Help me build an expensive superfriends Angus Mackenzie deck

BHC · Post by **BHC** » 3 years ago

Hello, I'm enjoying my time on this forum, as a quick aside it's been funny I've just gotten back into MTG in a big way and I like coming up with creative ideas and I was browsing through cards and came across the idea of giving up a bunch of turns with Chronatog and dropping Teferi's Protection to phase out with Chandra 1 dmg per turn emblem and win that way, then I came across Lethal Vapors and I was really excited to brew that and I came here and found not one, but two threads with that idea. I guess there really isn't anything new under the sun

Anyway, I've always liked Angus Mackenzie and he seemed to fit into the superfriends archetype, one that I have never played (or played against). I also gather it's not the most popular archetype but I have other decks, this won't be my only one. I also just wanted to make a "prestige" deck. I have a pretty decent collection of cardboard and I wanted one that would mesh well with my favorite card of all time Moat.

Decklist

Approximate Total Cost:

I put everything that seemed like a good/logical idea in and I'm 30 cards over and I feel like I'm lacking a clear way to win other than having a lot of emblems and a couple of flyers who can dink away at things. I could really use a hand here because I don't really know anything about piloting these decks, and don't know what I should focus on. For instance one thing I'm concerned about is do I have too many mana rocks in a deck with green? I tried to look for cards that could grab land types so I could grab dual/shock lands because I barely have any basics to search for but I may have too many rocks and not enough ramp? Too many creatures? Not enough planeswalkers? Any help would be appreciated.

Daylit · Post by **Daylit** » 3 years ago

Hey!
Take everything i say with a pinch of salt, i never built an expensive-type straight-up superfriends list before
First of all I do think that you play too few planeswalkers. I'm not saying play 30+ of them (although it is certainly one way you could change this) just increase it somewhat.

I think you should embrace one of three themes your deck already has a some cards of, and cut down on cards that only really work with those.

First you could go the token route, for which you might need to change a significant portion of the deck. Add more walkers that create tokens, some Viviens, Garruks, other Elspeths, even something like Tezzeret, Artifice Master are good for this plan, and then just add a Triumph of the Hordes or similar and profit. Even though you need to make a lot of space for these in your deck, I think it is the simplest and most powerful way for you to close out games.

Second, if you are already including a bunch of proliferate cards, you could focus more on counter synergies. In this case perhaps a commander other than Angus would be better, since if you are making large creatures, you want to keep the option of a commander-damage kill open. You would need more Ajanis and things like Kalonian Hydra and Crystalline Crawler and Walking Ballista

Finally, you could embrace the heavy enchantment theme more. Now this is the one im least familiar with so i don't really know what would work but something tells me Starfield of Nyx? Estrid, the Masked? Constellation triggers? This route especially favors a possible solution for your mana-rock problem, which is to run land auras like Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl

Also I think if Angus is your leader you could cut back on some of the pillow-fort cards in-deck. Instead, you could use a bit of extra spot removal. Definitely at least a Krosan Grip but some walkers like Ugin, the Ineffable could work here as well.

Post by **SocorroTortoise** » 3 years ago

You could benefit from defining a theme a little more focused than "expensive cards". You have a few cards that are powerful, but not really contributing to what it looks like you're trying to do (stall the board to take advantage of powerful walkers and generate late game advantage). Cutting the flashy, expensive (both CMC and $) cards for less exciting cards that better support your gameplan will make the deck feel better overall.

Potential cuts:

