Greven, Predator Captain - No Pain No Gain

[Gamazson]

Black Market Connections seems to be a good addition to the deck and a strong card in general.

That card flew under my radar, but I think it has merit, Especially since we can choose 1 or more. I run Phyrexian Arena and I may test this in that slot.

[darrenhabib]

Black Market Connections seems to be a good addition to the deck and a strong card in general.

Black Market Connections particularly shines in this deck because of the 3/2 creature, it gives you a natural sac outlet for Grevan each turn.

Shadowheart, Dark Justiciar can stand in as a Grevan alternative. Now I have played Disciple of Bolas in this before and it was clutch in certain games when Grevan was shutout, but I did remove it because I just sort of moved into protecting and getting Grevan back into play in more ways.
But unlike Disciple of Bolas which is a once off effect Shadowheart, Dark Justiciar is a recurring engine and you can do it at instant speed which is a big deal when it comes to getting value at response to removal.
Worth a go anyway.

Wild Magic Surge I think is cEDH playable, it's better than you think. Now it shines more the competitive a table is, because strong decks are often based on cheap combos. Breaking up combos is very strong in competitive play. But as you go towards more casual games, then you get more Timmy like decks and you could often put something stronger onto the board. But anyway Choas Warp is good enough for this deck and so is Wild Magic Surge.

• Shadowheart, Dark Justiciar
• Black Market Connections
• Wild Magic Surge
• Dauthi Voidwalker

• Azra Oddsmaker
• Treasure Nabber
• Faithless Looting
• Animate Dead

[Gamazson]

I don't know if I agree about Shadowheart, Dark Justiciar. My gut instinct is it is too slow compared &/or mana intensive when compared to Disciple of Bolas. I have found that doing that once is enough to swing a game. I am going to be running Shadowheart in my Lathril, Blade of the Elves deck, so I'll use my experiences there to inform further consideration.

On that note, I have added Ruthless Technomancer. I have only had a couple games with it so far, but I have found the mana boost useful. I have sacrificed a wall of blood once and the second time I sacrificed Grevan after he had draw cards, pumped & atacked. A hand full of cards is less useful if you don't have the mana to follow up, which that play gave me in spades.

It's has been a year since I shared my last build. Here is where I am at currently:

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Greven, Predator Captain

Instant Lifegain

1 Alchemist's Gift

1 Blessing of Belzenlok

1 Cruel Feeding

1 Rush of Vitality

Creature

1 Anger

1 Chainer, Nightmare Adept

1 Combat Celebrant

1 Daring Fiendbonder

1 Disciple of Bolas

1 Filth

1 Flametongue Kavu

1 Generator Servant

1 Kardur, Doomscourge

1 Kargan Intimidator

1 Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar

1 Keen Duelist

1 Ruthless Technomancer

1 Shakedown Heavy

1 Vilis, Broker of Blood

1 Vindictive Lich

Reanimation

1 Animate Dead

1 Reanimate

Mana Rock

1 Arcane Signet

1 Charcoal Diamond

1 Coldsteel Heart

1 Fellwar Stone

1 Fire Diamond

1 Mana Vault

1 Mind Stone

1 Rakdos Signet

1 Sol Ring

1 Talisman of Indulgence

1 Thought Vessel

Enchantment

1 Black Market Connections

1 Phyrexian Reclamation

1 Sneak Attack

Protection

1 Bolt Bend

1 Deflecting Swat

1 Imp's Mischief

Mass Destruction

1 Chandra's Ignition

1 Fire Covenant

1 Phyrexian Purge

1 Toxic Deluge

Instant Mana

1 Dark Ritual

Card Advantage

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Grim Tutor

1 Sign in Blood

1 Vampiric Tutor

Lifegain

1 Essence Harvest

1 Whip of Erebos

Looting

1 Faithless Looting

Sorcery Removal & Theft

1 Feed the Swarm

1 Tentative Connection

1 Vandalblast

Instant Tricks

1 Act of Aggression

1 Fling

1 Hatred

Life Combo Creatures

1 Immolating Souleater

1 Moltensteel Dragon

1 Treasonous Ogre

1 Volcano Hellion

1 Wall of Blood

Artifact

1 Netherborn Altar

Equipment

1 Shadowspear

Land

1 Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt

1 Akoum Refuge

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Blightstep Pathway // Searstep Pathway

