Queen Breena's Full Contact Politics

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

I keep coming back to this thread -- very intrigued by this idea. I really enjoy the kind of play where you don't have to overtly politic, but it just happens to be the right move for them -- it's the same reason I really enjoy Dirk's Phelddagrif.

This hits some of the same buttons, and, as you mentioned, in a more proactive way than Queen Marchesa - another commander famous for this style.

Trouble is -- you're working with such an expensive base!

I can gradually accumulate cards, but with some of the more niche things that don't fit a lot of decks, it's a little risky.

Here's what I've got as a budget base -- I would really appreciate it if you'd take a look and see if I've got the tone of the deck correct -- and if it will still do the things I want it to do.
Budget Breena Boxing Bout

Enchantment (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

Basically took out any card over $5ish bucks that I don't own.

I do have fetches, so I should be able to still roll with the less lands theme.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

The main thing is my mana base is nonsense expensive just had this crap a long time.

That said I think the shell of playing a lot of interaction and good stuff to attack with is fine to do with a budget. The mana is more of a side project for me really.

I'd prob add dowsing dagger and spring for maze of ith it's great. You can play gift of estates and oreskos explorer and even birth of meletis to cut the land count down a bit and smooth things out.

I don't love syphon mind. Maybe another cheap evasive dude or a draw dude? I've been toying with running will o the wisp as a resilient beater. Or vault skirge.

This is gonna sound weird but you might want to try to trim the mana base down to so heavy on basics you can play terrain generator. It's a good strategy on a budget and requires 20 or so basics. Add walking atlas maybe.

Brought back and cosmic are very good though but I think you could support both.

Weathered wayfarer is another $10 dude worth finding. Does a lot of work

Fundamentally this deck should be great on a budget because the best budget cards are removal spells. I'd maybe add a few more tbh. I like the despark addition need to pick one of those up.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Cards I'm considering:

My budget is about $250 for a new deck —

Would be great to get your feedback on what is universally useful for more decks.

Probably going to pick up Toxic Deluge for instance because the scaling is so perfect here - and it's maybe best in class for a wrath.

Same deal Land Tax because it can float between decks as well.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
My budget is about $250 for a new deck —

Would be great to get your feedback on what is universally useful for more decks.

Probably going to pick up Toxic Deluge for instance because the scaling is so perfect here - and it's maybe best in class for a wrath.

Same deal Land Tax because it can float between decks as well.
Of those, in order
1. Weathered Wayfarer - This card is almost an autoinclude in any non-green white deck for me. I have a lot of nonsense lands, but most decks are excited to consistently find Maze of Ith or Phyrexian Tower or Terrain Generator as well. Or just a steady stream of fetchlands. I am playing it in four decks atm, to the point I just used my last one :P (ephara, feather, varina and breena).

2. Esper Sentinel - this is lower on the list because it's more expensive, but it's one of the best cards in Breena. "Would you like to pay 7?" "Nooope."

3. Maze of Ith - critically good, better in slower tables on a budget and amazing in Breena. Less critical in other decks, so lower on the list, but I think everyone should own one and they are fairly cheap now.

4. Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale - Any deck with 20+ creatures can use this to ramp pretty reliably and it's quite explosive

5. Land Tax is great and goes in a lot of non-green white decks (sensing a theme?) - in Breena it's more of just goodstuff, because I don't have any Scroll Rack effects to abuse it, but I do use it to shuffle Sensei's Divining Top cards away sometimes.

Budget Note: I should note if you go to buy a land tax, the best way to get one is to buy an italian legends one on TCGplayer. They're hidden behind the language filter so rarely get bought, and quite cheap. There's a damaged one for $18 atm :)

Honorable mentions
Vanishing Verse and Fateful Absence both seem like really solid removal spells I might need to consider. I keep wanting to add more. This deck wins so much due to tempoing people out because the creatures get so tall.

Terrain Generator is just a useful card to have all around, almost every mono colored deck and some two colored decks can support it (usually non-green).

Toxic Deluge has been superb for me, I was not on it originally because I had a "no sweepers" ethos but then my group kinda power-creeped me so I had to tune it up :P Your creatures get so tall, again, so deluge is often onesided. Do be careful about being blocked before you deluge if you're counting negatives. It's a pretty popular card probably the best black sweeper in magic. Bit overplayed** in my opinion but we can usually afford the lifeloss.

