MTGNexus

Posted: **Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:12 pm**

Its awkward in that you are sort of stacking a bunch of buffs in one location while going wide. Usually you don't want to go both big and wide but the small cavoite I will give it is that it might help against edicts. I think this card is probably in most cases a trap though.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:00 am**

ISBPathfinder wrote: ↑
1 month ago
Its awkward in that you are sort of stacking a bunch of buffs in one location while going wide. Usually you don't want to go both big and wide but the small cavoite I will give it is that it might help against edicts. I think this card is probably in most cases a trap though.

I'd slam it onto Thrun, the Last Troll for sure. Edicts is the one consistent thing he's weak to and this shores that incredibly well.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:33 pm**

Tuesday, March 26th 2024; Celestial Dawn

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:25 pm**

Thank god they changed the color identity rules to make this thing actually fair. I remember this being hot zedruu tech in the early 2010s because you could straight up lock an opponent out of colored mana if they weren't already in white.

Now, finally, years later, this card just does what it says it does and no one plays it. Justice.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:12 pm**

TheAmericanSpirit wrote: ↑
1 month ago
Thank god they changed the color identity rules to make this thing actually fair. I remember this being hot zedruu tech in the early 2010s because you could straight up lock an opponent out of colored mana if they weren't already in white.

Now, finally, years later, this card just does what it says it does and no one plays it. Justice.

Yup. I have a friend that used to love donating this with Zedruu. He was like, "I'm playing such janky cards!" And I'd point out, "But you're being a dick with them."

I don't really see the point of this card otherwise--we have very little color-matters in modern Magic, and I can't think of any that were significant enough to bother putting this in the 99 of a deck.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:29 pm**

the combo i remember was this and Flashfires

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:19 pm**

I definitely played this as super fixing in a young Kaalia. Kinda funny that it'll make certain swords fall off.

I wonder what happens when I control Painter's Servant (red) and someone casts Donate and gives this to me. Why is this relevant? Let's say I'm playing Torbran, Thane of Red Fell so now keeping or losing my colour makes all the difference in the world.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:26 pm**

A relic to remind us that, despite there many short comings, WOTC has come a long way.

👎👎

Posted: **Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:14 am**

3drinks wrote: ↑
1 month ago
I definitely played this as super fixing in a young Kaalia. Kinda funny that it'll make certain swords fall off.

I wonder what happens when I control Painter's Servant (red) and someone casts Donate and gives this to me. Why is this relevant? Let's say I'm playing Torbran, Thane of Red Fell so now keeping or losing my colour makes all the difference in the world.

First, the easy part: all your lands are still Red no matter what since Celestial Dawn doesn't affect the color of lands.

As for the rest of the stuff they affect, since the color changing happens in the same layer, it comes down to Timestamps between the two cards. And the timestamps of these cards are determined at the time they enter the battlefield. If Painter's Servant enters first, it applies to turn everything Red (in addition to other colors) and then Celestial Dawn applies after to turn everything into just White and strips away all other colors.

The opposite is then true: if Dawn enters, everything is White (stripping away all other colors). Then PS applies and everything becomes Red and White. Note that Donating Dawn does not change the Timestamp. And since PS applies to everything, you would have to already know the timestamps before that anyway for the Dawn player to determine if their stuff is Red and White or just White.

I will say (to stay at least a little on topic

) I do agree with a previous poster that I greatly enjoy that the mana production rules change nerfed this card pretty hard. While the change wasn't made for this card in particular, it is nice that it is back to a potentially interesting piece in certain decks rather than a lock piece.

Posted: **Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:51 am**

Celestial Dawn used to combo with Zedruu the Greathearted and other Donate effects, since your opponents couldn't generate white mana unless it was in their color identity. That doesn't work anymore, fortunately. Thought Lash is another card I'll call out that functionally changed to no longer work with Zedruu, which... sounds very weird to me in the context of today's power level, but I won't complain either. Now people have to make their opponents lose the game the fair way, with The Beamtown Bullies + Leveler!

...wait, what?

....anyway, Celestial Dawn seems pretty underwhelming these days. It could theoretically work if you really need the fixing - I've heard of people running it with Sen Triplets. It could also work if you have a ton of synergies for having tons of white permanents or plains, like Rith, the Awakener, Emeria Shepherd, or Linden, the Steadfast Queen. Unfortunately, it also turns off Emeria, the Sky Ruin and other utility lands, which is a bit awkward. I think Painter's Servant and Chromatic Lantern are generally better, but there are probably some interesting combos for it out there.

Posted: **Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:23 pm**

Wednesday, March 27th 2024; Leonin Shikari

Hard to imagine this thing still hasn't cratered yet. Even with the reprint in C17 it still holds strong at the price of a {draft} pack. This tells me it's probably still quite strong with reasonable demand.

Posted: **Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:27 pm**

WizardMN wrote: ↑
1 month ago

3drinks wrote: ↑
1 month ago
I definitely played this as super fixing in a young Kaalia. Kinda funny that it'll make certain swords fall off.

