Kess Update
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Kess: Discard Control
Hello there! Working on a Kess deck with a discard theme. The majority of this deck's approach will be to create an advantage over my opponent's by allowing me to play instants and sorceries out of my graveyard with Kess, as well as using their graveyards as a resource with cards such as Reanimate and Dire Fleet Daredevil. Kess will also let me recycle wheel effects to get more triggers for cards such as Waste Not.
Last edited by Travnar 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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I ran a very similar list for a while and had a lot of fun with it (though no one else did).
Some suggestions:
Bottomless Pit is a better Necrogen Mists (I ran both)
You're probably going to need more board wipes: everyone hates discard, so even if you aren't the biggest threat at the table, everyone will likely be gunning for you.
Because of my reliance on boardwipes, I tried to minimize the number of creatures I was running.
I think the Myojin is way too expensive for what you're getting.
Mystical Tutor is worth running.
Sangromancer helped weather the hate immensely.
With how reliant the deck is on enchantments, I was considering including a way to recur them before I took the deck apart to build some other projects. I was considering Skull of Orm.
I found Primal Amulet to be very useful on both halves. Sometimes, two wheels just closes out the game.
Propaganda could be worth running to slow down the hate as well.
Shrieking Affliction did some work. Typically I wasn't finding that I would empty everyone's hands, but could usually get one player down to get hit each round, which allowed me to focus more on the other opponents.
Capsize is fantastic with Kess. You can cast it normally, then cast with Buyback from the yard to return it to your hand. Plus, it's a real answer to cards you can't otherwise deal with (like enchantments): bounce, wheel.
Some suggestions:
Bottomless Pit is a better Necrogen Mists (I ran both)
You're probably going to need more board wipes: everyone hates discard, so even if you aren't the biggest threat at the table, everyone will likely be gunning for you.
Because of my reliance on boardwipes, I tried to minimize the number of creatures I was running.
I think the Myojin is way too expensive for what you're getting.
Mystical Tutor is worth running.
Sangromancer helped weather the hate immensely.
With how reliant the deck is on enchantments, I was considering including a way to recur them before I took the deck apart to build some other projects. I was considering Skull of Orm.
I found Primal Amulet to be very useful on both halves. Sometimes, two wheels just closes out the game.
Propaganda could be worth running to slow down the hate as well.
Shrieking Affliction did some work. Typically I wasn't finding that I would empty everyone's hands, but could usually get one player down to get hit each round, which allowed me to focus more on the other opponents.
Capsize is fantastic with Kess. You can cast it normally, then cast with Buyback from the yard to return it to your hand. Plus, it's a real answer to cards you can't otherwise deal with (like enchantments): bounce, wheel.
Sefris, Varina, Korvold Lands Ho!, Queen Marchesa, Aikido/Goad, Kadena, Tuvasa, Tymna & Tevesh Cleric Tribal, Ghired,
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Be careful with Notion Thief. I had one game where an opponent flashed out Alhammaret's Archive in response to a wheel while I had the Thief out, and I ended up drawing almost 40 cards and decked myself.
Sefris, Varina, Korvold Lands Ho!, Queen Marchesa, Aikido/Goad, Kadena, Tuvasa, Tymna & Tevesh Cleric Tribal, Ghired,
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Awesome, thanks for the insight. I'm curious to see how my playgroup reacts to discard, as it hasn't shown up yet. I can definitely see myself fitting in more board wipes, such as Damnation. I think I want to fit Bottomless Pit in the deck somewhere.yeti1069 wrote: ↑4 years agoI ran a very similar list for a while and had a lot of fun with it (though no one else did).
Some suggestions:
Bottomless Pit is a better Necrogen Mists (I ran both)
You're probably going to need more board wipes: everyone hates discard, so even if you aren't the biggest threat at the table, everyone will likely be gunning for you.
Because of my reliance on boardwipes, I tried to minimize the number of creatures I was running.
I think the Myojin is way too expensive for what you're getting.
Mystical Tutor is worth running.
Sangromancer helped weather the hate immensely.
With how reliant the deck is on enchantments, I was considering including a way to recur them before I took the deck apart to build some other projects. I was considering Skull of Orm.
I found Primal Amulet to be very useful on both halves. Sometimes, two wheels just closes out the game.
Propaganda could be worth running to slow down the hate as well.
Shrieking Affliction did some work. Typically I wasn't finding that I would empty everyone's hands, but could usually get one player down to get hit each round, which allowed me to focus more on the other opponents.
Capsize is fantastic with Kess. You can cast it normally, then cast with Buyback from the yard to return it to your hand. Plus, it's a real answer to cards you can't otherwise deal with (like enchantments): bounce, wheel.
I would run Decree of Pain over Starstorm. You can cycle it early to wipe out small stuff and draw a card, then play it from grave later to kill the bigger stuff and draw a bunch of cards, if you need, or get massive advantage casting it twice in a game.