1 Blood Crypt

1 Bloodfell Caves

1 Command Beacon

1 Command Tower

1 Graven Cairns

1 Hall of the Bandit Lord

1 Haunted Ridge

1 Luxury Suite

1 Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire

6 Mountain

1 Reliquary Tower

1 Rogue's Passage

1 Shadowblood Ridge

1 Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass

1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse

1 Smoldering Marsh

1 Sulfurous Springs

7 Swamp

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Witch's Clinic

Approximate Total Cost:

[Ardeyn]

Any reason there is no Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer in b this list? It ramps you into Greven, gives you some play against Top Deck Tutors, sometimes gives you cards off opponents' decks and at worst will draw you two cards for one mana when sacrificed to Greven.
I added it to my version and am really happy I did.

Ardeyn

[Gamazson]

Financial cost to deck benefit ratio isn't there for me. Most of the pieces in my build worth more than $25 were acquired when they had a lower price tag, or they are staples suitable for any deck.

[Ardeyn]

That is actually a pretty good reason.
I realized that darrenhabib - who doesn't seem to have any budget constraints - doesn't run the monkey either. Even though I think it's overhyped in EDH, I feel like it's a good card here though, if budger allows.
On another note: I really like Unexpected Fangs for its permanent lifelink.

Ardeyn

Ardeyn

[darrenhabib]

That is actually a pretty good reason.
I realized that darrenhabib - who doesn't seem to have any budget constraints - doesn't run the monkey either. Even though I think it's overhyped in EDH, I feel like it's a good card here though, if budger allows.
On another note: I really like Unexpected Fangs for its permanent lifelink.

Actually because of the price I've never looked to purchase Ragavan, so it's not been on my thoughts for EDH decks. But I think it would be a good addition, you can never go wrong with additional mana and card advantage
If I ever get one I'd probably replace Birgi, God of Storytelling.

[Gamazson]

I was looking over the Baldur's Gate cards again and noticed this:

How did I miss this! This card is going straight into my deck!

Yes it gives mana to our opponents, but we get the mana first and unlike them, hurting ourselves is helpful.

One way or another Grevan wants the game over fast. This will do that occupying the same slot as a 3 cmc mana rock.

[darrenhabib]

Not much has changed with the deck. Some expensive to buy cards with Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer and Sheoldred, the Apocalypse.

A turn one Urza's Saga can cast Greven on turn 3 and Shadowspear can be a nice target later on in the game. Also making constructs for sac value on Greven is not out-of-the-question either.

A card that will be automatic included is Mount Doom from the Lord of the Rings set.

Does anybody else have any suggestions, changes they have made, new cards I should know about?

• Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
• Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
• K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
• Urza's Saga

• Necromancy
• Birgi, God of Storytelling
• Shadowheart, Dark Justiciar
• Flametongue Kavu

[darrenhabib]

There are some choice new lands that can be added to the deck with LotR in Mount Doom, The Black Gate, Mines of Moria.
With Mount Doom there is only Shadowspear and Whip of Erebos as a Legendary artifact, and I think that it's such a powerful effect that I'm adding both Mox Amber and Mox Opal to the deck. But I'm actually removing Whip of Erebos as it's too much of an investment and saccing it to Mount Doom isn't cost efficient.
I'm not so sure about Mines of Moria as it can be a tapped land a lot of the time, but it can provide additional mana in those games where you've been grinded out a bit and need to cast Grevan with commander tax. Going to test it.

I've added Defiler of Flesh as another body to sac to Grevan in a pinch, but it provides mana abilities and life loss so perfect.

