Queen Breena's Full Contact Politics

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
Aerial Surveyor — ooh baby! Catch up mechanic, here I come! This one just keeps on working, holds +1/+1 counters, and dodges wrath's to keep the beats coming. I'm glad I hadn't quiiite ordered the deck yet.

In the same vein, what do you think about Smuggler's Copter? Has a lot of the same perks!
I like both honestly not sure why I'm not running copter. Seems kinda obvious lol.

Surveyor seems very strong. Awkward being 3 cmc but has evasion and powerful ramp. Definitely going to try it.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
Aerial Surveyor — ooh baby! Catch up mechanic, here I come! This one just keeps on working, holds +1/+1 counters, and dodges wrath's to keep the beats coming. I'm glad I hadn't quiiite ordered the deck yet.

In the same vein, what do you think about Smuggler's Copter? Has a lot of the same perks!
So I remembered finally why we do not play any vehicles in this deck.

It's because they are difficult to activate during other people's turns to get counters on them. That, plus the need for multiple cards for one attacker (a dude to crew and the vehicle) makes them just not good in Breena. Same reason we don't really play equipment -- I could see an argument for trying living weapon equipments but we need bodies. With our high rate of spells (interaction) we have very little room to have things that can't attack without help.

When I sat down and tried to think of how I would put Aerial Surveyor in I realized there is literally nothing I would want to cut for it. The very slightly positive interaction of being able to crew with creatures when they come in is offset by our creatures getting so tall we would rather attack with them than crew stuff.

Hope that is helpful!

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Good catch - my order is coming in this week, and I am glad to avoid playing with frustrating cards in the deck. That would have become immediately obvious when my opponents went to attach each other.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

I got my first round in with this deck last night!

All props and no slops - functioned like a dream come true. I had Esper Sentinel on one, Lightning Greaves on 2, Breena, the Demagogue on 3.

Meanwhile an opponent played Eidolon of Rhetoric which throttled everyone else from playing answers versus developing, and helped me to keep interaction / protection up.

Flawless Maneuver saved me from running suicidally into a deathtouch creature, Prismatic Strands saved me from Blasphemous Act, and the boys just kept getting taller and scarier.

Prismatic Strands also just sat there as threat of activation against alpha strikes - that card is GAS.

The deck just FELT good. Big tall guys swinging and growing and providing card advantage, surgical removal spells, and tons of defense. Highly recommend anyone giving it a spin. Definitely my favorite orzhov experience to date.

Highlight; the Ruric Thar, the Unbowed player "forcing" me to use Prismatic Strands to stop a 17 point attack or take 6 for my spell — just played Selfless Squire instead (then dubbed Selfish Squire for keeping the counters) and killed the player with it the next turn.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I always love playing this deck even when I lose because of how constantly the huge bomb instant effects blow people out. It's rapidly becoming one of my favorites.

I ramped to twelve on turn 4 the other day too off brought back into
Cosmic intervention lol :)

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor seems like a consideration here in addition to Tymna the Weaver. One of the biggest issues I run into with this deck is getting a glut of lands into my hand, or my opponents get something beyond what I'm doing rolling.

Scholar of New Horizons as you mentioned in another thread iss doing everything this deck wants to do, including coming down on turn 2.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor seems like a consideration here in addition to Tymna the Weaver. One of the biggest issues I run into with this deck is getting a glut of lands into my hand, or my opponents get something beyond what I'm doing rolling.

Scholar of New Horizons as you mentioned in another thread iss doing everything this deck wants to do, including coming down on turn 2.
You posted too quickly and forgot Loran of the Third Path.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor seems like a consideration here in addition to Tymna the Weaver. One of the biggest issues I run into with this deck is getting a glut of lands into my hand, or my opponents get something beyond what I'm doing rolling.

Scholar of New Horizons as you mentioned in another thread iss doing everything this deck wants to do, including coming down on turn 2.
Scholar is an absolute slam dunk yea. It has some slightly awkward sequencing with Breena where want to attack with it if you curve it into Breena without a 1 drop. I think the deck might want a higher quotient of 1 drop fliers tbh, :)

Gix is a 3 drop and I don't think does enough -- significantly worse than Tymna. Plus, I really don't want people drawing cards without potentially setting me up to voltron them out with counters.
TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
You posted too quickly and forgot Loran of the Third Path.
Man, Loran is...bananas. We've wanted a Reclamation Sage forever and it's a pretty significant step up. Really nice. Going to play a lot of that card in Ephara for sure.