Oh, I also felt that one or two instant speed graveyard removal cards were important. I liked Rakdos Charm since it's versatile and can win you the game vs some decks. Sometimes, forcing discard is helping your opponents more than it's hurting them.
Also, Telepathy was fun! Although I ran a selection of targeted discard spells/effects to strip out answers before they could disrupt my plans. No one I played with enjoyed having their hands revealed, but it makes for interesting politics.
Oh, I also felt that one or two instant speed graveyard removal cards were important. I liked Rakdos Charm since it's versatile and can win you the game vs some decks. Sometimes, forcing discard is helping your opponents more than it's hurting them.
Also, Telepathy was fun! Although I ran a selection of targeted discard spells/effects to strip out answers before they could disrupt my plans. No one I played with enjoyed having their hands revealed, but it makes for interesting politics.
Sefris, Varina, Korvold Lands Ho!, Queen Marchesa, Aikido/Goad, Kadena, Tuvasa, Tymna & Tevesh Cleric Tribal, Ghired,
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Updating this thread with a new list I'm working on and some things I'm considering:
I want to find some room for possibly these following cards as well:
Ghouls' Night Out - New card that lets me psuedo-Reanimate from every graveyard seems good.
Dack Fayden - He was in the deck and probably needs to stay in the deck, but was removed for Liliana, Waker of the Dead.
Lier, Disciple of the Drowned - Kess redundancy seems kind of good, plus this is a psuedo-Yawgmoth's Will. Thoughts?
Snapcaster Mage - Same as above, kind of. Not sure if this is better than something like Mission Briefing.
Awaken the Erstwhile - Nuking hands seems good and can possibly be a wincon if I go off with a huge Notion Thief.
Deadly Rollick and Fierce Guardianship - Free removal and counter seems good since Kess will be out regularly.
Kess Update
Approximate Total Cost:
I want to find some room for possibly these following cards as well:
Ghouls' Night Out - New card that lets me psuedo-Reanimate from every graveyard seems good.
Dack Fayden - He was in the deck and probably needs to stay in the deck, but was removed for Liliana, Waker of the Dead.
Lier, Disciple of the Drowned - Kess redundancy seems kind of good, plus this is a psuedo-Yawgmoth's Will. Thoughts?
Snapcaster Mage - Same as above, kind of. Not sure if this is better than something like Mission Briefing.
Awaken the Erstwhile - Nuking hands seems good and can possibly be a wincon if I go off with a huge Notion Thief.
Deadly Rollick and Fierce Guardianship - Free removal and counter seems good since Kess will be out regularly.
I'm sort of wondering if the Liliana's Caress package (Megrim, Raiders' Wake, etc) is worth it and if that strategy should be removed entirely. This would open more room for more instant and sorceries as well.
What are you winning with without those?
Sefris, Varina, Korvold Lands Ho!, Queen Marchesa, Aikido/Goad, Kadena, Tuvasa, Tymna & Tevesh Cleric Tribal, Ghired,
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Just realized I read Necrogoyf wrong (thought it was all cards in all graveyards, more like Consuming Aberration). It could probably be on the chopping block, but it is more redundancy for something like Cunning Lethemancer.
When i was running the Kess deck, I preferred relying on creatures as little as possible to make running several boardwipes more one-sided.
I've also found that relying on your opponents' decks for your gameplan is a huge gamble. I changed my discard Kess to a reanimator Kess, and while it occasionally nabs some decent stuff from everyone else, 80+% of the time, I'm grabbing my own stuff, or getting disappointing pulls with Sepulchural Primordial. I also have another, super-janky deck built around Eternal Dominion and have had multiple games where even resolving the epic spell with 3 or more copies couldn't turn up anything to help me close out the game. Sometimes you have players with other spellslinger decks, or decks that rely very heavily on internal synergy, or value pieces designed to work with the commander. I think having a few cards in the deck in this vein can be fun, but I wouldn't want to rely on it to close out the game.
I've also found that relying on your opponents' decks for your gameplan is a huge gamble. I changed my discard Kess to a reanimator Kess, and while it occasionally nabs some decent stuff from everyone else, 80+% of the time, I'm grabbing my own stuff, or getting disappointing pulls with Sepulchural Primordial. I also have another, super-janky deck built around Eternal Dominion and have had multiple games where even resolving the epic spell with 3 or more copies couldn't turn up anything to help me close out the game. Sometimes you have players with other spellslinger decks, or decks that rely very heavily on internal synergy, or value pieces designed to work with the commander. I think having a few cards in the deck in this vein can be fun, but I wouldn't want to rely on it to close out the game.
Sefris, Varina, Korvold Lands Ho!, Queen Marchesa, Aikido/Goad, Kadena, Tuvasa, Tymna & Tevesh Cleric Tribal, Ghired,
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
