Subira Gobbos

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Hey, look, I'm creating a reference for a deck that isn't one of my old decks . So much so, that the commander is actually brand new and has very little discussion happening right now! I'm still talking about RDW though.

So, it's aggressive. It plays the avalanche very well. A few notes;
  • You don't actually activate Subira that often.
  • You'll use the first ability more than anything else.
  • People will be [rightly so] scared of her. Combining this much speed with this many extra cards is a recipe for disaster.
  • Pashalik Mons is by far the best card in the deck.
  • Prophetic Flamespeaker is a bonafide draw4 with just the commander which is great while also driving mana consumption way up.
  • You really don't care about Sensei's Divining Top because you can see more with your commander.
  • People will react very unassuming until the first time your activate her last ability. Then you will have their attention.
The Cons
  • You play a tribe with a lot of lords, but you can't play the lords without turning off your commander.
  • Skullclamp is awkward in that you want to play the card and you have a creature base to support it, but it often turns your commander's abilities off awkwardly. I'm not sure if it really belongs in the deck, but I struggle to imagine the deck not playing it.
  • You'll still struggle to swing past a x/5. Usually even an x/4.
I am not sure I like this more than Kari Zev, but it's certainly more explosive than the former. I think it has a lot of room for discussion for sure, but I'm not convinced this list is anywhere close to final. Of note, it's missing half it's fetch suite (Tarn, Passage, Vista) and Wasteland. I also think I want more instant burn, and ways to force attacks without spending a million mana on rogue's passage. Disrupt Decorum would be good for one attack, though it takes a full turn cycle to get your attack in. Possibly Fumiko the Lowblood despite it's complete lack of synergy otherwise with the deck.

I should probably be playing Anvil of Bogardan, and about two other haste enablers, I think. Footfall Crater comes to mind since it's not dead when you don't need it.

Subira appears like she wants protection, but having haste means it's not the end of the world if she's targeted. If you added some footwear to the deck, I don't think it would hurt you, but I'm not convinced it really helps as much as one might think it does. I think I want something like In the Web of War or Fervent Charge, but for less mana than these cost. Aggravated Assault, I'd guess. Five is a lot though.

I'm not convinced 32 lands is consistent enough, despite not having a top end to speak of. Maybe it is, and I'm just not accustomed to these low land count decks. Maybe it goes to thirty and you stuff every R Savannah Lions variant into the deck that you can fit, and top it off with all the cavalcade of calamity effects and a Fiery Emancipation at the top end for the final slumber.

Idk guys. I'm just excited to start some discussion on this!
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Last edited by 3drinks 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

I play this Goblin package in my Radha, Heart of Keld deck based around Conspicuous Snoop. Ill just copy and paste the details...
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There is a combo with using Goblin Recruiter to specifically get Conspicuous Snoop, Skirk Prospector, Torch Courier, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Siege-Gang Commander in that order.
You can cast Goblins off the top of your library and also Conspicuous Snoop has the activated abilities of your Goblins.
Once you cast Conspicuous Snoop you can sacrifice the Goblin Recruiter to get r to cast the Skirk Prospector.
Then cast Torch Courier and to give Conspicuous Snoop haste. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is now the top card of your library. You can make infinite Conspicuous Snoop as it has Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker ability and you can make a copies of itself. They will all be tapped except one, but with Skirk Prospector you can sacrifice to get as much r as you want, and simply cast Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker when you are ready. Now Siege-Gang Commander is the top card and you can sacrifice your Conspicuous Snoop copies to kill opponents with damage.
Surly Badgersaur is a must with the discard portion.

Grenzo, Havoc Raiser is great with unblockable creatures, the goad element is honestly priceless at just making your opponents kill each other.

Glint-Horn Buccaneer and Brallin, Skyshark Rider go nice with the discard.

Underworld Breach is so good at recovering cards from graveyard and with the discard theme does more for you.

Bomat Courier nice little creature to get advantages with.

I like Walking Atlas for the extra land drops as you get to filter through so many cards you'll always have options once you get the ball rolling.

As far as cuts, I think some of the mana sink cards will be totally lost given you want to activate Subira and play cards from hand.
Tilonalli's Summoner and Goblin Warrens will probably never be activated.

Crucible of Worlds is always a terrible card in a deck that filters through so many cards.
Also if you are playing Gauntlet of Might, Ruination, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle then your non-basics are a huge liability in the deck.
Don't bother with anything cute like Sunscorched Desert, Ramunap Ruins, Desert of the Fervent, Barbarian Ring, Sandstone Needle. I know you are trying to play Deserts for more Scavenger Grounds activation's but they are getting in the way of your other cards.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

+1 to Bomat Courier, Brallin, Skyshark Rider, and Surly Badgersaur. The same came to mind when I saw another Subira list on the boards the other day.

