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Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:55 pm
by MeowZeDung
The basic idea for this deck is to go as wide as possible with tokens, then leverage
Prava of the Steel Legion's butt buff alongside
High Alert and, ideally,
Sakashima of a Thousand Faces copying Prava for more butt buffing and redundancy to avoid a blowout. Swing with a token army that is now +8/+8. Win?
This is a rough draft that needs a little more than a dozen cuts. Necessary cuts have been made. It's not fancy, and in fact is pretty straight forward and casual, but I like tokens so here we are.
Some thoughts:
- Sakashima of a Thousand Faces' legendary clause is a bit of a sticking point for the deck. Prava of the Steel Legion's toughness buff would almost prefer bant or selesnya colors for cards like Arcades, the Strategist, Assault Formation and Huatli, the Sun's Heart, but the mono G partners don't excite me (except Kodama of the East Tree which can be best utilized in other ways) and Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix or Thrasios, Triton Hero aren't really on theme despite being exceptionally good by themselves. That being the case, I thought Sakashima seemed cool as a way to double up on the turbo toughness buff. But how else to take advantage of the legendary clause?
There aren't a ton of Azorius identity legendary creatures that have huge benefits for a token strategy to the extent that I would like to copy them, though I did include a couple here in Geist of Saint Traft and Lena, Selfless Champion. I could do shenanigans with legendary noncreatures like Parhelion II, The Circle of Loyalty, or Planeswalkers plus various ways to copy them and/or any legendary creatures (Rite of Replication in particular coming to mind), but the problem with leaning into this strategy is it would absolutely require that I prioritize protecting Sakashima to prevent massive blowouts. I don't really like that mini-game, so back to the drawing board.
Call me boring and one-note, but I decided to just revert to the tried and true strategy I use in Kykar, Wind's Fury of spellslinging with mentors on board. I know what I like I guess.
- On to the next sticking point for the deck: High Alert. It's really the only sauce in these colors that makes the Prava meal tasty aside from P/T based board wipes like Dusk // Dawn. The problem? I don't own Enlightened Tutor, Academy Rector, Intuition, etc., so I'm limited to a narrow set of options for reliably drawing/tutoring High Alert or recurring it.
It's not as if the deck must use Prava + HA to win. It can just go wide and beat down with the help of Divine Visitation, Cathars' Crusade, and Anointed Procession effects. I want that to be plan B though, so I'm very open to suggestions as to how I can make High Alert more reliable.
I thought of maybe pivoting to a self-mill strat -- hence Brain Freeze which pairs well with the spell slinging + mentors angle -- that can mill HA and recur it with Sevinne's Reclamation, Not Forgotten, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, etc., but I don't know if it's worth investing more slots than just Brain Freeze for that. Maybe Mirror-Mad Phantasm or Altar of Dementia?
- I don't want to give up on the High Alert approach, because if I do then there's really no point in moving forward with Prava of the Steel Legion in these colors. That said, if I can't make HA itself more reliable, I probably need to up the number of anthems and pump effects in the deck. I threw in Intangible Virtue for the vigilance mostly, but there are several others worth considering, such as Eldrazi Monument, Dictate of Heliod, Felidar Retreat, Force of Virtue, Valor in Akros, etc.
- With regard to cuts and additions:
I'm guessing I could shed some spot removal and several of the weaker go-wide token creating instants/sorceries.
I don't know if it's worth running both Sakashima the Impostor and Spark Double, but they are the only "copy target legendary creature" effects that won't get blown out if Sakashima of a Thousand Faces is removed. Sakashima 1.0 can copy opponents' creatures though, so it probably stays.
Metallurgic Summonings makes good tokens, but is pricey and will rarely be cracked.
Some of the cheap, small draw effects might be worth cutting and be replaced with Mentor of the Meek or some such.
I'm not currently taking advantage of going wide other than Skullclamp and having an abundance of bodies to attack and block with. That's probably not correct even in UW, so I've considered Spawning Pit, Martyr's Cause, Martyr's Bond, etc.
