MTGNexus

Mookie wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Bazaar of Baghdad is an interesting card. On one hand, it's a land that doesn't produce mana, and instead taps to produce card disadvantage. On the other hand, it taps to draw two cards, which is sort of absurd. If your deck wants to throw cards in the graveyard or you have ways to recoup the card disadvantage (such as Rielle, the Everwise or Teferi's Ageless Insight), then it lets you churn through your deck at absurd rates.

It's banned in Legacy, and a staple in Vintage dredge decks. In EDH, I find it a bit more suspect - there aren't as many all-in graveyard decks in the format. Still, it is doing broken things.... but is that better than running something like Desolate Lighthouse or Geier Reach Sanitarium? Hard to say. Still, if you have a commander like Muldrotha, the Gravetide that likes to play out of the graveyard, it's worth consideration.

....of course, at its cost, it's pretty hard to justify including over just building multiple new decks. Magus of the Bazaar is a budget replacement (albeit significantly weaker), but as a creature, it's also somewhat slower and more vulnerable.

Bazaar Trademage is another budget replacement. He was great for me in draft. I don't know how good he'd be in EDH, but there are plenty of commanders that work well with ETB creatures, from Roon of the Hidden Realm to Chulane, Teller of Tales.

Rielle, the Everwise might be the best commander for Bazaar of Baghdad.

Tuesday, April 13th, 2021; Bontu's Last Reckoning

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Tuesday, April 13th, 2021; Bontu's Last Reckoning

I want to like this card, I really do. Maybe Beledros Witherbloom can make better use of it? Relying on hitting your Seedborn Muse or Wilderness Reclamation to make this passable just isn't consistent enough for me.

I encountered this in a Spelltable game this weekend. It was the first time I've seen it cast in play. It did what it needed to do.

It's a wrath with an unusually cheap casting cost, but with the drawback, I can't imagine playing it over other options, including (obviously ) Damnation. I can see its usefulness in budget builds, but that's not really a component of how I build my decks.

My issue with it is that the cost is much higher than 3.
It costs you 3 mana this turn and 3 mana next turn.
But wait.
if you have 5 lands in play, you can cast this and not use your two mana until next turn. This means the cost is 3+3+2 because you in essence used those lands for the turn by BLR stopping you from getting mana from them. But if you do use your two extra lands, that means you can't use them next turn, which also leads to 3+3+2.
So it is a 6 mana spell over two turns + whatever amount of other lands you control. That means it costs more as the game goes on.

Of course, it is over two turns and you can choose to use your extra mana this turn or next turn, so there is some modality in there.
And also the up front cost is 3 so if you are restricted on mana it can still be used.
But these small pros do not make up for the huge negative, in my opinion.

So unless my deck has Sword of Feast and Famine and Bear Umbra and Seedborn Muse and Wilderness Reclamation and more, I don't see myself ever playing this card.

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

3 years ago

My issue with it is that the cost is much higher than 3.
It costs you 3 mana this turn and 3 mana next turn.
But wait.
if you have 5 lands in play, you can cast this and not use your two mana until next turn. This means the cost is 3+3+2 because you in essence used those lands for the turn by BLR stopping you from getting mana from them. But if you do use your two extra lands, that means you can't use them next turn, which also leads to 3+3+2.
So it is a 6 mana spell over two turns + whatever amount of other lands you control. That means it costs more as the game goes on.

Of course, it is over two turns and you can choose to use your extra mana this turn or next turn, so there is some modality in there.
And also the up front cost is 3 so if you are restricted on mana it can still be used.
But these small pros do not make up for the huge negative, in my opinion.

So unless my deck has Sword of Feast and Famine and Bear Umbra and Seedborn Muse and Wilderness Reclamation and more, I don't see myself ever playing this card.

For some contrast, it's typically a very efficient damnation when cast with rocks, which would make it favourable in non-g decks where your ramp mana is coming from rocks and treasures.

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

3 years ago

My issue with it is that the cost is much higher than 3.
It costs you 3 mana this turn and 3 mana next turn.
But wait.
if you have 5 lands in play, you can cast this and not use your two mana until next turn. This means the cost is 3+3+2 because you in essence used those lands for the turn by BLR stopping you from getting mana from them. But if you do use your two extra lands, that means you can't use them next turn, which also leads to 3+3+2.
So it is a 6 mana spell over two turns + whatever amount of other lands you control. That means it costs more as the game goes on.

