MTGNexus

Regarding Field of Ruin, I can't see any reason "each player" doesn't mean exactly that. It makes me think it's a bad Commander card.

pzbw7z wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Regarding Field of Ruin, I can't see any reason "each player" doesn't mean exactly that. It makes me think it's a bad Commander card.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
Each player does mean each player?

In a four-player game, all four players search their library for a land card.
This means: you replace the Field of Ruin you sac'd for the effect, your opponent replaces what you destroyed, and the other two players get ramped.
Thus, yes, its power is inversely proportional to the number of players in the game.

Yea, generally speaking Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Tectonic Edge are the three you would want to consider (generally in that order). If you are more budget than that then I guess Ghost Quarter and Dust Bowl are both sort of so so but it looks like you can get Tectonic Edge for like $0.50. The challenge is if you want multiple copies you will defenately notice a decline in performance of the other options if you don't have Strip Mine or Wasteland.

For me Field of Ruin is a card that I would only suggest if on a tight budget and only if you already own one and don't own one of the above. It is not rare that I run more than one of this effect but if you are on a budget and need a copy run Tectonic Edge and stop there.

There're advantages to Field of Ruin which is that it doesn't put *you* down a land and colors, so if you specifically need to reach critical mass, it can be better. Typically I would play it over Strip Mine in a deck that can't loop it and can't play extra land drops, and has 2+ colors.

Especially in budget manabases, having extra fixing in your land destruction spot can be great.

I have been just cutting all the land destruction lands personally as my manabases get tighter. Only my Loam decks still play a Wasteland (and not a Strip Mine since I don't want to tempt myself to loop someone out of the game).

pokken wrote: ↑

2 years ago

There're advantages to Field of Ruin which is that it doesn't put *you* down a land and colors, so if you specifically need to reach critical mass, it can be better. Typically I would play it over Strip Mine in a deck that can't loop it and can't play extra land drops, and has 2+ colors.

Especially in budget manabases, having extra fixing in your land destruction spot can be great.

I have been just cutting all the land destruction lands personally as my manabases get tighter. Only my Loam decks still play a Wasteland (and not a Strip Mine since I don't want to tempt myself to loop someone out of the game).

Play less green

ISBPathfinder wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Play less green

You'll pry my playset of loams from my cold dead hands I have Crucible of Worlds in like four decks right now too, it's getting to be a problem since I'm almost out of them.

ISBPathfinder wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Yea, generally speaking Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Tectonic Edge are the three you would want to consider (generally in that order). If you are more budget than that then I guess Ghost Quarter and Dust Bowl are both sort of so so but it looks like you can get Tectonic Edge for like $0.50. The challenge is if you want multiple copies you will defenately notice a decline in performance of the other options if you don't have Strip Mine or Wasteland.

For me Field of Ruin is a card that I would only suggest if on a tight budget and only if you already own one and don't own one of the above. It is not rare that I run more than one of this effect but if you are on a budget and need a copy run Tectonic Edge and stop there.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

Although I parted company with all copies of Wasteland some time ago, I do have a Strip Mine and who knows how many copies of Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter. I had just not thought about Field of Ruin beyond two players and I just happened to read the frickin' card by chance as I was going over a list for a new deck and was taken aback by the text. I'll make an exchange immediately.

Curious how Wasteland is so much more expensive than Strip Mine although the latter is strictly better. I guess folks still play Legacy.

It's interesting that Tectonic Edge works if "an opponent" has at least four lands, not the controller of the target land.

pzbw7z wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

Although I parted company with all copies of Wasteland some time ago, I do have a Strip Mine and who knows how many copies of Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter. I had just not thought about Field of Ruin beyond two players and I just happened to read the frickin' card by chance as I was going over a list for a new deck and was taken aback by the text. I'll make an exchange immediately.

Curious how Wasteland is so much more expensive than Strip Mine although the latter is strictly better. I guess folks still play Legacy.

Wasteland has significantly less printings. It had one standard legal print run (its original in tempest) and all of the rest have been specialty products at a higher rate or printings in the list. The problem with most of these printings is that the price of the product is high enough that it doesn't really allow the price of the card to drop that much. That said, before it to reprinted into Eternal Masters I believe its price tag was more than twice what it is today.

Strip Mine on the other hand was in three standard legal printings in its day which means that the amount of them out there before the premium set printings (which it aso got) happened.

Then there is Legacy. I never know how much to blame that format anymore because again its sort of limited by how many ABU duels are in existence but its not nothing that Wasteland is legacy playable and Strip Mine is not.

pzbw7z wrote: ↑

2 years ago

It's interesting that Tectonic Edge works if "an opponent" has at least four lands, not the controller of the target land.

If you ever need to use it and the clause isn't active then you probably need to be upgrading from Tec Edge to Wasteland / Strip Mine lol. I don't think its an issue very often.

I played when Strip Mine was legal in Type 2. Sinkhole and Strip Mine made the basis for a nasty Type 1 deck. Not that I would have played such jank. . . Well. . . Not very often.

Actually, I enjoyed playing RG land destruction (Ice Storm, Stone Rain and Pillage) more than BR, even if it wasn't as good.

