so I swung at them first with a 3/3 Yoshimaru that dealt 9 damage thanks to Jeska and a Chrome Mox to power them out.

Next turn Tasigur got a Narcomoeba from dredging so I just ticked down Jeska and swung at them for 3 more (I didn't have any more Legendary permanents to play so I just played a Weathered Waygarer).

Tasigur cast their commander next turn and then on their turn, for some reason, Gisa didn't attack Jeska when I only had Wayfarer up to block and they had 2 creatures, one they just cast but also cast a Lightning Greaves to give it haste. I think this made the partners player scoop.

On my turn I just attacked Gisa for 12 since I decided to cast Kataki War's Wage. I ended up using it to block Tasigur next turn but they had Stinkweed Imp so I didn't want to attack them. On Gisa's next turn, they attacked Jeska with Gravecrawler so I just blocked with Wayfarer and activated it to get a land. This led to them scooping (they would have died on the swing back) and then Tasigur scooped too so I assumed they had no removal in hand.

I don't think the opponents liked the deck too much but I still feel it is quite glass cannon-y so I don't feel like it is too overpowered at all. The only thing worth noting is that I had to mulligan to 5 due to lack of lands in the first hand and lack of white mana in the second and third hands.

I did get stuck on 0 cards in hand pretty quickly due to this but it is hard to say this is a problem with the deck versus just bad luck on having to start with 5 cards.

The next game went way better overall though. I played against Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Titania, Protector of Argoth, and Krydle of Baldur's Gate.

I started off with probably the closest this deck has to a god hand: Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, Kher Keep, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mila, Crafty Companion // Lukka, Wayward Bonder, and Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire. I played Chrome Mox and exiled Mila to cast Yoshimaru. I then cast Diamond discarding Kher Keep to cast Ragavan and then player Eiganjo.

Next turn I cast Jeska (I didn't have a land drop) and swung at Kyrdle for 15. The following turn they just scooped.

The next turn though Derevi swung at Jeska with a 1/1 and I just blocked it with Rograkh. Then I dropped in 2 legendary permanents and swung at them for lethal. I am not sure why they bothered attacking Jeska as their 1/1 wasn't going to kill it anyway. So, they lost when I was able to get Yoshimaru's power to 7.

Titania put up a good fight though. They used Beast Within to get rid of Yoshimaru and I finally drew a second (technically third) land but I didn't have much for cards in hand. Light up the Stage is what got me the land which also got me a Goldspan Dragon. Ragavan was able to keep hitting since I used Jeska to kill their 1/1 and it was able to get me just enough mana for casting the Dragon. I also cast Thalia, Heretic Cathar the turn before so their creatures couldn't block.

They ended up scooping up after Dragon entered. So, overall a really good game and I even got some good cards to help get me over the hump after Yoshimaru was eventually destroyed. Eye of Vecna was helpful to draw me extra cards (only one this game since I needed the mana for the Dragon) and I am liking the card even if it is costing me 2 mana to draw. That might actually mean I should be doing more with Clue tokens somehow but this is at least stapled to a Legendary permanent.

I do look at this game and wonder what could have happened if Derevi played correctly though. I would have killed their creature still, but they wouldn't have died and I have a feeling they would have been able to outrace me reasonably well especially since they could Derevi as a way to top down Yoshimaru. And since I did end up with basically no cards in hand again, I might not have been able to come back from that. The glass cannon comment still applies to games like this.

So I am going to try out Deflecting Swat and Flawless Maneuver (instead of Apostle's Blessing) and we will see where that takes me. And then see whether the rest of the deck is still able to perform. I have a feeling that the huge target I am painting on myself is not helping things very much.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I forgot guardian of faith. That guy is a beast in my breena deck at saving the tall guys.

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Post by capitacommunist » 2 years ago

Mother of Runes is also worth trying, even though it has some sequencing difficulties. But (manaless) protection is so valuable that I think it is still worth it. I would really play Stoneforge Mystic though; it can always grab a 1 cmc legendary permanent with Shadowspear, which also gives Yoshimaru evasion. Otherwise Skullclamp is also a great target for a slower game.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I think those are fine points overall. I am not sure on Stoneforge but I can absolutely see her potential. In reality, I would expect that about 95% of the time, she is grabbing Skullclamp. Which is probably fine but I tend to shy away from tutors whose sole job is to grab one card. It might be warranted in this case though. 4 mana to draw 2 cards (if I want too look at it that way) isn't the worst and Clamp obviously goes beyond just that. And, of course, SFM is a body to protect Jeska if needed.

