A Feast For Hobbits; Frodo & Sam's Meals on the Go

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

I've been upgrading the Feast and Fellowship precon. Enjoying it so far, but feel like it's a little unfocused. There are some cards I'm aiming to include, but just don't have yet (like Smeagol).

Also, I've been trying a mana dorks-based ramp package to get Frodo out on 2, then drop Sam and eat a food on 3 for the first trigger on Frodo. It works, but I'm not sure it's doing enough to warrant such a commitment to otherwise somewhat underwhelming and fragile resources. At the same time, spending turn 2 or 4 playing a ramp spell feels bad.


Thoughts? Suggestions? Has anyone else been trying this?
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 10 months ago

Are you going to be surprised when I recommend enchantment ramp? ;) It feels that Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth are exactly what you're after here. Mox Amber is perfect for you too, Heck, I'd even consider Jeweled Amulet!

I actually played the out-of-the-box precon when a playgroup friend surprise brought the precons along to sling at a get-together, and I think I liked it the most of the decks. It just had a bunch of different moving pieces and I was gaining life and getting rewarded for it and it felt neat. Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles made me smile as a factory of "whenever attacks something else flies too" chaff, which I tend to like to play in limited. I foresee this being a fun deck to fiddle around with.
 
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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
10 months ago
Are you going to be surprised when I recommend enchantment ramp? ;) It feels that Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth are exactly what you're after here. Mox Amber is perfect for you too, Heck, I'd even consider Jeweled Amulet!

I actually played the out-of-the-box precon when a playgroup friend surprise brought the precons along to sling at a get-together, and I think I liked it the most of the decks. It just had a bunch of different moving pieces and I was gaining life and getting rewarded for it and it felt neat. Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles made me smile as a factory of "whenever attacks something else flies too" chaff, which I tend to like to play in limited. I foresee this being a fun deck to fiddle around with.
Thanks for dropping in.

I haven't updated the mana base enough to feel comfortable with Utopia Sprawl as early ramp, but Wild Growth is a good call. Mox Amber is in the same category: my only copy is elsewhere and I'm not at the stage of proxying here yet.

I have not yet drawn Gwaihir in 6 or 7 games.

The deck was fun out of the box, and I've enjoyed leveling it s bit.

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Post by kraus911 » 10 months ago

I'm curious what the final incarnation of this will be for you.

I love abzan token +1/+1 value aristocrat combo decks, and have built a few. I always struggle with trying to narrow it down from token +1/+1 value aristocrat combo... All of those strategies work well with the pieces of a deck like this, but I'd often find myself with a piece or two of each strategy but not all of what I needed for one. I've always had the most luck with the bleed strategy of aristocrats, but that's a super on-board threat. I guess the question is, how do you want to win and narrowing on making the deck do that in the most fun way.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

kraus911 wrote:
10 months ago
I'm curious what the final incarnation of this will be for you.

I love abzan token +1/+1 value aristocrat combo decks, and have built a few. I always struggle with trying to narrow it down from token +1/+1 value aristocrat combo... All of those strategies work well with the pieces of a deck like this, but I'd often find myself with a piece or two of each strategy but not all of what I needed for one. I've always had the most luck with the bleed strategy of aristocrats, but that's a super on-board threat. I guess the question is, how do you want to win and narrowing on making the deck do that in the most fun way.
Yeah, I haven't built Abzan before. I had a Meren deck (my oldest EDH deck) that I took apart to build Sméagol, Helpful Guide, which ran along some of those lines.

I don't really want to lean into aristocrats too much here, since I do that plenty elsewhere, although a payoff for lifegain is welcome, and payoffs for all the token production may be as well. That said, I found myself considering cutting Mirkwood Bats. On the one hand, they can produce quite a bit of ping damage, but I don't have many ways to go big on that effect, so it's kind of limited to 2-4 damage a turn. That's not nothing, but it also isn't enough to close out the game. It is enough to earn the ire of everyone at the table, however. I'm not amassing such a large force of tokens that a board wipe will threaten death for the table, normally, which I find is one of the benefits of this type of effect--you become too big to fail.