Interestingly, I am not sure it's good enough in this deck because (as noted with Gix) I don't want people drawing cards unless they're pumping my dudes so I can just kill them. Being a removal spell on a vigilant body is worth thinking about though, vigilance is very very good with Breena, since your growing dudes can block.

3 drops really need to grow huge or do something massive in this deck because my 3 is always Breena, hence why I only have 3 on-curve 3 drops and one of them is just strictly better Breena (Tymna). Heliod, Sun-Crowned and Royal Assassin are both cuttable easily, just pet cards mostly.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

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1 year ago
Man, Loran is...bananas. We've wanted a Reclamation Sage forever and it's a pretty significant step up. Really nice. Going to play a lot of that card in Ephara for sure.

Interestingly, I am not sure it's good enough in this deck because (as noted with Gix) I don't want people drawing cards unless they're pumping my dudes so I can just kill them. Being a removal spell on a vigilant body is worth thinking about though, vigilance is very very good with Breena, since your growing dudes can block.

3 drops really need to grow huge or do something massive in this deck because my 3 is always Breena, hence why I only have 3 on-curve 3 drops and one of them is just strictly better Breena (Tymna). Heliod, Sun-Crowned and Royal Assassin are both cuttable easily, just pet cards mostly.
Yeah, I would play Loran without the card draw, but you don't have to activate it if you don't want to. That said, when I play my similar deck there's someone else typically way out front, and drawing two cards to stop them is just incredible.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

How is Gix worse than Tymna? Tymna is max of 3 cards per combat, and Tymna has to survive to the second main phase, whereas Gix is as many cards as creatures you hit with and want to pay life for, and if you're a little desperate, you can swing him and don't care if he dies, as long as he survives to combat damage with the rest of the team. Also, he plays well with your strategy, since players are going to have to pay life if they want the cards, which is not QUITE as good as pumping your guys with Breena, but it helps lower life totals further. It also could help push players to swing more creatures at opponents, while Breena just asks them to swing 1 or 2 creatures elsewhere--they can swing two away and the rest at you and still get the benefits while also pummeling you (can even swing for lethal at you and still draw first, whereas Gix doesn't allow that).

I would say the two are different, which different strengths and weaknesses, but I don't know that I'd say Tymna is straight up better. Plus Gix has a pretty strong mana sink ability on top of being black Edric, Spymaster of Trest.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

yeti1069 wrote:
1 year ago
How is Gix worse than Tymna? Tymna is max of 3 cards per combat, and Tymna has to survive to the second main phase, whereas Gix is as many cards as creatures you hit with and want to pay life for, and if you're a little desperate, you can swing him and don't care if he dies, as long as he survives to combat damage with the rest of the team. Also, he plays well with your strategy, since players are going to have to pay life if they want the cards, which is not QUITE as good as pumping your guys with Breena, but it helps lower life totals further. It also could help push players to swing more creatures at opponents, while Breena just asks them to swing 1 or 2 creatures elsewhere--they can swing two away and the rest at you and still get the benefits while also pummeling you (can even swing for lethal at you and still draw first, whereas Gix doesn't allow that).

I would say the two are different, which different strengths and weaknesses, but I don't know that I'd say Tymna is straight up better. Plus Gix has a pretty strong mana sink ability on top of being black Edric, Spymaster of Trest.
Gix lets other people draw cards, and potentially go absolutely bananas - you simply can't play it into a token deck. letting someone draw 15 cards is a pretty significant downside.

Letting someone draw 1, or sometimes 2 cards as the ceiling and adding 2-4 permanent power to our board is a lot different than letting someone have their own Bident of Thassa and that requires life payment.

Also, this build of Breena undercommits to the board and will rarely want to swing with more than 2-3 creatures, so the upside of Gix is not that great. Building Breena as go-wide is really questionable in my opinion but if you do it it might be better to use Gix?

The other thing Tymna brings that is subtle is that lifelink is *exceptional* in this deck. You're often racing, and making an 8/8 Tymna can change that calculus very fast.