Of course, it is over two turns and you can choose to use your extra mana this turn or next turn, so there is some modality in there.
And also the up front cost is 3 so if you are restricted on mana it can still be used.
But these small pros do not make up for the huge negative, in my opinion.

So unless my deck has Sword of Feast and Famine and Bear Umbra and Seedborn Muse and Wilderness Reclamation and more, I don't see myself ever playing this card.

For some contrast, it's typically a very efficient damnation when cast with rocks, which would make it favourable in non-g decks where your ramp mana is coming from rocks and treasures.

Let's say you have 4 lands, Arcane Signet and Coalition Relic in play. Casting BLR still costs you 7 mana over two turns (3+3+1). Even if you are able to untap the next turn and have 3 mana from your rocks, it is still a lot less than you would have had.

It never costs 3, except after Armageddon when you cast it with mana rocks.
Crux of Fate is better.
Even 6 mana wraths might be better.

Bontu's Last Reckoning: I was excited when it was spoiled. I played it once, and never again.

Tuesday, April 13th, 2021; Bontu's Last Reckoning

It's pretty bad. It basically costs at least 6 (but probably more), and the only real upside is that you can play it turn 3 (or turn 2 with Goth Elves or Birds of Paradise). Even in a hyper aggressive meta, I'd rather play some Infest variant. Between Toxic Deluge, and Dead of Winter, it'd be pretty hard to justify playing this unless you're on a budget.

It'd be different if it had a unique or near-unique effect. I'm willing to play Oketra's Last Mercy in a lifegain deck with Sanguine Bond or Vito, or Kefnet's Last Word as a catch-all card to answer indestructible stuff, but, not a vanilla 'destroy all creatures'.

Yeah, a big part of the problem is that the usual selling point in this format of "cheaper than usual wrath" is that you can cast stuff after it. Bontu's... punishes you for that if you don't have *very* specific tech. It punishes you *less* if you've got mana rocks, but it's still punishing because you presumably also have lands. So unless you have a very specific need for a 2nd 3 mana wrath effect to run out the gate as soon as you hit 3 mana, it's almost certainly not worth it. Beledros Witherbloom, I can sorta see the argument for, because then at least you're guaranteed to have access to the very specific tech in your command zone.

This entire cycle sucks. This is the worst, because you can't even leverage most of the things that untap all your lands because they are creatures or require creatures, and this destroys all creatures. At least all of the others can leverage those effects better.

I wonder which one of these sucks the least.

Rhonas's has the lowest impact, making it the least worthwhile generally, but its green so it has easiest access to all the things that untap all your lands, including the green Patron that cares about snakes, and this makes a snake. It might actually be worth it in a Patron of the Orochi deck, just because mono green might be scraping for playable snakes. I can't imagine it does enough elsewhere, a even 5/4 with no drawbacks for GG has limited appeal in this format.

Oketra's resets your life total. Life gain usually sucks, but this one might actually be the best because of combo potential. Not untapping doesn't matter if you don't plan to need lands next turn. There are plenty of ways to abuse it with life gain matters effects, but dropping good ol Felidar Sovereign and then next turn casting this and leaving open mana for counters and Teferi's Protection, or setting up some sort of pillow fort that can't be torn down, seems like the best bet. A janky combo you can't get mad at.

Kefnet's competes with superior options and loses. its flexibility isn't worth it.

Hazoret's at least can go mana positive, even considering that you can't untap lands the next turn. It requires a lot of setup though, stacking the top of your library with 4-5 cmc cards so that the total cmc of what gets cast exceeds 12. Doesn't seem worth the effort.

The value of these do go up significantly in decks that seek to basically not give a crap about lands, and leverage mana dorks and rocks for most, if not all of their mana, including blasting off Armageddon as part of their game plan. Again, this leaves out Bontu's for the most part, because these decks generally want mana dorks and Bontu's kills them. This cycle really wants an Erhmangeddon style deck to work.

Thia is a trap. You so want it to be good, but there are certain cards that become worthless with this downside. Namely wraths and extra turns.

Long ago (on Salvation, I think) someone mentioned using Kefnet's in a Thada Adel deck because it ends up with so much artifact mana (from stealing Sol Rings and whatnot) that the lands part didn't hurt.

The drawback on these is too big for me.

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Namely wraths and extra turns.

Eh. Some people say Savor the Moment is just blue Explore.

