Go, Xantcha, Go! Garbage Espionage!

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

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The Brudiclad furrowed his brow, failed to find an out, winced and turned the Xantcha sideways at Mayael, hoping to not die. Mayael saw the benefit of having an ally around, and chose not to kill Brudiclad by letting the Xantcha in and taking seven damage. Brudiclad passed. Mayael untapped, added two more fistfuls of cards to the 20+ already sitting in hand, stared down my absolute lack of board (the biggest creature being a 3/3 token from a Pongify) and threw in the towel.

It doesn't get much greater as far as debut games go. Even if technically this was version two of Baby's First Consciously Wildly Suboptimal Deck.

Xantcha, Sleeper Agent is a commander I've had an affinity for since she was spoiled, but I had little interest in her conventional infinite mana and board control direction. I was far more interested in using her as a remote voltron, souping her up from afar with stuff like Sword of the Chosen and seeing if I can off people that way. My initial build from way back when also featured an attempt at Rakdos ETB, which is not a thing for a reason. The list felt like it was consistently two turns behind the rest of the table, and fell to the wayside once 2019 rolled out other attractive commander options. I only recalled how fun Xantcha was when I wandered into a Cockatrice room where a stranger was testing a budget deck, and I saw her in my old deck folder when looking for something appropriate to load up. Couple that with recent additions like Demonic Embrace and I was convinced to give her another spin. As such, I trimmed the non-functional ETB wannabe angle and jammed the deck full of further remote voltron support plus some cute pillow forty/political cards. That game from the top was carried by Brash Taunter (who "befriended" Impervious Greatwurm) and Treacherous Link.

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The deck runs ample rocks as a way to game the system - it's a garbage tier deck, so it's gonna face other garbage tier decks more often than not, and you don't poop on someone's rocks when you're in the potato bracket. Something that I'm worried about is that like a lot of wannabe political decks, this thing is going to fall apart in the final 1v1 more often than not. The original iteration of the deck put a lot of faith in Heartstone (plus Sculpting Steel) to get there. The current take runs some shenanigans that should give the deck a bit more game in the final showdown, but this is still something that I can foresee myself struggling with. What do ya'll make of this, oh wise Nexus collective?
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Last edited by Rumpy5897 3 years ago, edited 9 times in total.
 
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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

This is hillarious. I positively beamed when I looked at the "Live, Xantcha, Live!" section and saw Blessing of Leeches and Medicine Bag. I dig that you included stuff that keeps her alive or brings her back when sacrificed too. Clever.

Proxy voltron seems sweet. The closest thing I could think of was Ruhan of the Fomori or Assault Suit.

Crown of Doom is such a sweet card. I also think playing with nonsense like Captive Audience would be delightful.

My only question/comment other than applause is about Grave Betrayal: do you get to order the control clauses somehow? Betrayal puts the creature under your control upon ETB, but Xantcha tries to go elsewhere. Do you get to decide? Seems iffy to me, but I'm no judge. EDIT: re-read Xantcha and it seems clearer. Betrayal puts her out under your control, but Xantcha says another player "gains control".
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Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

Sleeper's Guile for some evasion say over Fists of the Demigod.
Corrupting Licid is similar in that if Xantcha is dying you can turn it back into a creature so it stays on the board.

I'll suggest a slightly different tack to the pillow fort plan. There are more various regeneration cards, and so instead look at regen and using destroy sweepers.
Soul Channeling and Horror of Horrors are additional regen. Boon of Erebos at instant speed.

I like Last One Standing with the regeneration cards. Put a regen shield on Xantcha and cast.

Fire Covenant and Toxic Deluge also allow you to keep Xantcha on the board.

No Mercy for the pillow fort.

Also with all the unblockable cards you can double up on further creatures like Azra Oddsmaker, Grenzo, Havoc Raiser, Master of Cruelties, Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion, Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor, Virtus the Veiled, Phage the Untouchable.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Thanks for the feedback! Plenty of cool stuff to ponder.

To the best of my understanding, Grave Betrayal works with Xantcha as when she dies, she isn't under your control. As such, she tries to return, but gets sent on a quest again as a replacement effect. Another ruling thing is that Errantry/Silent Arbiter work with Xantcha - she's forced to attack, and as a result locks out all the rest of the player's creatures from going in.