Call the Gatewatch is pretty mediocre unless you up the number of walkers. Under the condition of 13 walkers in deck out of 87 cards, which is probably more optimistic than actual game play most of the time (assumes no ramping with mana rocks and not drawing any of your walkers earlier), you're still going to whiff almost a third of the time and you're only hitting 1 walker about a quarter of the time. That's pretty mediocre for a 6 CMC spell.
Forcefield, Ghostly Prison, and Propaganda don't protect your walkers, only your life total. Between Angus, the walkers, and the other pillowfort effects, that seems unlikely to be in danger all that often.
Old Man of the Sea is pretty low impact here without many ways to increase its power.
Fuel for the Cause is expensive for countermagic. Proliferate is an ok upside, but I suspect 4 CMC will cause more problems for you than it's worth. Consider replacing with spot removal or a cheaper counterspell like Negate.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite doesn't feel like it's contributing to your gameplan. You have half a dozen ways to deter swarms of small creatures already and you don't have much swarm capability on your side.
As much as I like the card, Hanna, Ship's Navigator is glacially slow and you already have plenty of late game value engines because you're walker heavy.
Lighthouse Chronologist is also slow and your commander gives you an incentive to hold mana up. Having a main phase mana sink like this is going to create some internal tension.
Narset Transcendent is unreliable draw and you don't have a lot of great rebound targets. This feels like it's only here to play towards the ultimate, which is usually not a good plan for walkers in a multiplayer game. You want to get some kind of immediate impact from them. Venser, the Sojourner has similar issues - the plus only synergizes with a handful of permanents aside from resetting walkers to starting loyalty and you're not built to take advantage of the minus. Venser doesn't even go off immediately with Doubling Season, so it seems unlikely that you're ever ulting him unless you've basically already won the game.
Gilded Drake giving itself away is actually a problem for this deck some of the time. You only have 2 creatures that block it well before 8 CMC and an evasive 3 power creature is much more relevant against walkers than life totals.

Potential Adds:

Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider has the same combos as Doubling Season when walkers come down and a better effect than Pir, Imaginative Rascal when activating plus loyalty abilities.
You're very low on interaction for noncreature permanents outside of countermagic. Aside from a couple walkers, you have no answers to a resolved artifact or enchantment and no interaction for problematic utility lands. Consider dropping some of the worse lands like the filters, as you already have solid color production (with the possible exception of Mystic Gate to hit the double W and double U costs), for Strip Mine and/or Wasteland. You could also dial back the creature wraths to make space for flexible spot removal like Beast Within/Generous Gift because you have plenty of ways to deter creatures already.
I'm a fan of Eight-and-a-Half-Tails in lists where you already want to hold up mana and have easy access to white. It can protect against both creature combat and spot removal for any permanent, including walkers. It also works as a sticky deterrent just by being on board with mana open.
I'm a big fan of cheap cantrips for this style of deck, e.g. Brainstorm, Ponder, and Preordain. Early, they help you find your land drops and other setup cards. Late, they're inexpensive ways to find the interaction and protection to close out the game.

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

I consider myself the Superfriends connoisseur and I enjoy the many flavors you can get from them.
One of the boons of walker decks is that you can chop and change between them to get a different experience as time goes on.

Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Forcefield, Blazing Archon don't actually help to protect your planeswalkers. These are easy cuts.

Inexorable Tide is too slow and inefficient. Been there, done that. Fuel for the Cause same deal.
Contagion Engine is pretty slow as well.

Deploy the Gatewatch has a 41% chance of hitting 1 planeswalker and 18% chance to hit 2 of them. So it really isn't very consistent given the number of walkers you have.

Just in general when quite a large part of the game plan is to resolve a creature sweeper and then follow that up with a planeswalker(s), keeping your creatures at a minimal can be beneficial.
For example rather than Birds of Paradise you can play like Wild Growth or even Utopia Sprawl as you have access to all the good lands.

Lighthouse Chronologist, Old Man of the Sea, Hanna, Ship's Navigator all fall in the category of not really good enough given wanting to cast creature sweepers often.

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite might as well be a cheaper creature sweeper given that you don't have ways to cheat it out.

Shalai, Voice of Plenty protecting planewalkers isn't that great anyway as targeted removal isn't the biggest concern normally and you're just better off having a counterspell of some kind instead if protecting planeswalkers from targeted removal.
Swan Song and Dispel are premium for this.

As far as additional mana sources I'd cut Chromatic Lantern, Gilded Lotus.
Technically I find Talismans better than Signets because you can use that extra mana on Turn 2. Talisman of Curiosity, Talisman of Progress, Talisman of Unity. Arcane Signet is of course the best of the 2 mana artifacts.
But again I'll bring up Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground as they are better with Replenish and less likely to be destroyed or prevented with hate cards like Collector Ouphe, Null Rod, etc.
Play Three Visits instead of Cultivate.

Reliquary Tower is one of my biggest bug bears in all of commander. Please just trust me and replace it with a color producing land like Rejuvenating Springs, Yavimaya Coast or Waterlogged Grove.

