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Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:05 pm
by Serenade
Ghen, Arcanum Weaver has been revealed. I love enchantress, but I've never played a non-green version. As such, I'm trying to get my hands around what would work in this deck while balancing some great enchantments to feed Ghen. Below are some early ideas. Any help would be appreciated!
Land Tax: Great early game in non-green decks, but I think LT is even more of a superstar in Ghen. You can pull lands into your hand...and discard your bombs like
Overwhelming Splendor or
Painful Quandary to hand size. After your mana base is set, you can turn LT into one of those bombs!
Oath of Lieges: Does this see any play? It's not Land Tax, but given how color-greedy Ghen is, I am wondering if this helps enough in the early game for non-green.
Legion's Landing // Adanto, the First Fort: In a defensive shell, this is a blocker...and possibly nothing else. It's a nice one-drop, though, that I'd be fine feeding to Ghen later.
Treacherous Blessing/
Demonic Lore: Maybe
Necropotence is the better drop here, and maybe they work better with our friend
Blim, Comedic Genius, but they seem nice with Ghen.
Cartouches/Trials: These all seem too small and sparse to be worth an activation, but using
Trial of Ambition over and over would be neat.
Curses: Might be nice to sac
Curse of Bloodletting and tag another opponent with it as a combat trick.
I do intend to go through every enchantment ever, but I have not had the time yet. Probably a lot of ETB effects to abuse. Again, would love to hear any other ideas people have! Thanks!
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:11 pm
by Candlemane
Sagas might be interesting, or things like Unholy Indenture to protect stuff.
Aura of Silence, Seal of Doom could be good. Martyr's Bond, or if you have enchantments that make stuff like Assemble the Legion, something like Impact Tremors or a surprise Dictate of the Twin God's could work.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:29 am
by Treamayne
Rise of the Hobgoblins might work here, both as a sac after casting, and sac to return combat trick.
Gravebreaker Lamia seems a nifty way to get things in the yard to recur.
Possibly
Agent of Erebos for GY hate.
If you go the aura route (since you can get them back), you may consider the Dragon cycle (as sac fodder if using fatties -
Dragon Breath,
Dragon Scales,
Dragon Shadow) and Magemark cycle (
Fencer's Magemark,
Guardian's Magemark,
Necromancer's Magemark)
If you are going more control, possibly
Death Pits of Rath with
Pestilence (and its variants)
If you are playing enough enchantment creatures,
Flameshadow Conjuring (and its variants) would let you use the tokens as your sac fodder
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:00 am
by UnfulfilledDesires
I'm excited to use Ghen with
Parallax Wave. The trick is to activate Wave five times & then sacrifice it while holding priority. This way you exile five creatures & they don't come back. You can cast Ghen on turn three, Wave on turn four, & then do the above during your upkeep with the fading trigger on the stack (assuming you have an enchantment to target in your graveyard).
Wave also combos with
Opalescence &
Starfield of Nyx if you're into that, allowing you blink or permanently exile creatures as many times as you want.
Personally I'm planning to run Wave & Starfield because both synergize with Ghen, but no tutors because I prefer to minimize shuffling in my casual decks whenever convenient. So the combo will only happen rarely & randomly.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 am
by NZB2323
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:19 am
by NZB2323
The sickest move with him I think actually involves
Entomb. Entomb with his ability(and an enchantment to search for) means you can search your library for an enchantment card and put it on the battlefield.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:12 pm
by Dunharrow
What about the enchantments that make everyone discard? Seems good since you can reanimate your enchantments anyway.
Bottomless Pit
Necrogen Mists
Oppression
Thoughtrender Lamia
I also think Sagas can be very good.
The Eldest Reborn ?
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:28 pm
by NZB2323
Athreos, God of Passage kind of makes each enchantment creature fodder.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:54 pm
by Treamayne
NZB2323 wrote: ↑3 years ago
The sickest move with him I think actually involves
Entomb. Entomb with his ability(and an enchantment to search for) means you can search your library for an enchantment card and put it on the battlefield.
If you are not responding to the conversation, is there a reason why you are post-padding rather than editing your previous message? Especially when adding only a single card idea/reference.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:12 pm
by Serenade
Man, I need to build this and try it out. Love the idea of enchantment creatures and the everyone-discard stuff. Are there ways (in enchantments) to double activated abilities? Otherwise I think Rings is an autoinclude.
The new weird card that I like for this deck?
Frenzied Fugue!
