Re: Zedruu the Greatest of All Time
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:46 am
That sounds like this deck.samanater456 wrote: ↑1 year agoJust using it on the explosive turns really. Luck is heavily involved obviously
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That sounds like this deck.samanater456 wrote: ↑1 year agoJust using it on the explosive turns really. Luck is heavily involved obviously
Jewel fizzling on its own has happened to me before. Jewel fizzling with Kitten on the table is something that I never encountered (and I do tend to have them both out pretty often), but I do have a lower mana curve and more mana rocks in my list (yes, including Sol Ring) so the chance of drawing a nonland card with cmc 3 or less is higher.tstorm823 wrote: ↑1 year agoTime Spiral feels a lot like that right now. It's a big explosive draw spell, but also a mana ritual most of the times I play it, and I feel like it's gonna take two changes to even approach replacing the power of this card. I tried Echo of Eons, and I really liked it with both Mirror of Fate and Mind Over Matter, but it doesn't kick-start a mega turn on its own like Time Spiral. I tried out Coveted Jewel, and I really like that one two, but even with Displacer Kitten down, fizzling out is actually like a 50% chance, and then someone takes the Jewel. It's a lot fairer in reality than it was in my mind. Neither let me play out the cards I'm drawing.
The only single card I've ever tried out in this deck that even approximates what Time Spiral does, drawing a pile of cards and letting you cast them, is Aminatou's Augury. But what I like about Echo and Jewel is that they are technical cards with piles of subtle interactions. Echo can discard to Firestorm or Jeskai Ascendancy or even hand size, and loop with Mirror of Fate. Jewel flickers with Kitten or Venser or Venser, can be donated away to draw 3 cards again, or protected from itself with stifle. Aminitou's Augury is not a precision tool, it is a blunt, heavy sledgehammer, and the only card interactions to mention with it is copying it and doing it over again.
I have 27 non-creature spells at 3 cmc or less, but Narset's Reversal and Stifle require a target, and 5 others are multicolored, leaving 20 hits that Jewel can pay for alone, which hypergeometrically has my chances of chaining go down reasonably fast each iteration. If I had 30 hits instead, it would be much closer to definite chain. In my limited testing, if I have Leave // Chance in hand with Kitten and Jewel, the game ends with near absolute certainty. Without that, I've fizzled 2 to 3 triggers in as often as not.Sefir wrote: ↑1 year agoJewel fizzling on its own has happened to me before. Jewel fizzling with Kitten on the table is something that I never encountered (and I do tend to have them both out pretty often), but I do have a lower mana curve and more mana rocks in my list (yes, including Sol Ring) so the chance of drawing a nonland card with cmc 3 or less is higher.
I have played with Aminatou's Augury before in my list. It was a very, very powerful spell that I took out exactly because it was that powerful. It felt like a Mind's Desire without the need for storm. I agree that both Echo and Jewel are more fun and synergistic options.
What about Emergency Powers? Can be played at instant speed, can put something big from our hand in play if played as a sorcery. Exiles itself but we can't have it all. Never played with the card but it has potential.
Angel's Grace is one of the cards that are really love. It is one of the cards that constntly gets the in and out treatment in my lists but I have a soft spot for it and is really my 101 card right now. Not dying from overdrawing was one of the first things I learned wiht it, both with milling everyone with Turnabout infinite+Mikokoro, Center of the Sea and, most recently, comboing with Displacer Kitten+Coveted Jewel infinites that in my list have infinite draw combos but not infinite mana (I don't run Gilded Lotus). In time, Angel's Grace had its own infinite with Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch, a clone and Chance for Glory. Provides Split Second for the Eye of the Storm triggers too. Finally it works, not only with Chance for Glory, but also the other extra turn spell I recently came to favor, Alchemist's Gambit.tstorm823 wrote: ↑1 year agoIn my testing of various things, I am playing with Angel's Grace to go with Chance for Glory......
I can equally imagine myself taking advantage of Chance for Glory with Sea Gate Restoration, as copying that spell a couple times can lead to overdraw pretty fast.
I knew it was at least fine, I've tried it in this deck before, though I don't think it ever made the first post on either site. One of the many cards I've casually entertained over the years. I only gave Stifle the nod over it because I wanted something that could theoretically combo with Rootha, Mercurial Artist. And I'm glad that I did, Stifle is an insanely powerful card in this format dominated by creatures with triggers, it often feels like 1-mana Counterspell, on top of the several proactive uses I've got for it. I've currently got Stifle, Thespian's Stage, Unbender Tine, Catch // Release, and 4 multi-faced cards with lands on the back that I can recur, bounce lands have never felt stronger for me than right now.
When you put it that way, you can also use Saheeli, Sublime Artificer in the Mirage Mirror slot, and suddenly the only part I'm missing is the Manta. Which also synergizes with Stifle, Chance for Glory, and Mirrorweave... I should probably stop thinking about it before I do something dumb.EDIT: Last night I had my first win with the Wormfang Manta+Mirage Mirror+Lore Drakkis+Leave // Chance combo. It was glorious.
I'm working on an update to the front. I'll be stealing some of this analysis.ihatemaryfisher wrote: ↑1 year agoIt also does something very powerful, and unique: it allows comboing through punishment effects. My biggest weakness tends to be group slug decks, because they're difficult to manipulate to my advantage—they dish out damage indiscriminately. Usually it takes several cards (from multiple players) to remove their punishment pieces. But Angel's Grace is a single card that lets us act with impunity to win: it alone can let us combo through Sheoldred, the Apocalypse, Manabarbs, and Painful Quandary. In this way, Angel's Grace does the job of several removal cards.