Mother of Runes I am potentially leaning more towards. Especially after my latest game (which I will summarize below). I don't think she was absolutely needed but there is something to be said about making Yoshimaru unblockable at the very least. So much so that I am considering Giver of Runes as well.

I will comment more in my next post but I am starting to think that the idea of coming out of the gate guns blazing is ultimately a detriment. I have a few different thoughts on this and how to mitigate it.

For now, here are a few changes I made before the game below:
2/28/2022
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Hammer was already on the chopping block and Delina is sort of slow. I might revisit her depending on other things I might tweak with the deck. And Karmic Guide is here to help get things back and because she works well with Feldon. I don't really like going down the land but that still leaves me at 38. Which should be plenty, especially with Rocks, but I goldfished a game where I mulliganed to three and I either got one or two lands per hand and the ones I got two didn't have any white mana. Even in the game below I kept a two land hand. I am not sure what is going on with that.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I don't like Mother of Runes effects because they tell people how to answer them and do nothing to sweepers. Telegraphed static protection with a fail condition so, so much worse than instant speed protection.

When you slap Lightning Greaves on a 19/19 yoshi the entire table unites against you. When you let people think they can win by having a removal spell and you get'em after you killed their friend, you're a lot more likely to win.

I've never been a huge fan of the suiting up strategy, it just winds up encouraging archenemy. YMMV of course.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I played another game Online. This time against two Isshin, Two Heavens as One decks and a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager // Nicol Bolas, the Arisen deck.

Game Summary

I started the game with 2 lands (both producing White), a Mox Diamond, an Eye of Vecna, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Magda, Brazen Outlaw, and Karmic Guide. On my first turn I cast Mox, discarding a land, , cast Yoshimaru, and then played the other land to get Yoshimaru to 2/2.

Next turn I didn't draw a land so I attacked and then cast Light Up the Stage which got me Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth which I played to cast Eye of Vecna. I used Eye's trigger to draw which allowed me to draw into another land and then cast Magda. I swung at Isshin #1 again (up to 7 commander damage).

Isshin #2 cast Duelist's Heritage and then Bolas attacked me with Thief of Sanity which was given Double Strike. They took my Esper Sentinel and Isamaru, Hound of Konda which did prevent me from swinging into them.

Next turn I just cast Zurgo Bellstriker and Jeska, Thrice Reborn and swung at Isshin #2 since they were shield's down and killed them since Yoshimaru was at 7 power and Jeska made it 21 damage. I debated a while as to what I wanted to do here but the deck needs to kill people so that is what I did.

Interestingly, Bolas attacked Isshin #1 next and they in turn attacked Bolas. Both leaving Jeska alone. I did have blockers but not ones I actually wanted to block with. At least, one of them I didn't want to block with. After Isshin attacked Bolas back, they ended up timing out. I am not sure if it was a legit time out or they just got mad they got attacked. Isshin was attacking me too and the play made some sense as they had Tymna the Weaver on the field and were just trying to draw cards.

In any case, they still got one card for damaging me. On my turn, they had Isshin and Tymna untapped with a couple tapped creatures and a Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs. I drew into, and cast, Thalia, Heretic Cathar which allowed me to attack them without their tokens blocking so they ended up blocking with Tymna which worked out well enough.

But from here we were at a bit of a stalemate. They got down Drana, Liberator of Malakir and then swung into me but I had Karmic Guide to block with (she got me Magda back). They still got two creatures but, again, they were tapped.

On my turn I had Blasphemous Act and Flawless Maneuver in hand. I drew Shadowspear and cast it. I also played a Legendary permanent and got Yoshimaru to a 14/14. I decided to just cast Blasphemous Act and try to bait out anything they might have had. They were tapped out so I didn't expect much but I figured it was better to just let everything die except Yoshimaru and leave the Maneuver in hand just in case. It turns out that it didn't matter and they took 14 more Commander Damage for 21 total and this ended the game.

End of Summary

So, a few things popped up: this deck feels *really* bad early on. That is, killing a player early just isn't a lot of fun for the person being killed and since the deck isn't going to just pick the next two players off quickly, in real life this can be a long slog of a game where one person gets knocked out super early and then has to sit and wait for the game to be done. At least Online that player can jump into another game.

Beyond that, the concern remains that by trying to go hyper aggressive it tends to leave me fairly open for rebuttals. It didn't come up a lot this game but I do think part of that was that the other two players didn't view me as a threat. Or, at least, not enough of one. It is possible Isshin was technically more of a threat than I was so perhaps Nicol Bolas's attack on them was warranted. And I suppose Isshin, at the time, didn't really have enough to swing at me anyway. And, admittedly, by attacking Isshin, Bolas gave them a token that could be used against me later. So, thinking about it, it might have been less about bad threat assessment than it was about just not having enough to come at me with.

