Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[Supersprite]

I think a swarm is a good plan because its what makes varina worth it. More zombies is more cycling. Morr life. More game.

Lazotep reaver is gold. Late game? Pitch it to ashnods altar make 4. Draw 1 from cryptbreaker. I dunno. Kind of a bad argument. Same can be said about a 5 mana card wich is dead early game.

Luckily there are many cheap zombies to get varina going. Too bad just 3 for 1 mana that make the bar. Stitchers supplier is a beautiful alternative for windfall.
For the 2 mana zombies i especially like skirk ridge exhumer, plaguebearer and apprentice necromancer. All 3 kind of sleeper staples imho.

Right now i play 12 1or 2 mana zombies, but most are 3. Currwntly thinking of mana rocks. Got 2 signets and 2 talismans nrxt too sol ring and jet medallion. Thinking bout heralds horn or urzas incubator too make the 5 mana zombies cone out quicker..

Isnt the m19 zombie kind of a bad allhammerets archive? Well not bad. Different. Requires more thinking. I will play it but im sceptic. Ugh when i play it ill also have ro play tomebound lich next to it. When jm done building varina i can make another zombie deck with all the zombies i have accumulated :/

[boer0829]

I don't think Bone Miser is a bad Alhammarett's Archive. They both do different things but they work very good with Varina. Bone Miser might clutter the already filled 5 cmc but I think hes worth playing because of the advantage he gives. I agree dropping lots of low cmc zombies is a good strategy for swarming the board because you can attack early with a lot of zombies and take good advantage of Varina. Lazotep Reaver looks genius. 2 zombies for 2 mana is very good for building board presence.

Also low costed cost reducers are something to think about. You can drop expensive zombies earlier. On the otherside when you are already playing a lot of low cmc zombies, why the cost reducers? They only take up space in your deck?

[toctheyounger]

So, yeah, swarm is good. To a degree, to my mind. I generally think with any deck committing every resource you have to the board is a mistake and opens you up to effective wipes - especially early game where you are less likely to have mana spare and open. Couple that with the fact that we can't exactly swarm like Krenko and it becomes a bit more laborious than I'd like.

Add to that the non-optional Varina discard and it becomes a pretty risky endeavor to swarm heavily. Sure, you gain some life, stand a good chance to do some damage and draw into stuff, but you're also chucking a lot in your graveyard at once. It makes dropping Bojuka Bog or spellbomb really worth it. It's definitely a 'great risk, great reward' scenario, and if it bombs it has the potential to leave you with no opening to win.

My preferred start to the game is some early drops and swinging with 2-3 critters once Varina hits play - or some early draw, say from remora or similar. That way I've still got presence, I'm not seen as an immediate threat, and I can sculpt my hand based on what's going on elsewhere on the board. I can still toss some chaff or reanimation targets, but I'm not putting enough in the yard to tease out exile tech, or committing to the board enough to make a wipe worthwhile. And I'm still gaining enough life to make my position defensible. Not only all of this, I'm giving myself time to hit land drops and rocks to curve nicely into some reanimation, hopefully with some mana free. It makes no sense at all to stack your yard turns before you can make use of it.

In terms of card choices I think Lazotep Reaver is reasonable. I cut my copy because I felt I didn't need the extra body and wanted more control options early. I've tossed up Stitcher's Supplier before, but I prefer to be in control of what I toss, especially early game - that's a hangover from Dralnu reanimation, but it's put me in good stead. I think Plaguebearer could be good, IF you have the mana to drop on its ability, because XX adds up quickly. For something nice and simple I really like Putrid Goblin too. Early presence, resilience, and combo with Mike, a sac outlet and a bleeder in the late game. I could also see a space for Unsettled Mariner meta dependent; if there's lots of control in your meta it'd be a lock.

I don't think of Miser as Archive mini - they're both working different metrics. Both seem great in that they're getting you value from something that's going to happen anyway. Granted you probably have more versatile value from Archive, but it doesn't give you mana to play with or bodies in play, so in that respect they're very different cards. I also often find Archive bites removal a LOT, so I'm definitely going to try Miser out for value in a different part of Varina's spectrum. Being able to turn discard into value is too good not to try.

Tomebound Lich I'm torn on. It has some reasonable intrinsic value. It's a rattlesnake. It loots for us when it connects. But it also drops at the same point that a zombie Lord would, and they're reliable value. Death Baron means ALL of my zombies are rattlesnakes. And they all loot anyway, so it seems redundant to add this guy in. I could be reading this wrong, but I'm happy for someone else to prove me wrong.