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:26 am
by RxPhantom
I think
Sinister Concoction could do a lot of work here. It kills a creature, gives you a discard outlet for other enchantments, and can be recurred by Ghen.
Heat Stroke could also be cool to have going in and out of your graveyard, especially to mess with opponents' combat steps.
I really like this commander, and it's the first one in a long time to really pique my interest.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:51 am
by Crazy Monkey
The sources of fodder that come to mind for me are
Heliod, god of the sun or
Daxos the returned, as an enchantment token generators. Alternatively, self recurring auras such as
glistening oil,
fallen ideal, or
spirit loop. I use those and similar auras with
Ertai, the corrupted as fodder, although I explicitly have an aura subtheme.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:45 pm
by hyalopterouslemur
Sun Titan, ordeals
Something must be said for
Demonic Pact.
You could probably do some inelegant trick with
Animate Dead and blink. Nothing Sun Titan hasn't done.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:30 pm
by 3drinks
There's got to be a deck here with
Enduring Ideal right?
edit: Obligatory shout for
Skybind too.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:57 pm
by toctheyounger
You could get all controlly with stuff like
Darksteel Mutation,
Oubliette and
Martial Impetus.
Deafening Silence has done good work for me elsewhere too.
You could go for self-recurring enchantments -
Fallen Ideal,
Undying Rage and the white one I can't remember the name of, as well as
Dragon Scales,
Dragon Breath and
Dragon Shadow.
Gotta be honest, I'm not 100% sure what the win condition is, but it seems a fun build.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:13 pm
by Ertai Planeswalker
Some offensive aura's will work as well. Even something simple as pacifism. Since he just puts the enchantment on the battlefield the ability won't target meaning you can pacify hexproof creatures.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:57 pm
by Treamayne
Ertai Planeswalker wrote: ↑3 years ago
Some offensive aura's will work as well. Even something simple as pacifism. Since he just puts the enchantment on the battlefield the ability won't target meaning you can pacify hexproof/shroud creatures.
See CR 115.1b and 303.4f
115.1b Aura spells are always targeted. An Aura's target is specified by its enchant keyword ability
(see rule 702.5, "Enchant"). The target is chosen as the spell is cast; see rule 601.2c. An Aura
permanent doesn't target anything; only the spell is targeted. (An activated or triggered ability
of an Aura permanent can also be targeted.)
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by
resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object
or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the
battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant
ability and any other applicable effects.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:11 am
by Ertai Planeswalker
Treamayne wrote: ↑3 years ago
Ertai Planeswalker wrote: ↑3 years ago
Some offensive aura's will work as well. Even something simple as pacifism. Since he just puts the enchantment on the battlefield the ability won't target meaning you can pacify hexproof/shroud creatures.
See CR 115.1b and 303.4f
115.1b Aura spells are always targeted. An Aura's target is specified by its enchant keyword ability
(see rule 702.5, "Enchant"). The target is chosen as the spell is cast; see rule 601.2c. An Aura
permanent doesn't target anything; only the spell is targeted. (An activated or triggered ability
of an Aura permanent can also be targeted.)
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by
resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object
or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the
battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant
ability and any other applicable effects.
I understand, but I believe the caveat here is that if you put it on the battlefield, it's not cast thus doesn't target. That's why it gets around shroud and hexproof which are basically just targeting restrictions. The last part of your second quote just means that the card you put it on must be able to be enchanted by the aura (no enchant land on a creature) and protection for example will still make the target illegal regardless (so no enchanting Black Knight with Pacifism this way).
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:16 am
by 3drinks
Correct, this is how sun tits gets
Prison Term onto the Sigardas of the world. It's an age old loophole of the format.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:43 pm
by Treamayne
Ertai Planeswalker wrote: ↑3 years ago
I understand, but I believe the caveat here is that if you put it on the battlefield, it's not cast thus doesn't target. That's why it gets around shroud and hexproof which are basically just targeting restrictions. The last part of your second quote just means that the card you put it on must be able to be enchanted by the aura (no enchant land on a creature) and protection for example will still make the target illegal regardless (so no enchanting Black Knight with Pacifism this way).
I was not disagreeing with you.
It works,
I was simply providing the CR reference for those who might want to know *why* it works. Especially since, IIRC, pre-10th edition rules (or whenever they removed mana burn) it would not have worked.
Re: Ghen - Enchantment Fodder
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:11 pm
by Ertai Planeswalker
@Treamayne: Sorry I thought you thought it didn't work.