On specific cards though:

Urza's Ruinous Blast - This was just awful this game. I am not sure I can use one game as evidence of anything but I had Blast nearly the entire game and not once was it correct to use it. At best, I could get rid of 2 out of 3 of Bolas's creatures (the remaining one would have been the Isamaru they stole from me) but that still left Isshin with 2-4 Legendary creatures depending on when I cast it. I realize it also gets rid of more than just creatures but it wasn't good enough here and wasted a spot in my hand. I think the idea of it fits exceptionally well in this deck. But in a format built around Legendary permanents, both in the Command Zone and the fact that a lot of good cards are Legendary, I have a feeling this scenario will play out more often than I would like.

Imperial Recruiter - This just got me Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar which I think was a reasonable choice at the time. Right after that, Bolas scooped so Kediss wasn't as useful anymore. It still helped Yoshimaru get to 14 power so it wasn't a total loss of course.

Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - This triggered once and got me an Expressive Iteration. Which got me a land, an Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and an Atsushi, the Blazing Sky. I put Atsushi on the bottom but totally forgot what Iteration did and though I got one in hand, one on top and one on the bottom. So I accidentally exiled Elspeth when I thought I would get her on top. I need to learn to read the card....It didn't really matter in the end but I should have exiled the land so I could play it and then have Elspeth next turn to fly over for lethal.

Light Up the Stage - This ended up being pretty clutch in the early game and I sort of wish I could find more that cost 1 or 2 mana that gave me until the end of my *next* turn to play the cards. Reckless Impulse and You Find Some Prisoners seem to be the only other two. Commune with Lava might be good but as an X cost it might be hard to actually get use out of it. That is, 4 mana for 2 cards (for example) can be tough when I am not really leaving mana open too often.

As mentioned above, I do feel that the deck might be *too* aggressive and there might be an avenue to take where I still try to go aggressive but in a more "subtle" way. There is also the idea that perhaps expanding into another color might be warranted as well. Part of this is due to wanting more Legendary lands and other Permanents (I have basically exhausted all the good White and Red ones) and another part is that expanding into basically any other color gives me more draw options.

Of the other colors, Black would lead me to using Vial Smasher the Fierce, Green would have me use Tana, the Bloodsower, and blue would be Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist (as @pokken mentioned earlier). Notably, I still want Red which is why these all still have Red in them. Also worth noting is that Blue ends up being the least desirable (even if it might likely be the best overall) simply because I already have a Jeskai deck I like. And Tana seems like a pretty bad general and I am not sure how much I really need the ramp. Which means I would probably really go for Vial Smasher.

With any of these, I don't get any 1 mana value Legendary permanents beyond Rhys the Redeemed but there are a few 2 mana ones. I haven't gone through them all to see which seem to make sense but I think I could come up with something. And Black gets me Tymna which would be a nice addition.

Otherwise, I might just try to go with a different partner for Yoshimaru though I really don't know what that would be.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
I don't like Mother of Runes effects because they tell people how to answer them and do nothing to sweepers. Telegraphed static protection with a fail condition so, so much worse than instant speed protection.

When you slap Lightning Greaves on a 19/19 yoshi the entire table unites against you. When you let people think they can win by having a removal spell and you get'em after you killed their friend, you're a lot more likely to win.

I've never been a huge fan of the suiting up strategy, it just winds up encouraging archenemy. YMMV of course.
While it is true Mom doesn't do anything against most sweepers, she helps with damage based one. Not exactly common I know. And yeah, I agree that Instant timing protection ends up being better. My thought with those two is that, while telegraphed, they offer more than simple protection from death. First is that I can proactively give Yoshimaru protection and attack unheeded. It is risky, sure, as the ability can be responded to, but if I look at them more offensively, they start to have a bit more to them.

Second, just being creatures offer chump blockers if needed (Mom can then just protect herself) or Clamp fodder (well, not Giver unfortunately).

I do agree on the suiting up strategy putting too much heat on me. It is one of the things I have been thinking of a bit more and one of the things this deck really can't handle. While I am just to reinforce other aspects of the deck, at the end of the day, Yoshimaru is the main win-con and he is very fragile. Mother and Giver allow for some ability to counteract certain things against Yoshimaru even if they aren't very well positioned against sweepers.

