MTGNexus

here

"Consider this:

If the game is doing well in sales without any events happening, what the hell has all this tournament religion been for all these years? It's been nearly impossible to run any tournaments for a year, but the game is still flowing. Anyone could've paid attention to good data at any point in the last decade and realized this, but here we are. The "silent" majority of casual players that drive the game's market has been "hiding" in plain sight. While the validation myths of tournament culture were disenchanting us every time another self-righteous fraud got caught cheating or some pro cashed in all their good will with a transparent scam or by saying something stunningly out of touch, the vast majority of Magic's biggest market was doing what Magic players are supposed to do: they were having fun acquiring, trading, and playing with Magic cards."

I had fun reading this! not sure I agree with *everything* but he pokes at a lot of stuff which needs poking at. bonus points for honing in on the lack of subtlety in recent sets, both in terms of chase value and theme.

Wait, have people been under the assumption that Tournament play was a significant part of the Magic audience? I'm being serious here, I've lurked on these forums for years but I was under the impression that everyone was mildly competent and understood that when Wizards said repeatedly that tournament play was a tiny percentage of play that people understood this to be true. The market has always been driven by demand and demand has always been driven by what is perceived as powerful. The tournament scene was a good lens to see what was powerful but it was never tournaments driving sales, they were focusing interest.

user_938036 wrote: ↑

3 years ago

ait, have people been under the assumption that Tournament play was a significant part of the Magic audience? I'm being serious here, I've lurked on these forums for years but I was under the impression that everyone was mildly competent and understood that when Wizards said repeatedly that tournament play was a tiny percentage of play

The thing is that wizards has spent millions and tons of effort catering to the tournament spikes for years and years, so it's more surprising that Wizards hasn't really changed their strategy based on their own research. They push cards and try to create really powerful exciting standard environments when we know that standard tournament play is a tiny drop in the bucket. And they create cards specifically to affect modern and legacy tournament play that's again a tiny percentage of the audience.

Not to mention all the pro e-sports crap trying to create personalities out of people who are basically tournament grinders instead of focusing on Cube, EDH and kitchen table magic and people who are personalities first instead of pros first.

The amount of attention paid to Commander on the news/streaming/content scene is absolutely comical given that it's probably the #1 revenue driver these days.

From Wizards own admission, they try to make cards that are exciting in all formats. Some are made for standard (the majority), some are made for Modern (a few), some are made for pauper (pushed commons), some are made for Commander (exciting legends, primarily, as well as mana rocks and nonbasics), and a tiny few for vintage/legacy that are really powerful in that format, but hardly have an impact on standard/modern (Like Goblin Charbelcher for example). All of these things are things that they do in standard legal sets, and sometimes they end up creating a card so powerful that it warps one or more of the formats unintentionally.

It's just good business practice to give stuff that the majority of your customers can enjoy, and then a few more specialized products for various parts of their audience (such as the commander decks, and the auxiliary sets, and yes, the Secret Lairs).

They don't always succeed, and they do make mistakes, but they are only human after all.

I worry like crazy whenever they make cards For a Format. I don't play anything competitively and even casually I prefer to play slow, niche, pet decks, so I'm not at all impacted when they print a Skullclamp, or a Hogaak, or a Scarab God, or what have you, but I feel like I've been playing and following M:TG long enough that I can tell when a card's been made to be good somewhere, without thinking about what happens as a result. When cards like Uro are revealed, we all know straight away that they're chase cards which do too much; it's wrong to consider them mistakes when they're so obviously and cynically intentional. A certain amount of chaos drives hype for the game in a way.

That's only half of what the article's saying, anyway. If the dev teams put precisely 0 effort into conscious design for competitive formats but put out the same number of cards a year, the formats would still exist and the hand that acknowledges tournament players without understanding what they want would no longer be moving the cards for them. imo

I feel that tournament grinders/competitive players have been a small (but vocal) minority for a while now. With the whole pandemic, the only way to play any kind of tournaments is through arena or mtgo, so I kinda disagree with the statement it's been impossible to run any kind of tournament. but I get where the author is coming from in saying that

A lot of the sales come from casual players, especially with commander growing as a casual format. I feel that it's super hard to accurately gage how many "casual" players there are that account for sales, as many of them may never even play inside a store. Kitchen table players are probably much higher in numbers than tournament players, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them have never even played inside a store or even had a DCI number when they were a thing.

