MTGNexus

Let's try this one more time.

What *IS* the community build-a-deck? Inspired by a subject on the MTG Nexus commander forums, ths project takes a randomly determined legend (and partner, or background, if the random button falls on an applicable legend) where we work together on the deckbuild process. For the sake of historical reference, each finished deck will be archived here on my Moxfield. Then There are some rules involved, though;

- I will start the deck with a randomly determined legendary creature or legendary planeswalker that can be a commander. In the event of pulling a partner, I will randomly determine what it's paired with from all the available partners pool. I may reroll the random commander in some cases, because no one wants to see a full build for such all-stars as Tobias Andrion or Lord Magnus, of course.
- Two randomly determined users from a list of those active in the game will be chosen each day/two days if discussion is strong on previous cards, and they will nominate a card for the day's discussion. Three yays/nays is enough to confirm or reject a card.[/b]
- This aim is about communication and cohesion, if you don't agree with a direction or card choices, SPEAK UP, and let's talk it over. Preferably with more than a one sentence quip. If we can't communicate effectively, this project will fail every time. I'm fascinated by the progress we've made as our own little AI machine brains have more and more begun to recognize how each other is thinking and how we can compliment what each other is doing...or not doing. Looking back on the earlier iterations to present is such a fun process!
- Let's aim for a "higher than mid, lower than high" power level. I'm all for expression, but decks should be functioning on it's own power in random pickup games. Card suggestions should be more intricate than chair tribal, but not as parasitic as ThOracle-Consult either.
- Let's talk tutours! Since they're such a polarizing card type, let's limit the mana value of them to 3mv, or 2mv in the event of them being specialized (a la rampant growth|mir or eladamri's call|pls).
- How cool would it be if some number of us actually took these decks and brought them into their paper world? Let's try to leave the Reserve List stuff out, as well as keep the spell selections to ~$35. Occasionally you will see price "spike" cards break this for really synergistic interactions (such as Inkmoth Nexus in the first deck with Livaan, Cultist of Tiamat, or Yawgmoth, Thran Physician in Lulu, Loyal Hollyphant). These price numbers are not set in stone however, just a general guideline to stick close to.
- Each finished deck will go on to my Moxfield to live forever as "@mtgnexus Community Deck Project {deck number}" for reference point. - I reserve the right to amend these guidelines as we go, should questions arise.

Without further ado, the commander randomly determined for v5.0b;

I like commanders like this because in my mind they are relatively easy to build around, and I've always thought about spider tribal so this should be fun. The way I would approach this is focusing on self-mill, easy to sacrifice permanents, and something to do with the tokens. Either doubling them or anthem effects, or both. Basically go wide token strategy. And something that could flicker Ishkanah since it is an ETB trigger.

Ok *cracks knuckles* let's do it. I agree with @Avacyn Believer. I wish there was more flickering going on in Golgari. Maybe we can also include a reanimator package so we can avoid commander tax and get more mileage out of the ETB trigger? Other delirium/graveyard payoffs?

Ohmygosh we're back?! I just want to do something with Aetherworks Marvel because I'm extra clever, yep.

What a cool commander that's not Meren of the frog, or some partner combination.

I'll chime in for this one again. There's no fixed list for Ishkanah, and she has a good solid win condition attached.

As for actual strategy, I could see like a midrange value engine with efficient draw and interaction like Deadly Dispute, Assassin's Trophy and such, and maybe some swamp doublers to really make that activated ability count as a genuine finisher.

I don't know if there's an efficient token generator other than Doubling Season or Parallel Lives, but there's changeling and Maskwood Nexus. I don't know that I'd go much further than that into tribal, because spiders are generally pretty meh.

RxPhantom wrote: ↑

1 year ago

I wish there was more flickering going on in Golgari. Maybe we can also include a reanimator package so we can avoid commander tax and get more mileage out of the ETB trigger? Other delirium/graveyard payoffs?

Only one I can think of to flicker is Conjurer's Closet, but with black there are those spells that returns a creature to the battlefield if it dies. Not as good as flickering ability on a permanent, but with some graveyard recursion you could bring those spells back to be used again. Panharmonicon could be a good option for extra ETB value.

aliciaofthevast wrote: ↑

1 year ago

Ohmygosh we're back?! I just want to do something with Aetherworks Marvel because I'm extra clever, yep.