Cost reducers - yeah, they can be good depending. I think it's worth weighing up what they add. Urza's Incubator I think is dead weight here, purely because a lot of our creatures are heavily colored, so you'd be better off with colour fixing at the same CMC. Herald's Horn I could see pulling some weight, purely because it fixed your top deck, which could be handy in a miracle/Second Sun build. Undead Warchief comes with a buff which makes up for its CMC to my mind, but ultimately we're not playing dragons here - the colorless component of a lot of these guys isn't really significant, and if your curve is low anyway why bother? Hit your land drops and some rocks and you need not worry about it. Especially if you can cheat them in from the yard.

As an aside, had a nice early win yesterday; played Nissa, Vastwood Seer and elfball Rhys the Redeemed. Hit some early zombies in Cryptbreaker, Corpse Knight and Wayward Servant. Curved these into Varina and swung about a little, sculpted my hand with Patriarch's Bidding and Citywide Bust. Waited for Rhys to drop Joraga Warcaller, played bust, kept swinging a little. At this point I had two lords, Gary, Relentless Dead, Varina, and a couple of other pieces in the yard, as well as the two bleeders and Liliana, untouched by death in play. The Nissa player has been busy pinging my lands with Woodfall Primus, so before I lose my chance I cast bidding. I name zombies, Rhys names elves, Nissa names eldrazi as a joke. Gary hits each for 17, and the two bleeders hit for 8 each, which is enough to close out the game with me on like 90 life and a full board.

[Supersprite]

Plaguebearer is there vs tokens. B: gone, it reads. Edh has a lot of relevant tokens. Zombies, wolves, dragons, elephants, elfs, goblins. Feels very rewarding shooting them down at minimum cost.

[toctheyounger]

Plaguebearer is there vs tokens. B: gone, it reads. Edh has a lot of relevant tokens. Zombies, wolves, dragons, elephants, elfs, goblins. Feels very rewarding shooting them down at minimum cost.

Makes sense. Seems a meta call again. If you see elfball or Krenko it's a snap.

[blinx28]

Currently eyeing Relentless Dead swap for Unsettled Mariner...always tough choosing to flat switch 2-drops or try to lower curve and lose some heavier value. Sad to lose the ministax, but ultimately hoses very specific decks and has no effect on many others.

Going with Vengeful Dead pull for Bone Miser....I know it's won games but it feels a lot like when I had Rooftop Storm and Liliana, Untouched by Death where i mainly had them in for each other with no reliable way or speed to execute the combo. Tombstone Stairwell already triggers heavily with the other bleeders, of which there are now still 4-5 redundant options. It's a 4-drop too so unless I'm playing against zombies as well, it's just a bit expensive and narrow for its ceiling.

Interesting thought about the token buster—my only issue is overall most meta's token decks go wide vs tall, so the B = token murder really loses efficacy if the number of tokens exceed 3-4.

[toctheyounger]

Currently eyeing Relentless Dead swap for Unsettled Mariner...always tough choosing to flat switch 2-drops or try to lower curve and lose some heavier value. Sad to lose the ministax, but ultimately hoses very specific decks and has no effect on many others.

As a bit of feedback around Relentless Dead, it's decent, but if you're in any way expecting it to die leave mana open. She's thirsty for sure.

Going with Vengeful Dead pull for Bone Miser....I know it's won games but it feels a lot like when I had Rooftop Storm and Liliana, Untouched by Death where i mainly had them in for each other with no reliable way or speed to execute the combo. Tombstone Stairwell already triggers heavily with the other bleeders, of which there are now still 4-5 redundant options. It's a 4-drop too so unless I'm playing against zombies as well, it's just a bit expensive and narrow for its ceiling.

Totally understand removing this. The reason it stays for me is it acknowledges all zombies, not just yours. So it's a great with Stairwell as we all know, but zombies are popular anway, It won't come up all the time, but some for sure. For myself, I believe this is the card that I'll cut Havengul Lich for.

The token killer I'll probably leave personally. It's just not in my meta.

[blinx28]

I hate to say it, but how do we all feel about God-Eternal Oketra?