I am not entirely sold on adding them of course. I think they would be good but as my last post shows, I am going to look through the deck first and see if it might make sense to try to add another color. If so, they likely don't have a home in the deck due mostly to space.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
2 years ago
While it is true Mom doesn't do anything against most sweepers, she helps with damage based one. Not exactly common I know. And yeah, I agree that Instant timing protection ends up being better. My thought with those two is that, while telegraphed, they offer more than simple protection from death. First is that I can proactively give Yoshimaru protection and attack unheeded. It is risky, sure, as the ability can be responded to, but if I look at them more offensively, they start to have a bit more to them.

Second, just being creatures offer chump blockers if needed (Mom can then just protect herself) or Clamp fodder (well, not Giver unfortunately).

I do agree on the suiting up strategy putting too much heat on me. It is one of the things I have been thinking of a bit more and one of the things this deck really can't handle. While I am just to reinforce other aspects of the deck, at the end of the day, Yoshimaru is the main win-con and he is very fragile. Mother and Giver allow for some ability to counteract certain things against Yoshimaru even if they aren't very well positioned against sweepers.

I am not entirely sold on adding them of course. I think they would be good but as my last post shows, I am going to look through the deck first and see if it might make sense to try to add another color. If so, they likely don't have a home in the deck due mostly to space.
It's worth thinking about them, I think you'll find it's probably wrong most of the time though. They're non-legendary and not instant speed, so it's a hard pass for me. If you can find some legendary effects that protect him like Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier maybe that'd be more the right direction?

re: another color
Try Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist for real, he's so good, and this deck would literally cut off its foot for Fierce Guardianship. I know you've got a jeskai deck already but it'd be nothing at all like Kykar :)

It opens up so many games, draws you cards, and gives you the ability to play a longer game where you try to ding everyone for a few while everyone gets into the combats.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Avacyn might certainly be more what I want to ultimately have. And I get your points on Mother and Giver so we will see where things end up.

I went through the Blue and Black Legendary cards I could add and, for the most part, I think the blue cards are the better fit. I make some significant changes to free up room and I still don't have certain cards I want in the deck (Rift being the big one). I am not sure how much counter magic I want either but it seems like I should have something. Fierce Guardianship is the obvious choice as mentioned, but I might add in a couple more. I want to still be aggressive and holding up mana isn't exactly what I want to do so counter magic isn't the best fit here.

There were a lot of black cards as well but, to be honest, I don't really like Vial Smasher as a commander anyway. I did have quite the list of black cards though and I really would have liked to play with Kroxa. But I will try out the blue based version first and see what happens.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I'd probably look at mono-u counter suite like arcane denial and remand that increase your velocity while being easy to cast. But I don't think you want a ton of countermagic. Maybe a couple mirror breaker cards but not sure (like dovins veto)

There are a ton of cool legends that blue adds that might have applications like niambi (who is a cool ca engine in this deck too).

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Niambi is the main card I am looking forward to since she fits the theme exceptionally well. Here are the ones I am messing around with now. I don't expect all to remain but they are the ones I felt like trying out:
Also, there are a couple Legendary lands but the one I think is the best is Oboro, Palace in the Clouds since it can bounce and replay itself. However, it is freaking expensive in paper so I am not entirely sure if I am going to pick one up (I can hope for a reprint at some point I guess).

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I got in a game online. I won't detail all the changes quite yet, but at least this offers insight into a blue version of this deck. I played against Satoru Umezawa, The Locust God, and Tameshi, Reality Architect.

Game Summary

I started off with a questionable hand. No blue mana, but I had Search for Glory to find it for me. So I kept it. I cast Yoshimaru turn 1 into Kher Keep and Kari Zev's Expertise on turn 2.I swung at Satoru since I assumed they were just playing big stuff and I doubted I could keep up once they got going.

However, they dropped in a Baleful Strix which kept me off of them for a little while. Locust God then used Collective Defiance on Kari Zev for some reason so I just dropped in 3 more legendary permanents (a land, Ragavan, and Ozolith) and swung at them for 6.

No one else was doing much yet so next turn I swung with Ragavan to get a Treasure and I played a fetch land to get blue mana. This allowed me to cast Lavinia, Azorius Renegade and a Thirst for Knowledge from Tameshi. I mainly did this because Tameshi had a Lotus Bloom suspended and this would counter it.

Satoru got down their general so next turn I was hoping to get Yoshimaru to 9 power so I could finish off Locust God (I had hit them for 6 again to get them to 12). I only got him to 8 so I just hit God down to 18 (20 commander damage). Now, if I had cast Lavinia before I attacked the turn before I would have had just enough but I left her back to start with to see what I could get off Ragavan. Maybe a misplay but I really wanted removal for Satoru.