Gix's activated ability is very strong and definitely worth thinking about, but I would really, really think about giving out a global Coastal Piracy.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I have a lot of other thoughts brewing but I decided to make a few long delayed changes, to add some low cmc creatures who protect breena, plus hilarious tech of Strict Proctor.

CUTS Heliod and Assassin crowd my three drop slot, and though Assassin is *really* good with Lightning Greaves it's really bad otherwise. Heliod is a huge mana sink and also often cannot attack.

Hangarback, I have come to realize, is hot garbage in this deck. An army of 1/1s doesn't do *anything* for me. It's almost never done anything. One time I got 13 of them and they still didn't win the game. I don't have any anthems and I can't play go-wide. Card has been a total dud.

Walking Ballista is worth discussing but I think it even is a bit slow. And it disinclines people to give me Breena triggers. And this deck is not about combos at all.

ADD Strict Proctor has a ton of very powerful benefits that I'd previously neglected. Since I have no landfall and almost no ETBs, Hushbringer has been dominant, but Proctor additionally craps on landfall strategies.

But, it has *positive* synergy with my Lotus Field et. al. package, which is amazing. Curving Proctor into Lotus Vale or Scorched Ruins is a *huge* ramp, and plus it for some reason has flying and curves into Breena. I feel like this card is 100% autoinclude in my build.

Cliffside Rescuer protects breena, and can attack - vigilance is a deceptively powerful ability in EDH and it gets a lot better with tall creatures. Lacking an evasive keyword sucks, but the most common scenario for this guy is to curve into Breena, attack, get to be a 4/4 and then sit there bashing as a 4/4 for the rest of the game while protecting Breena -- incidentally it can also push through damage when you need it, as Breena can struggle to get by flying chumps.

Alseid of Life's Bounty is a nice keyword that protects Breena and this deck is starved for nice 1-drops. Not needing to tap to activate its ability makes it the perfect Breena creature. It creates *slight* awkwardness in that it can't protect Breena the turn she drops, but I think it's worth the risk there. People rarely start killing Breena right away as they often want to cash in on her a bit first.

All things considered I think it's worth trying.



Random Ruminations...

I think this was probably obvious to most people but creatures you play after Breena are pretty %$#% in this deck sometimes. I am giving some serious thought to a curve revamp that cuts the creature curve down very significantly. There's a pretty long list of very nice cards in Breena at the 1-2 drop slot, stuff like Vault Skirge, Oona's Blackguard and Dauthi Voidwalker, Grand Abolisher, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, etc. I think I could pretty much fill out my creatures with 1-2 cmc guys with a few card advantage slots at 3+.

I also am thinking about what my 3-5s really need to do; I wonder if I care about stuff growing giant like Sunscorch Regent or if I'd be better off with a powerhouse board impact like Wandering Archaic // Explore the Vastlands which makes me not quite but nearly immune to countermagic. Cards like Ranger-Captain of Eos and Mangara, the Diplomat provide some much needed protection, additional card advantage, and kind of steer the game in the way I want.

I've also considered a few cards like Suture Priest that put pressure on people's life totals while being early attackers, and more fringe hatebears like Tomik, Distinguished Advokist. Part of me wonders if going all in on Soul Warden effects with some more Blood Seeker or Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim type effects might be OK -- life drain on board wipes can be a pretty good way to clean up the table after nudging people to attack.

If anyone has suggestions for any really powerhouse creatures I missed do let me know.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

I see that you've chopped Crucible of Worlds from your list — makes sense to me, as that has always felt superfluous when playing the deck.

I wish that there were some form of Merfolk Looter in Orzhov, more like an Infiltrator il-Kor really.

Agree with you on Heliod, Sun-Crowned and Royal Assassin and excited by your Strict Proctor find. The deck soooo badly wants to curve a 1, 2, 3 drop into Breena, the Demagogue that any change that contributes to that is welcome.

I will say, however, that 2 of 4 victories with this deck have happened when I incidentally (through drawing nine extra cards) Heliod-Ballista'd out the table.

What are your thoughts on Rankle, Master of Pranks? Having a 4 drop that can enable Breena, the Demagogue could be strong.