Added

• Defiler of Flesh
• Mox Amber
• Mox Opal
• Cabal Ritual
• Mount Doom
• The Black Gate
• Mines of Moria

Removed

• Chainer, Nightmare Adept
• Plunge into Darkness
• Chaos Warp
• Whip of Erebos
• Graven Cairns
• Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
• Mountain

[Artemis132]

Im glad to see you continue your work on the list. Im still playing the deck now and then, showing my opponents some rakdos-love by surprise-one-shotting them with Greven.

Sheoldred, Ragavan, and Urzas Saga seem to be perfect additions to the deck.
Mox Opal and Mox Amber will not be turned on in the first 3 turns in many games and they will often not help to ramp out Greven, so I am a bit sceptical about adding them. If your argument is that they should be considered because of their synergy with Mount Doom, maybe there are other legendary artifacts that would not be powerful/efficient enough on there own but could be taken into consideration because of the new wrath-land now, for example The Reaver Cleaver or Mask of Griselbrand.

What made you change your mind about K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth in this deck? you once had him in your deck but cut him.
Defiler is a lot less exiting in my opinion since he only reduces costs of permanent spells and only one mana per spell at maximum. The menace he gives is not needed.

Another card I do consider is Plaza of Heroes as an additional layer of protection in mid-game.

[darrenhabib]

Im glad to see you continue your work on the list. Im still playing the deck now and then, showing my opponents some rakdos-love by surprise-one-shotting them with Greven.

Sheoldred, Ragavan, and Urzas Saga seem to be perfect additions to the deck.
Mox Opal and Mox Amber will not be turned on in the first 3 turns in many games and they will often not help to ramp out Greven, so I am a bit sceptical about adding them. If your argument is that they should be considered because of their synergy with Mount Doom, maybe there are other legendary artifacts that would not be powerful/efficient enough on there own but could be taken into consideration because of the new wrath-land now, for example The Reaver Cleaver or Mask of Griselbrand.

What made you change your mind about K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth in this deck? you once had him in your deck but cut him.
Defiler is a lot less exiting in my opinion since he only reduces costs of permanent spells and only one mana per spell at maximum. The menace he gives is not needed.

Another card I do consider is Plaza of Heroes as an additional layer of protection in mid-game.

I agree that most of the time Mox Opal and Mox Amber won't help the beginning game, but they are nice to drop for zero mana if you do get a big draw, rather than just discarding cards at end of turn. I was thinking about adding some artifact lands to make Mox Opal turn on more, but always wary of artifact removal or Collector Ouphe type cards stopping them.
The Reaver Cleaver or Mask of Griselbrand are powerful cards but they are effectively 6 mana to use.

I think my creature count was pretty low when I had K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth and never wanted to use him as a sac creature. Now I have enough creatures that I have him as simply a mana source instead.

I think try Plaza of Heroes over Reliquary Tower now that I have more mana sources in the deck, a few more ways to cast cards before discarding.

Added
Plaza of Heroes

Removed
Reliquary Tower

[Discombobulated]

Been a couple years and glad to see this thread still going.

Some cards for consideration that I have been using - Trying to kill an oppenent by turn 2:
Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar- needed for multiplayer
Malignus?
Chainer, Nighmare Adept

Fury of the Horde
Plunge into Darkness
Essence Harvest
Chandra's Ignition

Whip of Erobos
Netherborn Altar

[darrenhabib]

Been a couple years and glad to see this thread still going.

Some cards for consideration that I have been using - Trying to kill an oppenent by turn 2:
Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar- needed for multiplayer
Malignus?
Chainer, Nighmare Adept

Fury of the Horde
Plunge into Darkness
Essence Harvest
Chandra's Ignition

Whip of Erobos
Netherborn Altar

I have tried most of those cards at some stage. If you look at the original primer, which I haven't changed except for the deck list it mentions a lot of these cards.
Essence Harvest is still in the deck

But Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar is a card that I haven't tried and I really should. I'll give it a go.

I've seen Orcish Bowmasters in action in Modern and it is a powerhouse. Amass a big Orc happens pretty quickly and clearing out 1/1 blockers, etc is pretty great.

