MTGNexus

DirkGently wrote: ↑

2 years ago

There's a pretty long list of strong blue cantrips, and none of them (except brainstorm if you have some synergy I suppose) are really much better or worse than the rest. Play them if you're triggering spellcraft, otherwise they're just filler basically. Sleight is a bit weak as a sorcery, though it gives you more information than opt. So yeah, I'd play it if I was triggering spellcraft and had enough slots.

Storm is another reason, or things like Guttersnipe. On the flip side, benefit from card draw (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, The Locust God, Teferi's Ageless Insight) triggers too.

Cheap (1 or 2 mana, 3 if you're playing Sun Titan and it's a permanent) cantrips and/or cycling can thin a deck well enough, but those synergies make, I basically think of this cantrips like this as being storm's version of tokens: Tiny things with a number that makes them easy to abuse.

This is a dig cantrip, which is itself synergistic.

I agree that cantrips are under rated, and I love running a few to smooth opening hands even without specific spellslinger or shuffle synergy. They give you an easier first 4-5 turns if drawn early (and increasingly, those are "key turns" in Commander even if the game goes to turn 15 in my meta), and most dig deeper than just replacement if drawn late.

Sleight of Hand falls on the weaker side, and I don't currently run it anywhere. Obviously it's first competition is Brainstorm, Ponder, and Preordain, which all look at more cards (and Brainstorm is an instant with shuffle and miracle and "top of deck" synergy to boot!). If I want more than that, I then tend to feel like Serum Visions (overall looks at more cards) and Opt (the same or less cards, but instant speed) tend to be my next two picks. If I'm not a dedicated spellslinger deck, from there I'd have a hard time running more cantrips than that. My one deck that might consider it, Sevinne, instead has Thrill of Possibility, Faithless Looting, and Careful Study competing for those slots.

For a dedicated spellslinger deck (let's say something like Talrand, Sky Summoner) I'd also find the aforementioned Peek effects superior, as it gives information. Peek and Clairvoyance also have that instant speed, while Gitaxian Probe is free.

To answer the original question - I'd have to be a deck like Talrand to run some cantrips, like Cerulean Wisps or Obsessive Search, that are literally just one mana draw with no additional upshot. This is a cut above those, and runnable in more than just Talrand decks, but generally finds itself inferior to the top 5 cantrips in the format.

I usually play Serum Visions over this because I have foils of it that I think are nice looking, and Sleight of Hand's art is not my favorite. Also Visions sees more cards which makes it usually better earlier on.

But that said, in EDH, getting a card you want now is usually better mid-game so it makes Sleight a much better topdeck. I'd usually play this before Opt though people are big fans of instants I think the power level is quite a bit higher.

All that said I think people really sleep on Portent - in control shells it's truly ridiculously good, plus the monstrous synergy with stuff like Oracle of Mul Daya.

As others have said, Sleight of Hand is fine if you need another cantrip, but there are a ton of options - Brainstorm, Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, etc. Sleight of Hand has a niche upside of not drawing a card (and thus getting around Hullbreacher effects), but if you're running The Locust God or another reason to care about card draw, it goes down in value. I don't think I'm currently running it anywhere, since I do feel like it's on the weaker end of cantrips.

Re: cantrips in general - if everyone says they're underrated, are they actually? More seriously, I'm running a bunch of cantrips in my spellslinger decks, but if I don't have instant / sorcery synergies, I'm a lot less excited about them. I probably should be playing a few in my other decks, but cutting actual card draw for it makes me feel like I'll run out of gas too quickly. Hmmm...

More broadly, do people play cantrips in decks with no synergies, just for consistency? Does that change if you're running a commander like Azami, Lady of Scrolls or Kami of the Crescent Moon that already provides card draw?

pokken wrote: ↑

2 years ago

All that said I think people really sleep on Portent - in control shells it's truly ridiculously good, plus the monstrous synergy with stuff like Oracle of Mul Daya.

I thought you were talking Predict when I first read this and the statement pretty much holds the same. A little tougher to get the full effect out of, but immensely satisfying to hit someone who just tutored and two cards for two mana at instant speed is a great rate.

I have to be pretty deep on cantrips for Sleight of Hand. My blue lists usually start on Ponder/Preordain then Brainstorm as long as I have some way to clear the top of the deck. After those, I like the stronger 2 mana options more than the weaker 1 mana ones, e.g. Impulse, Deliberate, and Curate. Seeing more cards at instant speed is worth the additional mana to me as I usually include them in more controlling lists if I'm going that deep on selection.

I include Strategic Planning, Ransack the Lab, Mental Note, and Thought Scour ahead of it in my Kess deck. Digging is nice, but I also care where the "other" cards end up when the spell resolves.

Mookie wrote: ↑

2 years ago

More broadly, do people play cantrips in decks with no synergies, just for consistency? Does that change if you're running a commander like Azami, Lady of Scrolls or Kami of the Crescent Moon that already provides card draw?