While I think adjusting the creature curve down is a good idea, I don't think soul sisters is the way to go with this deck at all. We don't go wide.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
I see that you've chopped Crucible of Worlds from your list — makes sense to me, as that has always felt superfluous when playing the deck.

I wish that there were some form of Merfolk Looter in Orzhov, more like an Infiltrator il-Kor really.

Agree with you on Heliod, Sun-Crowned and Royal Assassin and excited by your Strict Proctor find. The deck soooo badly wants to curve a 1, 2, 3 drop into Breena, the Demagogue that any change that contributes to that is welcome.

I will say, however, that 2 of 4 victories with this deck have happened when I incidentally (through drawing nine extra cards) Heliod-Ballista'd out the table.

What are your thoughts on Rankle, Master of Pranks? Having a 4 drop that can enable Breena, the Demagogue could be strong.

While I think adjusting the creature curve down is a good idea, I don't think soul sisters is the way to go with this deck at all. We don't go wide.
Yeah I agree, wide is almost surely not right.

Heliod/Ballista combo is a pretty solid way to win for sure, just not how I want to be doin stuff with this deck.

Chopping Crucible of Worlds was hard, and I've missed it a few times, but the 3 cmc cost is just bad news for this deck. I've given some thought to playing Jailbreak as another 2 cmc ramp option, with potential upside. Picking a crappy permanent from an opponent feels easy. I've multiple times wanted another way to potentially recur a land though, and often my own stuff is great.

EDIT: Meh, the likelihood of Jailbreak actually ramping on turn 2 is basically none. Skip that.

So interestingly the looter effects I think are probably pretty bad, we really do not want creatures who have to tap to do their thing if we can avoid it, because that means another guy we have to have on the board. I find I can almost always get 2 triggers with Breena and that's usually enough.

I think there are two real good ways to go with breena creatures; stuff like Bloodsoaked Champion and Bloodghast that keep coming back, and then 1-2 cmc sacks of keywords. A 2 cmc vigilant lifelink flier, for example, would be pretty perfect?

Rankle, Master of Pranks was in an early version of the deck. I think it goes *really* well if you're on the Bloodghast plan. And I've been thinking a lot about Bloodghast type stuff, tbh. The problem is breena probably doesn't want to be on Grave Pact so maybe if we're on sac creatures we'd rather be on the 'sac a creature fog' stuff like Circle of Despair or Martyr's Cause?

I ultimately wound up cutting Rankle, Master of Pranks because most of the time it seemed like the right thing to do to make people sac their dudes, and that was counter to my gameplan. When you start removing all of people's stuff instead of reacting, it changes the texture of the game to everyone being after you.

for me, the thing I notice is if I come out of the gate with a strong 1-2 curve and draw 2 cards with Breena, I am winning that game pretty likely. My win rate with turn 1 Serra Ascendant is 100% so far (like 8-0). Wish we had more cards like that (even if not quite so broken).

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

Played a game with Strict Proctor standing in for Royal Assassin and man did it do work! Turns out Scorched Ruins without the drawback is a busted magic card.

Sunscorch Regent also did work this game. I had gotten to a place pretty quickly where I voltroned someone out of the game, but this meant that Breena, the Demagogue was growing much more slowly after a board wipe. This is the first time the regent actually has shown up for me in the ten or so games I've played, and now I finally get why you run these self-growing guys.

I know that you've been discussing lowering the curve and cutting them out - but they are so good post board wipe- and you can just sandbag them until then. I'm even thinking about getting The Haunt of Hightower in there, a card I previously encouraged you to cut!

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Played a game with Strict Proctor standing in for Royal Assassin and man did it do work! Turns out Scorched Ruins without the drawback is a busted magic card.

Sunscorch Regent also did work this game. I had gotten to a place pretty quickly where I voltroned someone out of the game, but this meant that Breena, the Demagogue was growing much more slowly after a board wipe. This is the first time the regent actually has shown up for me in the ten or so games I've played, and now I finally get why you run these self-growing guys.

I know that you've been discussing lowering the curve and cutting them out - but they are so good post board wipe- and you can just sandbag them until then. I'm even thinking about getting The Haunt of Hightower in there, a card I previously encouraged you to cut!
Really glad to hear about proctor. It seems amazingly good on paper


Yeah it is really nice to have some beef that can just win the game on its own and this deck really seems to make those long games where everyone's at 15 and there are a bunch of board wipes and it's slow to rebuild.