Any decent way to get extra triggers off the Marvel? Otherwise I think we'll end up relying on tokens and a sac outlet?

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

1 year ago

As for actual strategy, I could see like a midrange value engine with efficient draw and interaction like Deadly Dispute, Assassin's Trophy and such, and maybe some swamp doublers to really make that activated ability count as a genuine finisher.

I don't know if there's an efficient token generator other than Doubling Season or Parallel Lives, but there's changeling and Maskwood Nexus. I don't know that I'd go much further than that into tribal, because spiders are generally pretty meh.

Swamp doubling for sure, there are few options now to fit into the budget. Arasta of the Endless Web could work well here, plus all the other cards that make Spider tokens, if we gonna move away from Spider creatures, I agree not many of them are worth it.

I also agree with efficient draw. Interaction is lowest on the priority for me personally, I focus on ramp and draw first, then the deck synergy, and interaction last.

I like it
What's funny is that Ishkanah fit pretty well into a midrange deck in standard and I think it works the same way as a general.
You want some control elements
CA
a lot of interaction
You win the game because you can outlast everyone and a win con in the command zone.

I personally am against Panharmonicon and conjuror's closet in this deck. It pushes the deck to including more creatures and this is not a karador creature control deck. I don't really want cards that only work when we cast the general. Maybe those two artifacts can make it in if we see we have a lot of ETBs at some point, but the way I see the deck I think we will have very few etbs. time will tell.

I want to see more Grave Pact, sacrifice effects, recursion loops. I would rather cast Ishkanah 3 times in a turn than flicker once with closet. I like this route because it sets up delirium pretty well.

Token doubling may also be okay or bad, depending on where we end up.
My fear is that we slam Parralel lives and Panharmonicon into the deck and then we start looking for things like Twin-Silk Spider, which is a terrible card.
But looking at some spider token making cards, I think there may be enough good ones to justify the token doublers.

A question for everyone to think about - I am sure we can make a few infinite combos in here, and I assume they will be in there because of the power level we are looking for.
Tutors will help those combos happen.
But then with tutors and infinite combos, there is little reason to play flavourful cards like previously mentioned Arasta of the Endless Web. The strategy would be to turn on delirium, tutor the combo pieces and win as quick as possible. We would probably also only focus on one combo with maybe a backup for redundancy purposes.

Is that what we want?

I don't mind making that deck, but personally I hate playing it. If it were me there would be about 4 combos and very few tutors. Probably only creature tutors.

Avacyn Believer wrote: ↑

1 year ago

aliciaofthevast wrote: ↑

1 year ago

Ohmygosh we're back?! I just want to do something with Aetherworks Marvel because I'm extra clever, yep.

Any decent way to get extra triggers off the Marvel? Otherwise I think we'll end up relying on tokens and a sac outlet?

Just a general sacrifice reward I think. Doesn't need a lot of support, though Demon of Dark Schemes would provide added synergy. Like it's role when it was in standard.

aliciaofthevast wrote: ↑

1 year ago

Avacyn Believer wrote: ↑

1 year ago

aliciaofthevast wrote: ↑

1 year ago

Ohmygosh we're back?! I just want to do something with Aetherworks Marvel because I'm extra clever, yep.

Any decent way to get extra triggers off the Marvel? Otherwise I think we'll end up relying on tokens and a sac outlet?

Just a general sacrifice reward I think. Doesn't need a lot of support, though Demon of Dark Schemes would provide added synergy. Like it's role when it was in standard.

When Marvel was in standard, it got banned for spewing out Emrakul, the Promised End with alarming consistency. That being said, all the more reason to give Marvel a go if we end up in Aristocrats territory.

Ooh, it's back! And we've got Ishkanah! Personally, I would build this as spider tribal -- in fact, spider tribal is the thing I wanted to build first, then Ishkanah came along. But we don't have to do that. Even if we don't, though, there are a handful of good spider cards that are already pretty good and also have bonus synergy, like Spider Spawning and Arachnogenesis.

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

1 year ago

I want to see more Grave Pact, sacrifice effects, recursion loops. I would rather cast Ishkanah 3 times in a turn than flicker once with closet. I like this route because it sets up delirium pretty well.

That sounds like a batter idea, I am not very familiar with recursion and recast loops, so the Closet was just first thing that came to mind.