The effect is roughly equivalent to wasteland, not worse. Either way you're on par with whoever you targeted, and down a land relative to the other players.

In fact it's probably slightly better, because it's less bad to be down a land when everyone has a lot than when everyone has few. Imagine the version that gives everyone ten lands instead of 1 - now the land you're down is almost irrelevant. Of course, in a real game, specifics matter - how much everyone has ramped, which sorts of spells they can use to take advantage of their mana, how many basics are in their deck, etc.

This is mostly moot though because costing 0 to activate is a lot better than costing 2. But the cost is the reason wasteland is better, not the effect.

Anyway wtf does this have to do with rules?

DirkGently wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Anyway wtf does this have to do with rules?

It's part of why this forum as a separate subforum makes no sense still Not enough traffic to warrant it, and half the time it's things that don't belong.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

2 years ago

This is mostly moot though because costing 0 to activate is a lot better than costing 2. But the cost is the reason wasteland is better, not the effect.

I like, 98% agree with this, but I think the color fixing for yourself makes it better than Wasteland in a lot of scenarios that you and I don't deal with (budget). Being cheaper $wise of course is a factor but playing Wasteland in a 3 color deck for most people is a luxury, but Field of Ruin can fit in and also help you fix your mana.

It's kinda narrow, right, like 3+ colors on a budget and you think you need land destruction on a land (you probably don't).

pokken wrote: ↑

2 years ago

It's part of why this forum as a separate subforum makes no sense still Not enough traffic to warrant it, and half the time it's things that don't belong.

Yes, but the other half the time it's the dedicated forum for Dirk and Pokken to screech at each other. Call me old fashioned, but I think that's important.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Yes, but the other half the time it's the dedicated forum for Dirk and Pokken to screech at each other. Call me old fashioned, but I think that's important.

And now I'm pretty sure I know why they did it like that

pokken wrote: ↑

2 years ago

DirkGently wrote: ↑

2 years ago

This is mostly moot though because costing 0 to activate is a lot better than costing 2. But the cost is the reason wasteland is better, not the effect.

I like, 98% agree with this, but I think the color fixing for yourself makes it better than Wasteland in a lot of scenarios that you and I don't deal with (budget). Being cheaper $wise of course is a factor but playing Wasteland in a 3 color deck for most people is a luxury, but Field of Ruin can fit in and also help you fix your mana.

It's kinda narrow, right, like 3+ colors on a budget and you think you need land destruction on a land (you probably don't).

Bolded to note what in particular I'm responding to -- if you're in my playgroup, you probably do. I've been known to play Maze of Ith and then copy it twice, once with Vesuva and once with Thespian's Stage, and then flip a Thaumatic Compass on top of that. Plus there's the Gaea's Cradles running around in other people's decks. And of course the Academy Ruins, and the Volrath's Strongholds, and the Halls of Heliod's Generosity. Plus Conqueror's Galleon // Conqueror's Foothold is a bit of a pet card of mine, and really obnoxious in draw-go if it ever flips. Which it regularly does. Lots of really annoying utility lands, and for good reason -- they're quite powerful. If your group includes even one player like me, you'll want your targeted land destruction. Heck, even if you have a Wasteland, you probably still want at least a little more.

Jemolk wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Bolded to note what in particular I'm responding to -- if you're in my playgroup, you probably do. I've been known to play Maze of Ith and then copy it twice, once with Vesuva and once with Thespian's Stage, and then flip a Thaumatic Compass on top of that

Yes, and one Field of Ruin stopping a dedicated deck abusing lands is just not happening. It's usually better to have an alternate strategy.

3 Maze of Ith is not materially more threatening than 2 and nobody is holding up wasteland to react to you copying Maze of Ith and then getting blown out when you Life from the Loam.

graveyard hate, and having a way to win past anti-combat-stax are far more reliable than trying to wasteland a deck probably playing other recursion. Take it from a long time land abuser, people wastelanding me loses them more games than it wins.

pokken wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Jemolk wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Bolded to note what in particular I'm responding to -- if you're in my playgroup, you probably do. I've been known to play Maze of Ith and then copy it twice, once with Vesuva and once with Thespian's Stage, and then flip a Thaumatic Compass on top of that

Yes, and one Field of Ruin stopping a dedicated deck abusing lands is just not happening. It's usually better to have an alternate strategy.

3 Maze of Ith is not materially more threatening than 2 and nobody is holding up wasteland to react to you copying Maze of Ith and then getting blown out when you Life from the Loam.

Lands are almost never my primary gameplan, and once you remove them they're usually just gone. It's just an extra layer of pillowfort that needs a dedicated answer or else they buy me way too much time to do my thing unimpeded and direct all the incidental attacks elsewhere. Sometimes they lock out games, but outside of my dedicated 5c manlands plus Maze's End deck, a single Field of Ruin absolutely is enough to break out of that. Generally speaking, if you answer my Mazes, congratulations, you answered my Mazes. Now can you deal with my other stuff? I can guarantee that just pursuing your own game plan along a different route so you don't have to deal with the Mazes won't be a sufficient solution -- the deck that does that is draw-go control, and it dedicates a fair bit to staying alive for a long time, since its primary win con is hitting each opponent in the face three times with an Elder Dragon.