It's been cool to slam it down and know it's coming back no matter what...but the double W, 5CMC, and needing to cast creatures after turn 5 is seeming a little slow in my build. Sad to say it but it may see the chopping block once Arcane Signet comes out if my goal is speed. Removing a really powerful but slow triggered ability for another cheap fast mana rock feels lame but will probably up my win percentage.

Anyone anecdotally able to sell me on keeping it in the build?

[toctheyounger]

I hate to say it, but how do we all feel about God-Eternal Oketra?

It's been cool to slam it down and know it's coming back no matter what...but the double W, 5CMC, and needing to cast creatures after turn 5 is seeming a little slow in my build. Sad to say it but it may see the chopping block once Arcane Signet comes out if my goal is speed. Removing a really powerful but slow triggered ability for another cheap fast mana rock feels lame but will probably up my win percentage.

Anyone anecdotally able to sell me on keeping it in the build?

Totally get it, personally. Partly what's kept her in the build for me is her resilience and double strike keywords. The cast trigger is far more useful on Diregraf Colossus because it drops earlier, but I guess 4/4's are nice (they also enter untapped, and that's not nothing). It's likely I will consider removing her for Bone Miser once that drops, purely because it can be abused more freely. I wish I could give you some anecdotal justification to keep it in, but the truth is I haven't seen her enough to get a good feel of whether she should stay or not.

As far as more rocks go, generally I think it's a good idea. Being able to drop a couple early and get ahead on your curve makes a big difference in UBx, it made an ENORMOUS difference to my Dralnu build, even after removing Paradox Engine. Specifically, because so much of Varina's momentum is tied into combat, I think it's worth doing this anyway, purely to get bodies in play asap. It might be boring, but it's pragmatic and helps with redundancy in planning your game out.

[Supersprite]

God eternal bontu has my blessing over oketra. Ill play it to get over a dead point and sac and draw some fresh cards.

Ancient tomb should be in any commander deck.

Also.. patrician's scorn is in my deck now. A free spell that destroys all enchantments. For free. If you played a white spell, then again our general is part white. Seems good. T4 you want to drop varina, but im often busy with stabilising the board. A free remove all pesky enchantments may help and favour aggro decks like zombies. So its in!

Im eyeing intuition, seems stupid good. If it only was cheaper..

[toctheyounger]

God eternal bontu has my blessing over oketra. Ill play it to get over a dead point and sac and draw some fresh cards.

Ancient tomb should be in any commander deck.

Also.. patrician's scorn is in my deck now. A free spell that destroys all enchantments. For free. If you played a white spell, then again our general is part white. Seems good. T4 you want to drop varina, but im often busy with stabilising the board. A free remove all pesky enchantments may help and favour aggro decks like zombies. So its in!

Im eyeing intuition, seems stupid good. If it only was cheaper..

I've yet to try/acquire Bontu, but he seems decent. I like that he scales to your boardstate in draw ability - you need not leave yourself with nothing. Personally, I'm going to give Oketra another couple of entrances in-game to prove her worth and see how that goes.

I disagree re Ancient Tomb. It's great in most decks, sure, but I don't see a place for it here. There are few decks I've ever run that are as colour dense as this one, so Tomb is entirely irrelevant to me. Given the choice of Tomb or an equivalent value replacement I'd 100% take Nykthos, or maybe Deserted Temple - I'm pretty sure I could get both for the cost of a Tomb in fact.

Definite agree with Intuition. Card is nuts. In a deck like this it takes the relative fairness of Fact or Fiction and throws it out the window. It's one of those cards I'd love a couple of copies of. That being said, I'd put it in Dralnu before I'd put it in here; purely because Dralnu is more surgical reanimation than Varina, she tends towards mass reanimation. Speaking of that, in terms of spot reanimation here perhaps Entomb could suffice for Intuition? It's come down nicely I. Price and it's a seriously great value card.

[Supersprite]

True, only entomb would be another gravecrawler 90 percent of the time, seems a bit comboish to my taste.

Planar rebirth seems good wirh enough windfall effects. I tend to discard lands a lot with varina when the engine works.. wouldnt it be awesome to conclude that with a 2 mana spell ? Getting some basic lands in play for acceleration would be sweet. I will test it.

[toctheyounger]

True, only entomb would be another gravecrawler 90 percent of the time, seems a bit comboish to my taste.

Planar rebirth seems good wirh enough windfall effects. I tend to discard lands a lot with varina when the engine works.. wouldnt it be awesome to conclude that with a 2 mana spell ? Getting some basic lands in play for acceleration would be sweet. I will test it.