**(When I say overplayed it's because so many decks really don't need to be playing sweepers; people put creature sweepers in every deck but they're often not that good if you also have creatures - spot removal or other effects are often better)

--

And one last thought - I didn't see Comeuppance on your list. I'd probably put that first ahead of almost anything else. The way this deck functions, people will almost never attack you until it's an alpha strike, because they want to keep drawing cards off Breena and don't want to eat removal. So you extra punish them with alpha strike wincons like Inkshield and Comeuppance.

Budget Note: The best deal on Comeuppance is japanese versions on ebay. $5. I write out the rules text in english on a little slip of paper and put it in front of my foreign cards. :) Saves a ton of money on cards like Nyxbloom Ancient who are half price or less in japanese.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Wow! Gotta love a responsive thread owner - color me impressed!

So if I'm getting the gist, this deck likes to land a couple evasive dudes including Breena, the Demagogue and keep the card advantage flowing while mostly playing reactive removal spells and holding up protection.

I'm used to more proactive strategies in general, so the thought of holding up Comeuppance / Inkshield mana seemed like time-walking myself. Now I'm considering the draw lands Arch of Orazca Bonders' Enclave and War Room for mana sinks.

I love the alternate version budget advice- makes those bad boys a lot more affordable.

You had mentioned the monarchy playing a part in your deck construction, but I'm just seeing Palace Jailer — is that something you're still on? Figure I can go a little heavier on that theme since I opened up more goodstuff slots.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
So if I'm getting the gist, this deck likes to land a couple evasive dudes including Breena, the Demagogue and keep the card advantage flowing while mostly playing reactive removal spells and holding up protection.
Yeah you got it in one :) The *best* case is you have 2+ fliers and are drawing 2 cards a turn by attacking the 2 people ahead on life. then just chill on those guys and let them get tall off Breena triggers. On average I get 4-6 counters a turn cycle (since I trigger breena twice and someone else does it once), so +6/+6 spread out by 2s adds up to tall creatures very fast. Usually I am to put voltron damage on one person and normal on another.

The most typical play patterns for victories are 1) someone else gets lethal (Craterhoof, etc.) and then dies to one of my combat tricks, 2) someone else has to sweep the board and I play a sweeper protection spell, 3) they just let me kill them with tall dudes (which happens more than you'd expect). Most tutored for cards are Teferi's Protection Inkshield and Comeuppance. This deck just goes crazy with those play patterns because people swing out and then get popped on the crackback.
Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
You had mentioned the monarchy playing a part in your deck construction, but I'm just seeing Palace Jailer — is that something you're still on? Figure I can go a little heavier on that theme since I opened up more goodstuff slots.
My other main monarch card was Archon of Coronation but it just never quite seemed to do it. So many ways around it -- I had a game the other day that I would have lost had my opponent realized that Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist had first trike and could disable archon before the lethal combat damage came through, and I was like "okay, that's enough losing to the quirky stuff that gets around archon." It just kept happening like one game I got infect killed, infinite combos that drain life, blah blah etc etc.

Right now it's just jailer. In a budget deck you could play the land that makes you monarch, and the damage redirection guy is playable Protector of the Crown.

When I get monarch, it's still crazy powerful though.
Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
I love the alternate version budget advice- makes those bad boys a lot more affordable.
I've soaked up a lot of expensive cards just by playing for a long time but I try to be cost conscious. Glad it helps!

I usually use a mix of Ebay, Ebay OBO, TCGplayer, and buylisting to Cardkingdom to buy stuff. CoolstuffInc for foil preorders (which I use for foiling my main deck).
Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
I'm used to more proactive strategies in general, so the thought of holding up Comeuppance / Inkshield mana seemed like time-walking myself. Now I'm considering the draw lands Arch of Orazca Bonders' Enclave and War Room for mana sinks.
Realized I didn't answer this --

So the thing is, even if you don't have a mana sink, you really win either way if people don't make you use Comeuppance because if they don't, your creatures are growing big through the normal action of the game. Board stalls where minimal stuff happens benefit Breena. Your guys grow without spending mana every attack step, which is virtual free mana.

The other thing is you get kind of freerolls after a while playing this deck; if you pass turn with 7 mana up and a couple of flying 8/8s and a 6/6 first strike blocker (say Knight of the White Orchid) people will just not mess with you because they respect the Angel of the Dire Hour. So you get the benefit of the card without having to cast it (and sometimes without even having it). People always look at me when I have 5 and fear getting Inkshielded.

It's a fun political mindgame, and sometimes you lose because of it - we can't stop every combo and sometimes people don't grow our creatures for us or apply life total pressure for us. But most of the time it benefits us either way - if they just sit there not drawing cards off Breena, it's also good for us because there's really only so many things they can be doing and we can answer most of them.