Something I'm debating is whether it's better to play more protection or more beef. My suspicion is more instant speed protection for Breena or maybe even tricks like Thrilling Encore might be worth thinking about instead?

I had encore for a while but it never lined up super well, but that was before I had any board wipes of my own. And before the ramp package got so tightened up.

What I would like to do I think is play 3 or 4 copies of Sun Titan tbh :P.

the nice thing about haunt and regent and kalitas is that they're largely independent of what other people are doing or playing. And that makes for nice top decks

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

What are your thoughts on mom and sis? In Noble Shadowheart, you have to protect Shadowheart because otherwise it's an effective 2-for-1 if they can spot remove her, since the background is contingent on the commander proper being in play. I've also found Selfless Savior to be valuable, and you might be interested in Selfless Samurai as well.

On the topic of beef, I think Shadrix Silverquill and other double strikers are incredibly potent with anything that puts +1/+1 counters on them, effectively doubling their effectiveness. After a board wipe resets you, assuming you don't have a protection spell, God-Eternal Oketra followed by Breena, the Demagogue the next turn is a major threat.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
What are your thoughts on mom and sis? In Noble Shadowheart, you have to protect Shadowheart because otherwise it's an effective 2-for-1 if they can spot remove her, since the background is contingent on the commander proper being in play. I've also found Selfless Savior to be valuable, and you might be interested in Selfless Samurai as well.

On the topic of beef, I think Shadrix Silverquill and other double strikers are incredibly potent with anything that puts +1/+1 counters on them, effectively doubling their effectiveness. After a board wipe resets you, assuming you don't have a protection spell, God-Eternal Oketra followed by Breena, the Demagogue the next turn is a major threat.
I think both the moms are *pretty good* - I've spent a lot of time noodling about them. The main issue they have is that tension with wanting to attack and also wanting to remain at the ready. When you curve mom/sis into Breena, you *must* have a 2 drop or it's very awkward.

In general, I think we want to stay away from things that need to tap unless they have vigilance (see Cliffside Rescuer), because they wind up behaving like Smuggler's Copter - they take two cards to make an attacker. Any creature you aren't happy to attack with is sketchy (especially because I'm running like 20 instants or whatever, it's hard to get enough attackers in a deck with so much instant nonsense)

I gave a lot of thought to playing the 2 cmc double strikers (stuff like Adorned Pouncer and Twinblade Geist // Twinblade Invocation ) because of the scaling, so Shadrix Silverquill is an interesting one to think about. Especially since you can give people flying throwaway attackers to encourage them to trigger Breena. That's a really interesting thought. I mostly discounted the stuff in the precon but might be worth another look.

Shadrix is a special one because of having evasion and card advantage. The go-wide buff is kinda useless but you can give it to people who don't need it too.

EDIT: I missed Selfless Savior and Selfless Samurai
Both super playable. Not having keywords is annoying, and only giving indestructible is annoying, but I think savior especially could be good. I wish there were more cards like Guardian of Faith -- a 2 cmc one that phased one creature out would be legit :)

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

Mother of Runes and Giver of Runes have three huge benefits:

1) Protecting Breena, the Demagogue from spot removal
2) Pushing through damage with beef
3) Deterring removal in the first place, which is virtual card advantage since an opponent is forced to point removal elsewhere

True, they have to tap which can be tough in an aggressive deck, and I'm sure they can lead to awkward openers, but I think of them as the "third creature" in play after Shadowheart, Dark Justiciar and my beef, whether it's Knight of the White Orchid or Ebondeath, Dracolich. To me, the pros far outweigh the cons. I think you should test them at least. I would consider cutting a board wipe, as 5.5 (Comeuppance is half a wipe) is maybe excessive in an aggro deck.

I've played both Adorned Pouncer and Twinblade Geist and was reasonably satisfied with both. However, I think the top-end beaters are a little better overall. Maybe the lower cost ones are better in Breena, since you really want to be attacking the turn you play her.

