MTGNexus

Most of us are aware of the signets, but with this being a new site that may attract newer players, I'll give a quick rundown. Signets are a ten-card cycle of artifacts that include the two pictured above. There is one for each color pair.

Anyway, I have a simple question: do you ever use green signets? Signets are my go-to for ramp and fixing in non-green decks, but I've never used a green one, as I mainly use Cultivate and friends when I have green on board.

So...anybody?

I don't think I've seen them much. I currently have a couple of decks with green ( Asmira, Aryxmethes, Doran) and the options you get in that color are more versatile and effective.

I'm not big on them. Green land ramp has built in color fixing and I'd rather go to mana dorks (e.g. Birds of Paradise or Llanowar Elves) if I'm trying to diversify my ramp in a green list. There's more of a call for them if you're playing land destruction, which doesn't show up much in a lot of metas.

Depends on the curve really and what I'm trying to do. If I think the deck wants more 2 drop ramp spells than farseek and lore, I will think about it because rampant growth and into the north don't provide as efficient fixing as signets.

Some decks want to play dorks instead but sometimes you're going to want to play lots of sweepers in a green deck, and signets are a better option there.

It's definitely the exception but I'll sometimes slap one in there to smooth things out.

4c green decks are a great specific use-case where you may not want to commit to green hard enough to load up on green ramp spells.

They are considerably less ubiquitous but hey, sometimes you REALLY need that second color. Prime examples being original!Ravnica part-green guildmasters, as they all have MMNN in the cost.

I do, but that's because I choose cycle completion over function and it bothers be if I don't run all the signets I can.

If it's a two color deck, then probably yes. Three colors or more no.

Short answer: No. Not ever.
I never felt the need, when I can just put a land into play instead with Nature's Lore/Rampant Growth. It's mych more common for artifacts to get blow up, then it is for lands, so I think most of the times it will be the more safer options to ramp via lands then rocks.

Yeah I'd rather just play some land-based ramp if I'm in green, since mana rocks are often incidentally hit by a sweeper that's actually dealing with someone else's board but ends up throwing me off for a few turns.

Dragonlover

Getting rocks shot out from under you is quite feelbad, why would you willingly do this to yourself in the one colour that can actually get away with not having to do it?

That said, my experience is limited - I haven't built that many multicoloured decks in my time, and the only Gx were Simic. The upthread argument of needing to lean on green's presence in a heavily colour-populated deck is not without merit. Still, I think I'd rather run multi-type lands and have the core of my ramp suite be land-with-type get spells. It would be nice if WotC finished off the BFZ/AKH land cycles...

My actual "real" answer is that 2cmc ramp is better than 3cmc ramp, and a two land hand with a signet has a much better chance of being kept over a two land hand with a Cultivate.

I usually don't if I'm running Green in the deck at all, but it really depends. In four color I might, and depending on the general I might. Glissa, the Traitor comes to mind.

Usually, I reverse signets for something that runs the other colors, specifically anything with White and one or two other colors (or three in Atraxa's case).

rogerandover wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Short answer: No. Not ever.
I never felt the need, when I can just put a land into play instead with Nature's Lore/Rampant Growth. It's mych more common for artifacts to get blow up, then it is for lands, so I think most of the times it will be the more safer options to ramp via lands then rocks.

That's another point. Nonartifact ramp allows you to go rampant on artifact hate.

Creatures die a lot too but they are quite easy to recurr,

cryogen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

My actual "real" answer is that 2cmc ramp is better than 3cmc ramp, and a two land hand with a signet has a much better chance of being kept over a two land hand with a Cultivate.

Agree with this. The followup question is how much 2 CMC ramp do you run in a typical deck? I usually go for Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farseek, Nature's Lore, Rampant Growth, sometimes Into the North, and Three Visits (depending on MTGO/proxy/long time EDH playing/poor impulse control) for 2 CMC green land ramp. Once you get past that, you've got all of the 1 CMC mana dorks. Signets wouldn't really enter the conversation for me unless I was playing in a meta where my lands were under threat or my game plan hinged on playing a 4 CMC card on turn 3.

Another thing to remember about signets is that they create a lot of broken starts with 0-1 cmc artifacts (all the major moxes, sol ring, mana crypt). The old mana crypt->Signet->signet opener is pretty much unbeatable.

That said, I think it's important to be careful with taking that to extremes because when you have a lot of turn 1 ramp, CMC 3 ramp's value actually goes up in some ways, *especially* if that ramp is mana dorks.