Yeah, I get that. It's one of those cards that will do what your deck wants though - in Dralnu it grabs a control piece for me, be it Void Winnower, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur or a draw critter. Here it'd be something like Gravecrawler, an aristocrat, Diregraf Colossus or maybe Gary, whatever suits the occasion. I'm fairly certain my deck iteration doesn't combo, but even if it does I choose not to use it that way. Totally get what you're saying though, Intuition introduces some choice, and that's pretty fun. It's why FoF is one of my favourite cards.

Planar Birth could be great, actually. I do the same, turfing lands I don't need right away, so it'd be nice to be able to utilize them other than turning them into zombies. Let us know how that goes, it could be awesome acceleration.

[Kvothe]

Hi everyone.
Zombies was my first commander deck back in 2011. Started with Thraximundar and hopped around for a while before setting on Sidisi Brood Tyrant.
After spending some years without a Zombie deck and having upgraded my collection to a couple cEDH decks I decided to try to rebuild the deck.

Varina is a nice upgrade over Sidisi. She facilitates the same strategy which I like and the recent pingers are a nice addition.
It's nice to come here and find you guys are playing something similar. Although I pushed it more towards filling my graveyard and winning with mass reanimation and ping/Gray merchant triggers as quick as possible.
My list is yet unrefined and has minimal testing, but I've been liking it so far.
I don't run lords because I find them slow and the +1/+1 is not too relevant in my opinion.
Need to add a removal suite.
I'm conflicted on the counterspell issue. On one hand they could prevent other players from winning/protect us, on the other I'm unsure if running a small density of them makes them ineffective.
I value the Altars highly because in conjunction with Sidisi and Bontu they allow me to cast consecutive mass reanimation spells.
Speaking of Bontu, it's great highly recommend.

My list: https://archidekt.com/decks/138698#Zombies

[toctheyounger]

Hi everyone.
Zombies was my first commander deck back in 2011. Started with Thraximundar and hopped around for a while before setting on Sidisi Brood Tyrant.
After spending some years without a Zombie deck and having upgraded my collection to a couple cEDH decks I decided to try to rebuild the deck.

Varina is a nice upgrade over Sidisi. She facilitates the same strategy which I like and the recent pingers are a nice addition.
It's nice to come here and find you guys are playing something similar. Although I pushed it more towards filling my graveyard and winning with mass reanimation and ping/Gray merchant triggers as quick as possible.
My list is yet unrefined and has minimal testing, but I've been liking it so far.
I don't run lords because I find them slow and the +1/+1 is not too relevant in my opinion.
Need to add a removal suite.
I'm conflicted on the counterspell issue. On one hand they could prevent other players from winning/protect us, on the other I'm unsure if running a small density of them makes them ineffective.
I value the Altars highly because in conjunction with Sidisi and Bontu they allow me to cast consecutive mass reanimation spells.
Speaking of Bontu, it's great highly recommend.

My list: https://archidekt.com/decks/138698#Zombies

Thanks for the interest! Happy to have another voice to discuss all things zombie.

Regarding the lords, I run them particularly because I consider my build more mid range than anything else. I've got the reanimation, and the filtering, but ultimately I added them because Varina's trigger means we need to swing; might as well make it as favourable as possible, right? I added Eldrazi Monument for the same reason (really is great with Gravecrawler about).

In terms of removal, I figure it really depends on your meta - personally, I've tried to cover as many bases as I can with some spot removal in Swords to Plowshares, Return to Dust, Anguished Unmaking and Generous Gift, as well as a few sweepers in Citywide Bust, Austere Command, Kindred Dominance, Supreme Verdict and the ubiquitous Cyclonic Rift. These are by no means staple, I think we're in good colours for plenty of other options, this just covers the bases I want covered. As far counters go, I think it's worth having the option, but again it's totally a meta call. If you have spell slingers in your group it's worth having some answers. Our removal can make their growth hard, but ultimately some things need to never resolve. In terms of density of counter spells, again....your meta dictates that. For myself I have a couple which I more consider part of my wider control in removal, wipes and counters, but it's really a question of how much you can actually fit into the deck and still have it work.