Given this card's "hidden cost" of major echo, it was one I was really excited about that hasn't panned out. That surprises me, as mono-black's best wraths are also extremely unfriendly to budgets (Toxic Deluge and Damnation are almost the cost of a budget commander deck these days, even after multiple reprints). Dead of Winter is more friendly, but demands a budget-unfriendly manabase (although it's more feasible post-Kaldheim if you're willing to eschew the Scrying Sheets).

But because this is effectively 6+ mana, it's not competing with those efficient, powerful wraths - it's competing with stuff like Crux of Fate, Life's Finale, Black Sun's Zenith, etc. It's pretty rare to actually need a Wrath on turn 3 in EDH, and this gets worse and worse as the game drags on. I could see it being good in a very artifact-heavy deck but even then...I think of something like Armix, Filigree Thrasher + <some non-green artifact partner like Silas Renn, Seeker Adept or Rebbec, Architect of Ascension, and I think to myself would they want this, or would they want to break some symmetry with a different boardwipe in their additional colors?

I play Bontu's Last Reckoning in Kess. I only got to play with Kess once because of ol 'rona. But my LGS is absolutelly FILLED with orcs, elves and *specially* Najeela, the Blade-Blossom , she is way too rampant. I don't regret but would totally upgrade

Bontu's Last Reckoning, like the rest of its cycle, is in a bit of an awkward spot. You get an effect for cheap, but you skip your next untap step, which is somewhat similar to the Pact cycle (Pact of Negation, etc). This is good if you don't expect the game to last another turn... but otherwise, you take a pretty big tempo hit. Bontu's Last Reckoning in particular results in a boardstate which is unlikely to end the game quickly - board wipes tend to prolong the game, not end it. I suppose it's possible for you to make use of the cheaper-than-normal board wipe to quickly rebuild.... but given that you're only paying one less mana than Damnation (and it's not cheaper at all than board wipes like Toxic Deluge and Dead of Winter), the extra tempo from a slightly cheaper spell is massively outweighed by missing a full turn of mana.

As for the rest of the cycle... yeah, none of them are great. Kefnet's Last Word isn't that much better than Control Magic, Oketra's Last Mercy is just lifegain, Rhonas's Last Stand is underwhelming... and Hazoret's Undying Fury is an incredibly limited Mind's Desire. It's probably still the best of the bunch though.

If you want a budget black board wipe that you can cast for 3 or less mana, I like Massacre, drown in sorrow, and Virtue's Ruin more.

Sinis wrote: ↑

3 years ago

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Namely wraths and extra turns.

Eh. Some people say Savor the Moment is just blue Explore.

Well, the bigger problem is that what makes extra turns good is going infinite. Fun fact: When I did my list of the top 10 most overrated EDH cards, I put two extra turn cards on there. Savor the Moment wasn't on the list. It would be Lighthouse Chronologist and Time Stretch.

This wasn't on the list, since the hype had already faded plus I still like it in the very specific circumstance of "I'm playing Winter Orb and friends."

I actually had this cast against me yesterday. It cost 3+9 non-untapped lands which pretty brutal for him. I can definitely see it in a hyper fast metagame against glass cannon builds where you just want a ton of sweepers. Outside of that the drawback is just so massive.

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Well, the bigger problem is that what makes extra turns good is going infinite.

I don't disagree. I only rarely go infinite turns. My extra turn spells are usually ones like Temporal Mastery that exile themselves.

Wednesday, April 14th, 2021; Forsake the Worldly



A totally reasonable powerhouse spell that's never actually dead. 100% of the time, it's correct to slot it into any XW deck, every time. You literally don't have any excuses not to. Don't @ me.

NZB2323 wrote: ↑

3 years ago

If you want a budget black board wipe that you can cast for 3 or less mana, I like Massacre, drown in sorrow, and Virtue's Ruin more.

I prefer Perish (because our autocard feature doesn't think Perish is a card) / Nature's Ruin to Virtue's Ruin, but Massacre slaps! More people should play it and utterly blowout that guy wto which accelerated off their Birds of Paradise|sum and thought they got ahead.

I usually don't get to the point where I will play 3 cmc artifact/enchantment removal; I get to Generous Gift and then stop even in mono white. But I could see this being obviously exceptional in cycling theme and pretty good in a deck that really cares about enchantments/artifacts like a reanimator shell.

Yup, a powerhouse in my Zur the Enchanter cycling deck!