I have a lot of success with Anger and Filth discarding to hand size, so I want to add Entomb as a way to get to these quickly. I can also Entomb for Daring Fiendbonder.
Adding a basic Mountain back so that I can use Prismatic Vista to turn on Anger. Unfortunately I think Mines of Moria is the cut, without ever having actually tested it, but oh well.

Add
Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar
Orcish Bowmasters
Lotus Petal
Entomb
Mountain

Remove
Defiler of Flesh
Silent Arbiter
Vindictive Lich
Ad Nauseam
Mines of Moria

[darrenhabib]

Rowan, Scion of War is custom made for this deck. I counted that there are 40 cards that are red/black and have generic mana in the deck.
Even the 4 power can be used to sac to Grevan if you are bottlenecked on cards rather than mana.
She can even hep to cast Tentative Connection or Bolt Bend if Grevan is not around.

With K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth you can cast all your black cards for free. Even casting K'rrik is free because Rowan, Scion of War reduces the colorless mana.

Add
Rowan, Scion of War

Remove
Living Death

[darrenhabib]

I want to find a place for Minas Morgul, Dark Fortress but the fact that it comes into play tapped is a big deal.
We already have Shizo, Death's Storehouse and The Black Gate as lands that give evasion.
I only have 2 lands that come into play tapped and they are Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire and Hall of the Bandit Lord.
The need for speed in the deck does mean that tapped lands are a liability in situations.
How about Rogue's Passage VS Minas Morgul, Dark Fortress?
One comes into play untapped, but Rogue's Passage requires using every turn, where as Minas Morgul, Dark Fortress just needs to be activated once. Minas Morgul also provides b rather than colorless. Minas Morgul can also be activated at any time, so you can do it just before your turn if you have open mana.
My gut feeling is that coming into play tapped just is too much of a downside considering there is Rogue's Passage and I've always felt that the 5 mana (land has to be tapped itself) is too much to commit considering the deck wants to use all its mana every turn.

If I do add it to the deck it would replace a spell and not a land, as I don't want to trade a tapped land for an untapped land.

[Artaud]

I think neither is worth a slot. Depending on your board you're basicaly tapping out to make Greven unblockable while this 5 mana could rather be spend for more threats/enablers/protection. I'd rather add Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep if you're worried about combat and/or invest in more trample outlets.

[Haman]

In my meta, they tend to hit me quite hard, even before i cast my commander , that i cant even use that much life loss cards.... do u have such peoblem?

[darrenhabib]

In my meta, they tend to hit me quite hard, even before i cast my commander , that i cant even use that much life loss cards.... do u have such peoblem?

I did put the "all in" tag to this thread because that's what games are like. While you can one shot opponents, the retaliation from other players is real.
That's why I value a card like Kardur, Doomscourge in this deck because it gives you a reprieve.
I moved away from creatures that have downsides to being in play for long or no defensive value like Rotting Regisaur, Phyrexian Soulgorger, Lupine Prototype, Lightning Skelemental, Relic Golem, Cosmic Larva, etc, for the reason of having a better earlier game where you can commit creatures to the board to block attacks to keep life total higher.

Without a doubt you are always managing how much you can do down to your last life point and sometimes you just don't get there and are basically locked out.
But you can still navigate a great turn even if you start the turn with 15 life say. It's more risky and less likely to be successful than if you were near your starting life total, but its still manageable.

Another thing I have done is taken out card advantage spells that do damage/life loss because often you don't have the life to make the cards super effective; Plunge into Darkness, Ad Nauseam, Bolas's Citadel for example.

[darrenhabib]

I love the The Beast, Deathless Prince for this deck! Stealing a creature to sacrifice to Greven is really amazing tempo play and this also has a large body to sacrifice later. Probably unlikely to trigger the last ability, as you'll be sacrificing the stolen creature rather than connecting with it but this isn't really a factor.
It's a cast trigger, so can't be countered as far as stealing a creature.

Doom Whisperer is a good card, but I have moved away from graveyard matters overtime, so even though it's a combo card, I'm okay with swapping out forThe Beast, Deathless Prince that you are happy to sacrifice and gives you two bodies.

• The Beast, Deathless Prince

• Doom Whisperer