Yes and yes for me. I like them as an easy way to hit land drops and other setup cards early, then avoid the same cards late when the cost to cantrip is minimal. They do lose some value if you're going to reliably draw a comparable number of cards at some point in the game, though. I don't play them in decks like enchantress or elves where there are easily available draw engines that require a high density of whichever card type. For something like Azami, I would probably still run them. Azami comes online late enough that there's still value in having them to set up and she draws enough cards that the cantrips being comparatively less impactful late doesn't hurt as much.

Mookie wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Re: cantrips in general - if everyone says they're underrated, are they actually? More seriously, I'm running a bunch of cantrips in my spellslinger decks, but if I don't have instant / sorcery synergies, I'm a lot less excited about them. I probably should be playing a few in my other decks, but cutting actual card draw for it makes me feel like I'll run out of gas too quickly. Hmmm...

Yeah I would say that most casual decks that play blue do not play enough cantrips. The advantage of cantrips is you can play fewer lands, which is usually good. Generally in EDH I'd recommend cutting 1 land for every 4 1-2 mana cantrips you run. You shouldn't be cutting card draw spells, but cutting your worst spells. Because cantrips and card draw both represent more of whatever's in your deck, and they all kind of work together to find more good cards. You cut your worst draw spells maybe but only if they're really worse than your worst removal spell or your worst sweeper.

Cantrips let you play fewer better cards, and fewer lands, and more reliably get to them.

The challenge with cantrips is that in order for them to be reliable you really need untapped blue mana on turn 1 every game, and that's tougher the worse your manabase is. It's kinda like playing mana dorks in a 3 color green deck - people often underestimate how many untapped green sources they need to make that reliable.

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Storm is another reason, or things like Guttersnipe. On the flip side, benefit from card draw (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, The Locust God, Teferi's Ageless Insight) triggers too.

That's what i meant, i was just shorthanding it. mission failed, apparently.

This doesn't draw btw so none of those cards trigger.

pokken wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Mookie wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Re: cantrips in general - if everyone says they're underrated, are they actually? More seriously, I'm running a bunch of cantrips in my spellslinger decks, but if I don't have instant / sorcery synergies, I'm a lot less excited about them. I probably should be playing a few in my other decks, but cutting actual card draw for it makes me feel like I'll run out of gas too quickly. Hmmm...

Yeah I would say that most casual decks that play blue do not play enough cantrips. The advantage of cantrips is you can play fewer lands, which is usually good. Generally in EDH I'd recommend cutting 1 land for every 4 1-2 mana cantrips you run. You shouldn't be cutting card draw spells, but cutting your worst spells. Because cantrips and card draw both represent more of whatever's in your deck, and they all kind of work together to find more good cards. You cut your worst draw spells maybe but only if they're really worse than your worst removal spell or your worst sweeper.

Cantrips let you play fewer better cards, and fewer lands, and more reliably get to them.

The challenge with cantrips is that in order for them to be reliable you really need untapped blue mana on turn 1 every game, and that's tougher the worse your manabase is. It's kinda like playing mana dorks in a 3 color green deck - people often underestimate how many untapped green sources they need to make that reliable.

Exactly this. Cantrips are generally received favorably by the Internet, but out in the FLGS wilds I don't see them outside of dedicated spellslinger decks when in fact virtually every blue deck should be playing them.

Dodges Hullbreacher.

Saturday, July 3rd, 2021; Flameshadow Conjuring

I used to play this in mono-red Golos and I enjoyed it a lot. You can guess what I did with it, but other than copying golos it was fun as basically a haste enabler. I won a lot of games copying Balefire Dragon out of nowhere.

Its really good. Its one of the few self taxing cards that is I wont say fair but fair enough and fun enough to play.

Saturday, July 3rd, 2021; Flameshadow Conjuring

The only deck I've played this in is Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded. My group answers it on sight.

That said, I'm sure it's good in other decks.

Seems pretty bonkers in Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer too.

This is definitely one of those cards that really helps red stand out on its own nowadays. If you are playing something tribal related you might want to look into Molten Echoes instead.

Sunday, July 4th, 2021; World Shaper



#CombosWithWildernessReclamation

#CombosWithScuteSwarm

Exploded some people with that recently...gaea's cradle helped.

I love world shaper. Second only to scaretiller on the derpy lands cards I force that most people don't play.

Sunday, July 4th, 2021; World Shaper

Splendid Reclamation with legs plus some mill. It ends up in exactly the same decks as Splendid Reclamation for me.

World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation are pretty good with fetchlands…or is it just that everything is good with fetchlands?

Love this in my Mina and Denn, Wildborn deck since I tend to put lands in my own graveyard.

Strip Mine, fetchlands, spellahapers, cycling lands, Crop Rotation, Primal Growth, Prophecy pitch spells (and Squirrel Wrangler, come to think of it), manlands...Lots of ways to fill your graveyard with lands.

Though I can't help but want to uae her with Overlaid Terrain.

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Strip Mine, fetchlands, spellahapers, cycling lands, [cafd]Crop Rotation[/card], Primal Growth, Prophecy pitch spells (and Squirrel Wrangler, come to think of it), manlands...Lots of ways to fill your graveyard with lands.

Though I can't help but want to uae her with Overlaid Terrain.

That's the combo right there.