The suggestion for extra sweepers makes sense, as it does clean up the way for Xantcha to roll in. Another useful class of effects here are various Pestilence effects to do this repeatedly. However, there's only so good a gimmick deck like this can be, and we're not a super wipe'y meta even in more tryhard games. As such, claiming to field a potato bracket deck only to constantly blow up creatures is not something I feel comfortable doing. That, along with various discard angles and infinite mana into "I win", are perfectly legit ways to build Xantcha that I'm trying to avoid here. With regards to one-shot regeneration, I'm also a fan of Supernatural Stamina variants that just plop stuff back from the graveyard onto the field.

I love the evasion into high-end saboteurs angle, as it both grants some semblance of conventional power and offers sinks for redundant copies of unblockability. Sleeper's Guile got ousted at the eleventh hour of the initial draft when I recalled the more impervious Cover of Darkness exists, but it may find its way in along with Corrupting Licid. I'm particularly fond of Master of Cruelties and Phage the Untouchable. Thanks for this!

Some other stuff that I've been considering, had recommended, or that got offed from the super rough draft, were extra voltron support options in the form of damage doublers, high-end instant pump and Captive Flame/Ghitu War Cry. Heck, at one point I was musing jamming enough various Temur Battle Rages and whatnot to cram in Isochron Scepter! However, I have some level of reservations about all of these. Damage doublers are risky business with regards to survival, especially given the wafer-thin twelve creatures. They do also make for prime hilarity with Brash Taunter/Stuffy Doll, so there's that. The "global firebreathing" was present in the ill-fated Rakdos ETB take of yesteryear, and was doing dismally there, which makes me hesitant to try it again. The supercharging instants seem most feasible, but I'm worried that they could lead to premature blowouts.

Essentially the answer to all this is putting a bunch of games on the list and seeing what works before making any sweeping changes. It's a bit of a weird deck for me, so I need to get a feel for it. Is Fires of Invention going to do stuff, or is it just going to be garbage? Need to find out empirically. Pity that I cobbled this together just as my group got a bit fed up with EDH and getting test games in became harder :P
 
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Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
3 years ago
I'm also a fan of Supernatural Stamina variants that just plop stuff back from the graveyard onto the field.

I'm particularly fond of Master of Cruelties and Phage the Untouchable. Thanks for this!

Is Fires of Invention going to do stuff, or is it just going to be garbage?
Wow, I didn't know Supernatural Stamina existed and that is an automatic include for my Grevan deck, sweet!

Of note Phage the Untouchable is a Minion to go along with Cover of Darkness and Xantcha

Fires should be good, actually an underrated card in commander imo. I have a lot of mana sink decks I'd love access to red for this card.
But yeah cut Psychotic Fury a bit awkward with Fires.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Good news, the group seems to enjoy Xantcha. The more explicit focus on the pillow fort and the remote voltron helps the deck be a bit less of a joke than last time around. In fact, had I not punted sequencing in the test game that just ended (should have recast Demonic Embrace rather than... whatever I did), I'd have walked away victorious. I'm pretty sure OG Xantcha may have won like two games total during its far longer run, not counting a few instances of Dualcaster Mage cheese later on. This deck is a bit of a novel concept for me, both in terms of piloting and the fact I kind of need to pack two game plans. The remote voltron plan goes to hell when I'm down to the final 1v1, and I need to cook something else up. It would be nice if whatever I cook up would still be useful in the earlier multiplayer setting though.

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The bulk of the new includes are Darren's great suggestions, some of which caused a bit of a stir in the group. Phage/Master are spooky. My attempts at explanation that these are pretty high drops and need evasion to be properly scary, plus are ripe for the interaction pickings, landed on deaf ears. I proposed a compromise - I add them, and if they ruin games with any degree of regularity I'll take them out. The group agreed to this. Guess who's looking right so far? Phage has landed once so far, on a board state where had I not punted the sequencing I'd have used her to blow up the last guy standing immediately after he took out the other player. Seeing how I did screw up, more of the table was alive than there should have been, and I died on the crackback before this even came to be. I'm pretty sure I'm right, and the god tier saboteurs will get to live. No Mercy is primo low-power-game forting, and Captivating Crew is another attempt at 1v1 relevance with some potential broader appeal. Repeatable Threatens are quite good at turning the tide of a duel, and the Crew can potentially yoink something else (like a Xantcha for an extra swing?) earlier in the game too. The heavy level of rocks led me to add Unwinding Clock plus its matching artifact lands. I'm tempted to add Chromatic Orrery. I mean, I already run all the other classic big hitters like Gilded Lotus and Thran Dynamo, and have a command zone mana sink like my other deck that gets to run it.

