Fall set Name revealed at SDCC

[Ulthwithian]

My only question is... why in the world is MaRo so excited for this? He's specifically said that three sets this year he's really excited about, and that he expects us to be equally excited about them. Those three sets are War of the Spark, Modern Horizons, and Eldraine. What does Eldraine have in it that would put it at the same level as the other two?

[Max Rebo]

I just hope this isnt a backdoor Lorwyn attempt (see fixed?) and so we never end up going back there. Wotc and Maro dont think we can handle a humanless plane or a non-humanoid walker.

[Necrofish]

I just hope this isnt a backdoor Lorwyn attempt (see fixed?) and so we never end up going back there. Wotc and Maro dont think we can handle a humanless plane or a non-humanoid walker.

When I get a Faerie-Walker I can die happy.

Also I don't really see the problem with less or no humans.

[enrai]

While I love Lorwyn, I've come to the conclusion that I wouldn't want Wizards to actually return there since whatever 'adjustments' they would make to the plane to make it able to sell more would probably only take away from its charm.

So this is perfect. Faeries are one of my favourite tribes, so that aspect alone has me stoked. Looking forward to more info tomorrow.

About the thing Maro is excited for - it has to be some mechanical/set design thing. I can't imagine him caring too much about flavor. Maybe it has something to do with the "courts" in the title. A new way to divide factions or something?

[DrSeaMonster]

Calling it now. Wedge set. BGU Faeries.

[Necrofish]

About the thing Maro is excited for - it has to be some mechanical/set design thing. I can't imagine him caring too much about flavor. Maybe it has something to do with the "courts" in the title. A new way to divide factions or something?

A new way to mess with the graveyard in modern.

Apart from that, maybe grouping some more card types together like.. historical spells was it?

[RedCheese]

ohhh yes i'm hyped for Fairty Tales or Arthurian legends. Gotta respect one of the classic fantasies.

[Krishnath]

I just hope this isnt a backdoor Lorwyn attempt (see fixed?) and so we never end up going back there. Wotc and Maro dont think we can handle a humanless plane or a non-humanoid walker.

It's probably not going to be a backdoor Lorwyn, considering that Maro has confirmed that it is a new plane.

As for Lorwyn itself, it had some problems, but the lack of humans wasn't it. The primary problems with Lorwyn (a set I very much enjoyed) was that one tribe was so over powered compared to the others that it warped standard to such an extent that 80% of the decks played said tribe. It didn't help that some of the mechanics were quite a bit less than stellar (such as Clash, *cough*), and the Kithkin were so far into the uncanny valley that a lot of people were turned off the set. The lack of intertribal connectivity in draft also caused some issues, basically if you didn't draft one of the good tribes or got shafted with the one you picked, then you would simply lose without having a ghost of a chance. There were basically four tribes that were worth drafting: Faeries, Merfolk, Goblins, and Elves, draft anything else, and you'd end up losing. The powerlevels were all over the place.
Still it did have good points, other than the vivid lands, the lands were good, and the good mechanics (such as Changeling and Evoke) were excellent. The counter subtheme was also well executed.

[Hawk]

I just hope this isnt a backdoor Lorwyn attempt (see fixed?) and so we never end up going back there. Wotc and Maro dont think we can handle a humanless plane or a non-humanoid walker.

It's probably not going to be a backdoor Lorwyn, considering that Maro has confirmed that it is a new plane.

As for Lorwyn itself, it had some problems, but the lack of humans wasn't it. The primary problems with Lorwyn (a set I very much enjoyed) was that one tribe was so over powered compared to the others that it warped standard to such an extent that 80% of the decks played said tribe. It didn't help that some of the mechanics were quite a bit less than stellar (such as Clash, *cough*), and the Kithkin were so far into the uncanny valley that a lot of people were turned off the set. The lack of intertribal connectivity in draft also caused some issues, basically if you didn't draft one of the good tribes or got shafted with the one you picked, then you would simply lose without having a ghost of a chance. There were basically four tribes that were worth drafting: Faeries, Merfolk, Goblins, and Elves, draft anything else, and you'd end up losing. The powerlevels were all over the place.
Still it did have good points, other than the vivid lands, the lands were good, and the good mechanics (such as Changeling and Evoke) were excellent. The counter subtheme was also well executed.

MaRo has said that part of that was a problem, but "standard unpopularity" isn't the dealbreaker we think - after all we returned to Mirrodin which also had a wild, swingy powerlevel and miserable unfun standard format with the most Standard bannings in MTG history, and Kaladesh has a reasonable shot at a return despite the same problem.