Blacksmith's Skill is a very effective way to save a single creature, especially if someone wipes. They've removed the obstacles for your beater for you. Thanks! Also, you're missing Space Marine Scout, unless you can't stomach 40k cards.

Finally, how do you fare in the 1v1? I'm quite fond of Noble Heritage in the command zone, but Breena is also tempting to try since she offers a similar way to incentivize your opponents to attack each other instead of you. However, I'm worried about the game once I have a single opponent since Breena basically turns off. Do you just hope you've already killed the control player(s) and you don't run into a wipe? Against another aggro or a midrange deck, do you hope your creature quality is higher than theirs?

EDIT: Well, here's my first stab at a decklist. I'm running 25 creatures that cost two or less which gives me a 93% chance to have one by turn 2. If we exclude the creatures I really don't want to be attacking with it drops to 22, which has a 90% chance of happening. I then tried to focus on 4-5 mana creatures to deploy as soon as possible after Breena.


Breena

Commander:

Approximate Total Cost:


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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
ve played both Adorned Pouncer and Twinblade Geist and was reasonably satisfied with both. However, I think the top-end beaters are a little better overall. Maybe the lower cost ones are better in Breena, since you really want to be attacking the turn you play her.

Blacksmith's Skill is a very effective way to save a single creature, especially if someone wipes. They've removed the obstacles for your beater for you. Thanks! Also, you're missing Space Marine Scout, unless you can't stomach 40k cards.

Finally, how do you fare in the 1v1? I'm quite fond of Noble Heritage in the command zone, but Breena is also tempting to try since she offers a similar way to incentivize your opponents to attack each other instead of you. However, I'm worried about the game once I have a single opponent since Breena basically turns off. Do you just hope you've already killed the control player(s) and you don't run into a wipe? Against another aggro or a midrange deck, do you hope your creature quality is higher than theirs?

EDIT: Well, here's my first stab at a decklist. I'm running 25 creatures that cost two or less which gives me a 93% chance to have one by turn 2. If we exclude the creatures I really don't want to be attacking with it drops to 22, which has a 90% chance of happening. I then tried to focus on 4-5 mana creatures to deploy as soon as possible after Breena.
Any game where you curve a 1/2/ into Breena is gonna be a great game. having the 1 lets you pop someone first to get the life totals out of sync which is important. I tend to prefer 2 drops that do something useful like fixing your mana or having lifelink to race, etc.. I think you might be right that our haymakers shouldn't be dependent on breena to get power, but need to think about that.

Loran's Escape seems like a better one but yeah (it's brand new). I do think the deck could maybe use one or two cards like that, since a 20/20 Breena is often worth protecting for a card.

I'll probably grab a Space Marine Scout, but not sure I run it. I like the ones that sequence at 2 for the most part (even if it's Stoic Farmer). But first strike + vigilance is a lot of keywords.

re: 1v1
The deck is really really good at 1v1 because it packs so so much removal. The problem is blue decks. It's so hard to beat countermagic decks 1v1, especially if they're running free ones.

The one weakness really is that Breena stops generating extra cards 1v1, but there are enough other sources of CA that I can usually get there. The problem is usually if you get dropped to 1v1 with a clear board, which rarely happens.

I'll give your list a detailed review but at first glance it looks solid. Only egregious thing I see is Emeria, the Sky Ruin should be in a 13 plains deck :)) I have found it super good.

(LIst Review)
- I have found the karoo/Lotus Field/fetch package to be really good. I think it's pretty correct. Cosmic Intervention and the fetchlands and stuff are real good.

- Guardian of Faith is super good in Breena in my opinion, and should stick around. Protecting Breena from wipes is good.

- Hushbringer is, despite the deck having a few ETB effects, probably the strongest card in the deck short of Serra Ascendant. I think it belongs.

- man thanks for reminding me i need another Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt. bleh. :)

- Noble Heritage does seem reasonably playable here. Cool card.

- Sejiri Shelter // Sejiri Glacier seems really playable, might have to try that as my interactive spell!

- Tenacious Underdog is a cool find, I like that.

- Battle Angels of Tyr seems like a really solid play.

- I probably need to get a Serra Paragon since it's a pretty great replacement for Liesa, Forgotten Archangel - cheaper, lets me play lands from the bin, etc.