I wonder what happens when I control Painter's Servant (red) and someone casts Donate and gives this to me. Why is this relevant? Let's say I'm playing Torbran, Thane of Red Fell so now keeping or losing my colour makes all the difference in the world.
First, the easy part: all your lands are still Red no matter what since Celestial Dawn doesn't affect the color of lands.

As for the rest of the stuff they affect, since the color changing happens in the same layer, it comes down to Timestamps between the two cards. And the timestamps of these cards are determined at the time they enter the battlefield. If Painter's Servant enters first, it applies to turn everything Red (in addition to other colors) and then Celestial Dawn applies after to turn everything into just White and strips away all other colors.

The opposite is then true: if Dawn enters, everything is White (stripping away all other colors). Then PS applies and everything becomes Red and White. Note that Donating Dawn does not change the Timestamp. And since PS applies to everything, you would have to already know the timestamps before that anyway for the Dawn player to determine if their stuff is Red and White or just White.

I will say (to stay at least a little on topic ) I do agree with a previous poster that I greatly enjoy that the mana production rules change nerfed this card pretty hard. While the change wasn't made for this card in particular, it is nice that it is back to a potentially interesting piece in certain decks rather than a lock piece.

I had a feeling it came down to timestamps......

Posted: **Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:13 pm**

Once upon a time the only thing I wanted to do with my life was have this guy + Sunforger out at the same time and respond to everything all the time.

Posted: **Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:58 pm**

equipment shenanigans

👍👍

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:59 am**

The strongest use case I've ever seen for Leonin Shikari is Lightning Greaves. Free instant shroud pretty much scuttles any single target removal.

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:54 pm**

Thursday, March 28th, 2024; Samwise the Stouthearted

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:51 pm**

Being able to hit fetchlands or whatever makes him reasonably flexible I guess, but unless you're really interested in ring tempts I can't imagine running him. So I guess Frodo, Sauron's Bane?

Looking on EDHrec I called the most popular, but he is seeing a decent amount of play in other decks too, so maybe he's more versatile than I give him credit for. Only 39 decks as commander though, ouch.

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:58 pm**

3drinks wrote: ↑
1 month ago

As many things, he easily loops with Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, which is something, i guess.

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:02 pm**

This card suffers from not ramping with fetchlands. :thumbsdown:

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:03 pm**

What's the loop? I don't see it.

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:10 pm**

3drinks wrote: ↑
1 month ago
What's the loop? I don't see it.

I imagine you'd need to do some dance to make it net some mana somehow (e.g. token producers and altars or KCI), but there are probably like 20 loops with it potentially :D

I think the most obvious is probably an open creature sac outlet + Lion's Eye Diamond (e.g. Blasting Station)

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:44 pm**

I've been running this in Samwise Gamgee food spam and been a bit disappointed, honestly - with only two fetches he hasn't been able to farm as much value as I expected since other Sam is generally pretty good about being able to recur whatever I want. The deck has enough tutors and draw that I've found Boromir, Gondor's Hope, Arwen, Mortal Queen, and Saffi Eriksdotter fairly reliably too, and they are all much better at the job of being protection that can be recurred. The big thing of course is that back to hand instead of battlefield is just much worse than passing out Indestructible or recurring directly to battlefield. Card is still fine and low on the list of cards to cut, but I think you likely want him more as a "Ring" payoff than a "value" payoff, as you can just do better on that front...

At least in Commander, as I know he's a Cube staple and strong playable in formats where it's much easier to run 12+ fetches and see them more often with a 40 or 60 card deck.

Posted: **Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:09 pm**

3drinks wrote: ↑
1 month ago
What's the loop? I don't see it.

Maybe i should write a primer about that...

Posted: **Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:35 am**

This Sam is pretty boring. It's a pretty narrow regrowth with the Ring tempts tacked on. Probably has some use in a dedicated Hobbit deck or dedicated Ring deck, though those both kind of suck.

As for the Teshar loop, just one of many and not the most useful on its own nor most well suited to the role.

I missed Celestial Dawn but wanted to comment on it. It's a solid mana fixer, but needing two white mana hurts it since you usually aren't going to be leaning on white in any deck that wants a universal fixer like this. Still, without green it could do real work just on that. There isn't much use currently for its other modes. There are numerous spells that boost white creatures, but it's not worth the setup of running non white creatures and then white boosting spells and dropping this so the nonwhite creatures get the white boost. Also, two of those cards are banned. I guess you could be janky and evil in equal measure and combo this with Painters Servant and a severe color hoser. Painters Servant for Red or something, then drop this to make all your stuff white and go nuts spamming anti red stuff that hurts everyone but you. Can your friends really hate you if you ruined the game using terrible cards?

Posted: **Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:17 am**

One of those commanders that make me wish Karakas was legal but only for targeting your own commander XD (and no, Sanctum of Eternity doesn't count).

Under whelming as a commander, but fine in the 99

👍

MTGNexus

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