I guess I often forget as a tournament player that these types of things don't appeal to all players, who would often rather just play a few games at a friend's house rather than drive X amount of hours to go play against people who may take the game way more seriously than them

I just want to point out that competitive play is alive and well during the pandemic, indeed it is thriving. Since people in most parts of the world can't play in stores anymore due to the pandemic, people have gotten creative, for example, there is a global legacy competitive league made possible thanks to Discord. As someone mentioned on Maro's blog a few days ago.

pokken wrote: ↑

3 years ago

The thing is that wizards has spent millions and tons of effort catering to the tournament spikes for years and years, so it's more surprising that Wizards hasn't really changed their strategy based on their own research. They push cards and try to create really powerful exciting standard environments when we know that standard tournament play is a tiny drop in the bucket. And they create cards specifically to affect modern and legacy tournament play that's again a tiny percentage of the audience.

Not to mention all the pro e-sports crap trying to create personalities out of people who are basically tournament grinders instead of focusing on Cube, EDH and kitchen table magic and people who are personalities first instead of pros first.

The amount of attention paid to Commander on the news/streaming/content scene is absolutely comical given that it's probably the #1 revenue driver these days.

This is all true except that part where what they are doing is somehow wrong from a data perspective.

First, they've spent millions and tones of effort marketing via tournaments. This is one of the best uses of their marketing budget. As for pushed cards. Everyone likes pushed cards, not just tournament spikes.

Second, their abysmal attempts as proE-sports. They want to push tournaments because they can focus on standard which has always and will always be their method of cashing in. EDH may be more popular but it's simply harder for them to get sales through EDH as opposed to their premier ROTATING format.

Finally, being the most popular and interesting format doesn't mean it will drive sales. They want the cards they are selling to be on the screen, not cards you buy from some secondary source. They should support this audience more but it's perfectly understandable why they aren't when you consider their goals.

I zeroed in on this part about the creative aspect:

At present, Magic creative seems to mostly co-opt the already lazy and tired ideas of other big entertainment franchises to brute force the storytelling to fit the target market initiatives. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of inadequacy and point missing. It's a bit like trying to race a street car with a boat. I don't know why they do it, and it makes them look ridiculous.

I find this particular passage very appropriate with Harry Potter world on the horizon.

pokken wrote: ↑

3 years ago

The thing is that wizards has spent millions and tons of effort catering to the tournament spikes for years and years, so it's more surprising that Wizards hasn't really changed their strategy based on their own research. They push cards and try to create really powerful exciting standard environments when we know that standard tournament play is a tiny drop in the bucket. And they create cards specifically to affect modern and legacy tournament play that's again a tiny percentage of the audience.

Not to mention all the pro e-sports crap trying to create personalities out of people who are basically tournament grinders instead of focusing on Cube, EDH and kitchen table magic and people who are personalities first instead of pros first.

The amount of attention paid to Commander on the news/streaming/content scene is absolutely comical given that it's probably the #1 revenue driver these days.

After a couple years of them focusing on casual and EDH, I think I'd rather WotC go back to focusing on Standard and Modern Spikes now.

BeneTleilax wrote: ↑

3 years ago

After a couple years of them focusing on casual and EDH, I think I'd rather WotC go back to focusing on Standard and Modern Spikes now.

As Commander is the most popular format by far (it's allegedly more popular than all other constructed formats together) I doubt it is going away soon. However, besides the continuation of the set connected Commander decks, it feels like that this year is more Modern focused, with both Time Spiral remastered and Modern Horizon's 2 being released this year. And as a primarily commander player, I think that is a good thing. Anything that makes the other formats better is good in my book, because it also inevitably helps Commander in the long run.

Krishnath wrote: ↑

3 years ago

As Commander is the most popular format by far (it's allegedly more popular than all other constructed formats together) I doubt it is going away soon. However, besides the continuation of the set connected Commander decks, it feels like that this year is more Modern focused, with both Time Spiral remastered and Modern Horizon's 2 being released this year. And as a primarily commander player, I think that is a good thing. Anything that makes the other formats better is good in my book, because it also inevitably helps Commander in the long run.