Thus far, I'm finding the deck comes out quickly with all the mana dorks I'm running, then kind of spins its wheels a bit, while looking like the biggest threat at the table, and gets targeted.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Played a game against not one, but TWO players running this deck (I was playing Smeagol).

Both players skipped playing Frodo on 2 for other pieces of development...then played Sam before Frodo, and did the same again later in the game when rebuilding after wipes/removal. For anyone who is reading this and playing the deck, or thinking about playing it, I'm fairly certain getting Frodo out and online is priority #1. While there are synergies for food, I don't think there's anything more powerful than drawing 2 and discarding 1 each turn that would warrant dropping Sam first, or waiting on playing out Frodo.

So far, the only game I've not gone Frodo on 2, Sam on 3, was when I had an opener with a bunch of mana dorks and Frodo Baggins, which meant I could drop that on 2, then both Frodo and Sam on 3, putting me at 4 temptations when Frodo swung on turn 4. That meant I actually got the loot trigger a turn sooner than the normal deployment.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

This was another game with a quick start thanks to dorks: BoP on 1, Frodo Baggins and Llanowar Elves on 2. Frodo and Sam on 3. There was basically 0 interaction all game, and one player dropped early. Of course, this was a game that showcased what Mirkwood Bats could do in this deck. The Farmer Cotton play alone would have domed everyone for 28, and then I could have sacrificed probably 8 food to get that to 36.

Jaheira, Friend of the Forest is predictably silly. I had accumulated 6 food, with Peregrin Took and Pippin, Warden of Isengard out. Spent a turn building up food, then cast Farmer Cotton using the food I'd already made to pay X=13. In combat I drew Motivated Pony, so next turn I dropped it, activated Pippin, and swung with the Pony to give the team of 27 creatures +6/+6. Among them I had an 11/11 Feasting Hobbit and a 9/14 Treebeard, Gracious Host who should of been bigger, actually. In any case, I had a ton of mana to sac my 15 or so food tokens, which could have put another 45 counters on Treebeard or Feasting Hobbit in increments of 3, or been used to draw a ton of cards.

On 4 attacks with Frodo, I pitched 3 lands and another mana dork.

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Post by darrenhabib » 10 months ago

Have you thought about Second Breakfast?

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
10 months ago
Have you thought about Second Breakfast?
Seems like kind of small potatoes, even if it is thematic.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

What do you all feel are the weakest cards in the deck as it stands?
What do you feel is missing that should be here?

In particular, I'm looking to make cuts to slot in: The troll may not make it in for being too cute, but the others I'd like to get in here. Smeagol, especially, will be a very solid payoff for being tempted.
The Ring Goes South looks like a decent payoff for having so many legendary creatures (wouldn't mind some other payoffs for those as well, but haven't found anything).
Trail looks like a good payoff for food.

Battle is thematic and should be fairly 1-sided.

Vexilus protects the boys, and ensures that Frodo always gets through. It can also allow my to pump Frodo before dropping Vex, though makes it a little awkward to put counters on later.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Game report:

Going last vs Ashling the Pilgrim, Karona, False God goad/forced combat, and Breena, the Demagogue goad/forced/incentivized combat. From pretty early on I was being targeted with removal from Karona and Breena, while everyone kind of ignored Ashling. Maybe because I was drawing a lot? My board wasn't especially scary. In any case, dropped The One Ring!!!!! Which saved me from damage in one combat. Spent a piece of removal and then Dusk to wipe everyone else's board and my Frodo which was equipped with Bloodthirsty Blade. Bottlenecked on mana big time, although Elanor was helping to ramp me each turn. Phased my team in response to the first Ashling activation of the game. Breena had Duelist's Heritage down, but never had a threatening enough board to point removal at it.

