The Scarab God

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Reaper_RM
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

This is a little brew that I want to upgrade/overhaul into something really dirty. Thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
If you suggest a card, also suggest what you would take out for it and why.
The Scarab God

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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 3 years ago

I would check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23798&hilit=The+Scarab+God
I made a couple of long winded comments in here that probably would be useful to you

and this thread: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=333 Primer on zombie tribal

You currently only have one targeted removal spell. I think this is the first area to look at.

Also, pick up a Liliana's Standard Bearer ASAP! This an amazing card and one of the best zombies you can run. In fact, you should pick up like 10 of them. :P
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

Update:

Complete overhaul done. Took awhile to get it done cause of life and all. Anyway, as always thoughts and suggestions are welcome.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

So, I really like the idea of The Scarab God in the command zone. He's nasty, and having a way to reduce commander tax is crazy good.

Full disclosure, if you're looking to make the nastiest and meanest SG deck possible, I don't necessarily think tribal zombies is the absolute best way to do it. I would go for a nasty Dimir control shell myself. Nonetheless I can still see some things in here that I can feed back on.

Here's what I see as some of the weaker things in the list:
Value creatures
Gisa and Geralf - I've run these guys at the helm before, and they're in a weird place for zombie tribal. Their ability just isn't enough to generate value from the options that zombie tribal gives you. If you want this ability, I would recommend Liliana, Untouched by Death instead.
Havengul Lich - This guy can be really good, but he costs a crap ton of mana to make use of. I personally don't have a place for him in my Varina list, but I do run a pretty lean mana package. If you find yourself with a surfeit of resources and he fits your meta, by all means run him.
Gempalm Polluter - Honestly, it's just really hard to make this guy decent. Cycling him, sure, but how do you repeat that effect? Reanimation won't do it, you need him back in hand, and that means running cards to do it that are probably substandard or just don't work with anything else you're doing.

Token Makers
Dread Summons - Again, if you run enough to make a lot of mana regularly, this could do well, but I think there's better ways to spend your hard earned coin, especially when you're running finishers like Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General - Don't get me wrong, she's crazy good. But one zombie once a turn isn't stunning, if that's why she's here. If it's the ultimate you're really after that's fine, but you don't have a lot of synergy to help tick her up either, and she isn't cheap to cast.
Army of the Damned - I'm a little biased, I think this is a trap card. It's a lot of mana to shell out for tapped 2/2 tokens even if there's a lot of them.
Endless Ranks of the Dead - This one is super tempting in zombie tribal. I'm of the opinion personally that it's a trap. It's very slow, and very conditional. If you have one or two zombies, it's not worth casting, and if you have a horde, well, you already had a horde, so what does it add? Plus, you have to wait a turn for it to do anything and pray it doesn't bite removal. If it does, you've spent 2bb for nothing. For what it's worth I also think Rooftop Storm is in the same category.

Tutors
Corpse Harvester - This guy is pretty slow. Swamp tutelage is nice, but be aware that he is slow and expensive.


In terms of what you could add, here's where I've found value in a zombie shell before:
Graveborn Muse - Honestly, in a zombie shell it's a much, much improved Phyrexian Arena, and Arena is still pretty damn good.
Bone Miser - This guy, frankly, is just bonkers. You don't have a lot of discard in the deck, but you've got some burst draw that could make this worthwhile.
Midnight Reaper - Seems an easy add. I've had good results.
Zombie Infestation - So this seems a dangerous card. Hear me out. It drops an untapped 2/2 onto the field at instant speed. Great for chump blocks, or cantripping from Undead Augur to sculpt your hand. And your graveyard, which is great with your commander. It gives you resource from Bone Miser too.
Fact or Fiction - I love this card, personally. In a deck like this it forces your opponents to choose between giving you a nice easy reanimation target or gas in hand, and either way works for you. This is just one card, but I personally think it's worth thinking about more cards like it - you've got great draw, in my experience it's very much worth making sure you have the right cards in your graveyard too, whether you're using your commander's ability to get them back or to cast mass reanimation.
Mindcrank - I heard you wanted to build something nasty.
Bolas's Citadel - I'm actually a little surprised not to see this card in the list already. I've seen it do disgusting things. And with your heavy scry from the command zone, it seems a great option for you.