I LOVE that you run Prophetic Flamespeaker! That is a card that I've wanted to have a home for a long time now, and Subira seems like a perfect fit.

I feel as if the deck would be intensely mana hungry with all the activations needed. I'd consider running Battle Hymn and Mana Geyser.

Has Cavalcade of Calamity/Raid Bombardment + Torbran, Thane of Red Fell and the other damage multipliers taken enough pressure off the need to make all your gobbos unblockable? Toss in a Goblin Sharpshooter with a damage multiplier and you won't even mind if everything gets blocked and killed, similar to Pashalik Mons. That approach also brings Vicious Shadows to mind, which also includes your opponents' creatures and might make the steep cost worthwhile.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 3 years ago

I think Skullclamp is a solid inclusion. Just pay attention to when you are equipping it. I would equip post combat on tokens and other expendable fodder that will die on the equip. For me skullclamp is never something that I use during combat, but I suppose if you have something with 1 toughness it wouldn't hurt. You should have plenty of clamp fodder.
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
+1 to Bomat Courier, Brallin, Skyshark Rider, and Surly Badgersaur. The same came to mind when I saw another Subira list on the boards the other day.

I LOVE that you run Prophetic Flamespeaker! That is a card that I've wanted to have a home for a long time now, and Subira seems like a perfect fit.

I feel as if the deck would be intensely mana hungry with all the activations needed. I'd consider running Battle Hymn and Mana Geyser.

Has Cavalcade of Calamity/Raid Bombardment + Torbran, Thane of Red Fell and the other damage multipliers taken enough pressure off the need to make all your gobbos unblockable? Toss in a Goblin Sharpshooter with a damage multiplier and you won't even mind if everything gets blocked and killed, similar to Pashalik Mons. That approach also brings Vicious Shadows to mind, which also includes your opponents' creatures and might make the steep cost worthwhile.
I've been sitting on flamespeaker for years and waiting for the ultimate home to maximize this guy would be. Turns out a draw4 in mono-r is that place.

I'm still not activating Subira often, I find I'm either clogged with end game four drops, or my 32 land count spec is a bit too overzealous (a mixture, surely). I think +2 lands would do the trick, 34 was what I ran Thalia WW on. I really don't wanna drop 10tix on Eidolon of the Great Revel, but I think it's exactly where I need to be. Sigh. I wanna add lavamancer too.

Pashalik Mons is so great but I'm struggling to activate it. Or if I do, it's a full round action. I need more of this but for less mana. And more goblin instigators. I wonder if simian spirit guide is worth. Can't ever see myself casting it, but it is a lotus petal. Maybe raging goblin too. It's pretty trash but the type is on point. Mogg fanatic seems strong as well.

I think I'm probably better off with all those Savannah lions and goblin guides. If anything is staying at the top of the curve it's Torbran and Manabarbs. The damage output is insane. Gauntlet of Might is a cut I guess. Purphorous is probably a cut too, but I like to think he's stronk enough to be worth getting stuck in hand at times. Brallin and the Badger are probably strong, but at four...idk, I'm trying to slim down and getting overwhelmed at these high drops. It's a cycle. .....Only I would consider four cmc high in commander 😂

Is it just me, or does it feel like I'm shifting towards some sort of Edric style deck? I need speed, but I really don't wanna buy moxen RIP.

Fiery emancipation needs to go. Dictate probably should too, but I think it's okay in a vacuum cause it has flash.

Sorry if my thoughts are all scattered. It's not even 24hrs old and I'm just typing as things come up.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Relentless Assault and Savage Beating seem like great top end cards here since you'd only have to activate Subira and pitch your hand once then get the combat damage → draw effect twice, or four times if you entwined Beating.

Prophetic Flamespeaker would be a draw 8 (sort of) if it connected in a multiple combat phase turn :laugh:
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
Relentless Assault and Savage Beating seem like great top end cards here since you'd only have to activate Subira and pitch your hand once then get the combat damage → draw effect twice, or four times if you entwined Beating.

Prophetic Flamespeaker would be a draw 8 (sort of) if it connected in a multiple combat phase turn :laugh:
Still six mana or more in the critical turn though, which is a ton in this deck.

Also, don't be like me and play Subira post combat like she doesn't have haste or something. Or attack with her the turn you wanna refill. Gosh I did that so many times yesterday, and I felt dumb AF almost immediately after committing to the attack.

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Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

I'm somewhat curious whether Break Through the Line would be worth running as a backup Subira. There are some arguments that the evasion is less useful when Subira isn't available (because you can't turn it into card draw), but if you're not activating her that often then that may not be the case. Haste granting is also somewhat relevant.