After the next boardwipe, I began rebuilding with Samwise Gamgee, Frodo Baggins, Aragorn, Company Leader, and Witch of the Moors. Spread some lifelink around, then dropped Motivated Pony to go for some big damage, but it got removed. Gained some life. Played Treebeard, and it got removed. Played Gyome, and started building up again. Witch got back Pony. Went down to 12 life from The Ring. Replayed Pony, and swung the team at Ashling to remove the threat of a board wipe and direct damage every turn. When he activated to wipe, I gave my team indestructible with Gyome, then activated Vault of the Archangle to get back up to 32 life.

Well, on Karona's turn, they played the commander, equipped it with something and swung at me, gaining +6/+6 in total...and Breena gave it doublestrike. I had no blockers. 21 commander. Frustrating way to go, but it was a good game.

I had Bats in hand for several turns, and felt like I would have played them if I had Sam and Peregrin Took out to make 2 food and sac them for cheap to ping the table with life totals so low, but Sam was at 9 mana to recast, and Peregrin had been removed, and I hadn't found a window to replay him til near the end. I also had Well of Lost Dreams in hand for half the game, again. Obviously, with The One Ring available, it kind of pales in comparison, but I also would have found it difficult to find a time to play a 4 mana card that I'd have to sink more mana into to gain a benefit. This might be its death knell.

I'm liking the foods interactions and usages, some of the life gain, and the legendary subtheme. Not sure how much I care for the minor aristocrats theme, although if I had drawn Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose I probably could have ended things sooner.

This deck can draw a TON of cards! Between Frodo, The One Ring, Idol of Oblivion, and Painful Truths (plus Breena, Karazikar, and some other shared draw from the table), I had gone through half my deck. it is a little frustrating that the deck LOOKS scary early, when it really isn't, and doesn't necessarily come out of nowhere later, so I've found it getting targeted when there are bigger, even more obvious threats at the table.



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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Clever Concealment has saved my board from a wipe twice so far, and both times was free to cast. May be worth looking at Flawless Maneuver here as well. The deck tends to have a commander in play from turn 2 onward.

Blossoming Bogbeast has been a solid finisher, but it can be a little awkward without haste.

Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles finally showed up for me, and I got to make some tokens off of it. Those were relevant to keep flyers off of me, but didn't end up mattering too much on offense. That said, I did have Frodo, Sauron's Bane in play, and could have used an eagle to deliver the ring to Mount Doom, as it were.

Motivated Pony has been very good numerous times, but not granting trample has led to some disappointing swings.

Witch of the Moors has been very solid.

Archangel of Thune I've had out twice. Once it pumped the board for a big swing, then everything got wiped next turn. The other time, it got removed immediately. I will say that giving +1/+1 on the first food sacrificed doesn't feel great, since what that often means is my weenies are slightly harder to block, and Frodo goes from being unblockable, or unable to be blocked to death, to getting punched up in combat.

Lathiel, the Bounteous Dawn has been kind of similar, except it doesn't even help the current turn's combat. This is getting axed.

I'm liking the legendary subtheme, with the addition of Reki, the History of Kamigawa, Frodo Baggins, and Samwise Gamgee.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Made some edits, but didn't track them well.

Highlights:
The 3 go tall hobbits (Rapacious Guest, Feasting Hobbit, Banquet Guests) got cut. Not sure that's the right call, particularly for Rapacious since it does quite a bit for the cost, but I've been supporting the legendary subtheme further, and these don't fit that. Also dropped Call of the Ring and Well of Lost Dreams. The former curves poorly with the main plan, I don't have that many tempt payoffs (although I have more than I did, so it may be worth adding back in), and find that I am rarely at a loss for cards in hand. Well gets the axe after having several games where I had it in hand, but didn't cast it--the deck doesn't tend to ramp fast enough to often have the ability to both gain life AND pay to draw cards off of it, on top of setting up with a 4-mana artifact. Basically was a straight swap for The One Ring.

