Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[pokken]

That looks like a sensible path. I long since cut both of those cards due to cost.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, Grim Servant seems cracked here. Grim Tutor on a body is wildly good for us, and it's honestly wild that this card is an uncommon. I'll definitely be picking a copy up, and it's nice to know that when I do, if I choose to get a sweet retro foil or whatever it'll cost peanuts. For me, I think Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver is the cut. It's been fine, but very much a casual power card. Which is fine, but what it does I have in other places anyway, for cheaper too - Headless Rider is kinda gross, and Undead Augur/Kindred Discovery/Midnight Reaper give me the draw I need.

Soultrader I don't know where I make the cut yet. It's arguable that, given it's a second Phyaltar, cutting the first is reasonable enough (I don't think that's the best idea tbh, redundancy is good). Otherwise I could even see just dropping your least used land. Otherwise, probably my weakest creature includes are Tidehollow Sculler, Withered Wretch and Relentless Dead. The latter of which seems weird to say, because it looks on paper pretty great, but often it's triggers are just too costly. I think it might well pair well with our new altar, though, so it's possible it might see more utility moving forward.

As far as ritual inclusions, I would very much run Culling the Weak and Cabal Ritual if I had them. I DO have Songs of the Damned, and it's stupid of me to not have it in here. I'll have to rectify that. Sacrifice for me is a hard no, we just run tiny creatures, we're not going to run positive on it. Sac is for Dargo, the Shipwrecker and pretty much no one else.

In other thoughts, and turning to fresh spoilers, what do you guys think of Strix Serenade? Seems very meta dependent, I'm not sure it makes the cut, but there's a few decks that will want it. I think for us the biggest things we want to counter are wipes and game winner spells. Otherwise, Flare of Denial and Flare of Malice. I'm not interested in the white one at all, black one barely. I think the blue is very, very good, and I think it's a shame that we don't run more blue creatures to be hard locked in on the blue Flare. It's possible it's worth it anyway, we generally want Varina on board as is.

[pokken]

This deck would play four or five copies of phyrexian altar if it could so I think the cut is probably something else :D

[toctheyounger]

This deck would play four or five copies of phyrexian altar if it could so I think the cut is probably something else :D

Yeah, good call I'm thinking probably Tidehollow currently, purely because it's use case is very limited, but we'll see - with DFC lands and allied fetches the landbase could see a shake up too.

[Arebennian]

Yeah, Grim Servant seems cracked here. Grim Tutor on a body is wildly good for us, and it's honestly wild that this card is an uncommon. I'll definitely be picking a copy up, and it's nice to know that when I do, if I choose to get a sweet retro foil or whatever it'll cost peanuts. For me, I think Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver is the cut. It's been fine, but very much a casual power card. Which is fine, but what it does I have in other places anyway, for cheaper too - Headless Rider is kinda gross, and Undead Augur/Kindred Discovery/Midnight Reaper give me the draw I need.

Is Headless Rider actually better? Is the 3mv vs 4mv that big of a deal? Wilhelt's zombies might be worse, but he triggers off any type of zombie.

[pzbw7z]

Grim Servant will not reliably get things such as Living Death or Zombie Apocalypse, so he's not replacing Sidisi, Undead Vizier for me, but he's still plenty good enough to replace something - probably Death Baron or Lord of the Undead. I do dislike raising the curve, but sometimes we just have to bite the bullet.

Silversmote Ghoul or even Master of Death are flex spots too, so we'll have to see.

Warren Soultrader is a lead-pipe cinch; it'll be perhaps the best 3-MV creature available to us.

I do think Cabal Ritual is the fourth best ritual, but Sacrifice isn't awful; I've got 12 3-MV plus creatures and that's probably good enough especially considering we like our creatures to die. But I have a copy of Cabal Ritual, and, while it's pretty lackluster without threshold, I'll probably try to work it in. Cuts are especially hard for non-creature spells.

[pzbw7z]

There's a cycle of MDFC lands at uncommon in Commander Horizons 3. None seem to be spectacular for us, but the three in our colors aren't awful. The U one is intriguing.

Rowan is beside herself with glee over the B and R versions.