Lots of little angles here. Again, all feedback appreciated.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:30 pm
by Wallycaine
You talk a couple of times about risking a "blow out" if
Sakashima of a Thousand Faces is removed when using other clones. It's worth pointing out that you only risk that if you aren't copying Sakashima themselves. If you've got Sakashima in play as a copy of
Prava of the Steel Legion, and kick
Rite of Replication on your Sakashima!Prava, then you get 5 copies of Sakashima!Prava, all of which have the "the legend rule doesn't apply" clause. So even if your original Sakashima is removed, the copies will ensure that the legend rule doesn't affect you until they're all removed... at which point you don't have any duplicates to worry about! So the only times you need to worry about getting blown out by Sakashima getting removed is if you A) have Sakashima already on board copying something, and B) want to copy a different legendary creature/permanent that's not the one Sakashima is copying. That feels like it will be a rare enough occurrance that it's worth risking occasionally coming up for the bonus of potientially kicking rite for 5 8/40
Prava of the Steel Legion's at basically no risk at all.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:39 pm
by MeowZeDung
Wallycaine wrote: ↑3 years ago
You talk a couple of times about risking a "blow out" if
Sakashima of a Thousand Faces is removed when using other clones. It's worth pointing out that you only risk that if you aren't copying Sakashima themselves. If you've got Sakashima in play as a copy of
Prava of the Steel Legion, and kick
Rite of Replication on your Sakashima!Prava, then you get 5 copies of Sakashima!Prava, all of which have the "the legend rule doesn't apply" clause. So even if your original Sakashima is removed, the copies will ensure that the legend rule doesn't affect you until they're all removed... at which point you don't have any duplicates to worry about! So the only times you need to worry about getting blown out by Sakashima getting removed is if you A) have Sakashima already on board copying something, and B) want to copy a different legendary creature/permanent that's not the one Sakashima is copying. That feels like it will be a rare enough occurrance that it's worth risking occasionally coming up for the bonus of potientially kicking rite for 5 8/40
Prava of the Steel Legion's at basically no risk at all.
Touche. I don't know how I missed this line, it seems obvious now that you spell it out. In that case, it makes sense to drop the first Sakashima as a copy of Prava, then make all other clone effects copy the "fake" Prava with the additional ability stapled on. That being the case, I definitely need to look at
Cackling Counterpart,
Quasiduplicate,
Rite of Replication,
Fated Infatuation, etc.
I've always loved the idea of
Helm of the Host too, but man it's expensive and dangerous to set up and get going.
There might be some play with
Mirage Mirror and/or
Mimic Vat here too.
EDIT: it also just occurred to me that Prava +
Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa might arguably be the more consistent combo for this strategy since you gain
Assault Formation,
Huatli, the Sun's Heart, and
Belligerent Brontodon, plus Sidar has a very relevant line of text for token evasion. That said, I still think I'm way more interested in the possibilities with Sakashima.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:17 pm
by Guardman
Have you considered adding
Twilight Drover? He is probably better in WB or GW tokens, but he is a good way to recoup tokens as they inevitably die.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:34 pm
by MeowZeDung
Guardman wrote: ↑3 years ago
Have you considered adding
Twilight Drover? He is probably better in WB or GW tokens, but he is a good way to recoup tokens as they inevitably die.
3 mana for two 1/1s isn't amazing, even if they are fly guys. More importantly, Drover is easy enough to get rid of and his ability doesn't trigger any of the token engines in the deck. For the same mana I'd rather cast
Call the Coppercoats and trigger
Talrand, Sky Summoner, or for even less mana cast
Servo Exhibition and trigger
Monastery Mentor.
TL;DR, I feel like any creature in the deck needs to either make tokens repeatedly without a significant mana sink or contribute to the mega pump gameplan.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:38 pm
by yeti1069
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:27 am
by MeowZeDung
I almost included it. It's not nearly as fun without
Jeskai Ascendancy to untap all the tokens you convoke it out with though.
There's a good argument to be made suggesting it's better than one of the other asymmetrical wipes here, likely
Solar Tide or
Fell the Mighty. For this rough draft I avoided it just because it would kill off Prava and any of my Sakashima/Prava copies except for ones that are explicitly tokens, like with
Cackling Counterpart. I'm open to being persuaded and will consider it more.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:14 pm
by yeti1069
MeowZeDung wrote: ↑3 years ago
I almost included it. It's not nearly as fun without
Jeskai Ascendancy to untap all the tokens you convoke it out with though.
There's a good argument to be made suggesting it's better than one of the other asymmetrical wipes here, likely
Solar Tide or
Fell the Mighty. For this rough draft I avoided it just because it would kill off Prava and any of my Sakashima/Prava copies except for ones that are explicitly tokens, like with
Cackling Counterpart. I'm open to being persuaded and will consider it more.
My thinking is, first, most of the time, you don't tap tokens to pay the convoke, you tap nontokens that are going to die, then have the tokens free to swing. Second, there are plenty of ways in white to give indestructible, and a few ways to regenerate a creature, so there are some options for saving Prava. In general, though, board wipes are for when you're getting behind, or there is a
must kill boardstate; getting to make it somewhat one-sided is upside. Here, if you have an army of tokens, but lose some buffs, that isn't necessarily that big an impact. Especially if you can convoke this out for 0, or close to it, replay Prava, then swing.