Added Sméagol, Helpful Guide, Relic of Legends, Nethroi, Apex of Death, Vault of the Archangel. Relic has come up once so far, but was AMAZING! I cast the Dawn half of Dusk // Dawn [/card] to get back 12 or so creatures, most of which were legendary and 2-3 mana, so each one cast was 1/2-1/3 the cost of the next one. Nethroi is in as another big recursion spell that is kind of on-theme (life gain, legendary, prefers creatures with small power), and due to having one of the cool alt art versions on hand that I've been wanting to run, but is likely to get replaced eventually. Vault recently won me a game thanks to Gollum, Obsessed Stalker--I pumped the team with Pippin, Warden of Isengard, swung in with everything against an opponent with a lot of life and a number of blockers, made Gollum unblockable with Access Tunnel, and activated Vault. Between the damage that got through, and the amount of life I gained and Gollum would deal at EoT, that closed it out.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago


Upgrading the mana base a bit. A little torn, since I love the art on the precon lands, but with a strong pull for on 1, on 2, and on 3 it's kind of needed.

Also leaning a little more into the legendary subtheme.

Lathiel I was loath to cut, because I like the alt art version from Aftermath, but its ability just felt kind of awkard. I'd rather go with Nykthos Paragon I think for a similar effect, though I'm holding off on that for now.

The other cuts were mostly to make room for the adds. FTK I never got to try, so may bring it back eventually. Painful Truths was solid every time I saw it, but I also don't often find myself low on cards in hand. That said, I DID find myself in that spot in a game last night, with an empty board, and would have loved to topdeck it, so it's also likely to come back if I find I'm missing draw.

With few noncreatures, and most also being under 4 CMC, Gaddock seems pretty good at helping protect the deck from wipes and other problematic spells I can't otherwise do much about.

Glissa comes in because I'm struggling to find somewhere to put it as a generic good stuff card, but also because the deck is weak to tall tramplers, and Glissa just says "back the f*** off!"

Rapacious Guest comes back in, because it does a lot and I want to give it another shake.

Vexilus is here to further protect the partners, and ensure Frodo always gets through. Plus, once I start going tall with Archangel and skulk no longer functions, he'll still be unblockable.

Clever Concealment has shown up a few times, and has been fantastic every time! I have a number of white creatures that either don't attack (Sam), or have Vigilance (Frodo), so it's been free every time.

Agadeem's...because why not? I have very little basic searching in the deck (Elanor), so there isn't much reason to run basics, and the life loss to come in untapped is fairly negligible here.

Other Considerations

I have a Celestine, the Living Saint on the way, that could either replace Witch of the Moors or go in alongside it. Return to battlefield is almost always way better than to hand, but the edict on the Witch has been useful as well. Opinions?

Reassessing my board wipe suite. Essence Pulse is...cute...and on theme, but rarely as good as either a Damn or Toxic Deluge. In the latter case, it is only comparable/better when I need to kill very big things while low on life, and so far that hasn't come up. There are also some more one-sided wipes I'm considering, such as Urza's Ruinous Blast (with 20+ legendary permanents in the deck).

Also considering my recursion. I stuck Nethroi in, but haven't seen it yet. Other options include Primevals' Glorious Rebirth (again, 20+ targets) and Ascend from Avernus where X=3 gets back almost everything in the deck, and X=5 gets the rest.
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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Had a game last night where I could have killed anyone at the table with Frodo, Sauron's Bane on turn 5 (had not leveled it at all at that point). Felt kind of mean, so opted not to. Then I got punched with a 20/20 trampler, and I had to punish them.

Following that, there was a ton of interaction, my board got wiped a few times, and I was struggling to rebuild. Finally eliminated the interactive player, and then got smacked for half my life by the last remaining opponent who was running a precon out of the box. Thankfully, I drew into The One Ring from Frodo's attack triggers on my turn, dropped that and the rest of my hand. I also gave Gollum, Obsessed Stalker unblockable and got it in. On my next turn, I cast The Battle of Bywater, mostly for the food tokens, though it did get rid of a couple of strong pieces on his board. That got me to enough food that I could sac to gain more life than my opponent had left before proceeding to Gollum's trigger at end step. I'd be considering cutting Gollum, as well as the 'make unblockable' lands, but this game had me reconsidering.