Tameshi scooped it up right before I attacked so I didn't need to worry about them anymore. Satoru Ninjutsu'd in an It That Betrays so I just took the 11. Locust God scooped it up on their turn so on my turn I cast Search for Glory which Satoru tried to counter with Fierce Guardianship. Lavinia took care of that so I went searching and didn't really have much. So, I decided to grab Otawara, Soaring City to bounce Satoru. I could have bounced It that Betrays but I think I preferred them not getting down another Eldrazi as I had ways to handle ITB. This also let me swing at them.

Next turn they tried to recast Satoru so I just cast Arcane Denial to counter him.

They swung with ITB and I sacrificed a treasure and activated Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance to get a token to sac and then blocked with the other token. They were able to get down a Baleful Strix again so I swung with Ragavan and Ludevic. While I didn't really want Ludevic to die, I *really* wanted the Strix to die so I thought maybe I could bait them into it. No luck but them connecting was helpful.

I also cast Karmic Guide to get back Kefnet the Mindful which probably wasn't the greatest but I didn't have many options and I figured Guide could at least block. On their turn they cast Sakashima of a Thousand Faces to get another ITB. Their original swung and I sacrificed a couple more things and then blocked with Karmic Guide and Yoshimaru. Only after the block did I realize how dumb it was to block with the Guide. The reason I blocked with Yoshimaru was because I wanted the ITB dead and The Ozolith let me re-use the counters.

On my turn, I paid the Echo cost for Guide, put the 9 counters on it and swung for 11. They couldn't block since their only flyer was Baleful Strix.

They swung at me again, and cast Sheoldred, Whispering One but had no way to deal with the Guide so I just swung in for 11 again and that was enough to close out the game.

End of Summary

The end of the game, while pretty sweet, was also frustrating since I drew 3 or 4 lands in a row. It was nice to start to draw out of that clump but I was in a position where I didn't have a lot of time as it was. It worked out of course.

I am not sure what I think about this version of the deck. It is slower (obviously) but allows for a more methodical approach to trying to win. And it doesn't paint quite as large a target on my back. It also gives me access to some really good lands and other cards that can help in certain situations. Based on my experience with Otawara there might be a good reason to try to lean into a little more bounce just to make way for Yoshimaru. I am not sure there is a lot of good stuff though for that and I doubt I will only have 1 creature to deal with most of the time.

Honestly, I think my main complaint/issue is the mana base. The Legendary lands are a big part of growing Yoshimaru for "free" but they are pretty close to incompatible with a 3 color deck. I either need to replace as many duals with Rainbow lands or just shore up the mana base so I cut Legendary lands in favor of colored mana producing lands. Although, I might be able to just re-tool some of the existing lands I have anyway without cutting the colorless legendary lands (I have 6 currently; 8 when counting Urborg and Yavimaya). I might need to try that first and see what I can do.

In the end, I did like how this list played out. It is still aggressive and still focused on attacking/dealing damage. But with the Blue elements, it also allows for a bit more of what I like in terms of a certain level of control. Not a lot of course (I really just want the creatures) but some.

I might still end up trying out a black version of the deck as well just to see what it is like but it seems like the blue version isn't too bad. Once I get a few more things fleshed out.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Yet another game. I am not sure what to make of this one for reasons I will call out during the summary. It was against Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh and Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar partners, Yeva, Nature's Herald, and Kykar, Wind's Fury.

Game Summary

I started with a fairly strong hand: Land into Mox Amber into Shadowspear. Next turn I played a land and got down Ludevic and my first attack was at Kykar. Partners was able to suit up Rograkh and do some damage but it never amounted to a lot. There was one turn where Kykar just went *off* and used Mana Geyser into Echo of Eons with a Monastery Mentor on the field and got a ton of tokens. Partners on their turn then just stole them all with Mob Rule and attacked. They put me down to 1 and Kykar down to 11.

Yeva took their turn and didn't do much with it. I had my turn and dropped in Kediss and Svyelun of Sea and Sky and then swung 11 at Kykar to kill them. This caused each other player to take 9 and I gained 27 life thanks to Shadowspear.

Yeva died (thanks to Kediss) when Partners swung at me for 15 commander damage. This put me at 17 commander damage and down to 13 life. I drew into Winds of Abandon and cast it so I could deal the exact 15 damage I needed to in order to kill Partners. They did show me their hand afterward and showed me they had Blood Moon which would have stopped Winds since I didn't have a basic land and only Mox Amber could tap for White. I am not sure it would have been enough since I could still exile Rograkh and I don't think they could give it Haste.