So I think it's worth talking over your strategy too - that'll help us really refine our suggestions. What is your general plan, and how does The Scarab God fit into it? Do you win by combat? Do you combo with Altar/ Ph Altar for death triggers? Having a clear idea of what you want the deck to do makes it lots easier to decide what gets in and what doesn't. The zombies, you've got a few options, but draw, control, finishers, all that stuff your options are myriad so it's worth thinking a little wider and making informed decisions as to what gets in.
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

Thank you for the input!
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
So I think it's worth talking over your strategy too - that'll help us really refine our suggestions. What is your general plan, and how does The Scarab God fit into it? Do you win by combat? Do you combo with Altar/ Ph Altar for death triggers? Having a clear idea of what you want the deck to do makes it lots easier to decide what gets in and what doesn't. The zombies, you've got a few options, but draw, control, finishers, all that stuff your options are myriad so it's worth thinking a little wider and making informed decisions as to what gets in.
I was definitley attracted by the lure of zombie theme for sure! As far as how the deck wins right now, it basically plays the drain game, can combo out with Gravecrawler any of the death pingers in here and Phyrexian Altar, or a really big Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire.

I definitley checked out your primer for a zombie trial on RowanKeltizar's recommendation. I like where that goes for zombie theme. So maybe I should consider just a Dimir control as you have suggested. I am aware of the Mindcrank combo for sure, and in my initial build it was there, but I dropped it to try to focus down more. I want to make this as nasty as possible and resilient as possible. My meta is definitely very cutthroat.

So maybe lets discuss how to morph this into a control shell and see what we can come up with?

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Reaper_RM wrote:
3 years ago
So maybe lets discuss how to morph this into a control shell and see what we can come up with?
Well, my first thought is to really look into what sort of elements you want to be reanimating with The Scarab God. There are some really tasty options out there, and some that will give you further options to reanimate from your opponents. How do things like work for you? To my mind, it really doesn't matter overly if they're zombies or not (or, at least, you shouldn't feel tied to running just zombies, because anything of yours you reanimate will end up a zombie anyway). The wurm is a finisher on a body, really, and generally we're not really talking about hard casting it. Jin is nasty and if you can keep it in play you can get the pick of your opponents' yards.

The third one is a bit of a pet card of mine. It's totally capable of shredding the bejesus out of a board with things like Windfall, Zombie Infestation or even just a hand >7 at EOT. I can understand if it doesn't work for you, but it does nice things for me in Dralnu, Lich Lord and Varina, Lich Queen.

How tied are you to Grave Betrayal? I personally think it's too expensive to see play, and I'd much rather have something like Animate Dead or Necromancy. Or, if you want the effect on a creature, you could go for something like Phyrexian Delver or Apprentice Necromancer, Or the mother/father of all reanimators, Sheoldred, Whispering One and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. I would think any of these would work really nicely.

I guess otherwise if you want to go control I'd look for a little more removal and permission. There's plenty of great removal in the colours, things like Black Sun's Zenith, Toxic Deluge, Death Cloud, and permission like Cyclonic Rift, Fierce Guardianship, Cryptic Command and such can be really versatile.

I mentioned it before, and I think it's worth mentioning again. If you want a truly disgusting level of power, get you a Bolas's Citadel. The Scarab God gives you a really unique ability to sculpt the top of your deck, so that you can make the right play from the top of your deck all of the time. That's super powerful - it means you can always hit your lands, always hit your mana rocks (and cast them without using mana), and still hit the answer/bomb creature/finisher you need, all without tapping a single land. Then when you're done you can tap it, sac some zombie fodder and shred life totals. It honestly is that good, and it's just bonkers if you can pair it up with Vilis, Broker of Blood.

I guess this is all just food for thought, I'm not sure what your budget looks like, but let me know if any of these ideas tickle your fancy and we can hone in on them.
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

I actually like these suggestions alot. As far as budget goes, I have a pretty decent collection, so if a card isn't say more than $50 I'll pick it up easy. Otherwise, if I own it and it's expensive I'll run it, and if I don't I'll look for an alternative in the mean time.

I think the reanimator/permission idea will suit very well. I do want to make room for the Exsanguinate/Torment of Hailfire bombs.