Cut-wise, I went in a bit blind. I didn't get to see all of the 99 in action before I giddily added the saboteurs. Captive Audience is unfortunately more meme than good, it's a seven mana slow as heck thing that kinda does stuff, but then does also give out board-wide zombie hordes when the deck struggles with presence as-is. Night's Whisper/Read the Bones are decent cards, but the command zone mana sink draws, so I never had any issue with insufficient action. Solemn Simulacrum is woefully slow in a world where rock survival is not a concern. Sudden Spoiling is a cute one-shot trick with surprisingly broad appeal, but I can't see it turning tides of battle too often. Plus for now I'm trying to find the footing of the dual game plan thing. Of these cuts, I'd argue it's the most likely to come back.

Some thoughts on things that were good:
  • Fists of the Demigod proved itself super handy when Xantcha had to go up evasion-free against some big blockers. Well, not big anymore. Engaging in combat with a 7/7 first strike wither is not gonna go great for most bodies. I don't think most other non-repeatable auras offer similar levels of benefit though, so this and Errantry will likely remain the only representatives of the category.
  • Manifold Key is actually super flexible. In one hyper greedy keep game (I technically kept a no-lander!), it offered the option to either be a bit of ramp with Mana Crypt or a colour filter with Talisman of Indulgence. And then it also grants unblockability, in a non-summoning-sick fashion, on a one-drop. Wow.
  • Grave Betrayal is a bomb in here. Combine with a wrath for a board in a can (1v1 relevance too!), have combat death Xantcha hop back onto the field and flop around between opponents, eating bits of board until she stops dying. Also nice for Steve and other sac-utility creature borrowing.
  • Treacherous Link was instrumental in getting that crazy debut game online, and it's just generally useful for game acceleration and combat mind games. It's nice.
  • Fires of Invention was great the one time it showed up. The freed up mana went into Xantcha sinks, helping hit further land drops, opening up more of the hand to play. Heavy ramp, and seeing how there's not that much instant speed action the sacrifice is relatively minimal. I have little interest in pursuing further double strike instants at this time, but would quite like to see Psychotic Fury in action prior to making a cut decision.
  • Royal Assassin grinds games to a halt. People are afraid to tap creatures for anything so they don't just die. Its designated purpose is to act as a rattlesnake for swingers that comes down reasonably early, but it ends up doing a lot more than that. Combined with Grave Betrayal one game, now that one really froze shut. I was later on sitting on a Necromantic Selection, but the guy in the lead had a Selfless Spirit, so I hatched a semi-elaborate plan by sticking a Bloodthirsty Blade on it with the intention of assassination to make way for the wipe. And then Guild Feud hit Phage and that was the end of that :P
There's also been some stuff that's been a bit more eh than expected:
  • The summoning sickness on Dauthi Trapper and Suspicious Bookcase is not the best, but they do grant very good evasion. And shadow is also situationally good at making a Xantcha that hasn't gotten to swing yet unable to block any of the wall of fat its controller gets to have come at them. Between these and the saboteurs, I'm not sure if it's worth pursuing haste.
  • I remember Medicine Bag being more meme than good in the original list, but it does fit the remote theme and is a hell of a meme. Let's wait for it to continue being of dubious utility for a bit longer before taking action.
  • I've drawn Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs a couple of times, but somehow never feel incentivised to sink five mana into him.
  • The Will-o'-the-Wisps requiring a mana to regenerate is actually a surprisingly nontrivial cost when you're trying to balance dumping spells with drawing cards and whatnot else.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Good news - Xantcha ended up getting a second win! And all it took was a turn one Sword of the Chosen into a turn three Gilded Lotus, with a Heartstone arriving soon thereafter! The finish itself was pretty cool though - Mayael is my Xantcha proxy, and eventually dropps in something fat I don't remember. Huh, I'd rather not take that to the face. So I stick Bloodthirsty Blade on it, and the fat smacks into Radha 2.0 as Xantcha kills off the third guy. Mayael catches his stride and plops down a bunch of other bodies, among them a Hydra Omnivore. I go into the tank for a bit and emerge with a fun finishing line. The Blade transfers over to the Omnivore, Captivating Crew comes down, I yoink the Omnivore and some other fat, killing off Radha and having the Omnivore's 10 damage exactsies Mayael. I could have just drawn one with Xantcha and not bothered with the Blade swaparoo, but it was funnier this way :P As such, I guess it's time to embrace the fact this is a big mana deck, and call in my transferable expertise from Daxos and Feather.


