MTGNexus

Last night, with plastic dividers, masks, and plenty of hand sanitizer, I played some Commander for the first time in months. It was awesome, but man I was rusty. I broke out my Merieke Ri Berit deck first, kept what I thought was a keepable seven and started playing. Two turns in, it dawned on me that I forgot how to pilot the deck!

With Merieke in particular, my opening hand must have a way to protect Merieke or a way to tutor one. It's the cardinal rule of the deck. I completely forgot it last night. Luckily, I drew into something, and after a long, long game I managed to become the archenemy and was the first one out.

Anyway, has anyone else ever forgot how to pilot their own deck?

Absolutely. Been through two cycles of this with ephara now. Main reason I picked it up on mtgo during quarantine was to keep the rust off.

This is also why I can't have too many decks. Once I haven't played one for a few months it might as well be greek

I've always referred to my brain's ability to dump stuff I'm not using as aggressive garbage collection. It's eerie sometimes.

I forget how to pilot tstorm823's Zedruu list all the time. But I also sometimes keep not-great hands in other decks because I'm not trying to abuse the Gis mulligan.

If I ever really know how to play a deck, that means it's time to make a new deck.

It happens to me most when I switch archetypes too frequently. I have to commit to a playstyle/mode of thinking for a night, otherwise I screw up my pacing something awful.

Yes, for sure! In the last 3 years, I went from playing magic weekly to 6-7 times per year. Just have no time. I probably play less than 10 commander games per year now!

I also have 18 commander decks.

So yeah, I would definitely say I lose memory of how things work.

The other night with Elsha, I completely forgot that I can try to win at instant speed on anyone's turn. I had Elsha out, Mana Drain on top, opponent casts obliterate..... I completely forgot I can cast Mana Drain and counter nothing, and go digging to see if I can get my win.

No question that this has happened to me. Switching decks is tough because playstyle memory is like muscle memory.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

If I ever really know how to play a deck, that means it's time to make a new deck.

I can't go with you on that. If it becomes clear that I don't enjoy a deck, it's gone, but getting to know the ins and outs of a deck, having it improve with time, improving it as improve as a player...that's what keeps me in the format.

TheAmericanSpirit wrote: ↑

4 years ago

It happens to me most when I switch archetypes too frequently. I have to commit to a playstyle/mode of thinking for a night, otherwise I screw up my pacing something awful.

I managed to navigate this pretty well last night. After Merieke control I played mono-Green stomps and Grixis death trigger tribal. I actually had to give a quick scan through the Grixis one to remember all the lines of play available.

void_nothing wrote: ↑

4 years ago

No question that this has happened to me. Switching decks is tough because playstyle memory is like muscle memory.

I'm finding that to be true as well. Months of quarantine did me no favors here.

Yeah, this has definitely happened to me. I had half my decks in storage for a few months, and coming back to them was a bit clunky - either forgetting some card text on cards or just forgetting what's in the deck when I play a tutor. Usually doesn't take more than a few games to remember how to pilot, but it's still annoying. Relearning all my decks when I can play in paper again is going to be an interesting experience.

Absolutely. It's happened most notably with my Nissa primer. It's a relatively blank canvas that can be painted however you like. So with changes in the past I've been overzealous with adds and found myself well outside of what I'm capable of piloting. Sometimes you really have to pore over the deck and rein in your strategies.

Other than that, as hard as it is to admit, I probably do have too many decks. There, I said it. I feel better now.

I have on and off been playing a little on the side both in person and over the internet. Some of my newer decks I created before this all started kind of have fallen off my radar but lots of my long run decks are still great.

RxPhantom wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I can't go with you on that. If it becomes clear that I don't enjoy a deck, it's gone, but getting to know the ins and outs of a deck, having it improve with time, improving it as improve as a player...that's what keeps me in the format.

Limited is the format I play competitively, and I think that dictates a lot about how I play commander. I consider myself a good all-around magic player, someone who can make good decisions in new contexts, but not someone who memorizes a constructed metagame or how to play one specific deck. I also consider magic a biathlon between building and playing (again, limited influence) so by the time I finish building a deck, I usually have a good idea of how it's going to play out, what its plan is. I usually do well borrowing decks or even playing precons, in fact my winrate is still quite high in that context.

But I generally don't have much interest in really perfecting a single deck. My philosophy on learning in general is that, if it seems like you're getting good at something, switch something up to make it harder. For example, I'm learning to play an instrument, and starting to plateau a bit. So now I'm trying to sing along with the music as well, which adds a whole new multitasking component (and also I'm terrible at singing). When I go back to just playing, it seems so much simpler. So when I play magic, I like to constantly throw myself curveballs to see if I can still play well under novel circumstances.

Of course, there are a few decks I keep around. Zirilan is mostly a legacy hire, he's been around for a long time. But what I like so much about Phelddagrif and Kaervek is that despite having a pretty focused plan at this point, they both depend heavily on what my opponents are doing. Goldfishing these decks is a total waste of time. That's what makes those decks special to me, they create novel circumstances on their own. Constantly finding new situations to explore strategically, forcing myself to adapt...that's what keeps me in the format. Once I've learned the new thing, it's time for another lesson.