Spending 5 mana on Ignite the Beacon you'd honestly just want to resolve a 5 mana (or less) planeswalker instead. It's just such an anti-tempo card.

Luminarch Ascension is actually pretty inconsistent having played with and against it many many times.

Extra turn cards are pretty nice in walker decks and although they are obnoxious to play against if you can find a slots for Temporal Manipulation and Time Warp.

A card that I'm huge on is Mystic Sanctuary. Now in a 3 color deck it's pretty hard to run, however you do have all the good basic land type duels and fetches so is definitely worth considering. It is a really powerful tool to have when you've already cast say a Supreme Verdict or Terminus and then you can use a blue fetchland to get Mystic Sanctuary to then cast it later on in the game for a clutch play.
It also goes infinite with Venser, the Sojourner exiling Mystic Sanctuary and putting Capture of Jingzhou back on top for unlimited turns. Or just keep putting back a creature sweeper so that you can emblem Venser, the Sojourner.
I'd replace Interplanar Beacon with Mystic Sanctuary as Beacon will trip you up on not fixing colors for the rest of your spells.

As far as the planeswalkers themselves you've got a great bunch. As I said one of the best things about Superfriends decks is that you'll get to chop and change to try out different ones to give it a bit of variety. The following are ones that eventually you should give a try (imo).
Teferi, Master of Time - Activating planeswalkers in opponents turns is strangely very satisfying. Honestly one of the most fun moments in my playing experience has been a Teferi, Temporal Archmage emblem. But Teferi, Master of Time gives you a little teaser of that.
Teferi, Time Raveler - Cheap walker with tempo and can be used to resolve a big spell.
Ajani Unyielding - Has supporting role of giving other planeswalkers ultimate potential and has card advantage and removal.
Jace, Architect of Thought - With Doubling Season you can ult straight away and get another walker to ult AND get cards from opponents libraries which is hugely satisfying looking at all the juicy spells opponents have. Has card advantage and a certain level of protection with -1/0 at other times.
Garruk Wildspeaker - has always over-performed my expectations. The additional mana can be a huge factor in games, and the 3/3 Beasts can really protect it sometimes.
On a more focused theme you could look to leverage with Estrid, the Masked and Calix, Destiny's Hand with your relatively high enchantment count.

BHC · Post by **BHC** » 3 years ago

Thanks for the advice, I definitely needed to focus up. Instead of trying to cut that deck down I just took the lands and rebuilt it from scratch, easier that way, I hate cutting. I incorporated some of you guy's suggestions.

Decklist

Land (36)

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bountiful Promenade

1 Forest

1 Island

1 Kor Haven

1 Maze of Ith

1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Mystic Gate

1 Plains

1 Polluted Delta

1 Reflecting Pool

1 Rejuvenating Springs

1 Savannah

1 Strip Mine

1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

1 Tundra

1 Wasteland

Planeswalker (18)

1 Ajani Steadfast

1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

1 Jace, Architect of Thought

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Karn Liberated

1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave

1 Narset Transcendent

1 Narset, Parter of Veils

1 Nissa, Vital Force

1 Oko, Thief of Crowns

1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher

1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage

1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria

1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

1 Venser, the Sojourner

Sorcery (11)

1 Austere Command

1 Call the Gatewatch

1 Farseek

1 Nature's Lore

1 Ponder

1 Preordain

1 Skyshroud Claim

1 Supreme Verdict

1 Terminus

1 Three Visits

1 Urza's Ruinous Blast

Creature (7)

1 Arena Rector

1 Captain Sisay

1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails

1 Peacekeeper

1 Pir, Imaginative Rascal

1 Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider

Commander (1)

1 Angus Mackenzie

Enchantment (13)

1 Humility

1 Moat

Instant (10)

1 Brainstorm

1 Capsize

1 Counterspell

1 Dovin's Veto

1 Enlightened Tutor

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Generous Gift

1 Krosan Grip

1 Mana Drain

1 Swords to Plowshares

Artifact (5)

1 Contagion Engine

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mana Vault

1 Sol Ring

1 The Chain Veil

Approximate Total Cost:

This is what I ended up with. I don't have any signets or any other artifact acceleration other than the big 3, not sure if that's a mistake. Also I don't know if I should cut a few lands with the other acceleration I have.