End of Summary

This one came down partly to being a big threat but not completely big enough to outright kill. Unfortunately, the Mob Rule play couldn't kill Kykar so I think they needed me alive to kill Kykar otherwise we would all die to them thanks to all their tokens. It was lucky that play occurred though since I had no way of dealing with Kykar and would have died along with the rest of the table. So, I went from a pretty secure losing position to winning thanks to Mob Rule being cast by an opponent. Interestingly, Mob Rule is not currently in my deck since I needed a cut for other things. It will probably make it back in once I am done testing all the new additions.

I did miss a land drop early on that probably didn't mean much but might have. Who knows. Kykar was just a bit too fast for us to really get a foothold. Well, at least for me to get a foothold. All in all, a pretty weird game but I will take the win and not look a gift horse in the mouth :)

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Here are my thoughts on cards from Streets of New Capenna:

White Cards

Giada, Font of Hope - This is really just a 2/2 Flyer since the effect isn't likely going to mean much in this deck. However, a 2/2 for 2 that can pump up Yoshimaru might be enough to be worth it. I do want to get a bunch of low cost Legendaries on the board as quickly as possible and this fits that reasonably well.

Halo Fountain - This isn't a super aggressive card but it can provide some nice card draw and skullclamp fodder. I am still debating on what I want the third color to be in this deck as it is and this might allow me to push back even towards going back to 2 colors. In any case, it looks like a reasonable card.

Blue Cards

Errant, Street Artist - Again, fitting the idea of low cost legendaries, I can't get much lower than 1. The effect isn't all that great in this deck but Flash and a 0/3 body can help block some damage as needed.

Red Cards

Jaxis, the Troublemaker - This is effectively a 2 drop Legendary that can also end up drawing me two cards (with having to discard 1 for the ability). So, it would be a net 0 in the end but it does potentially provide a way to get more counters on Yoshimaru (targeting a Legendary creature) as well as filtering cards through my hand. I like it. And of course if I cast it normally so I can use it more than once means I should be able to get even more triggers for Yoshimaru.

Urabrask, Heretic Praetor - Definitely on the expensive side but it also gives me a solid "draw" option each turn while messing with my opponents' first draws of the turn. I don't think the last ability is all that great but giving me an extra card each turn seems decent. Especially on a 4/4 Hasty body.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

After further deliberation on where I want this deck to go, I think I am going to eschew Blue. To be honest, one reason is that I only have 4 Tundras and this would be a fifth deck with WU. I also don't like having 2 decks with the exact same colors (though, I might be getting close to dismantling Kykar, Wind's Fury anyway which basically solves both problems). The other side of things is that I feel that with my new Bant deck, I just have too much blue in the rotation and I would like to revisit the idea of trying to make this work as a straight Boros deck. There are some new cards that have been released that might allow for this to function a little bit better. Even without those though, I just want to find a way to make a Boros deck work and this isn't a bad option for it.

With the foray into Blue though I started to realize that going as fast as possible isn't really what I want out of this deck. I still want some elements of that, which might lead me to add things like Serra Ascendant in, but I feel that a better way to pursue this is as something closer to a midrange deck. Not exactly midrange as Yoshimaru clearly wants to be online and kicking as quick as possible. But, slowing the rest of the deck down a little might be worthwhile. Yoshimaru is exceptionally fragile and going too fast leaves me wide open to too much stuff (and paints a huge target on my back). Basically, I think trying to just get potshots in here and there instead of gunning for someone might lead to more enjoyable games. And potentially more winnable games.

This shift in philosophy doesn't change the core structure of the deck: play a bunch of Legendaries that are lower costed to keep things moving. However, it allows for a bit more setup to allow for some card draw, wraths, removal, etc. that I can utilize to try to be a bit more precise in the execution of the deck. Right now, it ends up being a situation where I just throw everything on the field and hope it all works out but it leaves me feeling quite vulnerable and potentially helpless if someone else is actually trying to interact.

Switching gears to something that still wants to run out Legendaries but also has larger ones left in the tank for later seems like a better play. Yoshimaru into Kytheon and Norin is still a good play. But having Urabrask (both of them) and things like Ao or Atsushi to help finish out longer games seems more fun and more attainable.

In the end, I really think that my preferred playstyle (control and/or midrange) isn't completely compatible with a "true" Boros deck but I do believe that there is a way to utilize these colors, and Yoshimaru specifically, in a way that better suits my playstyle.