Daxos experience brings in various big mana. Cabal Coffers and Crypt Ghast will work nicely here, especially given the fact the ally pair has a lot of fetchable duals (which might get further increased if the deck "sticks" and I try to trade into a Badlands). Both of these are fans of Expedition Map. Xantcha was quite happy to land that fast Lotus in the aforementioned game, and wouldn't mind further ramping when on seven, so it passes the Chromatic Orrery test. Meanwhile, Feather brings with it the power to proxy stupid zero-drop rocks. A Chrome Mox/Mox Diamond in the opener can help chase out some sort of turn one support piece into a turn two Xantcha - pretty good! And the card disadvantage can be mitigated with the mana sink draw. Also I hear consistency is good, so Grim Tutor and Imperial Recruiter in. The latter has a very nice toolbox to work with here - some highlights include Brash Taunter, Crypt Ghast, Master of Cruelties and Silent Arbiter.

In terms of cuts, I'm downsizing my two-drop rock department a bit, along with Worn Powerstone. Two mana for an investment of three is nice, but the CIPT clause is unpleasant in early-game sequencing. Curse of Opulence may be nice and cheap, but is also a bit unreliable given how sparse combat tends to be in EDH (and Xantcha swings tend to get spread too). Seeing how I was musing about downsizing Will-o'-the-Wisps, Fog of Gnats is taking a timeout. I drew Kazuul again, and still had no incentive to play him, so out he goes. There's always something - the swarm's evasive, or the creatures are huge and tramply. It just never feels worth fronting 5 for the privilege. On similar grounds, Neheb, the Eternal never really wanted to come out in the frantic sequencing. I could see putting him back in once I figure out piloting and constituents, as he is kind of a mana doubler in a way, but currently a bit of a winmore one. Sculpting Steel kept being held for Heartstone (and, frankly, two Heartstones is usually overkill anyway), and even trying to use it consciously for other tasks had poor results as there are only so many big rocks.

Other general gameplay thoughts:
  • As demonstrated in the write-up at the start of the post, and encountered each time they get drawn, Bloodthirsty Blade's deflection and Captivating Crew's repeated Threatens are honestly nothing to sneeze at in lower power scenarios. I'd recommend them for compatible shenanigans'y decks. Although it should be noted that nabbing a guy's lethal-size hydra and killing him with it may elicit salinity :P
  • Medicine Bag is yet to get cast. I'm starting to consider swapping it for an evasion piece, but it needs to rot in hand a few more times for me to mature to this decision. Such glorious jank.
  • Unwinding Clock is a bit shaky. In Feather, all it takes for this to be good is a single tiny mana rock. Xantcha shotguns allotments of three. However, a few games with this reconfigured list had mana come together easier, leading to more draw, leading to more rocks, so it might just need some more appearances to fully iron itself out.
  • Psychotic Fury was gonna kill Gisa with a surprise burst of aerial double strike, as there were a Dreadnought's worth of zombos around, but just prior to that Gisa got together enough stuff to Exsanguinate the board away. That's something, I guess? Needs more data.
  • Phyrexian Arena and Voyager Staff seemed like middling filler in here, but I just had a game where they both showed up and did fine. Turns out set and forget draw is still nice, and the threat of the Staff slow-blink kept Xantcha alive despite an opponent drawing and sitting on an Anguished Unmaking.
  • Master of Cruelties and Phage are staying. They both made an appearance against the biggest naysayer, on Brudiclad, and his blood pressure rose each time one of them landed, and then he promptly had removal. Would you look at that, they come out at manageable times, aren't protected by a wall of counters, are but two cards in the 99, and are interactable! :P
 
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 3 years ago

This is a really neat deck. A friend in my playgroup runs her to good effect. I like it because it does something different and provides a home for cards that otherwise aren't run.

I do worry about Phage entering the battlefield by accident - say an opponent's Living Death or an blink effect. I feel like this has the potential to backfire too much - at least against the decks I typically run against. Additionally, she costs an absolute arm and a leg to cast and has absolutely no built in evasion or protection, ironically given her name. She is the very definition of a glass cannon which I find typically don't work well in EDH. Most often all your mana investment will just go down the drain to a removal spell.

You might consider Quietus Spike instead which can be very brutal with your other shenanigans.