I'm also an EDH player, and was merely commenting on how their "focus" has been largely destructive to the format.

BeneTleilax wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Krishnath wrote: ↑

3 years ago

As Commander is the most popular format by far (it's allegedly more popular than all other constructed formats together) I doubt it is going away soon. However, besides the continuation of the set connected Commander decks, it feels like that this year is more Modern focused, with both Time Spiral remastered and Modern Horizon's 2 being released this year. And as a primarily commander player, I think that is a good thing. Anything that makes the other formats better is good in my book, because it also inevitably helps Commander in the long run.

I'm also an EDH player, and was merely commenting on how their "focus" has been largely destructive to the format.

I don't agree with that, at all. If anything, it has diversified the decks considerably. I have a friend that is now running a red-green tribal elfball deck thanks to the new partners in Commander Legends, and I have literally a dozen decks in the works thanks to all the goodies we've gotten over the last year inspiring me to try new (and often weird) things. Heck, even the out of the box power levels of the precon decks have improved (although they still can't get the mana bases right, would it be that difficult to put Gilt-Leaf palace in a black-green tribal elf deck, really?)

Krishnath wrote: ↑

3 years ago

I don't agree with that, at all. If anything, it has diversified the decks considerably. I have a friend that is now running a red-green tribal elfball deck thanks to the new partners in Commander Legends, and I have literally a dozen decks in the works thanks to all the goodies we've gotten over the last year inspiring me to try new (and often weird) things. Heck, even the out of the box power levels of the precon decks have improved (although they still can't get the mana bases right, would it be that difficult to put Gilt-Leaf palace in a black-green tribal elf deck, really?)

I do not consider Chulane or Korvold to be improvements. We have more options, theoretically, yes, but the metagame has increasingly consolidated, and the guiding rules of the format have grown only weaker.

BeneTleilax wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Krishnath wrote: ↑

3 years ago

I don't agree with that, at all. If anything, it has diversified the decks considerably. I have a friend that is now running a red-green tribal elfball deck thanks to the new partners in Commander Legends, and I have literally a dozen decks in the works thanks to all the goodies we've gotten over the last year inspiring me to try new (and often weird) things. Heck, even the out of the box power levels of the precon decks have improved (although they still can't get the mana bases right, would it be that difficult to put Gilt-Leaf palace in a black-green tribal elf deck, really?)

I do not consider Chulane or Korvold to be improvements. We have more options, theoretically, yes, but the metagame has increasingly consolidated, and the guiding rules of the format have grown only weaker.

The metagame is mostly reliant on your playgroup. If something is unfun to play with or against, communicate it with your playgroup and come to an agreement, or develop counter strategies that wreck them.

Krishnath wrote: ↑

3 years ago

The metagame is mostly reliant on your playgroup. If something is unfun to play with or against, communicate it with your playgroup and come to an agreement, or develop counter strategies that wreck them.

My own meta is pretty good, though I did have to dissolve my Korvold deck after realizing how miserable that general is. There is a broader meta, though, from which individuals get their expectations and decklist inspiration, and I have watched that broader meta become more staple-focused and elitist in recent years, and in proportion to WotC's involvement. "Why aren't you running [known staple]?" is the most poisonous notion in deckbuilding, I think.

BeneTleilax wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Krishnath wrote: ↑

3 years ago

The metagame is mostly reliant on your playgroup. If something is unfun to play with or against, communicate it with your playgroup and come to an agreement, or develop counter strategies that wreck them.

My own meta is pretty good, though I did have to dissolve my Korvold deck after realizing how miserable that general is. There is a broader meta, though, from which individuals get their expectations and decklist inspiration, and I have watched that broader meta become more staple-focused and elitist in recent years, and in proportion to WotC's involvement. "Why aren't you running [known staple]?" is the most poisonous notion in deckbuilding, I think.

I pretty much agree with that, which is why I ignore whether or not a card is a staple or not when building decks for the commander format. I pretty much run what I want to run regardless of whether it is a staple or not (which is why my Ayli deck runs five black buyback spells from Tempest block for example, and the black and the white Demigods from Theros: Beyond. Or why I love to play stupid tribal decks. Had to stop with the slivers though, people started complaining when I kept winning by playing Warp World >.<)