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So here's kind of a sample of what it may shape up to based on your suggestions and porting in whats already there. Would running any kind of life gain like Whip of Erebos be a bad thought if we are going a route that likes to drain us for effects?
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

I personally don't like Whip of Erebos myself, but what you could do if you're looking to keep your life total up is get Gray Merchant of Asphodel back in here. It's pretty damn excellent for massive life swings.
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

So I ported over the land base to the Sample List and added some combo pieces and value. Roughly have about 16 slots to play with and see what needs to happen.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

I think it's worth keeping a small shell of zombies in the deck to fuel your digs. That being said it's worth being really careful what you do add in that respect. Some zombies suck. There's some that are really, really worth having though. You have Gary, and he's genuinely a win con, but there's some other great stuff too:

Cryptbreaker - this guy works like Earthcraft - you can tap zombies to draw with him the turn they enter, and that includes himself, purely because his second ability doesn't have a tap symbol. He's stunning value for 1 mana.
Graveborn Muse - she can be a little suicidal with an entire horde, but she's just fright with 3-4 zombies in play.
Undead Augur - counts any zombie entering play, so your acarab tokens will count for further draw.
Noxious Ghoul - pretty great removal.
I'd probably look at keeping the aristocrats and Death Baron too - the pump is negligible but death touch is really nice.

Other than that I'd perhaps look at other fat you could add to control the board. Maybe something like Void Winnower? Massacre Girl? It's probably meta dependent. To my mind this idea probably works best with some beaters at the top end to control the board and a core of zombies to help you sculpt your draws and top deck, with your finisher spells to close the deal and some permission and removal to make sure it all comes together. Of course, this is just brewing, so I think it's worth play testing some before committing any money!
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Grave Pact I guess depends on whether you're keeping the infinite sac options you had in your initial list. Necropotence is super strong, and even better with Vilis, Broker of Blood if you end up with that in your final list. Your removal options, I guess it depends what works for you - I've had good results with Reality Shift and Hero's Downfall. Damnation I almost think could be better as Toxic Deluge or Black Sun's Zenith just to catch indestructibles and scale to your game state, but it's still nothing to scoff at.

Duskmantle Guildmage obviously combos with Mindcrank, I guess if there's other stuff it plays well with go for it, but if it's just that, I'd leave it out. You want layers of synergy, not just one connection. Phyrexian Reclamation is pretty great, but I think you could probably leave it out unless you have creatures in the list with triggers on cast. Fleshbag Marauder variants, again, depends if you have your infinite sac combo still in the list. If so, go for it. Although by preference, Plaguecrafter is a superior option. Blood Artist, again, if you're keeping your altars, it'd be an easy add.

I definitely think Disallow is worth it. You're vulnerable to Bojuka Bog effects, so if you have things like this, Tale's End, Nimble Obstructionist, Venser, Shaper Savant or Unsubstantiate in the list. You probably don't need all of them, just one or two of what suits for you best.

In terms of counters Unwind and Rewind probably aren't your best options. In fact I'd personally prefer to splash a little more and play Mystic Confluence or Cryptic Command just for versatile options.

Hostage Taker is pretty solid control, and being able to Zombify it with your commander makes it a really solid option. I could see that being a real pain in the ass.

Victimize is reasonable enough reanimation. You could also consider Reanimate if you have a copy. An early game bomb is super strong, and again, if you do end up with Vilis, Broker of Blood in the list you supercharge your hand as well as have a beater early. Living Death is a card I generally love, and it probably depends on which targets you're choosing with The Scarab God as to whether this finds a place here or not. If you're scouring out your opponents' yards, then absolutely. If you're generally only focusing on your own yard, I'd leave it out.
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

Updated the Sample List.

So we now have a revamped starter list. I guess now to put it together and see how it works out. If anyone see anything that sticks out that I should look at or have other suggestions, please feel free to comment.

Also, will be porting the sample list over to the OP as well.

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

Notion Thief + Windfall/Whispering Madness/Echo of Eons/Dark Deal is probably one of the strongest Dimir combos available. It's the backbone of many solid cEDH strategies, so I would certainly recommend it here since the pieces are all VERY useful to your Commander anyways.

Soldevi Adnate for extra mana generation. Solemn Simulacrum loves to be chumped or sacced for value and is a great Scarab God target.

I've been VERY impressed with Massacre Girl as of late. As long as you have a 1/1 to start the chain, she can very often be a repeatable Board wipe effect since there's usually an X/2 somewhere on the table to make Massacre Girl lethal. Do note that you can sacrifice/kill a creature AFTER her ETB and it will trigger the -1/-1 effect again, so perhaps including Phyrexian Tower to get additional bodies into your 'yard or bump up mana to activate the Scarab God's ability again would be a great idea for your deck that synergizes with Massacre Girl's ability.

I second the recommendation for Cryptbreaker.