They're in the MTG:Nexus spoilers, so I won't waste the bandwidth to paste them here.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, Grim Servant seems cracked here. Grim Tutor on a body is wildly good for us, and it's honestly wild that this card is an uncommon. I'll definitely be picking a copy up, and it's nice to know that when I do, if I choose to get a sweet retro foil or whatever it'll cost peanuts. For me, I think Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver is the cut. It's been fine, but very much a casual power card. Which is fine, but what it does I have in other places anyway, for cheaper too - Headless Rider is kinda gross, and Undead Augur/Kindred Discovery/Midnight Reaper give me the draw I need.

Is Headless Rider actually better? Is the 3mv vs 4mv that big of a deal? Wilhelt's zombies might be worse, but he triggers off any type of zombie.

Neither are superior really. Tbh the worst token producer we have is Stairwell, much as I love the card. Either could stay or go, it's just a matter of making space for a card superior to both. I just err on the side of a lower curve mostly.

[Zed117]

Wizards is scared to print a 1 mana zombie that is good aren't they. Come on, it's MH3, things should be more pushed.

[pokken]

I mean that one is still super playable. :D

[toctheyounger]

Yeah it's not terrible. Grave crawler has definitely scared them off, but it's better than a lot of historical one drop zombies.

[Zed117]

I mean that one is still super playable. :D

Oh I'm gonna play it. They at least could have given it the same "if an opponent controls 4 or more non basics" clause so it's like Razorlash.

If you have Ashnods and Phyrexian with Headless rider it does go infinite though.

[pzbw7z]

I've seen a two-drop Fleshbag Marauder-like creature spoiled. It's not clear if it's genuine. The downside is it's "non-token", if that can be called a downside.

Accursed Marauder 1B

When Acursed Maurader enters the battlefield, each player sacrifices a non-token creature.

Commander Horizons III is definitely shaking up the Zombie tribe. No I will not say "Kindred" and you can't make me.

[pzbw7z]

I've seen a two-drop Fleshbag Marauder-like creature spoiled. It's not clear if it's genuine. The downside is it's "non-token", if that can be called a downside.

Accursed Marauder 1B

When Acursed Maurader enters the battlefield, each player sacrifices a non-token creature.

Commander Horizons III is definitely shaking up the Zombie tribe. No I will not say "Kindred" and you can't make me.

Accursed Marauder is Common.

[toctheyounger]

I can't remember if this is a card we've ever presented for discussion here, there's been so many; what do you guys think of Pyre of Heroes? Slow tribal pod, I've been mulling it over purely because a lot of our key pieces, the aristocrats, draw creatures and such could absolutely be podded into with no major downside. I think it might help to smooth things out a little and rely a little less on Varina digging.

Has anyone tried it out before?

[pzbw7z]

I can't remember if this is a card we've ever presented for discussion here, there's been so many; what do you guys think of Pyre of Heroes? Slow tribal pod, I've been mulling it over purely because a lot of our key pieces, the aristocrats, draw creatures and such could absolutely be podded into with no major downside. I think it might help to smooth things out a little and rely a little less on Varina digging.

Has anyone tried it out before?

I have a copy and I have also thought about it, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet. This might be quite good with Zombie-Altar-Boy about to debut.

[toctheyounger]

I can't remember if this is a card we've ever presented for discussion here, there's been so many; what do you guys think of Pyre of Heroes? Slow tribal pod, I've been mulling it over purely because a lot of our key pieces, the aristocrats, draw creatures and such could absolutely be podded into with no major downside. I think it might help to smooth things out a little and rely a little less on Varina digging.

Has anyone tried it out before?

I have a copy and I have also thought about it, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet. This might be quite good with Zombie-Altar-Boy about to debut.

Yeah I think so too. We don't mind about the sac, the cost is kind of right at 2 then 1 for each activation, usually I could only really see us wanting it once or twice to get the line together kind of thing. Might be worth it to just put together a line more easily. But honestly, goldfishing I've been struggling a little for draw, so I'm wondering if it's almost just a nice goodstuff add to get draw trigger bodies into play. With that as the minimum it does, I can kind of see it being worth the slot.

I'm gonna wait till after MH3 drops to make any major updates, it's been a while since I updated my list here, so I'll get the new stuff then update here either way. It'll be big and convoluted.