I constantly look at my own threads to remind me whats what lol. Its actually part of the reason I create them, as it helps to give me a written copy of concepts and it can be months in between playing certain decks.

It also helps to highlight just how hard it must be for other people to pick up decks in my threads and pilot them the way I intended, as I personal can struggle with the concepts, even though I've created them. Magic is hard.

@DirkGently I think there's an argument for commiting to the mastery of a deck. Most edh decks are vastly complex and players are more likely to get bored with deck before they've actually explored the full extent of its potential/nuance. By contrast, people who marry themselves to their decks usually are end up producing the breakthroughs that can reinvigorate and sustain development long after the hype train has left for other stations (looking at you, primer people).

I'm not saying the pursuit of variety isn't a valid learning method, but devotion of focus also yields plenty.

That all being said, I'd blow too much money if I let my EDHD run wild. I'm trying to build a permanent roster right now; once limited play returns, I'll get my build/destroy fix there.

Edit: spelling

@TheAmericanSpirit I don't disagree, I think there's knowledge to be gained via both paths. I do keep a primer for phelddagrif and that can be rewarding in another way. I think there's more meat on the bones of the constant build/play/repeat cycle than focusing on specific decks, but maybe that's just my bias.

I think a lot of people conceive of magic as a practice of mastering individual decks, rather than developing a strong holistic understanding of the game, though. And I find that a very narrow and unsatisfying way to think about the game.

I think the only deck I haven't forgotten how to pilot is Kaalia [of the Vast; Zenith Seeker never existed long enough to learn an optimal strategy]. But, I also think that, unless you play the same deck on the weekly, this is a normal part of our experience as a player. Even Burn decks, tbh, yeah you have the basic idea of "count to 21" but then you have the myriad of how to sideboard options like "how do I know if I want ravenous trap or faerie macabre" "do I play goblin guide or vexing devil?" and the key sequence of plays such as "always lead with chain lightning (or sorcery speed burn)" turn a simple-on-paper deck into one that requires practice to become truly proficient with.

It's been said before, and it's worth repeating; Magic can be learned in an hour, but mastered in a lifetime.

Yes but no.
I mean I have forgotten how to pilot old decks I use to run, but my current decks are primarily "turn sideways" so not really hard to remember.

For me it's more of 'I didn't remember I had this card in here', followed by 'WHY do I have this card in here?'

Though I do occasionally forget how to pilot my piles too.

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I forget how to pilot tstorm823's Zedruu list all the time.

I goldfish that deck semi-frequently (if I've got something on tv that doesn't require much visual attention) when I'm regularly playing Magic. The first game since pandemic started was pretty bad. I won, but it was a really clunky experience. That game took a solid 15 minutes extra I wouldn't have needed if I wasn't so rusty.

I didn't necessarily forget, but I did get cocky with The Gitrog Monster and kept a hand of Cultivate plus three lands. I figured that set up a perfect turn 4 Gitrog and with like 43 lands in the deck, surely I'd draw into lands right?

Nope.

I did, eventually, draw into a Wooded Foothills plus Ramunap Excavator and start the value train, but it was too slow and too awkward and Varina had the table on a Gravepact lock so I died - although at least I got a turn of drawing a ton of cards and I smashed Ghave real good with my Pathbreaker Ibex.

I forgot my rule with Gitrog is "5+ ramp, draw, or land cards in hand" and paid the price.

Hawk wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I didn't necessarily forget, but I did get cocky with The Gitrog Monster and kept a hand of Cultivate plus three lands.

Not sure I follow; with this hand you had the necessary stuff to get to 5 lands, didn't you?

Magiqmaster wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Hawk wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I didn't necessarily forget, but I did get cocky with The Gitrog Monster and kept a hand of Cultivate plus three lands.

Not sure I follow; with this hand you had the necessary stuff to get to 5 lands, didn't you?

I did, but the thing about Gitrog (especially my landfall and dredge-heavy, combo-lite version of Gitrog) is that if you run out Gitrog on five lands with no lands in hand (or even just one land in hand sometimes), you can end up in a bad spot real fast if you fail to draw a ton of lands on the next upkeep, and can start stone raining yourself to death (or be forced to sac Gitrog and pay taxes later which is a crushing tempo loss). With just a land drawn every turn, you are now stuck on five mana. Failing to find lands is disaster itself.

I should know that, without a ton of ramp or draw or ideally and especially a Life from the Loam or Ramunap Excavator in the opener, I should mulligan to find it especially since my playgroup does partial mulligans. Instead, I autopiloted "hey, 3 lands + Cultivate is a turn 4 Commander!". I realized my mistake and didn't run him out turn 4, instead just sorta turtling up with Stinkweed Imp (which, rudely, no one would kill for me) and a few bodies, and it made me a few turns too slow to make a real go of it versus Varina.