Murderous Rider // Swift End is probably better than Hero's Downfall because of its synergy with your Commander. It also has Lifelink to help recoup your life total, which is nice.

Tomebound Lich may not be flashy but it helps to sculpt your hand while getting God targets into your 'yard. Baleful Strix is also a good value card, rattlesnake, and an excellent Eternalized creature.

Hope this helps.

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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Might as well throw in my two cents here. I've had a Scarab God deck based on reanimating simple value targets like Solemn Simulacrum since the beginning.

Tomebound Lich is quietly one of the best cards in the deck. It comes down early, provides continuous card draw, and is even better as a reanimation target. Baleful Strix is equally effective and a must-have.

Massacre Girl has also been exactly what this deck wants in a board wipe. It's a great Scarab target, it gets around indestructibles and hexproofs and protections, and it doesn't have to exile anything to do it, so all those juicy targets go right into the yard where they belong.

I'm not so sure about Cryptbreaker here. Two mana and tap and discard is a bit of work to assemble, and the 2/2 token isn't much of a payoff, unless you're all-in on the Zombie tribal stuff (more on that later). Furthermore, this deck rarely keeps three untapped Zombies alive for very long, and tapping them all to draw a card is not very efficient. Full disclosure: you could probably make an entire Dimir commander deck out of nothing but draw spells, so you REALLY need to make sure that you pick ones that fit exactly what you want to do. Speaking of which...

I would look to cut a couple of the usual enchantment-based draw spells in favor of their creature-based counterparts in this case. Normally, I'd be all for casting Necropotence and Phyrexian Arena, but here you could just as easily run something like Champion of Wits, Mulldrifter, or the new Liliana's Standard Bearer. The looting part actually works in your favor here, and you can sacrifice the bodies for extra profit and reanimate them later. Even something as trivial-looking as a Skyscanner can draw you something early and then come back as a 4/4 flyer with another extra card later.

I would also look to cut some of the other reanimation spells, especially the non-creature ones. Your commander is very good at reanimating, so you don't need too many redundant effects.

In general, anything that isn't a creature should probably get some extra scrutiny, as you could just as easily run a creature with a similar effect that you can reuse a second time.

One last point: I would probably choose all-or-nothing on the Zombie tribal cards. If you try to split the difference, you'll end up with ineffective combinations like Diregraf Captain/Hostage Taker/Bolas's Citadel.
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

Got a couple games in and I'll say entombing Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur turn 1 and animating him the shortly after just wrecks peoples hands and game plans. I ran into the situation of where I definitely wanted a Reliquary Tower or Thought Vessel. I think these would be reasonable adds?

Also, I'm watching the Gravecrawler, Phyrexian Altar, pingers combo. Everytime I start to set it up seems to telegraph exactly what I'm about to do and it gets put down. I may be able to find better options of things to do. Granted it is a dirty combo, but even with all the pieces available, it's still hard to pull off.

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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

So after playing over dozen more games I'm seeing some standout stuff.

Hostage Taker is ridiculous. The things I've been doing with it has been causing a lot of salt.

Altar of the Brood and Mindcrank just provide me soo much value. If these come down right at the start of the game, I can cripple my opponents. Even mid/late game they provide great value feeding me stuff to reanimate or just to take stuff away from my opponents.

Magus of the Coffers, Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire do exactly what I want them to do. Magus kinda telegraphs what's coming, but it's generally hard to stop. At some point I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and buy a copy of Cabal Coffers.

Archfiend of Ifnir. I like this card and what it does. I've seen a good couple windfalls with him on the field and it does wonders. I'm on the fence though, cause I'm not playing much discard. It'll be on my watch list along with Zombie Infestation and Windfall.