Oh, I also ended the game with something like 17 lands! We went to 10+ turns, I think, but I also ramped a bunch out with The Ring Goes South and Elanor Gardner. Those two keep impressing.

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Post by yeti1069 » 9 months ago

People get VERY SALTY when I knock 'em out with Frodo, Sauron's Bane. Have had two people curse at me and leave abruptly. Both times, FSB came down fairly early, sat around doing nothing for a while, and then I swung with commander Frodo and FSB, moved the ring over to FSB so it could skulk under blockers, then leveled up all the way after blockers were declared. In the latter game, I'd been the target for every piece of removal, despite having done nothing threatening up to that point (2 hits from Frodo on one player, 1 hit on another, 1 Sméagol, Helpful Guide trigger). 3 of the removal pieces could have hit FSB, who I had played on turn 1.

Gaddock Teeg effectively shutdown Riku of Two Reflections--they discarded two extra turn spells to a looting effect after he hit the field--but it did trap both The Ring Goes South and Dusk//Dawn in hand.

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Post by yeti1069 » 9 months ago

Bennie Bracks, Zoologist is on the chopping block. On the one hand, he's often free to cast (or 1 mana occasionally), and draws an extra card each turn--essentially a Phyrexian Arena that doesn't cost mana, but draws at EOT instead of upkeep. If I were making tokens every turn, I think he'd be much better, but it's pretty rare that I'm able to make an additional token in a turn cycle. Probably will replace with something else that draws, although I admit that it's hard to replace a 0 cost draw engine.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 9 months ago

I think the list in the OP may be a bit outdated as I saw Lathiel as I was looking for stuff that makes tokens for Bennie Bracks.

My initial reaction to the cut idea was slight confusion. But then I realised my perspective is biased as I set down Pippin, Warden of Isengard during my sole game with the precon.
 
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Post by yeti1069 » 9 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
I think the list in the OP may be a bit outdated as I saw Lathiel as I was looking for stuff that makes tokens for Bennie Bracks.

My initial reaction to the cut idea was slight confusion. But then I realised my perspective is biased as I set down Pippin, Warden of Isengard during my sole game with the precon.
Not sure what Lathiel has to do with Bennie.

Yeah, Bennie loves Pippin, but other than that, and the occasional life gain + Gwaihir on an opponent's turn, the deck generally only gets one trigger/cycle. If I were running Smothering Tithe and a few other similar cards, I'd be higher on Bennie. Still, it's virtually free card draw, mana-wise, so I'm not necessarily rushing to cut it. The ideal curve for the deck is:
t1 - land, mana dork
t2 - land, Frodo, mana dork (other 1 drop)
t3 - land, Sam, make and sac food, swing with Frodo. That leaves at least 2 creatures and 3-4 mana open.

I have a handful of cards that I want to drop before combat on t3, like Smeagol, Rosie, Merry, which eats into the mana available for card draw on t3. This is where Bennie really shines. I can tap out for whatever creatures I want, and still drop Phyrexian Arena and draw the same turn. He also figures into the legendary subtheme, so it's not a dead card, I just don't know if it's quite worth the slot without getting 2+ draws/cycle.

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

When you have a 2-3 curve in the command zone I don't know that I'd bother with any early game ramp. Play end game ramp. Miraris wake type stuff. Earthcraft and cryptolith rite. Song of freyalise. Stuff that turns foods into mana if there is anything. Eg krark clan ironworks.

Inspiring Statuary would be another good one.

Stuff like Chord of Calling and other convoke stuff.

The dorks let you sac food earlier but that's most of what they do. You can always just crack more foods later.

Having critical mass of dorks is probably going to take up a lot of space for synergy and entice you to eat your foods early which may not be good.

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Post by yeti1069 » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
When you have a 2-3 curve in the command zone I don't know that I'd bother with any early game ramp. Play end game ramp. Miraris wake type stuff. Earthcraft and cryptolith rite. Song of freyalise. Stuff that turns foods into mana if there is anything. Eg krark clan ironworks.