Most control-ish decks in commander do suffer with the 'what do I do with my mana?' but because Breena advances your board state just by attacking and letting others attack you often don't have to spend too much effort doing so.

So you train them to respect your combat bs, then they try to peck you and you Maze of Ith them, then they try to combo you out and you Teferi's Protection or Anguished Unmaking their combo piece, then they try to Wrath of God you and you Guardian of Faith. It starts to generate free virtual cards by people worrying about all the different vectors you can interact from.

Doesn't always go as plan, but the combination of CA + self-growing board lets you just jam a crapload of interaction and hope for the best :)

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago


Mentor of the Meek and Welcoming Vampire are more commit to the board type of cards.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago

Mentor of the Meek and Welcoming Vampire are more commit to the board type of cards.
Y'know I don't hate Ornithopter of Paradise - I've honestly considered adding normal Ornithopter to the deck as a 0 drop flyer is pretty efficient.

Welcoming Vampire and Mentor of the Meek seem mostly overkill to me, same with Keen Duelist. I'm on board with all your cuts - Grateful Apparition wants to go wide too for maximum impact. It's not bad because it's 2 mana flier, but I think you can get a 1-2 mana lifelinker or ramp guy in the place.

I think of your list I might switch Ornithopter of Paradise back in for Vault Skirge and see how that turns out. Let me know how it is, I can definitely see the advantage of a flying ramp creature you can pop counters on :) Vault Skirge is suuuuper efficient though and great for racing, so solid.

I'll definitely be picking up copies of those additional removal spells to try out at some point too. So far I have yet to have my hand clogged with removal, I just use it all :) I'd like to play about 7 copies of Anguished Unmaking.

edit: Another thing I'd love feedback on is how good Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots are. Haste enabling is something I can get behind, probably about the only equipment I have much interest in. They seem like they could be really good at enabling always getting that card draw and opening up some sequences.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Something about being around all my in-laws makes me want to pore over scryfall - what can I say :P

Mourning Thrull is in the same camp as Vault Skirge. Strictly worse, but hey. Actually I think Healer's Hawk is just better.

Killian, Ink Duelist has menace and makes some of the removal cheaper.

Nullpriest of Oblivion is getting a second look because I had read him as a zombify vanilla, but his key words are actually pretty good.

Aerial Responder keyword soup

Indulging Patrician interesting group slug option, flying and lifelink is a good combo.

Lingering Souls couple bodies and comes right back

Needle Specter this one looks pretty spicy along with Oona's Blackguard fun synergy with these two - and if the specter doesn't get removed that's a whole hand discard.

Nighthawk Scavenger keyword soup

Reidane, God of the Worthy // Valkmira, Protector's Shield has a couple good keywords and incidental wrath protection.

Voice of the Blessed - another fun one to dump counters on

Palace Sentinels and Thorn of the Black Rose are the 2 other monarch cards I'm considering. 6/7 mana just seems like a lot for the other ones.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
Something about being around all my in-laws makes me want to pore over scryfall - what can I say :P

Mourning Thrull is in the same camp as Vault Skirge. Strictly worse, but hey. Actually I think Healer's Hawk is just better.

Killian, Ink Duelist has menace and makes some of the removal cheaper.

Nullpriest of Oblivion is getting a second look because I had read him as a zombify vanilla, but his key words are actually pretty good.

Aerial Responder keyword soup

Indulging Patrician interesting group slug option, flying and lifelink is a good combo.

Lingering Souls couple bodies and comes right back

Needle Specter this one looks pretty spicy along with Oona's Blackguard fun synergy with these two - and if the specter doesn't get removed that's a whole hand discard.

Nighthawk Scavenger keyword soup

Reidane, God of the Worthy // Valkmira, Protector's Shield has a couple good keywords and incidental wrath protection.

Voice of the Blessed - another fun one to dump counters on

Palace Sentinels and Thorn of the Black Rose are the 2 other monarch cards I'm considering. 6/7 mana just seems like a lot for the other ones.
Oof needle specter is saaavage. Thorn seems better to me of those two monarch cards.

Honestly I think any mix of these cheap beaters is pretty good but man I might try out needle specter lol that could get into lockdown territory pretty fast.

I am torn on healers hawk vs vault skirge. Skirge not costing any colored mana is nice but we should have white easily. I think any 0-1 cmc flier is justifiable in the end. Since curving out is just great. It's super nice to get two cards on the turn you drop breena.

I think nullpriest might be my favorite of all. Nice endgame usage and menace lifelink is a lot of keywords for 1B.

