MTGNexus

Commander is a unique format in that players enter with more goals than just winning, which is why, contrary to most other formats, we all aren't just sleeving up the latest cEDH hotness or our own super secret tech to meta against it. Even still, whatever your goals are, winning usually is one of them. Usually. We do see the occasional deck that exists solely to sow chaos and watch stupid stuff happen, or the occasional group hug deck that has no way of winning and just exists to let other decks go off. But what if we look further, to other goals that don't involve winning?

I myself built a deck once whose goal was explicitly not to win, but to draw the game, ideally before anyone lost. I used Vampire Hexmage and Divine intervention to achieve that, but there are a few combos that force a draw due to infinite loops, and some board states can make everyone calling a draw preferable to playing it out.

But I want to talk about something even darker, and yet less likely to piss off the table. I want to talk about setting yourself the goal to lose as quickly and consistently as possible. Obviously 99 basic lands plus something garbage as the commander is always going to lose, so the caveat is you must die by your own hand, or at the very least ensure that you die first, without relying on bluffing.

Rather than post a deck, I'll start with a basic concept based on the lowest hanging fruit, the obvious kill yourself commander, Phage the Untouchable. The specifics don't matter here, so I'll just say any mono black ramp deck that seeks to cast Phage ASAP, and has some control pieces to protect other players from death or stop combos.

So, can we do better? Either by adding other facets to this basic concept to support it, or by going away from Phage and into another strategy that kills itself even faster? How quick can this get?

onering wrote: ↑

4 years ago

[Regarding Phage] So, can we do better? Either by adding other facets to this basic concept to support it, or by going away from Phage and into another strategy that kills itself even faster? How quick can this get?

There's a lot of ways to kill yourself in monoblack; you could play Demonic Consultation. Spoils of the Vault for a card you aren't playing, Ad Nauseam for more than your life total, etc.

You could even play cards that say you lose the game. Like Lich, Demonic Pact or similar.

Don't forget Blood Celebrant .

Considering how trivial this is, it doesn't seem like it'd be any fun after the very first game. And people might be annoyed game 1 too.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Don't forget Blood Celebrant .

Considering how trivial this is, it doesn't seem like it'd be any fun after the very first game. And people might be annoyed game 1 too.

So considering that, I wonder what restrictions there could be to make it a fun challenge, to play and play against. My first thoughts are something ala "No infinite combos", where you either don't run or restrict yourself to reasonable use of any unbounded life payment. The other potential restriction might be nothing that flat out says "you lose the game", forcing you to rely on discrete life payments or damaging yourself, rather than just dropping Lich and wrathing/saccing it. That does mean Phage the Untouchable isn't an option, but I feel like Greven, Predator Captain does a good job of filling in, and lets you expand to mass damage spells that will hurt you just as much as the opponent.

Imo, the time for "alternative goals" is deck building. Once you're playing, your only goal is to win. If you built your deck right, then whatever thing it is you wanted it to do will be your best course towards winning. If it isn't, you screwed up.

I like the idea of a greven deck with tons of life payment and few (or no) healing. That sounds funny. Straight up intentional suicide seems pointless. No one else has a reason to interact with you, so you're just goldfishing with extra steps, no matter what restrictions you put on yourself.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Imo, the time for "alternative goals" is deck building. Once you're playing, your only goal is to win. If you built your deck right, then whatever thing it is you wanted it to do will be your best course towards winning. If it isn't, you screwed up.

I like the idea of a greven deck with tons of life payment and few (or no) healing. That sounds funny. Straight up intentional suicide seems pointless. No one else has a reason to interact with you, so you're just goldfishing with extra steps, no matter what restrictions you put on yourself.

Well, with Greven in particular, the incentive to interact is that in your life payment flailing, you're also creating a monster of an attacker. But I agree, those would definitely be restrictions for deckbuilding. The main reason I mentioned restricting yourself to "reasonable use" is stuff like Fire Covenant, which theoretically can be used to just pay all your life at once, but is more interesting if you restrict yourself to "only enough to kill creatures" or something along those lines.

Anything that has "Pay life:" and no mana associated with the cost.
Adanto Vanguard, Carrion Howler, Deepwood Ghoul, Doom Whisperer, Ethereal Champion, Glorifier of Dusk, Marrow Bats, Martyrs' Tomb, Mischievous Poltergeist, Necropotence, Selenia, Dark Angel, Soul Channeling, Souldrinker, Spatial Binding, Treasonous Ogre, Unspeakable Symbol, Volrath's Dungeon, Wall of Blood, Æther Storm, Cavern Harpy, Crovax, Ascendant Hero, Hibernation Sliver, Kuro, Pitlord, Lurking Evil.

The extra turn cards in red are a certain death Final Fortune, Glorious End, Last Chance, Warrior's Oath, Chance for Glory.

The "Pacts" can mean that its technically possible to lose in your very first upkeep, before you even get to draw (if not going first); Pact of Negation, Pact of the Titan, Slaughter Pact, Summoner's Pact, Intervention Pact.

I would say the most consistent way to lose the quickest is via the Pacts and mulligan until you get one in your starting hand. With the London mulligan you'll have a lot of shots at it. Serum Powder can help out as well.
If you go down to one card without drawing one, then you can simply concede as a backup plan, which is also a fast way to lose the game.

If you wanted a guaranteed loss from the command zone then I think technically Selenia, Dark Angel is the cheapest option. Run lots of artifact mana to cast as quickly as possible.
The only other option that I think could cost less is K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth but it depends on exactly what you have in your hand to lose the life. But its pretty consistent to be able to lose all your life in a single turn if you design the deck that way.

I have a mono-black suicide deck with Vilis, Broker of Blood at the helm that is pretty fun.

I think a better challenge would be a deck engineered to win on <10 life like ol' standard faeries. Doesn't make for an exciting shootout or standoff when someone just blows their own brains out, but it could be cool to kill off everyone else with one hand while holding in the wrecked remnants of your innards with the other.

It's more of a thought experiment than a deck to actually play.

Lots of interesting ideas though. Still unsure if the garaunteed loss of phage with instant lost cards and life payment back up is the most efficient or Selenia is better. The risk with Selenia is getting an odd amount of life. It looks like mardu would have the most options that just insta lose while maintaining consistency, so maybe abandoning the commander as a source of losing is best.

To be honest, I have a rakdos the defiler suicide aggro deck that occasionally kills itself. Sometimes, it's a demonic consultation gone wrong, or a lich that lands too early.
The goal is never to actively lose though; more actively pushing the game forwards. Tempo at the expense of life and cards.