Inspiring Statuary would be another good one.

Stuff like Chord of Calling and other convoke stuff.

The dorks let you sac food earlier but that's most of what they do. You can always just crack more foods later.

Having critical mass of dorks is probably going to take up a lot of space for synergy and entice you to eat your foods early which may not be good.
I had been thinking along similar lines, but I find that the deck REALLY wants Frodo on 2, Sam on 3, and if it can crack a food on 3 to get things going right away, it means drawing extra cards sooner.

I've found that the dorks have been decent for getting the main plan online swiftly, as well as being useful for a few things that care about bodies. Beyond that, with a loot every turn, extra dorks are often what I choose to pitch.

In terms of the late game ramp cards...Mirari's Wake is a good one generally, but I don't want to buff my creatures' powers full time--having a 1/X skulk is significantly better than a 2/X skulk. Earthcraft and Cryptolith functionally serve the same role as Relic of Legends--if I get Chatterfang in here, Cryptolith will look more appealing, and I don't own an Earthcraft. Song of Freyalise is an interesting one that I hadn't really considered. KCI and Inspiring Statuary were considerations, but with most of the deck being low to the ground and with heavy color requirements, I'd need to be adding in something to do with all that colorless mana. Right now, I have almost no way to use it. I am using Jaheira to turn Food tokens into mana, which is the heavy color of the deck, and it has been very good the couple of times I've drawn it.

Chord of Calling is certainly something I should probably have in here, although I feel like 90% of the time it tutors for Blossoming Bogbeast at last EOT to swing out on the following turn.

As far as cracking food, for the most part, I only sac 1/turn to trigger Frodo unless I specifically need the life gain for something else, but having more early mana means I am well-established to crack food on as a situation demands. I've had a couple of games where I was facing lethal damage, but was able to gain a big chunk of life to survive, or the inverse--I was able to gain enough life at once to kill someone with any of the life=buffs/damage payoffs.


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Post by yeti1069 » 9 months ago

The new Eldrazi precon is NUTS! Played against someone running it out of the box, and it was very scary.

I felt like I was kind of underpowered for the table, with a Lord of the Nazgul threatening a Bolas's Citadel + Sensei's Divining Top combo (minus the payoff) on turn 5 or 6, with some free interaction to back it up, and the red deck did some shenanigans to burn the table for about 20 on their turn in that cycle.

Make an Example came in somewhat clutch--I didn't have the mana to cast a more expensive wipe anyway, but it definitely left some stuff behind that I would have preferred to be gone this time around. Thankfully the red deck was scary enough that Eldrazi sent their Steel Hellkite at them rather than me: X=3 would have wiped my board of everything but Frodo and food tokens. I think the red player was salty--on their next turn they cast Blasphemous Act then left the game. That mostly pounded me into the ground, since I hadn't hit any ramp at all (5 or 6 mana), while Eldrazi was on something like 12+ mana.

The Eldrazi player didn't play optimally in a few places, which helped, but they were still terrifying. Boromir, Warden of the Tower's stax ability actually did a lot to mess with their deck, so it became a lightning rod for removal. My post-wipe recovery took 2 turns, but I managed to mutate Nethroi, Apex of Death onto Meriadoc Brandybuck and recur everything in my yard except a mana dork (I had sent Frodo and Sam to the bin). Eldrazi took an extra turn, and tried wiping my board with the Hellkite, but I just sacrificed Boromir to give the rest of my 3-drops indestructible.

On my next turn, when it finally came around, I plunked down Mirkwood Bats and swung in at Eldrazi who were kind of low, with Rapacious Guest, Treebeard, Sam, Frodo, Nethroi/Meriadoc, and Peregrine. After blockers, I sacrificed 3 food to give one of the unblocked hobbits +9/+9 from Treebeard. That, plus the Rapacious Guest growing and then dying as an 11/11 sealed the deal on Eldrazi, and Nazgul was low enough that the -3 life from The Ring was able to finish them off.

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