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

1 year ago

I don't mind making that deck, but personally I hate playing it. If it were me there would be about 4 combos and very few tutors. Probably only creature tutors.

I agree with this approach. Tutoring for combos is just so linear in my opinion, I'd rather draw into it, give the deck more options to explore before we get to the combos.

TheAmericanSpirit wrote: ↑

1 year ago

When Marvel was in standard, it got banned for spewing out Emrakul, the Promised End with alarming consistency. That being said, all the more reason to give Marvel a go if we end up in Aristocrats territory.

I remember that Standard, Ulomog was a bigger problem in my local meta. So for old times sake, I'll vote yes on Marvel when we start voting

Jemolk wrote: ↑

1 year ago

Even if we don't, though, there are a handful of good spider cards that are already pretty good and also have bonus synergy, like Spider Spawning and Arachnogenesis.

This approach I'd like too. No need to force in bad spider cards, but I'd look for spider creatures and spider producing cards where possible just to add theme.

Yeah, I don't think tribal is a viable route to pursue here, because the tribe doesn't have the support to be worthwhile, especially in today's age of commander. The commander is clearly good though, as you'd expect from a classic midrange threat that brings four bodies (three + itself) when it resolves. Like a legendary Myr Battlesphere tbh. I foresee feeding them to Sadistic Hypnotist and using Jar of Eyeballs as a proc or even just feeding a massive Reprocess. Chock full of value.

I'm just gonna go with the masses on this one. I do think we should fit it good spiders when we can, but that's all I got. My brain may be able to adjust after we really establish the deck's focus.

RxPhantom wrote: ↑

1 year ago

I'm just gonna go with the masses on this one. I do think we should fit it good spiders when we can, but that's all I got. My brain may be able to adjust after we really establish the deck's focus.

Good spiders like what? Hatchery Spider ?
I imagine something like Nyx Weaver could be in it. Arachnogenesis and Spider Spawning. Not sure Skyfisher Spider is better than Maelstrom Pulse.

Can I propose we take a vote on something?

A) Efficient midrange deck that tries hard to combo out with tutors
B) Efficient Midrange deck that has combos but few/no tutors
C) Synergistic deck that has combos but few/no tutors (this would play spiders that are fine but clearly worse than other staples, giving us a bit more synergy while losing a bit of power/efficiency)
D) Thematic deck that may or may not need tutors to win (this would go hard on spiders and probably need some top tutors to have a chance of getting the deck to go off)


@3drinks why is the cap 35$ per card? I find it to be a very arbitrary number. I think most of us would spend that kind of money. Can I suggest a cap of 50$ or 100$? Especially if we want to up the power level... And if people don't want to buy cards over a certain amount (which could be any amount they decide) we can help them find budget friendly alternatives?

To kick off the season, let's put @Avacyn Believer and @aliciaofthevast on the clock. You have 24 hours to make your pick to allow for everyone to discuss ad yay/nay.

dunharrow wrote:why is the cap 35$ per card? I find it to be a very arbitrary number. I think most of us would spend that kind of money. Can I suggest a cap of 50$ or 100$? Especially if we want to up the power level... And if people don't want to buy cards over a certain amount (which could be any amount they decide) we can help them find budget friendly alternatives?

I don't think $50 singles are very appropriate. That's quite a hefty amount to dedicate to a hobby. I don't think the project mantains the same luster if we're building $2000 decks. Less people would build it if every deck has gaea's cradle, nine fetches, and an abu dual y'know? Even spending $30/card x 100 cards is $3000.

@3drinks but why 35$ and not 25$ or 10$? I find it very arbitrary. What cards are you trying to cut out?

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

1 year ago

@3drinks but why 35$ and not 25$ or 10$? I find it very arbitrary. What cards are you trying to cut out?

$35 still let's you have quite a range of power and even the chance to play cool splashy new mythics. Once you hit the $40 mark, you're including things like wastelands, certain fetches, mana drain, demonic tutour. Old expensive crap that for the most part, tends to be problems with the format (busted mana and undercosted tutours). While at this point we still can build power decks without needing another copy of earthcraft or survival of the fittest. But we're also not playing low power budget decks because we hamstrung the cost too low either. It's just a careful guardrail.

Great question though!!