Deck looks very sweet otherwise though. I almost wonder if you're fast enough for the red extra turn spells (Last Chance, etc) to be worth running here.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

So I'm editing a v2.0 into the first post. I think it's more refined, but we can discuss if it needs a better late game.
Mookie wrote:
3 years ago
I'm somewhat curious whether Break Through the Line would be worth running as a backup Subira. There are some arguments that the evasion is less useful when Subira isn't available (because you can't turn it into card draw), but if you're not activating her that often then that may not be the case. Haste granting is also somewhat relevant.

Deck looks very sweet otherwise though. I almost wonder if you're fast enough for the red extra turn spells (Last Chance, etc) to be worth running here.
I was thinking about the final fortunes of the world before I went to sleep, and I don't think we can do that out of 1v1.

I don't think BTtL is playable, it's a mana sink in a mana lite deck. If I want haste, I'm almost surely better with mass hysteria, or another goblin warchief. If I want evasion, I think I'm better off just playing a falter effect.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

So that happened. This is likely it's peak, which, admittedly looks pretty stronk, but it's valleys are abysmal.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 3 years ago

I second the power level of Underworld Breach and I think this is a great deck to put it in since you should be filling up your graveyard pretty quick. This is basically a red Yawgmoth's Will and has the ability to recur any type of card, which is something unheard of in mono red.

I think multiple attack phases is a good direction to take Subira since you only have to discard once and you only have to make your creatures unblockable once. Even with a small army you should get a lot of draw. Sword of Feast and Famine might be a good inclusion here as well since you can play out your hand in your second main phase.

Breath of Fury might be something to try since the biggest issue with it is the possibility of the enchanted creature being blocked. Subira can get around that caveat. You have the token generation to support it. If you can set it up right it will win games, or just outright go infinite with a token producer.

Relentless Assault is pretty efficient as well.

Lightning Runner - has the added benefit of having double strike, slow to set up though

Savage Beating has the added benefit of granting double strike, which brings me to my next point...

As I'm sure you are aware, another way to abuse the ability is with double strike. Sadly, there just aren't that many good red creatures with double strike that fit the bill - either too high of cmc, or just not powerful enough in their own right. So it might be a good idea to look at some static effects:

Berserkers' Onslaught, Blood Mist are the most likely to be any good.
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Yeah, the tokens are great, but the low to the ground goblin strat might be ill placed since not having a late game is an issue when people have 40 life.

I have a bunch of swords in my account, but I don't know they fit when they turn off my draw. Or maybe they do and I bring stuff more midrange...which would mean Subira slots into the Kari Zev deck because lem'me tell you, I stuck a t1 Lackey this morning, went four attacks without a target, and this felt like the worst thing ever. I had to look like a total goob. 😐

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

I just watched the new Game Knights from The Command Zone with my son, and JLK was repping Subira. Just a couple comments in spoilers in case you watch GK.
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No tribal theme, but he did run Prophetic Flamespeaker which made me smile. The greatest successes he had in the game had nothing to do with Subira unfortunately, and come to think of it I can't even remember him activating her, which is a total bummer. Overall a bit of a dud game with this commander. I honestly think he didn't go low enough to the ground, which your deck appears to be capable of doing much better.
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Oh, yes I remember he was gonna use her. I'll be watching that in about an hour, so happy it's up.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Wow, all this game has done is visualize the ramp epidemic that's taking over games across the meta. It was nothing about Subira at all.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Yeah, Craig's first three turns were stupid.
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I wish I could record my games here, but my 20mbps dsl leaves that as a hard no. Can't even record in 30fps. Shame, cause there's some great hits (and valuable misses) that we could learn from and analyze.

I think we're missing out on Harvest Pyre and naturally, Grim Lavamancer. We have virtually unending filler to set these up. On the creature base I'm looking into more one drops like Goblin Soothsayer and Goblin Chirurgeon. I'm thinking the only non-goblins should be purphoros and flamespeaker (and lavamancer of course).

I wanna play the new Snoop, but I'm not paying 10tix for that right now. I'm really not convinced I want or can even play five drops consistently. I want to revisit lords but with the caveat that I have to control when/how many I play so I don't turn off the commander. I bet Aether Vial is great here.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Updated a v3.0 to the OP. This brings the curve to a 1.56 (embercleave is not a six drop). I'm much more all-in on the goblins tribe, with a few non-gobbos slipping through the cracks.

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Post by cheonice » 3 years ago

This looks really fun!
I'm brewing mono-red commanders all year long (Zurzoth, Chaos Rider, Neheb, the Eternal and others), but none really made it to a polished decklist. Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner on the other hand looks more open ended.

It looks like there are two possible builds: Goblins (your approach) and small creatures. Have you ever tried the latter approach? I'm shying away from going all-in on goblins...

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