As part of this, I think I am likely going to switch the Partner out for something else. I still want Jeska in the deck, but perhaps having the partner play more into the midrange-ish aspect would be best. Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder seems like a good balance. Looking through different options, there really aren't many others though. Dargo, the Shipwrecker might not be bad since I will likely have a bunch of smaller creatures to sac eventually, Khorvath Brightflame is a flyer with Haste, though it isn't all that big, and Alena, Kessig Trapper could get me some mana later in the game for some larger creatures if I wanted them.

I don't know exactly where this ends up but I have yet to be really satisfied with any of the directions I have taken the deck thus far and I am hoping a re-imagining of sorts might help.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

With the previous post in mind, here is what I am looking at adding after cutting the blue cards. Note that some of these should have already been there but probably got dropped during the process of exploring Blue additions:
This does leave me at 6 cards over the 100 card limit. I updated the decklist in the first post for now and I will be trying to come up with the cuts somewhere. I do admit that some of the additional card draw might not be that great (not sure on how often I can really activate Endless Atlas for example) but they seem doable. I also don't have any rummaging or impulse draw effects so I will probably revisit those as well at some point

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I finally got a game in online with the new list (updated in the main post; not really sure where I ended up making the final cuts but I got it down to 100 cards). This game was against Shattergang Brothers, Darien, King of Kjeldor, and another Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful deck (they partnered with Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar).

Start of Summary

I had to mulligan to 5 to even get something to play and even then didn't have white mana. It was not a good start but it was better than mulligan to 4 and risking something even worse.

The other Yoshimaru ended up with a pretty good start with Norin the Wary which basically drove the entire game. I had some blockers and was able to finally get white mana which let me outstrip other Yoshimaru's board but I could never get bigger than their commander. Darien struggled on mana but was able to get a Kor Haven on the field (Yoshimaru had one too which really messed with our ability to damage them) so they were able to ward off my damage to them.

Shattergang was likely the best to actually control Yoshimaru since they could have been able to get rid of Norin or Yoshimaru thanks to their board not being that full and being able to make them sac Norin before he was exiled. Unfortunately, they scooped it up so of course they stopped helping.

Darien and I were doing an excellent job (more on Darien's side to prevent damage and me to keep damaging them) in keeping Yoshimaru from winning but then they scooped as well so of course I was thrown to the wolves and couldn't hold up. I tried with Sigrid, God-Favored and Swords to Plowshares but that wasn't enough. The biggest issue was that they had Vorrac Battlehorns and a Menace equipment attached to it so I couldn't block. I never got my own Kor Haven which would have been one of the best ways to get out of this. So I just got run over.

End of Summary

This is another instance where scoops really dictated the flow of the game. I get it, to an extent: I think had either (or both) of the other players stuck around to fight against Yoshimaru, I likely would have ended up as the next biggest threat and my board was far better. Which, honestly, is promising simply because I did mulligan to 5 so getting back to where I was in the game was a pretty big hurdle to overcome. I may need to put a larger focus on the mana base and getting rid of some of the colorless legendary lands in favor of better mana fixing. Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai for example is one that I had relatively early on but it doesn't fix anything.

Either way, I had a lot of fun with the list. I like this one a lot better to not go so low and aggressive and I think it ends up being more resilient for it. Looking at the other Yoshimaru deck that I think might have been trying to go really aggressive, I think that ends up being a mistake. While they did win, they absolutely should not have and I don't think they would have as Kor Haven was enough to stop them cold.

Of course, they did win so it is hard to really be too critical of their build :)

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

With the thought of the lands messing things up, I am going to try these changes:

All of these lands are effectively "tap for C" without much for additional effects. Kher Keep and Inventors' Fair being the exceptions. Kher Keep does get me chump blockers and 'Clamp fodder and Fair can get me Clamp itself. Though, it will rarely trigger and I will rarely get to activate it since I do only have 9 artifacts. Maybe if I want to revisit this I can slot in the two Artifact lands to help it out? These might be worth revisiting if I feel this mana base is working out a bit better but for now I want to cut them just so I can figure out how far I need to go to get back to color producing lands.

Urborg and Yavimaya potentially end up being detrimental just by virtue of fixing everyone else's mana so they are easy enough cuts. God's Eye was mentioned above and Shivan Gorge will almost never be activated. And even if it is, 1 damage is unlikely to be all that impactful in most cases.

The added lands are just here to help fix mana. I think most end up being reasonable though I did leave out Furycalm Snarl which might be alright too. I just like these a little better. Vantage is untapped early and Sundown Pass is untapped later. Both have the potential to be tapped at some point but I think it is worth it. Snarl seems like it could be tapped more often than not just because I don't have a ton of lands that I could reveal to it. At least Retreat works with the lands I already played.