I agree, the altars are great as instant sac outlets - I've purposely left out Phyrexian Altar, as I'm not a combo player, and with Gravecrawler in the build that philosophy goes out the window once that particular altar hits. Personally, I like Ashnod's Altar and Carrion Feeder for ramp and a low curve zombie that doubles as a sac outlet (respectively), but I like the idea of Bontu too. I'm hearing enough good things I really ought to try him out. I do wonder how well he works when the chips are down, though - you're not going to sacrifice things you need, and if you're struggling, is he any use?

I like the look of your list. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about some of your inclusions:

• Dread Wanderer - how often does this come back for you? I try never to let my grip get that empty, personally.
• Fatestitcher - Is there a tap/untap permanent I missed in your list, or is it purely for unearth?
• Graveyard Marshal - this is one I missed from M19 - if I exile from my yard for tokens, I almost exclusively don't exile creatures, purely because I can reanimate them. It's a nice 2 drop, but it seemed superfluous to me.
• Yawgmoth, Thran Physician - how has the great Father of Machines worked out? I've built a separate list for him, and it's kinda....nuts, honestly. He's great card advantage with removal. I guess if there's a parallel for removal from my list it's Archfiend of Ifnir, which I'm fairly happy with. I miss the draw of Yawgmoth, but he's just too good at the helm of his own deck.
• Flux - How has this worked out? I've just removed Windfall and Whispering Madness from my build as they were a little too much, but this is scaled quite nicely to sculpt your hand with a little more precision, so it could be a good option.
• Call to the Grave - Seems a tad slow to me, how has your experience with it been?
• Endless Ranks of the Dead - I've tried it in the past, and can highly recommend replacing it with Tombstone Stairwell. Where Ranks is super slow and vulnerable, Stairwell is just bonkers, and your pingers will love it.

[Kvothe]

Thank you for your response

I built the list as a concept to see if Varina felt better heading the dump in my graveyard, reanimate plan. Mainly because of the flavor, Zombie Apocalypse every time, but also because it feels really strong.

So this being my first list I left removal to after I refine the list/concept. Your suggestions are good though. I would favor Utter End and Vindicate over Generous Gift because a 3/3 blocks most of our creatures. I also found that in my playgroup someone will usually wrath for me.

I may try Eldrazi Monument again. I played in previous versions and it's good as wrath protection.

For myself I have a couple which I more consider part of my wider control in removal, wipes and counters, but it's really a question of how much you can actually fit into the deck and still have it work.

Totally agree. There's also the consideration that you'll see more cards than usual because of the filtering.

Phyrexian Altar is important because it adds colored mana. I don't use any infinite combos in my deck and still find it worth it.
You can argue that I play the deck somewhat like a combo deck, but for this one I didn't want to go with straight A+B=instant win.

Bontu, I found that I always have some tokens or 1-2 drops that can be sacrificed. I guess worst case scenario you don't use the draw trigger and when you reddraw it maybe able to do so, but I was never forced into that situation.

Dread Wanderer: Actually never used the ability. I was just trying to up my density of early drops in order to be able to get at least 2 triggers from Varina. I'm not too happy with him.

Fatestitcher: Is actually a remnant from the Sidisi list, where I used to unearth it to cast Dread Return on Balthor. It's cutable.

Graveyard Marshal: Is in the same boat as Dread Wanderer, got in the list for the density of bodies and the two black mana symbols on the cost. I'm not happy with him either.

Yawgmoth has sac: draw a card. That's really strong, netting cards and triggers.

Flux, Windfall, Whispering Madness and Ancient Excavation are part of the turbo mass reanimation plan. I haven't draw all of them yet but the rationale for including them was that Varina on the second cast is really expensive, and she I find I need the effect. That reminds me that I'm stealing the Archive for my list. It's expensive but helps alleviate a lot of the card disadvantage.

Call to the Grave, Endless Ranks and Grave Pact are pet cards from my days of 60 cards casual decks. They did work in my early EDH decks so I gave them a chance.

I do love Stairwell and it's in my list, makes me consider adding Vengeful Dead to the list. He is the worst of the pingers but actually is better with Stairwell.

Thanks again for you input. I look forward to follow this thread.

[RedCheese]

My list is also based in mass reaniamtion as win condition. But i still have the lrods in the deck to have relevant bodies that will still give power to my tokens. Also i love the zombie lords, my favourite cards in the deck. They are still relevant and are still some of the stronger zombies so they aren't useless even played in a normal way. I guess my list a mix of midrange, mass reanimation, control and combo? I might ttake out the combo part because it feels lame to win in that way. Probably gonig to replace Phyrexian alatr with Ashnod's altar to prevent easy Gravecrawler loo0p. Still keeping Rooftop Storm tough, its stil a very pwoerfull card and has other uses and having one combo won't hurt.