Really any of those cards is playable. I like killian too. That's legit likely to ramp you a bunch.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Sequences where I 1drop, Lightning Greaves into Breena, the Demagogue and Needle Specter are going to feel absolutely busted.

Curving out for the draw 2 has got to feel really dang good :D

I like greaves way more than boots for that reason - it essentially replaces your 2 drop when you're curving out to Breena.

Thinking something like this:
Decklist

Enchantment (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

Of these cards, I've got the Demonic Tutor, the fetchlands, and Kor Haven.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

That looks really slick. I'm not sure my build with all the expensive crap is better lol :). Watch for Serra ascendant reprint at some point.
Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
I like greaves way more than boots for that reason - it essentially replaces your 2 drop when you're curving out to Breena.
Yeah I think this convinces me, I'm going to add them :)

Oona's Blackguard also seems really powerful. Like that incidental "All my dudes make you discard" effect could really add up. Gonna have to think about that. Really powerful evasive two drop.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

I think I want the Cathar Commando more than I want the Stoic Farmer — and Duelist's Heritage for speeding up my clocks and pressuring life totals.

It feels like I can safely drop to 36 lands, especially with the bounce lands and catch up mechanic. When goldfishing, it actually felt like I was overdrawing- especially any time I got out an Esper Sentinel or Tymna the Weaver.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
I think I want the Cathar Commando more than I want the Stoic Farmer — and Duelist's Heritage for speeding up my clocks and pressuring life totals.

It feels like I can safely drop to 36 lands, especially with the bounce lands and catch up mechanic. When goldfishing, it actually felt like I was overdrawing- especially any time I got out an Esper Sentinel or Tymna the Weaver.
I'd consider Silverblade Paladin for the double stripe enabler - presents a lot more damage, and it's easier to recover. Heritage has some fun breena quirks with letting other people's stuff have doublestrike but I think the potential doubling up of damage is *probably* better? Not sure though. It is higher risk though for sure, so it's really a matter of how much you think you'll be interacted with.

Because the deck draws so many once it starts chugging I'm really hesitant to drop under 37 or so lands that tap for mana because you're pretty unlikely to flood. But if you get stuck on 2 your game is over. (But I should note Maze of Ith isn't a land, and I've also got a lot of juice in the land slot - stuff like Volrath's Stronghold is great flood insurance, but also quite pricey)

I can definitely dig Cathar Commando. More 2 drops is great. Farmer is just part of my obsessive non-mana-screw package - it will get you to a turn 4 Breena even with 2 lands, which very few things do.

I am pretty hyper-sensitive to mana screw so my decks are often 1 or 2 lands cautious, so your mileage may absolutely vary.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

You make a good point - I was thinking, well we draw plenty so I won't get screwed, but it's probably better to think, as long as I don't get screwed, I draw enough to not get flooded.

Silverblade Paladin is an interesting one - but I'm really intrigued to see the decisions people make with Duelist's Heritage. And Breena, the Demagogue for that matter.

Side note: I keep trying to figure this out. What happens if you've got 3 opponents all at 40 when you go to make your first swing? Or 2 opponents at 39 and one at 38? Can you get the draws in case of a tie? Reading is hard.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
Side note: I keep trying to figure this out. What happens if you've got 3 opponents all at 40 when you go to make your first swing? Or 2 opponents at 39 and one at 38? Can you get the draws in case of a tie? Reading is hard.
Someone has to have more. Ties you get nothing. It's been awkward before but most people use fetchlands or ancient tombs or mana crypts these days so it *usually* works out.

scenarios:
3x40 → :(
2x39, 1x38 → attack both 39s draw 2
1x40, 2x39 → attack the 40, draw 1
1 x 40, 1 x 39, 1 x 38 → attack 40 and 39, draw 2.

As long as the player has more life than one of your other opponents, you get cards.

It is more goofy when opponents attack. But the same rules apply - they can only draw 2 if both players have more life than them is the shortcut (for 4 player games, god help you in 5+).

For other opponents;
A: 38, B: 39, C: 40
A attacks B + C for 2 draws (and two pumps)
B attacks C for 1 draw (and one pump)
C can attack b for 1 draw (and one pump) (see this isn't easy to remember credit @Wallycaine

The nice part is if people get attacking it choo-choos around the table :P
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Post by Wallycaine » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
For other opponents;
A: 38, B: 39, C: 40
A attacks B + C for 2 draws (and two pumps)
B attacks C for 1 draw (and one pump)
C cannot trigger.