[pzbw7z]

The ability to combo with only creatures almost makes me think Mausoleum Secrets might now be playable. Warren Soultrader is only three, so it's not much of a stretch to fetch it with Secrets.

At $0.88, it's probably worth a try.

[pokken]

The ability to combo with only creatures almost makes me think Mausoleum Secrets might now be playable. Warren Soultrader is only three, so it's not much of a stretch to fetch it with Secrets.

At $0.88, it's probably worth a try.

Instant speed get gravecrawler is a pretty good failure mode too really. Good idea.

[plaganegra]

I can't remember if this is a card we've ever presented for discussion here, there's been so many; what do you guys think of Pyre of Heroes? Slow tribal pod, I've been mulling it over purely because a lot of our key pieces, the aristocrats, draw creatures and such could absolutely be podded into with no major downside. I think it might help to smooth things out a little and rely a little less on Varina digging.

Has anyone tried it out before?

I have a copy and I have also thought about it, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet. This might be quite good with Zombie-Altar-Boy about to debut.

I think it is a very playable option, especially if you have a few pre-determined targets you are hoping to get or a toolbox suite. I used it a long time ago, but cut it because I never wanted to pay the 4 mana to get the effect.

[pokken]

I try to never play repeated tutors just not my jam. Re pyre

[plaganegra]

I just made a pretty big update to my list which I haven't done in a while. Lots of significant changes with this set I think for most of us.

My list is on moxfield
Changes:

• -1 Relentless Dead +1 Selhoff Entomber
• -1 Lazotep Chancellor +1 Dreadmalkin
• -1 Reanimate +1 Dread Return
• -1 Tombstone Stairwell +1 Chthonian Nightmare
• -1 Tormod the Desecrator +1 Grim Servant
• -1 Diregraf Colossus +1 Warren Soultrader
• -1 Generous Gift +1 Swords to Plowshares
• -1 Noxious Ghoul +1 Arcane Denial
• -1 swamp +1 Spymaster's Vault
• -1 Vault of Champions +1 Undercity Sewers

Still considering Ripples of Undeath, but some of you have convinced me the extra mana is probably not worth it. I might stick it in just to try it out because sometimes in practice things click better than they do on paper, and vise-versa. If I were to remove something for it that would probably be Village Rites. I don't think I will add it though. Ultimately it mainly does what Varina does, which I don't need.

Overall I wanted to lower my curve even further than it already was with cheap zombies. I find an aggressive curve is the way I like to play the deck. I prefer to get Varina churning as quickly as possible to start digging for value and combos. I like that Dreadmalkin has menace for the early turns, and the threat of pumping it makes combat interesting. I rarely use the effect on Lazotep Chancellor so I gave it the axe.

I was reviewing my maybeboard of zombies and I realized I never tested Selhoff Entomber. I have so many creatures in my deck I would rather have in my GY that I think it is worth a try. I like the mana cost within my curve and I think there is a lot of potential in this swap with Relentless Dead - another mana intensive chromic under-performer. I think I have used the effect once in a couple years now.

I have found in practice I have not really needed to cast Generous Gift, and quite frequently I pitch it. So I swapped it for Swords to Plowshares as a cheaper removal option to use with snapcaster mage. I am unsure about this swap though because now my only swiss army knife is Chain of Vapor, but honestly, Chain has been an MVP and I will never take it out. It solves so many problems.

Dread Return has been in and out of my deck for a long time. I am confident this is correct over Reanimate in my build of the deck because I pitch so many things to the GY and I am more focused on combo wins. I am considering putting Balthor, the Defiled back in as well because he works very well with Dread Return.

Diregraf Colossus has become outclassed and redundant. I would rather have another Phyrexian Altar than another Headless Rider.

Tormod, the Desecrator has been one of my favorite value engines to play in this deck. He works so well with how my deck functions, I am not happy about giving him the axe at all. Again though, I think he is redundant with headless rider which I view as the best version of this go wide effect. Grim Servant gets answers or combo pieces and will probably never be outclassed. I like that it is re-usable with renamiate effects. Those who took Apprentice Necromancer out of their decks should probably put it back in.