Call me whatever you like, but having the 2CMC cost Arcane Signet on top of the 0CMC Chrome Mox in your list is making me unconfortable. Can we fix this? I like the list a lot though, it seems very fun list to play with!!
Ok, Urinator.
Fixed!but having the 2CMC cost Arcane Signet on top of the 0CMC Chrome Mox in your list is making me unconfortable. Can we fix this? I like the list a lot though, it seems very fun list to play with!!![]()
Chance for Glory won me over that hard, honestly. I cut Savor the Moment to add Angel's Grace, and regret nothing.So, no second extra time spell apart from Chance for Glory? Thinking about going that route as well, expecially now that the Eye of the Storm is out of my list....
I haven't even really given much thought to revisiting draw doublers, to be honest. I have no idea if they're safe or not. I'd probably lean toward Thought Reflection so I can call Thought Reflection + Opalescence + Mirrorweave + Angel's Grace + Temporal Cascade a win condition. I'll always have a soft spot for Paradox Haze, but there just isn't space for it if all it helps is Zedruu and Walking Archive. And I've got Sphinx of the Second Sun giving me bonus upkeeps anyway.Also surprised there is no Paradox Haze (or Alhammarret's Archive as option no2) though you wanted to increase Zedruu's draw power. Also no Plaza of Heroes?
To be fair, I moved this card to a new home that needed it more. Also, there used to be like 2 combos here that made infinite storm, and now there are like 12, and some involve returning multiple cards to hand. My shiny Mindmoil now lives in a deck where I don't play it and immediately start thinking of ways to kill it, lol. (Also, it's in a Jund deck, where I consider it the de facto 3rd member of Recycle and Null Profusion.)EDIT: Goodbye Mindmoil.....![]()
That certainly works if you want to go for that. The downsides here are both the floor and the ceiling on Liquimetal Coating, where the floor is doing less than nothing (not even necessarily safe to give away) and the ceiling is repeatable stone rain. Liquimetal Torque has a much higher floor as a mana rock and gracefully dodges the land killing possibility.Eponymous wrote: ↑1 year agoIn regards to the previous conversation of adding Tawnos, Urza's Apprentice, and Liquimetal Torque, Torque doesn't work for it, but Liquimetal Coating gives infinite turns with Magosi, the Waterveil, Tawnos, and Unbender Tine
Start with Magosi on the Field, untapped.
Turn it into an Artifact with Liquimetal Coating
Tap it and skip your next turn for an Eon Counter
Untap Magosi with Unbender Tine
Tap Magosi for the extra turn, copying the ability with Tawnos for a net 1 turn
Re play magosi as your land for turn
The first one I immediately thought was the infinite Roothas as well, that was the easy one.tstorm823 wrote: ↑1 year agoGroup question: how many 4 card combos can we find in this deck with Cadric, Soul Kindler? For the purposes of this, assume nothing specific is cut to include him.
I've got a few that I've found. The first is that Rootha, Mercurial Artist + Vedalken Orrery + Turnabout can use him as the 4th piece to make infinite hasty Roothas. This could obviously also be done with Leyline of Anticipation in place of Orrery, but even also with Electrodominance, as Rootha can copy Electrodominance and the copy can recast Rootha, then Cadric makes a second Rootha to copy Turnabout each iteration. You don't get infinite hasty Rootha's, but you do get infinite direct burn from the electrodominance copies, so that's just as good.
I think this is what I underestimated about Cadric most when it was originally spoiled. I already have two token copy makers before even using his trigger. Being able to just Replication Technique and keep 3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is nothing to scoff at.
Sakashima can also turn nonlegendary creatures into legendary creatures that can be double with Cadric, I can't find a 4 card combo with it thoughtstorm823 wrote: ↑1 year ago.The other connections I haven't found loops for yet are Saheeli, Sublime Artificer, Sakashima the Impostor, Displacer Kitten, and Relic of Legends. Kitten could repeatedly trigger Cadric, Relic can let the legends pay for their own copies, and Sakashima/Saheeli can make copies of Cadric himself. I want to believe somewhere in that mess there is a deterministic loop to be found, but I haven't put it together yet.
The closest I got this way from the current list is with Opalescence and Detention Sphere doing the Sakashima the Impostor dance, but it would take Cadric, Soul Kindler and something like Relic of Legends to go actually infinite. That being said, dropping a hasty Inferno Titan clone for 1 extra mana is probably worth being happy about.
That is interesting, though I'm inclined to take it as an overall positive. It's definitely more intuitive a rule than "imaginary cards can't transform, we can't even imagine that." And if I do try to include Cadric, Soul Kindler, maybe someday I'll Replication Technique the front side of Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun with the intention of flipping all 3.Sefir wrote: ↑1 year agoHere is something interesting:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/featu ... ease-notes
Things like Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun+Replication Technique+Mind Over Matter+Alhammarret's Archive are gone.
That will still work the same. The flip condition on Golden Guardian // Gold-Forge Garrison involves leaving and returning to the battlefield, so when it returns it is a new object and remembers nothing of what Saheeli, Sublime Artificer did.Sefir wrote: ↑1 year agoDoes that mean that, Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun+Golden Guardian // Gold-Forge Garrison+ Saheeli, Sublime Artificer will not resolve into a flipped Sanctum of the Sun.? Or, more accurately, will it resolve into a flipped Sanctum of the Sun that until eot will be a Gold-Forge Garrison instead?