The main things I'm worried about missing is Oath of Nissa and Deepglow Skate along with Mystical Tutor and Teferi's Protection. Oath of Nissa seems the least valuable of those, at least on face value.

darrenhabib wrote: ↑
3 years ago

A card that I'm huge on is Mystic Sanctuary. Now in a 3 color deck it's pretty hard to run, however you do have all the good basic land type duels and fetches so is definitely worth considering. It is a really powerful tool to have when you've already cast say a Supreme Verdict or Terminus and then you can use a blue fetchland to get Mystic Sanctuary to then cast it later on in the game for a clutch play.
It also goes infinite with Venser, the Sojourner exiling Mystic Sanctuary and putting Capture of Jingzhou back on top for unlimited turns. Or just keep putting back a creature sweeper so that you can emblem Venser, the Sojourner.
I'd replace Interplanar Beacon with Mystic Sanctuary as Beacon will trip you up on not fixing colors for the rest of your spells.

I actually already cut Interplanar Beacon before I'd read this but I didn't replace it with a land. What do you think about replacing reliquary tower with Mystic Sancatuary instead of a dual?

darrenhabib wrote: ↑
3 years ago
As far as the planeswalkers themselves you've got a great bunch. As I said one of the best things about Superfriends decks is that you'll get to chop and change to try out different ones to give it a bit of variety. The following are ones that eventually you should give a try (imo).
Teferi, Master of Time - Activating planeswalkers in opponents turns is strangely very satisfying. Honestly one of the most fun moments in my playing experience has been a Teferi, Temporal Archmage emblem. But Teferi, Master of Time gives you a little teaser of that.
Teferi, Time Raveler - Cheap walker with tempo and can be used to resolve a big spell.
Ajani Unyielding - Has supporting role of giving other planeswalkers ultimate potential and has card advantage and removal.
Jace, Architect of Thought - With Doubling Season you can ult straight away and get another walker to ult AND get cards from opponents libraries which is hugely satisfying looking at all the juicy spells opponents have. Has card advantage and a certain level of protection with -1/0 at other times.
Garruk Wildspeaker - has always over-performed my expectations. The additional mana can be a huge factor in games, and the 3/3 Beasts can really protect it sometimes.
On a more focused theme you could look to leverage with Estrid, the Masked and Calix, Destiny's Hand with your relatively high enchantment count.

I've added some more walkers, would you swap out any of them for the ones I haven't added such as Teferi, Master of Time, Garruk Wildspeaker or the two you mentioned at the bottom? I can cut Inexorable Tide I could drop contagion engine for one as well, I just liked the double proliferate and perhaps the chance of wiping out a token army.

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

BHC wrote: ↑
3 years ago
The main things I'm worried about missing is Oath of Nissa and Deepglow Skate along with Mystical Tutor and Teferi's Protection. Oath of Nissa seems the least valuable of those, at least on face value.

I actually already cut Interplanar Beacon before I'd read this but I didn't replace it with a land. What do you think about replacing reliquary tower with Mystic Sancatuary instead of a dual?

I've added some more walkers, would you swap out any of them for the ones I haven't added such as Teferi, Master of Time, Garruk Wildspeaker or the two you mentioned at the bottom? I can cut Inexorable Tide [/card] I could drop contagion engine for one as well, I just liked the double proliferate and perhaps the chance of wiping out a token army.

You only have 3 creature sweepers and Urza's Ruinous Blast for non legendary so Mystical Tutor could actually be pretty important.
But it's not that great in your deck because you don't have much instant speed draw. Mystical Tutor can be turned into a Mana Drain if you have Brainstorm type cards in tight spots. But you should play it anyway, Terminus is the real deal.
Temporal Mastery would help to make the Mystical Tutor sweeter as well.

Teferi's Protection is pretty awesome, I'd personally find a slot for it.

Cyclonic Rift over Capsize all day long.

You're probably a little walker heavy now, I'd go with 15 or 16. I'd cut Nissa, Vital Force and Elspeth, Knight-Errant.
Honestly it doesn't matter which walkers you change around a bit between game nights. So I wouldn't say you must play the ones I suggested at first but do give them a try for your own experience at some stage.