- of all the cards I play I think Inkshield is the one responsible for the most victories, again maybe short of Serra Ascendant (which is hard to quantify). I think it's so good it's almost an autoinclude in any orzhov deck (except ones that want to tap out all the time).

All things considered, I am starting to think an "optimal" Breena deck is something like an Edric deck, you want like 15 evasive 1 drops. But I'm not quite ready to go there yet :P I'm trying to do it with cards that do things.

In Summary though, I think:
- you could probably ramp a little harder
- I think there are too many non-evasive derpy creatures. More keywords!
- I think some game closing haymakers will be good. Akroma's Will has been money for me, as has Inkshield

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Note I was super wrong about Strict Proctor . It works for lotus field and basilica but not for ruins and vale. They were rewritten to not be triggers.

The rules text is written as a trigger but retemplated as a replacement effect and I kinda knew that because I knew you couldn't tap them for mana. But the card text got me turned around.

@Chromaticus

I still think I'll play it because it shuts so many things down but it's lame that I misread so bad.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

I somehow completely missed Akroma's Will in the multiple read-throughs of this thread! Seems great, not only for closing, but as yet another protection for the squad.

Would you believe I still haven't played Inkshield?! The only time I've had it in hand, I was rotting under a completely preventable Blood Moon - (plains discarded to hand size) as I played my greedy lands.

I think the biggest change I want to make to my deck is replacing my 3-drops outside of Tymna the Weaver with 1-drops specifically. My 2 drops are set once I add the scholar, and I think I will drop the Boreas Charger in favor of it.

This has turned into my favorite deck to tweak!

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
I somehow completely missed Akroma's Will in the multiple read-throughs of this thread! Seems great, not only for closing, but as yet another protection for the squad.

Would you believe I still haven't played Inkshield?! The only time I've had it in hand, I was rotting under a completely preventable Blood Moon - (plains discarded to hand size) as I played my greedy lands.

I think the biggest change I want to make to my deck is replacing my 3-drops outside of Tymna the Weaver with 1-drops specifically. My 2 drops are set once I add the scholar, and I think I will drop the Boreas Charger in favor of it.

This has turned into my favorite deck to tweak!
It's definitely my favorite deck to play because of how well it plays across a wide spectrum of power levels.

I suspect if you haven't played Inkshield yet you're either:
1) not tutoring for it -- it's almost always my first tutor target
2) tapping out too much -- much like control shells this thing is the hardest to do, but you should almost never be tapping out.

I think I agree with you about the 3 drops. 2 drops with sacks of keywords seriously overperform in this deck.

I am debating adding some more stuff like Vault Skirge and even 1 drop flyers/deathtouchers personally. One that I have on my list is Vampire of the Dire Moon :)

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I found a Nether Traitor in my stuff, man, that's a perfect card for this deck. Haste is amazing! And it self-recurs, which is also sweet. My concern with the two BB cards I want to add is that the manabase may not support making BB on turn 2, so need to do some noodling on that before I add them

Making another small set of changes here to add some cards I wanted to add. Because of the fairly restrictive mana costs I may need to do a little looking at the manabase to make that

CUT Sponsor has been...wild and swingy and fun, but overall horrible. Jailer is a fine card, but I want to reduce my reliance on ETB effects as much as possible.

ADD Hireling mostly dies some of what jailer does but also ramps, and angel also ramps and generates cards and life, which I like. Nice mid-game beef.

I especially like the sequencing with hireling where it Breena can curve into it, make two or three treasures, and then do more stuff. Really nice card.

--

Manabase analysis

To make CC (double color) on turn 2, you need approximately 30 of that color to have an 80%+ chance. That's...a lot. We have like 17 black sources (roughly) and maybe 22 some-odd white sources.

I don't think there is any prayer of this deck making BB on turn 2 if it also wants to make WW on turn 2 (which I do, to support KOTW).

If I want to make it closer I would need to add the filter land Fetid Heath and probably some more dual lands, which dilutes my plains/emeria package. I could add the snowfetchdual potentially. If they ever add the orzhov cycling dual and tango that would really help maintain type counts.

All things considered, I don't think I can support Dauthi Voidwalker in this deck. Nether Traitor with haste is much more likely.
Last edited by pokken 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.


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