Love Varina for the versatility she provides for Zombie tribal.

[blinx28]

Looking at my deck, I see it winning 3 ways:

Mass Reanimate + Triggers
Combat
Gravecrawler + Phyrexian + Pinger loop: I never look for the combo (although i just added Demonic Tutor so it might get more tempting....only there for when a game stalls mainly).

I initially ran Call to the Grave and other cards like Liliana's Mastery that are objectively good cards, but they're expensive and don't always warrant a slot since my meta runs crazy fast mana and tutors. To be honest Varina is a tough deck to hold it's own in that group of players because of how fast they go off. That's why I run 15 cards between counters/target/mass removal. Spend my midgame cycling and responding with Varina if I can and presenting a minimal threat on-board until i strategically deployed Tombstone Stairwell or a mass reanimator (ideally run the stairwell, then you can order upkeep triggers, have it trigger THEN don't pay upkeep so you get them one last turn to help all the zombie synergies pop off).

[toctheyounger]

snip

Most welcome, I very much value the discussion! I think you're right to leave your removal suite till you see how the list shakes out and fits into your meta, that seems reasonable. If you find yourself keeping the wheels with Windfall et al, I cannot recommend highly enough how devastating Archfiend of Ifnir is. It's just a straight up wrecking ball. I can understand not running it on the basis that it isn't a zombie, but if that's not an issue, trust and believe it will clear the board for you. Regarding Alhammarret's Archive, I was on the fence for some time. It's somewhat of a dependent card, in that you can't drop it in a clear boardstate and expect wonders, but whatever you're doing when you do have presence, it will make it better. That just means being careful when you cast it is all.

My list is also based in mass reaniamtion as win condition. But i still have the lrods in the deck to have relevant bodies that will still give power to my tokens. Also i love the zombie lords, my favourite cards in the deck. They are still relevant and are still some of the stronger zombies so they aren't useless even played in a normal way. I guess my list a mix of midrange, mass reanimation, control and combo? I might ttake out the combo part because it feels lame to win in that way. Probably gonig to replace Phyrexian alatr with Ashnod's altar to prevent easy Gravecrawler loo0p. Still keeping Rooftop Storm tough, its stil a very pwoerfull card and has other uses and having one combo won't hurt.

Love Varina for the versatility she provides for Zombie tribal.

It's why I love the deck too - there's no solved way to build Varina. She can do some pretty cool stuff, but she's versatile as all hell. I've considered making this thread a primer, but ultimately because there isn't a fixed way to build her it presents a lot of work filling in the gaps, and I'm not even entirely sure my thread represents the best this commander has to offer.

Personally, I think there's an argument that my deck splits hairs and doesn't fully commit to any strategy fully, but that's fine by me. The looting is as precise as I can make it right now, the token generation is relatively efficient and quick, and the reanimation is as strong as is currently available. I like being able to change tack when needed if one strategy gets nerfed, say by Bojuka Bog. That's probably a reflection of the fact that most of my games currently are online against rando's on untap - life is hella busy. But it works for me, and it's fun to play and that last point is the main consideration for inclusions here.

Looking at my deck, I see it winning 3 ways:

Mass Reanimate + Triggers
Combat
Gravecrawler + Phyrexian + Pinger loop: I never look for the combo (although i just added Demonic Tutor so it might get more tempting....only there for when a game stalls mainly).

I initially ran Call to the Grave and other cards like Liliana's Mastery that are objectively good cards, but they're expensive and don't always warrant a slot since my meta runs crazy fast mana and tutors. To be honest Varina is a tough deck to hold it's own in that group of players because of how fast they go off. That's why I run 15 cards between counters/target/mass removal. Spend my midgame cycling and responding with Varina if I can and presenting a minimal threat on-board until i strategically deployed Tombstone Stairwell or a mass reanimator (ideally run the stairwell, then you can order upkeep triggers, have it trigger THEN don't pay upkeep so you get them one last turn to help all the zombie synergies pop off).