The nice part is if people get attacking it choo-choos around the table :P
Shouldn't C be able to trigger it by attacking B? Breena, the Demagogue's trigger only requires that the player attacked has more life than another opponent, not more life than the attacker.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
2 years ago
pokken wrote:
2 years ago
For other opponents;
A: 38, B: 39, C: 40
A attacks B + C for 2 draws (and two pumps)
B attacks C for 1 draw (and one pump)
C cannot trigger.

The nice part is if people get attacking it choo-choos around the table :P
Shouldn't C be able to trigger it by attacking B? Breena, the Demagogue's trigger only requires that the player attacked has more life than another opponent, not more life than the attacker.
I got in my own head thinking about ties. You got it :)

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Updated my budget list -- think that list is probably closer to what I'll order initially -- and if I'm really enjoying the deck, then I'll spring for some of the pricier stuff.

I did think of a couple cards that I think are pretty spicy here:

Manascape Refractor and Thespian's Stage. Love that we can use them for Maze mode or big mana mode.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
Updated my budget list -- think that list is probably closer to what I'll order initially -- and if I'm really enjoying the deck, then I'll spring for some of the pricier stuff.

I did think of a couple cards that I think are pretty spicy here:

Manascape Refractor and Thespian's Stage. Love that we can use them for Maze mode or big mana mode.
Very much looking forward to how it goes. Those cheap keyword fliers feel super good.

Manascape Refractor seems reasonable; I think I'd want it more if I was also doing Coffers, but I'm too close to mono white for that to work (70/30 mana split at least). But it's definitely decent and being a maze is cool. I don't love that it enters tapped at 3 mana which is the ultimate dealbreaker for me but it's surely fine to try

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Only played once tonight. I was in a rough spot where I knew with my hand full of lands I could run them all out to Archaeomancer's Map and ramp to 7 or 8 from 3 in one turn cycle. But I had to take turn 3 off of playing Breena to do so. My hand was otherwise stacked with Winds of Abandon Keeper of the Accord and Selfless Squire at the time, so I figured I could wait.

Unfortunately. Hellkite Charger made an appearance an slapped me to 20. So I then had to keep up Selfless Squire instead of casting Breena, the Demagogue with my Lightning Greaves that would have given her haste and gotten my cards flowing.

I chose wisely as I blanked an attack for 15, but then Omnath, Locus of Creation's 4 damage ability pressured me further and I just went out without even resolving Breena on turn 6 or so.

I honestly am so **** tired of Hellkite Courser %$#% out The Ur-Dragon blasting me. I have *so much* removal but just didn't have enough to stop it. Oblation made a brief appearance and was decent (killing his Sneak Attack later that turn as Map dropped me some lands), but I really needed Path to Exile. It's enough to have me considering Condemn for another one mana creature kill spell.

The dragons deck and Breena are pretty equally matched, but I probably need to just mull to removal so I can stuff that first attack which invariably is coming at me because Breena, the Demagogue out grows the dragons so fast :P

Anyway, the deck is playing pretty well and I was very happy to see Lightning Greaves - had I made a different (better) sequencing choice and just run Breena out, I think I would have been in a good spot. I had a very weird sequencing hand of having to play Thawing Glaciers to hit my third land drop on turn 2 though, which made things weird.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

How often does Hushbringer nonbo yourself? It's another one that I had initially dismissed, but just has fabulous keywords.

It's basically only catch up mechanics that we are etb with this deck - if it's a choice between Knight of Meadowgrain and this as my 2 drop, the ramp is the clear choice.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
How often does Hushbringer nonbo yourself? It's another one that I had initially dismissed, but just has fabulous keywords.

It's basically only catch up mechanics that we are etb with this deck - if it's a choice between Knight of Meadowgrain and this as my 2 drop, the ramp is the clear choice.
Dunno it's new. My thinking is I have not that many major etb effects and no death effects so if I have a 9/10 lifelinker that keeps me from getting warstorm surged by dragons it might be good

I play it instead of a 1 drop lifelinker because my curve is a bit worse than yours I think :). It would be bad to shut off our ramp but on the flip side we can make choices around when it's deployed.

I think I'd be less likely to want to try it if I didn't literally get savaged by terror of the peaks every game

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

It is rough when you have a buddy with one strong deck instead of a rotation - have Ruric Thar, the Unbowed player who only has that one deck. Makes lifelink a little higher of a priority :)

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

This deck is really frustrating in 3 player games. It did pretty well tonight but just got combo'd out by Niv with counter backup, nothing I could really have done differently.

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