Flavor was a big problem - MaRo has said Kithkin uncanny valley was bad, and that "no humans" was for sure bad - we on the internet may be fine but the average player likes humans in their set. It's also a bit of a flavor/story/top-down disconnect - part of the charm of fairy tales is seeing average humans learn from, outwit, slay, or get poetic ironic comeuppance from mystical forces like Fairys and Witches and Dragons and Demons, and a world without Humans can't deliver on that very well.

It also had the problem that limited was absolutely paralyzing for less-experienced players, especially with the second sets in the mix. It felt nigh-impossible to draft cohesive decks, it required committing to a tribe and praying it was open because being in the wrong tribe was death, and once you were playing the format was an intrinsic, mind-busting puzzle of math every single turn (how many fairys and merfolk do I control for Silvergill Douser? Did I miss any changelings in that accounting? Is that enough to save me if my opponent controls Mad Auntie for their 3/3 goblin and might also have a Blades of Velis Vel to let it get pumped by Incandescent Soulstoke too?)

All that being said, they've also learned that Lorwyn has a much, much stronger fanbase than other sets that get flack (Kamigawa, Mercadia), so I strongly doubt this is "Lorwyn rebooted" and don't think it totally kills us seeing Lorwyn again.

[Krishnath]

I just hope this isnt a backdoor Lorwyn attempt (see fixed?) and so we never end up going back there. Wotc and Maro dont think we can handle a humanless plane or a non-humanoid walker.

It's probably not going to be a backdoor Lorwyn, considering that Maro has confirmed that it is a new plane.

As for Lorwyn itself, it had some problems, but the lack of humans wasn't it. The primary problems with Lorwyn (a set I very much enjoyed) was that one tribe was so over powered compared to the others that it warped standard to such an extent that 80% of the decks played said tribe. It didn't help that some of the mechanics were quite a bit less than stellar (such as Clash, *cough*), and the Kithkin were so far into the uncanny valley that a lot of people were turned off the set. The lack of intertribal connectivity in draft also caused some issues, basically if you didn't draft one of the good tribes or got shafted with the one you picked, then you would simply lose without having a ghost of a chance. There were basically four tribes that were worth drafting: Faeries, Merfolk, Goblins, and Elves, draft anything else, and you'd end up losing. The powerlevels were all over the place.
Still it did have good points, other than the vivid lands, the lands were good, and the good mechanics (such as Changeling and Evoke) were excellent. The counter subtheme was also well executed.

MaRo has said that part of that was a problem, but "standard unpopularity" isn't the dealbreaker we think - after all we returned to Mirrodin which also had a wild, swingy powerlevel and miserable unfun standard format with the most Standard bannings in MTG history, and Kaladesh has a reasonable shot at a return despite the same problem.

Flavor was a big problem - MaRo has said Kithkin uncanny valley was bad, and that "no humans" was for sure bad - we on the internet may be fine but the average player likes humans in their set. It's also a bit of a flavor/story/top-down disconnect - part of the charm of fairy tales is seeing average humans learn from, outwit, slay, or get poetic ironic comeuppance from mystical forces like Fairys and Witches and Dragons and Demons, and a world without Humans can't deliver on that very well.

It also had the problem that limited was absolutely paralyzing for less-experienced players, especially with the second sets in the mix. It felt nigh-impossible to draft cohesive decks, it required committing to a tribe and praying it was open because being in the wrong tribe was death, and once you were playing the format was an intrinsic, mind-busting puzzle of math every single turn (how many fairys and merfolk do I control for Silvergill Douser? Did I miss any changelings in that accounting? Is that enough to save me if my opponent controls Mad Auntie for their 3/3 goblin and might also have a Blades of Velis Vel to let it get pumped by Incandescent Soulstoke too?)

All that being said, they've also learned that Lorwyn has a much, much stronger fanbase than other sets that get flack (Kamigawa, Mercadia), so I strongly doubt this is "Lorwyn rebooted" and don't think it totally kills us seeing Lorwyn again.

I agree completely. Both Kamigawa and Lorwyn eights on the "Rabiah Scale", which makes them possible but unlikely. Mercadia is a nine because let's face it, it was bad (and should feel bad). We are more likely to get a visit to those planes in a supplementary product rather than a standard legal one. That is not necessarily a bad thing, as we've gotten several references to Kamigawa in the commander (and planechase) sets, and Modern Horizons had a reference to Segovia of all places. I think a return to Kamigawa is going to happen eventually, particularly since our one named planeswalker from the plane has started to become fairly popular (Tamiyo is awesome). But if we return to there, it will without a doubt be a more modern take on the plane, with less parasitic mechanics and tribes. As for Lorwyn, it still leaves a bitter taste in many older players mouths, because it brings back memories of the Kithkin and the overpowered Faeries. But I think we will see it sprinkled in here and there, particularly in core sets. Part of Nissa's story from Origin's was set on the plane after all, and I have zero doubt that it will show up in Commander from time to time (without counting the vivid lands getting reprinted over and over).