Gravecrawler combo. Why this a great combo, I can never get it together. My meta shuts it down before it fires time and again. Considering removing it. If I do, I will probably look at some more control and reanimation options.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Good to hear you're getting some good results!
Reaper_RM wrote:
3 years ago
Gravecrawler combo. Why this a great combo, I can never get it together. My meta shuts it down before it fires time and again. Considering removing it. If I do, I will probably look at some more control and reanimation options.
Yeah, this combo is relatively similar to the old Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood combo. You know it's coming, so it's easy to hold up removal for, even if Gravecrawler is a little tough to get rid of. There's enough pieces that it's hard to assemble and easy to pull apart.
Reaper_RM wrote:
3 years ago
Archfiend of Ifnir. I like this card and what it does. I've seen a good couple windfalls with him on the field and it does wonders. I'm on the fence though, cause I'm not playing much discard. It'll be on my watch list along with Zombie Infestation and Windfall.
Totally understandable, it fits in a relatively specific place, and if you're not playing into that it might be dead weight.
Reaper_RM wrote:
3 years ago
Altar of the Brood and Mindcrank just provide me soo much value. If these come down right at the start of the game, I can cripple my opponents. Even mid/late game they provide great value feeding me stuff to reanimate or just to take stuff away from my opponents.
I wonder if Syr Konrad, the Grim would be worth including? He's pretty nuts for life loss, and while relatively uncontrollable, he pseudo-combos with Mindcrank, so long as you keep hitting creatures on someone's pile - and you don't need to jump through any hoops to do so, you just need a little life loss or mill to start him off. Plus he's a mana sink when you have extra resource. On top of that it makes you a little less reliant on huge mana for your Exsanguinate/Torment of Hailfire if he can get you within pinging distance.

In a similar vein, perhaps Undead Alchemist would be worth adding. In a way it expands the value you get from both, but especially Altar of the Brood. It also doesn't need much to set it off. It's exile clause is a little bit nonbo with The Scarab God though, so it may be something to be hesitant about.
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

I'll speak up for Syr Konrad, the Grim: he's exactly what the deck wants to do. Whether you're going for the mill plan or the zombie plan or just reanimating some random value guys, he fits perfectly.

Not surprised about Hostage Taker, either. It's exactly the kind of value body you want to use and reuse.
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

Update:

Starting to phase out the Gravecrawler combo. Brought in 3 cards that should do really well.

Out:
Blood Artist
Bontu's Monument
Zombie Infestation

In:
Syr Konrad, the Grim
Massacre Girl
Baleful Strix

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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Reaper_RM wrote:
3 years ago
Update:

Starting to phase out the Gravecrawler combo. Brought in 3 cards that should do really well.

Out:
Blood Artist
Bontu's Monument
Zombie Infestation

In:
Syr Konrad, the Grim
Massacre Girl
Baleful Strix
Excellent! All three of those guys are incredible values.

Check out my list below for some more ideas
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Post by Dunharrow » 3 years ago

I really like Eldrazi Processors in my Scarab God deck. Being able to reanimate opponents' critters multiple times is awesome. I am only running Ulamog's Nullifier and Oracle of Dust.
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
I really like Eldrazi Processors in my Scarab God deck. Being able to reanimate opponents' critters multiple times is awesome. I am only running Ulamog's Nullifier and Oracle of Dust.
How have those been working for you? I used to run the Oracle and the Nullifier just barely missed the cut.
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Post by Dunharrow » 3 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
3 years ago
Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
I really like Eldrazi Processors in my Scarab God deck. Being able to reanimate opponents' critters multiple times is awesome. I am only running Ulamog's Nullifier and Oracle of Dust.
How have those been working for you? I used to run the Oracle and the Nullifier just barely missed the cut.
I played the deck 5 times so far.
I drew Nullifer in two of those games. Once it was useful, The other time I just played it with no value.
I drew Oracle twice. Once it was amazing. The other time I was way ahead and just had other things to do than play it.

My list is not as tuned as this, so I could see not playing them. But also, this is a deck with lots of things to spend your mana on so I feel like cards will sit in your hand more than other decks.
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Post by Reaper_RM » 3 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
I really like Eldrazi Processors in my Scarab God deck. Being able to reanimate opponents' critters multiple times is awesome. I am only running Ulamog's Nullifier and Oracle of Dust.
I will definitely take a look at these as I continue to remove the Gravecrawler combo pieces out along with the Archfiend of Ifnir stuff.

I wouldn't say my list is tuned per say yet. It's evolving a pretty good clip though. But you are correct, the deck does have a lot of things to spend it's mana on. Always having something to do or having answers for things has been great. Last game I played I had a turn 2 Necropotence out followed by a turn 3 Altar of the Brood and just started decimating my opponents. Wound up reanimating creatures like crazy while they got mana screwed thanks to Altar. Dropped Bolas's Citadel and the table scooped. But it's not consistent on what it does yet due to the crawler combo still being present. That eats up a few slots that could be something way better.

Still looking for a Tale's End. Figure 2 cards to stop the Bojuka Bog effects would be nice to have. Also looking at some decent spot removal and counters. My best counter unfortunately is in my Locust God deck. So finding efficient counters beyond what I have is tough.

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