A card you might give a test run is Repercussion. This can be a fantastic win condition if built around. You already have Blasphemous Act, but things like Starstorm and Star of Extinction or any large global burn effects work very well and can kill players instantly. This could even be a part of the backup plan you've talked about. Having very few creatures of your own makes this a perfect fit IMO. You might even consider some cards that increase your opponent's creature count giving them a false sense of security, then WHAMMO!

Something else you might consider are draw hurts cards like Underworld Dreams and Spiteful Visions. I feel like like superior card advantage on your opponent's' side is something to be leery of and these cards can really punish certain decks. Everyone knows drawing cards in commander is one of the most powerful things you can do.

Stranglehold seems really good in here too.
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Thanks for the feedback, more cool considerations! Repercussion should probably get tested soon, I think the reason I skipped out on it in the original draft is that I thought it'd incentivise blocking Xantcha. Still, even then, one could argue it's moving the game forward, so there's that. I'm trying to avoid going too wrath-heavy, plus there's already a deck in the group that's all about self-damaging creatures (and another one that's about handing out creatures and punishing people for it!), but it's a good angle to keep in mind. The Quietus Spike might have trouble finding a carrier given the creature scarcity, but I've got Virtus the Veiled waiting for a slot to open up. In case I don't feel like swinging, the fact he's a deathtoucher is surprisingly relevant defensively too. Many a swing has been deterred by a humble Skullwinder. The draw punishers and Stranglehold are valid, but I'm not sure they're territory I want to explore. This is a heavily stipulated deck, avoiding common Xantcha nastiness, and doesn't have particularly high ambitions when sitting down at a table. Seeing how I'm already not playing to win super hard, may as well avoid making others' experience miserable in general, and if the gloves are to come off then I can switch to Feather or something :P Along similar willingly casual lines, I find Phage funny, ridiculous game-losing warts and all. Here you are (rightfully) dissuading me from running her, whereas my group thought she'd be wildly overpowered.

Just had a model good/very good draw that encompasses the desired gameplay dynamic of the deck. The aforementioned self-damage deck was to my left, so he foreseeably got to be the Xantcha carrier. He chased out his Ravos pretty early, which coupled with my Bloodthirsty Blade to three-shot the other two guys in the pod just as they were nearing stabilisation. I didn't do a lot in the meantime, chased out Gilded Lotus and some subsequent two-drop rocks, had Xantcha evasive via Cover of Darkness and was sitting on a Nim Deathmantle trigger in case it would be necessary. I drew some cards with spare mana, and watched my Xantcha wielder set up Boros Reckoner with a Druid's Call. That's a bit of a warning sign, so I blew a Demonic Tutor on instant speed removal just in case. My hunch was correct, as the stars finally aligned and self-damage ripped Star of Extinction. I chanced into Phage, opted to forego Xantcha revival for some extra cards and poofed the Reckoner. Alas, there was still a gigantic Phytohydra... a job for Voyager Staff, apparently! Phage came down, wasn't removed, and made use of the Cover fear to close out the game. Exactly how I envisioned - remote voltron disposal of the opposition, draw into some options, and then rolling out a designated transformational 1v1 haymaker and closing out with it. I used the opportunity to latch onto the game as a model example and asked around if people are fine with the deck aiming for this sort of gameplay. The response has been positive. Papering out seems likely! I need to get a whole bunch of games in to iron out the creases, but it's been hard recently to get the group together.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

I executed a few swaps, was drafting some more, and the deck faded away with some un-pushed changes. Storing them here for completeness as I clean up the backlog.

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I was brainstorming going even deeper on the big mana, with Mana Geyser, Doubling Cube and Exsanguinate variants when I realised the deck doesn't have a future. The whole remote voltron angle is a fun and unique thing to do, but leaves you with little to do once it's final 1v1 time. This meant the deck had to stoop to some cheesy lines like Master of Cruelties to get the job done in the final confrontation, which kind of invalidated the rest of the game. I land a god tier saboteur, give it evasion, swing, nothing that happened before matters. This was fun a few times, but got tedious with time.

This is unfortunately a global problem of the deck, and there's not a lot that can be done to make this go away. The primary game plan of remote voltron does not offer much to help close out the final duel, and whatever I could attempt to have game in the final 1v1 would not work well with the whole "keep Xantcha swinging from afar" angle that had me excited. Aside from cheesy saboteurs, the deck could go super deep on ramp and drain the opposition to a crisp via activations. But that's also not particularly interesting. Just like Exsanguinates with their "look at me, I have mana, I win". As such, unless some high-level solution to the final duel issue is implemented, the deck's done for.
 
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