As for Eldraine, getting back on topic, it is not going to be a do-over of Lorwyn, it will have similarities, but there is a vast difference between being based in Celtic myth and being based in what appears to be Medieval British myth and central European faerie tales. The faeries seem to indicate some inspiration from the great Bard's fantasy contributions (The Tempest and A Midsummer Night's Dream), the art very much reminds me of that era.

[Hawk]

If this is the Fairy Tale World with Faeries... it's a win. I hope it will have strong Celtic/European influences in the setting as Lorwyn did. Essentially more focus on human interactions with the fantasy elements, as opposed to being as foreign as Lorwyn sometimes could by lacking the human element. I have a feeling we may get our Faerie planeswalker here. The story may be self-contained as well, which I welcome. Adding humans and more high fantasy elements to Lorwyn to achieve this makes a lot of sense. It's what gives us a good foundation for delivering Fairy Tale tropes without fundamentally changing Lorwyn.

I do think they should avoid taking this approach with a Japan World plane, and actually re-structure Kamigawa instead. It makes sense to pass on Lorwyn in favor of a more appropriate setting, due to lack of humans. But Kamigawa is Japan World, and is expected to be different now.

Fae, Knights, Kings, Queens, Romance, and drama. Eldraine, here we come! :D

Important clarification from MaRo:

theycallmejokke asked: Maro why is my twitter feed exploding with talk about faries???

Because the card/invitation we made announcing the October set has a picture of Faeries on it. Since that was the only hint about the world beside the name, the assumption was made the Faeries must matter a lot to the world. They're there. There are Faeries in the set, but nowhere at the volume or importance that people seem to be assuming. That's why all the Faerie talk. I promise on Saturday at the Magic panel, I will make it clear what Throne of Eldraine is about.

[motleyslayer]

It seems like i could be a high fantasy set mixed with almost like a Conspiracy type political theme. I liked a lot of the Conspiracy themes

[Jace]

If this is the Fairy Tale World with Faeries... it's a win. I hope it will have strong Celtic/European influences in the setting as Lorwyn did. Essentially more focus on human interactions with the fantasy elements, as opposed to being as foreign as Lorwyn sometimes could by lacking the human element. I have a feeling we may get our Faerie planeswalker here. The story may be self-contained as well, which I welcome. Adding humans and more high fantasy elements to Lorwyn to achieve this makes a lot of sense. It's what gives us a good foundation for delivering Fairy Tale tropes without fundamentally changing Lorwyn.

I do think they should avoid taking this approach with a Japan World plane, and actually re-structure Kamigawa instead. It makes sense to pass on Lorwyn in favor of a more appropriate setting, due to lack of humans. But Kamigawa is Japan World, and is expected to be different now.

Fae, Knights, Kings, Queens, Romance, and drama. Eldraine, here we come! :D

Important clarification from MaRo:

theycallmejokke asked: Maro why is my twitter feed exploding with talk about faries???

Because the card/invitation we made announcing the October set has a picture of Faeries on it. Since that was the only hint about the world beside the name, the assumption was made the Faeries must matter a lot to the world. They're there. There are Faeries in the set, but nowhere at the volume or importance that people seem to be assuming. That's why all the Faerie talk. I promise on Saturday at the Magic panel, I will make it clear what Throne of Eldraine is about.

Yes, I did read that and it makes sense - I imagine the theme of the plane is Fairy Tale and/or Arthurian tropes, an aspect of which is Fae. I don't anticipate a heavy tribal element, so Faeries will appear, probably in respectable numbers, but not Lorwyn levels. Instead, the set will be more about delivering various flavor points, such as Knights, Witches, Wizards, royalty, Dragons etc. I do expect a Legendary Faerie, possibly a Faerie Planeswalker. And lets not forget the Fairy Godmother trope.

I bet the invitation to the court is from the King trying to wed his son Cinderella style. I wonder if we'll see a Little Mermaid, the Sea Witch, some fancy princes and royalty, legendary dragons, Knights, sorcerers, and a Mirror, Mirror on the wall.

[vandertroll]

High fantasy / fairy tale world is one of my favorite themes. I hope they reprint Bitterblossom as well!