Chthonian Nightmare is my favorite card in the new set. I cannot wait to use it. Sad because Tombstone stairwell was previously my favorite way to win a game with this deck. It's the most hilarious zombie enchantment, it's incredibly powerful and unique, and catches the table off guard.

A couple months ago I put Noxious Ghoul back in my deck and it has underperformed. I stand by my assertion that it is totally unnecessary in this deck if you are playing a faster low curve build. It costs too much, requires too many hoops, and if you are getting it mainly from a mass-reanmiate you should be winning with something else anyway. I know a lot of people in this thread a while ago were playing Arcane Denial and I never really understood why. Recently I saw a video by the professor that explained the merits of it and the way he explained it totally convinced me. Excited to add another low cost counterspell to the deck that cantrips.

I am open to any feedback on my list or these changes. Excited to see how others are building their decks as well with all of these awesome new cards!

[plaganegra]

The ability to combo with only creatures almost makes me think Mausoleum Secrets might now be playable. Warren Soultrader is only three, so it's not much of a stretch to fetch it with Secrets.

At $0.88, it's probably worth a try.

Instant speed get gravecrawler is a pretty good failure mode too really. Good idea.

I like it as well. I try to keep my tutor count down which is why I don'y play this or any of the generically good tutors outside of the GY tutors in my deck.

The shop I just started playing at has a lot of higher powered decks and they are pretty good at matchmaking so I have had the thought of going all in on a max power build just to see how far I can push the deck. If I was going to do it I would definitely add Mausoleum Secrets, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, and possibly Imperial Seal as well as a couple rituals and some more fast manas.

I just really love playing my deck the way it has been running. Mausoleum Secrets I think is a great spot to be no matter where you are on the power scale because it has a condition. To me any conditional tutor is fair game at most tables. Especially since you cannot go get cyclonic rift with it lol.

[pokken]

Yeah I am a total moe for Arcane Denial. I consider it an early game cantrip :D I'll burn it to help make land drops if I need to and it can gain so much tempo early on and then defend combos at the end.

I refuse to run any of the noncreature countermagic (except fg which is freeeee) because so many game ending bombs are creatures. Swan Song is dead as hell against Craterhoof Behemoth

Edit: re Selhoff Entomber i feel like almost any 2 drop would be preferable here. This card is not good. Otherwise changes loook good

[plaganegra]

Yeah I am a total moe for Arcane Denial. I consider it an early game cantrip :D I'll burn it to help make land drops if I need to and it can gain so much tempo early on and then defend combos at the end.

I refuse to run any of the noncreature countermagic (except fg which is freeeee) because so many game ending bombs are creatures. Swan Song is dead as hell against Craterhoof Behemoth

Edit: re Selhoff Entomber i feel like almost any 2 drop would be preferable here. This card is not good. Otherwise changes loook good

Thanks for checking it out! I like Swan Song for protecting my winning turn or protect varina. If you were to swap it out for another counterspell here which would you choose? Just curious, or maybe even a couple options you would prefer over swan song.

The interesting thing I have found about the slot Selhoff Entomber is in is I am not happy with any of my options here. It would need to be a 1-2 drop zombie with some upside. Vanilla or low-utility 1-drop creatures don't appeal to me here, and most of the other 2 drops don't either. I think I have tried them all at this point. What I like about Selhoff is that it can easily dig me for my 4th land on T3 or T4. Not many zombies can do that. What is better? This is also why I love Nightscape Familiar (it "counts" as land 4).

Other options in this slot below. Italicized I have tried and wasnt happy with, bold were strong considerations here.

• Nested Shambler
• Zombie Cannibal
• Butcher Ghoul
• Lazotep Chancellor
• Lazotep Reaver
• Putrid Goblin
• Relentless Dead
• Shepherd of Rot
• Tainted Adversary
• Tidehollow Sculler
• Withered Wretch

I have a feeling your favorite is probably lazotep reaver. It's probably the most efficient zombie at 2cmc which I recognize, but it doesn't help me cast Varina on curve which is my main goal. After Varina hits I have no problem churning through my deck generally because of how quickly I can get my free creatures online alongside my hoard of 1-drops. The bold options all do different things, but I dont think I need any of them. Withered Wretch is the best utlilty of the bunch. Did I miss any?