It's just
so good in decks that are predominantly winning with tokens.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:47 pm
by MeowZeDung
yeti1069 wrote: ↑3 years ago
My thinking is, first, most of the time, you don't tap tokens to pay the convoke, you tap nontokens that are going to die, then have the tokens free to swing. Second, there are plenty of ways in white to give indestructible, and a few ways to regenerate a creature, so there are some options for saving Prava. In general, though, board wipes are for when you're getting behind, or there is a
must kill boardstate; getting to make it somewhat one-sided is upside. Here, if you have an army of tokens, but lose some buffs, that isn't necessarily that big an impact. Especially if you can convoke this out for 0, or close to it, replay Prava, then swing.
It's just
so good in decks that are predominantly winning with tokens.
Yep. Like I said, there's a good argument to be made for it. I've defended it in my Kykar list for some time now. You make great points, and I'll probably slot it in over one of the other wipes when I finalize the list of 99 cards.
One other point I've been mulling is the abhorrent lack of haste for tokens without red. Since I'm not saccing the little guys for value here for the most part, this becomes even more of a problem. There is
Crashing Drawbridge, but not having haste itself is a bummer. I don't foresee picking up an
Akroma's Memorial any time soon.
I can mitigate the issue by excluding some of the sorcery speed token creation in favor of instant speed so I have pseudo-haste for my tokens (and Prava/Sakashima don't need to be hasty), but aside from that I probably need to look into indestructibility/protection to guard against board wipes.
Brave the Elements,
Bathe in Light, and
Akroma's Blessing might be worthwhile inclusions, and maybe
Unbreakable Formation,
Rootborn Defenses,
Make a Stand?
Glory is also an option if I opt into the self mill route to help get access to
High Alert.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:29 pm
by MeowZeDung
Alright, I whittled it down to 100 cards and made a lot of the adjustments discussed. Thank you all for the feedback, and I'm definitely open to more. I'm excited to play this one once I get the new cards needed. It's definitely a more casual list, but I think there's some potential for some huge alpha strikes with it and that's always fun.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:36 pm
by Wallycaine
In general, since you're running tokens, I'd lean more on indestructibility than protection. Protection only protects against targetted removal (not a huge deal cause tokens) and red board wipes, which indestructibility already touches on. In addition to
Unbreakable Formation and
Rootborn Defenses, I'd also look at
Flawless Maneuver and
Akroma's Will. You're planning to have at least 1 commander out most of the time, and the upside of either being free or also working as a massive alpha strike card is pretty great.
Edit: Oh, looks like you've already got Flawless Maneuver in there, that's good. I'd still pitch Akroma's Will over Brave the Elements (half your tokens aren't even white!), and it feels like
Rootborn Defenses is better than
Bathe in Light for similar reasons, since you don't have a ton of blue/white creatures to target to hit your whole board. Additionally, I'd look at
Lazotep Plating type effects over protection, since hexproof does most of what you want, and gives you a bonus dude.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:00 pm
by MeowZeDung
Wallycaine wrote: ↑3 years ago
In general, since you're running tokens, I'd lean more on indestructibility than protection. Protection only protects against targetted removal (not a huge deal cause tokens) and red board wipes, which indestructibility already touches on. In addition to
Unbreakable Formation and
Rootborn Defenses, I'd also look at
Flawless Maneuver and
Akroma's Will. You're planning to have at least 1 commander out most of the time, and the upside of either being free or also working as a massive alpha strike card is pretty great.
Edit: Oh, looks like you've already got Flawless Maneuver in there, that's good. I'd still pitch Akroma's Will over Brave the Elements (half your tokens aren't even white!), and it feels like
Rootborn Defenses is better than
Bathe in Light for similar reasons, since you don't have a ton of blue/white creatures to target to hit your whole board. Additionally, I'd look at
Lazotep Plating type effects over protection, since hexproof does most of what you want, and gives you a bonus dude.
Solid points. I went with protection at first because it can be used as a source of evasion on offense as well, but I always forget that protection doesn't work against non-damage based board wipes. Brain fart.
That said, Brave the Elements and Bathe in Light are out, and Rootborn Defenses and Akroma's Will are in.
Akroma's Will is sweet! I hadn't seen that one in the spoilers. Vigilance, Lifelink, Double Strike, Indestructible, and Pro-WUBRG on ALL creatures for 3
is. . . phenomenal.
Lazotep Plating is a great card that I tend to put in most blue decks. Tokens won't be targeted with spot removal though, and I'm already looking at getting around Sakashima/Prava getting zapped with the copycat effects, so I'm not 100% sure it belongs here. It's just sweet utility against stuff like
Bojuka Bog and nasty things that say "target opponent" like
Sen Triplets,
Emrakul, the Promised End, and
Cruel Ultimatum.