[Krishnath]

It seems like i could be a high fantasy set mixed with almost like a Conspiracy type political theme. I liked a lot of the Conspiracy themes

As Maro dislikes politics in the game, I don't think we will see conspiracy like themes in the set. Maybe Monarch at the most.

[CalebLost]

High fantasy / fairy tale world is one of my favorite themes. I hope they reprint Bitterblossom as well!

Considering that Tribal is a discontinued mechanic a reprint is nearly impossible.
A functional reprint may be possible, but its powerlevel may be a bit too high for standard.

[DrSeaMonster]

High fantasy / fairy tale world is one of my favorite themes. I hope they reprint Bitterblossom as well!

Considering that Tribal is a discontinued mechanic a reprint is nearly impossible.
A functional reprint may be possible, but its powerlevel may be a bit too high for standard.

I can't see them doing either with Dreadhorde Invasion in standard.

[folding_music]

As Maro dislikes politics in the game,

I always find this discouraging! As interested as I am to see how the new set pans out, I think of Rosewater as being one of the major millstones hanging around Magic's neck making sure it never truly expresses anything.

[Krishnath]

As Maro dislikes politics in the game,

I always find this discouraging! As interested as I am to see how the new set pans out, I think of Rosewater as being one of the major millstones hanging around Magic's neck making sure it never truly expresses anything.

Him disliking politics just means that he doesn't like to play sets and formats that have a heavy political element. Thus, he does not enjoy playing Conspiracy or Commander. That does not mean that he is incapable of designing political cards. But since he is very excited for this set, it is unlikely to have a political element. Not that a political element makes a lick of sense for a standard legal set anyway since they are by definition designed for two players dueling rather than multiplayer.

[RxPhantom]

Based only on this scant tease, I am not pumped. Having said that, I've never truly hated a setting, so this may just be a setting that isn't for me. I have no reservation about the cards themselves though.

[The N82O Molecule]

this does not excite me

that being said if this set has cards that enhance old strategies (faeries im looking at you) then crap im slightly interested
(I bought into the third return to ravnica because if you have the first two "blocks" why not the third. . .)

I support RxPhantom's comment above

side note back in lorwyn my fav tribe was treefolk. . .and its sad to say. . .and im going to go out on a limb here. . .treefolk are not going to be supported here.

[Jace]

High fantasy / fairy tale world is one of my favorite themes. I hope they reprint Bitterblossom as well!

Yes. Yeeeeeessssss.

I love the Faeries in the artwork as well. Instead of looking insectoid, they look more traditional. And it's adorable the tiny items they're carrying. I really hope this set has a respectable number of Fae. I can just imagine this being an enchanting dreamscape world, a romantic version of Lorwyn. I hope we get little winter/ice Faeries too that remind me of Waltz of the Flowers from Fantasia.

White - Humans, royalty, Knights, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast (omg a Beast DFC from the curse being lifted)
Blue - The Little Mermaid, Faeries
Black - Evil Stepmother, the Sea Witch (UB), Witches, Maleficent, Demons, Bats, etc.
Red - Dragons, love stories, romance, passion (instead of other boring red emotions like anger)
Green - The poisoned apple, Snow White and the 7 Dwarves, Princess that can speak to animals, Bambi, etc.
Artifacts - Mirror on the Wall, knight sword that slays dragons, MTG version of the glass slipper, the sea witch sea shell, Ariel's voice

I could even see this set being a heavy Enchantment focus, and mono-color focus, being a perfect set-up for a return to Theros. What's more enchanting than Fairy Tales? Obviously the above tropes will be more true to the source material than Disney, and adapted similar to how Theros did its own take on Greek Myth.

[ilovesaprolings]

Based only on this scant tease, I am not pumped.

this does not excite me

Honestly i'm feeling the same. This announcement brought me nothing.
From all the secrecy and whatever i expected the set's name to be a hug giveaway, like Rise of the Eldrazi or Avacyn.
Instead we got... this?
There is a place called Eldraine and there is a throne on it. Wow.
Also there are some fairies, but apparently it was important to say almost immediatly that they aren't so important.
Hey wizards you know what's better than nothing? Something!

Let's hope tomorrow they will reveal the juicy stuff. The time we have to wait is really small, luckily

[RxPhantom]

Side note, folks: Eldraine is Spanish for "the drain." Plumbing world confirmed!

[CubJay]

Side note, folks: Eldraine is Spanish for "the drain." Plumbing world confirmed!

If you look really closely those fairies are actually wearing scuba suits. Now I know why: they're plumbers too