Without Seedborn Muse the Karn's Bastion and Contagion Engine are significantly worse (basically unplayable). Angus Mackenzie can't be a fog every turn either. You should play Seedborn Muse.

I know Eight-and-a-Half-Tails was suggested but I don't think they factored in that you really want to hold up wug for Angus Mackenzie. It's just too mana intensive to operate both.

Krosan Grip I'd make Nature's Claim.

You should play Academy Rector still, it is a really great incentive to stop attacks at certain stages and Doubling Season, Moat, Oath of Teferi being premium targets.

Inexorable Tide is just too slow. Give it a test yourself by all means, but just giving you the heads up.

Mystic Sanctuary isn't looking as good anymore without Capture of Jingzhou and Replenish.
To make it work I'd replace Karn's Bastion and Strip Mine for Mystic Sanctuary and Prairie Stream.

BHC · Post by **BHC** » 3 years ago

Thanks for the indepth response, here's where we are after most of your suggested changes. What would you cut to get Temporal Mastery and Mystic Tutor in? I'm looking at contagion engine, mystic remora, and Peacekeeper (much as I love him) as potential cuts.

Decklist

Land (36)

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bountiful Promenade

1 Forest

1 Island

1 Kor Haven

1 Mana Confluence

1 Maze of Ith

1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge

1 Mystic Gate

1 Plains

1 Rejuvenating Springs

1 Savannah

1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

1 Tundra

1 Wasteland

Planeswalker (16)

1 Ajani Steadfast

1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes

1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

1 Jace, Architect of Thought

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Karn Liberated

1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave

1 Narset Transcendent

1 Narset, Parter of Veils

1 Oko, Thief of Crowns

1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher

1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage

1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria

1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

1 Venser, the Sojourner

Enchantment (12)

1 Doubling Season

1 Grasp of Fate

1 Humility

1 Moat

Creature (7)

1 Academy Rector

1 Arena Rector

1 Captain Sisay

1 Peacekeeper

1 Pir, Imaginative Rascal

1 Seedborn Muse

1 Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider

Commander (1)

1 Angus Mackenzie

Sorcery (13)

1 Austere Command

1 Call the Gatewatch

1 Capture of Jingzhou

1 Farseek

1 Nature's Lore

1 Ponder

1 Preordain

1 Replenish

1 Skyshroud Claim

1 Supreme Verdict

1 Terminus

1 Three Visits

1 Urza's Ruinous Blast

Instant (10)

1 Brainstorm

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Generous Gift

1 Mana Drain

1 Nature's Claim

1 Swords to Plowshares

Artifact (5)

1 Contagion Engine

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mana Vault

1 Sol Ring

1 The Chain Veil

Approximate Total Cost:

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

BHC wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Thanks for the indepth response, here's where we are after most of your suggested changes. What would you cut to get Temporal Mastery and Mystic Tutor in? I'm looking at contagion engine, mystic remora, and Peacekeeper (much as I love him) as potential cuts.

I think Mystic Remora, and Peacekeeper are excellent for this build, so I'd just replace Contagion Engine with Mystical Tutor and that's it, deck done!

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Oh I didn't mean for you to put the Replenish back in. You don't have enough enchantments anymore to warrant it.

Also now that I think about it Search for Glory is technically better than Call the Gatewatch. You should play Snow-Covered basics with this replacement.

Post by **SocorroTortoise** » 3 years ago

darrenhabib wrote: ↑
3 years ago
I know Eight-and-a-Half-Tails was suggested but I don't think they factored in that you really want to hold up wug for Angus Mackenzie. It's just too mana intensive to operate both.

Nope, that was intentional. The initial list of considerations had a few Dueling Grounds style cards, which make 8.5 Tails a functional replacement for Angus that can also protect not just walkers but other permanents from spot removal as well. It also plays better with cards like Moat and Peacekeeper than Angus. It is definitely niche to begin with and it's substantially worse as you move away from effects that limit the number of creatures able to swing at once. It's also admittedly mana intensive, but the initial list was lower on card draw and higher on permanents, so protecting a board state without having to invest additional cards had more value. I don't think it's as good a choice with either of the later lists.

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