Overloading on 2 CMC ramp is a good way to either flood or stall on mana if your deck isn't built right around those effects--meaning for example that signets are pretty great if you are pretty sure to gas up on 4 mana (since signets are the most consistent at bridging from 2-4). But they're a lot worse if you depend on hitting your first 4 land drops and going to 5 mana to hit your refueling spells (e.g. Mind's Eye).

Reason being that hitting 4 lands out of 10 cards is not actually all that likely when you have 35-38 lands in the deck -- <60%), and if you need to get to 5 mana you're counting on that. So you need to be playing cheaper draw spells, or have some other way to gas up <5 mana if you want to be consistent at getting there.

For me there is no typical deck - every deck wants its own ramp profile. I've played many decks with no 2 cmc ramp at all, just 1 and 3. And one of my current decks has only 4 total ramp spells (sol ring, sapphire medallion, fellwar stone and dimir signet).

It's important to think about what you want to cast when and then build to facilitate that. If I'm playing a control deck in green I'll play the ramp that generates card advantage over almost anything else (Cultivate et al, because they function as a 3 CMC draw 2 which is borderline playable in those decks on its own without the ramp).

In mana dork and extra land drop decks I almost always end up with huge bubbles at 1 and 3 from a ramp perspective (because burgeoning, exploration, sakura-tribe scout, azusa, swordtooth and cultivate make that pretty natural).

I have a habit of always putting in on colour signets in all of my decks, I feel they're always handy. Even if green has a lot of ramp

I personally use the Simic and the Golgari ones in Sultai. And then I also use mana dorks and ramp sorceries: there's no such a thing as too much ramp/fixing in my book.

I mostly prefer land based ramp when in green. They are near auto-includes in non-green decks though.

No. I don't think I have ever played a green mana rock (I was kind of disappointed to open a foil Talisman of Resilience since I will likely never use it) nor do I use Sol Ring (and similar cards). First, green has other forms of ramp that I prefer to use and I always run Bane of Progress in every green deck so blowing up my own rocks feels pretty bad.

The bonus speed from coming down from turn 1 of a sol ring, ancient tomb etc, off-color casting incase you don't have green and ability to tap once they come down (at least if you have spare mana, or as with talismans, generally) nudge the signets/talisman in the direction over the sorceries. When they get blown up, you're usually on enough lands that you should be okay with what mana you have anyways.

I use Simic Signet as well as the new talisman in Tatyova, Benthic Druid in order to help me get her out even faster so that I can save my land ramp for when she's out, which yields a double whammy to me.

Somewhat meta dependent. 2 mana signets are superior to 3 mana ramp for speed, but inferior when considering survival. You are far less likely to have several land destroyed than several artifacts.

Generally I use them if the following conditions apply:

1.) 3-Color deck with heavy colored mana costs where I need to ramp fast, and I use green ramp to get my colors

2.) 5-color deck where, again, I use green ramp to get access to all my colors, so I lean heavy into green signets to make sure I can always one or more ramp spells.

Historically, I have not. There are plenty of two-cost green cards that will do a better job (i.e. find a less-vulnerable mana source).

That said, I would strongly consider it if my deck were based around Restore Balance or Magus of the Balance. It's not that they're totally useless, but you need a *very* good reason to run it ahead of almost every equivalent.

Yeah, I'll play 'em in the right deck.. There are a few situations where they're very useful:

• You're playing in a meta where opponents go after your lands. Admittedly, this is usually when someone's playing a Stax-y deck, and they're likely going after your artifact mana too... but still, diversifying your mana's a way to claw back some advantage from Stax guy. Having that Talisman or Signet feels pretty good when you're stuck under a Blood Moon or only have that one sandbagged land in hand after an Armageddon.
  You're Stax guy, and you're going after everyone's lands. You monster. This probably applies most to something like Naya or 4-color red, where you want to set up an early board state, then drop some combination of Armageddons or Wildfires to cement your lead.
  You've got a list with complicated mana that really wants an explosive start. This is sorta piggybacking on what 75chan said, but the signets/talismans give the potential for a very quick opening off of a Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Ancient Tomb draw, and if colored mana is relevant for your list, the Monoliths and other rocks might not do it for you.
  Your list has relevant ways to manipulate artifacts or otherwise mitigate the Signets potential card disadvantage. I'm thinking something like Rafiq of the Many... you want your general on the table punching people ASAP, and you've probably got ways to tutor and recur equipment anyway, so there's some added synergy to pick up from running the signets. Damia's another good example; she's going to make up a lot of the card advantage that you'd otherwise lose from having your side of the table Vandalblast'd. Someone mentioned Glissa already... she falls in this category too.

Also, even if they're not useful, I'm not above building derpy theme decks. I could see myself running Selesnya Signet in a Tolsimir deck, just for the flavor tie-in.