So, because of that and I think another copycat effect won't be a bad thing, I'll also swap out
Akroma's Blessing and
Midnight Haunting for
Lazotep Plating and
Mirage Mirror.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:37 pm
by yeti1069
I think Teferi's Protection could be a strong inclusion in place of one of the 3 mana indestructible effects, as the biggest blowout you'd face is something like Cyclonic Rift, or even Evacuation, and there's no real protection against that for tokens other than mass phasing.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:18 pm
by MeowZeDung
yeti1069 wrote: ↑3 years ago
I think Teferi's Protection could be a strong inclusion in place of one of the 3 mana indestructible effects, as the biggest blowout you'd face is something like Cyclonic Rift, or even Evacuation, and there's no real protection against that for tokens other than mass phasing.
I definitely thought of it, but I see the price has barely gone down even with the mystery booster printing, so that's a no go for me.
Teferi's Veil is a nifty way to protect a token army though, and, with the toughness boosts from the commanders, being aggressive shouldn't be an issue. I might squeeze it in eventually.
I would say that
Teferi's Protection is as close to an auto-include in a white token deck as anything if you own a copy.
The other auto-includes for this build (if I owned them) would be
Academy Rector,
Enlightened Tutor, and
Intuition for purposes of getting
High Alert. I think the
Intuition package would probably be
High Alert,
Sevinne's Reclamation, and maybe something like
Estrid's Invocation.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:49 am
by MeowZeDung
I'm embarrassed to realize that I didn't include
Mirrorweave, which is pretty much inexcusable in any Azorius deck for my own personal standards, and doubly so in a token deck for crying out loud. I swapped
Fated Infatuation out to make room for it. Yeesh, I'm slipping.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:19 pm
by duducrash
Shark Typhoon is on the high cmc side but turning everyspell you sling into tokens is great, with built in evasion even.
good call on Mirrorweave. it goes NUTS with
Monastery Mentor
Since you are going very wide I imagine
Lazotep Plating isnt that good, the indestructable package is great and I'd think on adding
Selfless Spirit to it
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:37 pm
by MeowZeDung
duducrash wrote: ↑3 years ago
Shark Typhoon is on the high cmc side but turning everyspell you sling into tokens is great, with built in evasion even.
good call on Mirrorweave. it goes NUTS with
Monastery Mentor
Since you are going very wide I imagine
Lazotep Plating isnt that good, the indestructable package is great and I'd think on adding
Selfless Spirit to it
Shark Typhoon is too expensive for my taste at the moment, but after it rotates out of standard I'll probably grab one. 6 mana for the effect is a lot, but the cycling probably makes it better than
Metallurgic Summonings here.
I've mirrorweaved
Monastery Mentor in kykar a time or two. Tasty, tasty magic right there.
Yeah, I'm not totally sold on
Lazotep Plating here, but it does have surprising utility.
Selfless Spirit is another card I've held off on because of price, but it isn't going to get cheaper so I should probably just pick one up. I think plating for spirit would be a fine swap. Great suggestion, thanks.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:16 pm
by Wallycaine
MeowZeDung wrote: ↑3 years ago
I'm embarrassed to realize that I didn't include
Mirrorweave, which is pretty much inexcusable in any Azorius deck for my own personal standards, and doubly so in a token deck for crying out loud. I swapped
Fated Infatuation out to make room for it. Yeesh, I'm slipping.
...Oh geez, Sakashima!Prava getting mirrorweaved goes very crazy very fast. Definitely worth the add, and has the bonus of not being that great for opponents even if they have tokens, since Prava specifies "on your turn".
Edit: Oops, helps to read the card. No Sakashima shenanigans is less fun, but I'm sure there will be fun things to steal from opponents.
Re: Prava // Sakashima - Azorius Token Butts
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:31 pm
by MeowZeDung
Wallycaine wrote: ↑3 years ago
MeowZeDung wrote: ↑3 years ago
I'm embarrassed to realize that I didn't include
Mirrorweave, which is pretty much inexcusable in any Azorius deck for my own personal standards, and doubly so in a token deck for crying out loud. I swapped
Fated Infatuation out to make room for it. Yeesh, I'm slipping.
...Oh geez, Sakashima!Prava getting mirrorweaved goes very crazy very fast. Definitely worth the add, and has the bonus of not being that great for opponents even if they have tokens, since Prava specifies "on your turn".
Edit: Oops, helps to read the card. No Sakashima shenanigans is less fun, but I'm sure there will be fun things to steal from opponents.
Yeah, no mega pump with weave + commanders, but turning a token army into a
Utvara Hellkite army is something I can get behind.