That's a tough meta to compete in. In those sort of games I find myself committing enough board presence to generate some draw and find key pieces, hold removal for expected plays, and wait for people to run out of gas. Often once a combo deck has shot it's shot, if it didn't win it's out of tricks, and that's where running a midrange build can surprise people. We're like the zombie - survive at all costs and win through resilience. the amount of times I've had this:

said to me is hilarious.

[Supersprite]

" Its why I love the deck too - there's no solved way to build Varina. She can do some pretty cool stuff, but she's versatile as all hell"

I kinda disagree. No deck is the same in edh but if seen hundreds of decks in my quest for fun strong cards and synergies, and a lot of varina cards are in every list, more than with the other decks i played. I do my best to try cards others dont play. Of course she has routes but i think combo is hands down the best with added tutors ans stuff. Still we try aggro withouth tutors- mostly because we want to have fun with an awesome tribe!

I get your comment on alhammerets archive- i didnt liked it or saw need for it first- ut there is a reason its in almost all lists! Play zombies play varina drop archive, attack= profit!
Works just like archfiend of ifnir, drop it before you attack and win ground.

Another card that requires timing and i love (art awesome too) i memtioned earlier. Patricians scorn. If you casted a white spell the turn its free. So it will be free of a varina cast. It destroys ALL enchantments. Free. So it will hurt us sometimes but others will be hurt more. Plus we control the effect. Dont waste removal on enchantments. Scorn them.

Now i need to make a god play with archive and ifnir in play casting varina, attacking, then scorning them.

[toctheyounger]

I kinda disagree. No deck is the same in edh but if seen hundreds of decks in my quest for fun strong cards and synergies, and a lot of varina cards are in every list, more than with the other decks i played. I do my best to try cards others dont play. Of course she has routes but i think combo is hands down the best with added tutors ans stuff. Still we try aggro withouth tutors- mostly because we want to have fun with an awesome tribe!

Well yeah - every commander has ubiquitous must add cards. I more meant that there is no one archetypal build that is clearly superior. She can do pure tribal aggro, mid range, swarm, combo, stax. Even in combo there's tons of options - reanimation loops, Storm, life gain Aetherflux shenanigans, mill/lab man, there's plenty of choices. You've brought up a lot of cards I wouldn't have otherwise considered yourself, so I think to a degree we both have points here.

[blinx28]

Highly recommend making room for Authority of the Consuls. It goes off with stairwell, forcing all theirs to come in tap and gain you a life for each.

Let that go around the table once mid-late game and you're way up.

[toctheyounger]

Highly recommend making room for Authority of the Consuls. It goes off with stairwell, forcing all theirs to come in tap and gain you a life for each.

Let that go around the table once mid-late game and you're way up.

That's.....interesting and I should've picked it up before now. Cool interaction, and it's something you could run for value otherwise anyway. Nice stuff.

[Kvothe]

Authority of the Consuls doesn't seem worth it. The interaction with Stairwell is ok but not super powerful, and it's the only reason to run it.

How do you guys feel about cards that leverage the discard part of Varina like:
Gisa's Bidding
Grave Scrabbler
From Under the Floorboards
Sevinne's Reclamation

Opinions on draw engines like Bident of Thassa and Coastal Piracy? I'm going to cut Skullclamp, it doesn't feel as powerful as it used too.

[blinx28]

Authority of the Consuls doesn't seem worth it. The interaction with Stairwell is ok but not super powerful, and it's the only reason to run it.

It comes down early game, and since this deck relies a lot on combat to trigger Varina and do damage---can't say i've ever been unhappy to see it in my hand. Holds our opponents back from blocking our attacks for a turn, as well as turns off any haste shenanigans. It's been a very cheap and effective stax piece for me, The incidental lifegain cannot be overlooked if you're in a creature/token heavy meta.

How do you guys feel about cards that leverage the discard part of Varina like:
Gisa's Bidding
Grave Scrabbler
From Under the Floorboards
Sevinne's Reclamation

I've foregone the token maker spells when i committed to optimize around zombie tribal I use those slots for utility creatures with synergies. If you're mainly going for a swarm, they could be valuable.

Opinions on draw engines like Bident of Thassa and Coastal Piracy? I'm going to cut Skullclamp, it doesn't feel as powerful as it used too.

Clamp nonbos with zombies since they're 2/2s, it's only broken when it essentially reads "Pay 1, sac a creature: Draw two cards". Curious about those draw spells as well. They're a bit more conditional than the 5 drop draw spells but very powerful when you connect.