I might end up shifting some more Mountains into Plains just to help more with getting Yoshimaru down early. Or, if I find this is enough for white, I might add back in Kher Keep and Fair to help with getting more artifacts. I am almost positive I am going to cut Endless Atlas at some point as well since it is proving a bit more difficult to get to 3 lands with the same name.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I played a couple games online and neither one went great but the second was better than the first. In the first game I played against Jacques le Vert, Carth the Lion, and Grand Warlord Radha.

Start of Summary

I started off with a decent hand, though not great. I went turn 1 Yoshimaru as normal and swung Turn 2 into Radha. Right after I did so I thought I probably should have gone after Carth so I did that the rest of the game.

The other 3 players ramped, and then I got down Laelia, the Blade Reforged to start "drawing" cards. Carth ended up getting Urborg/Coffers quite early though I believe they tutored for it since they cast Vampiric Tutor twice thanks to Eternal Witness.

I was able to get a pretty good board state overall, and did end up firing off a Winds of Abandon so I could kill a couple of their walkers but it was far too late to do anything. They ended up getting Ugin, the Spirit Dragon with Kaya's Ghostform attached to it and a The Chain Veil on the field. Arguably, Ugin alone was enough to end the game but the other cards just clinched it. And, of course, they ended up with Doubling Season as well. We all just scooped it up here.

End of Summary

I don't think this was necessarily a bad game but none of us had enough to deal with the planeswalkers early enough. Superfriends is already a tough deck to beat in the best of situations but I had a slow start and Jacques le Vert isn't exactly a powerhouse general so we were basically behind the 8-ball the entire time.

I did make a couple changes after this though and then played another game. I will document the changes in the next post so it doesn't get buried. The next game was against Gisa and Geralf, Alela, Artful Provocateur, and Queen Marchesa.

Start of Summary

This game started off with a pretty good hand. I got Yoshimaru down turn 1, followed by Magda on turn 2. Marchesa did have an Authority of the Consuls for the entire game and no one could (or did) get rid of it. This affected the game a lot more than I would have thought just by virtue of eliminating blockers.

Unfortunately, we could never really get the upper hand though I do think Alela had 2 significant misplays. One was to go after my Jeska instead of Marchesa's Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Or, at the very least, they should have gone after both since they had enough fliers. Granted, I forgot Jeska only applied to damage to players so I shouldn't have even cast her, but whatever.

And the other was towards the end when I was at 7 life, I hit them for 8 with Yoshimaru with Shadowspear attached and Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar on the field to get to 23. Now, Marchesa did have Darien, King of Kjeldor on the field so they still got 8 tokens but it at least let me live to the point where I could potentially help out. I suppose I could have left Yoshimaru up for blocking. Not really sure on that.

But then Alela swung at me to put me to 5 and I died on the swing from Marchesa. Marchesa then wiped the board with Fumigate after sacrificing Selfless Spirit. Shadowspear could have ensured this didn't work out that great for them (though they likely just wouldn't have cast it). I don't think these would have changed the game in the long run. Marchesa was just doing too much. In the end, Gisa and Geralf scooped and Alela and I couldn't do enough.

End of Summary

I still think the deck performed fairly well overall. Just a few things that got out of hand that I couldn't keep up. But nothing really came up as being a true problem. Except walkers.

I do think I want to add Farewell (I added Devastating Mastery for now) and then perhaps adding some things in to deal with Artifacts and/or Enchantments. One of the changes below is for that.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Here are the changes I made for the second game above:
5/24/2022
Approximate Total Cost:

I decided to cut Mox Diamond as it is the worst of the Moxen here and since I have moved away from the ultra-aggro aspect, it seems reasonable to get rid of it to make room for others.

Delina is in a weird spot in the deck as 4 mana is kind of a lot and none of the tokens are legendary so they don't trigger Yoshimaru either. I have never actually gotten her on the field anyway. I do like the idea of her and her effect but I want to try a couple other things and she is the least impressive card I can think to cut.

Endless Atlas was mentioned earlier and the effect is just too variable. I can't guarantee I have enough Basics to activate it so it ends up being a dead card too often. Seems like an easy cut here.

Jeska's Will and Light of the Stage just offer more "draw" and Will ends up ramping as well. I am thinking I should probably have Akroma's Will in here at some point as well but this is enough for now.

Mastery is a placeholder for Farewell as I just want some effect for now. And Mastery (or Hour of Revelation) may end up being the better cards in the end anyway. I like the flexibility of Farewell just in case I only need to deal with noncreatures.

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