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

1 year ago

RxPhantom wrote: ↑

1 year ago

I'm just gonna go with the masses on this one. I do think we should fit it good spiders when we can, but that's all I got. My brain may be able to adjust after we really establish the deck's focus.

Good spiders like what? Hatchery Spider ?
I imagine something like Nyx Weaver could be in it. Arachnogenesis and Spider Spawning. Not sure Skyfisher Spider is better than Maelstrom Pulse.

Can I propose we take a vote on something?

A) Efficient midrange deck that tries hard to combo out with tutors
B) Efficient Midrange deck that has combos but few/no tutors
C) Synergistic deck that has combos but few/no tutors (this would play spiders that are fine but clearly worse than other staples, giving us a bit more synergy while losing a bit of power/efficiency)
D) Thematic deck that may or may not need tutors to win (this would go hard on spiders and probably need some top tutors to have a chance of getting the deck to go off)


@3drinks why is the cap 35$ per card? I find it to be a very arbitrary number. I think most of us would spend that kind of money. Can I suggest a cap of 50$ or 100$? Especially if we want to up the power level... And if people don't want to buy cards over a certain amount (which could be any amount they decide) we can help them find budget friendly alternatives?

Personally I don't think we need to get any more sweaty than option C. We don't really need alternate combos when we've got a win con in the command zone. I say we aim for some synergy with hitting delirium quickly, staying relevant and answering the table where we need to, and aim for a way to bleed the table out with big black mana.

I'd say we could go thematic but honestly there are just so few good spiders out there I think it'd mostly just be really underwhelming by the time the dust settles.

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

1 year ago

A) Efficient midrange deck that tries hard to combo out with tutors
B) Efficient Midrange deck that has combos but few/no tutors
C) Synergistic deck that has combos but few/no tutors (this would play spiders that are fine but clearly worse than other staples, giving us a bit more synergy while losing a bit of power/efficiency)
D) Thematic deck that may or may not need tutors to win (this would go hard on spiders and probably need some top tutors to have a chance of getting the deck to go off)

I agree with toctheyounger to aim for option C. I like synergy with combos, but too many tutors just makes it a combo deck in my mind.

3drinks wrote: ↑

1 year ago

To kick off the season, let's put @Avacyn Believer and @aliciaofthevast on the clock. You have 24 hours to make your pick to allow for everyone to discuss ad yay/nay.

I start my decks with the ramp package, so my first pick is Sakura-Tribe Elder. I think I play Steve in all my decks with green, the sac ability is hard to interrupt and he is a body to block before helping to fix colours. Plus I think he fits the delirium strategy by throwing himself into the graveyard.

Also are we allowed to discuss the lands and mana base? I have some thoughts on those pre-selected cards.

3drinks wrote: ↑

1 year ago

$35 still let's you have quite a range of power and even the chance to play cool splashy new mythics.

I never thought about it this way, but your explanation makes sense and I agree.

Steve is for sure an easy add. Covers us for Delirium too, I can get behind that.

Steve is definitely in for me.

Hmm. I think my first pick has to be Sinister Concoction! It virtually turns on delirium on it's own, has a low cost all around, and is unrestricted. I don't see any downside here.

I too support STEve. I don't see a reason why not.

Yea to Steve. Not much to say there, just that he's good and also helps delirium, which is a clear positive for the deck.

As for Sinister Concoction, it's really, really, really bad in general, but also highly synergistic with this sort of deck. I love it! Yes, absolutely yes to Sinister Concoction!

I forgot Sinister Concoction even exists but I love it for this deck. Now I kinda want to fish out a copy for my own Golgari deck.

I believe STEve (man I love that nickname) is universally accepted, no sense keeping that hanging in the lurch so that's a confirmation. I'd like to see more conversation on concoction (which I love, but this kind of thing is kind of my bag baby, so I'm bias) before issuing a confirmation as it might not be a slam dunk.

For today's picks, I'm going to put @RxPhantom and @TheAmericanSpirit on the clock.

Avacyn Believer wrote: ↑

1 year ago

Also are we allowed to discuss the lands and mana base? I have some thoughts on those pre-selected cards.

There's a review process at the end. I think I pretty well covered the bases we need to be able to fire on, but I'm nothing if not flexible (until you see me continually pitch Arcum's Astrolabe into these things).