MTGNexus

Arebennian wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Nah. Card is a trap.

You're never really doubling your mana, as you have to tap the land to create the treasure. You'll get as many treasures as you have lands. It sort of stores mana for you: it doesn't really double it.

So it's tap out for 6 treasures (if you have 6 lands out) to play out the Bootlegger's Stash. Then, next turn, you untap and then tapout for 6 treasures, which you could have just tapped your lands for anyway. That is two turns to end up exactly where you were. It is only the turn later, on the third turn, when you have doubled your mana.

It's much less a Mirari's Wake than it is an Upwelling or a Horizon Stone.

Some people might find any opportunity for extra treasure token is a good thing for Time Sieve.

As a baseline, I think Bootleggers' Stash is... fine. Kruphix, God of Horizons already does something similar (preserving your mana across turns), while also being significantly harder to kill. Upwelling and Horizon Stone also exist. There are certainly spells that benefit from having piles of extra mana - big X spells like Genesis Wave and Villainous Wealth come to mind - but if you're skipping a turn to cast two spells on the next turn, you aren't really gaining anything.

Where Bootleggers' Stash becomes interesting is when you have additional artifact/treasure synergies - it's pretty crazy alongside stuff like Inspiring Statuary, Korvold, Fae-Cursed King, and Parallel Lives.... or you could turn it into a win condition with Marionette Master or Mayhem Devil.

You can probably add Chatterfang, Squirrel General to that list.

So yes, it definitely can get broken, but it is definitely not an auto include. Nice call out on the token doublers.

I'm sure this detail was part of the art direction, but everything is so dark in this set/Commander set. This plane has SO MUCH SHADOW. Like that first Xmen trilogy. Again, I understand why, but it's a big turnoff for me. I don't even want to look at the text underneath the black hole at the top of the card.

Sinister Concierge is so freaking cool. I wish I could think of a good way to abuse it in Phelddagrif. Between it and Mysterious Limousine, Stifle effects have gotten a big boost. I guess that's why Broker's confluence costs 5...

Mookie wrote: ↑

2 years ago

As a baseline, I think Bootleggers' Stash is... fine. Kruphix, God of Horizons already does something similar (preserving your mana across turns), while also being significantly harder to kill. Upwelling and Horizon Stone also exist. There are certainly spells that benefit from having piles of extra mana - big X spells like Genesis Wave and Villainous Wealth come to mind - but if you're skipping a turn to cast two spells on the next turn, you aren't really gaining anything.

Where Bootleggers' Stash becomes interesting is when you have additional artifact/treasure synergies - it's pretty crazy alongside stuff like Inspiring Statuary, Korvold, Fae-Cursed King, and Parallel Lives.... or you could turn it into a win condition with Marionette Master or Mayhem Devil.

I may have assessed the card wrongly (so many releases in the last few years plus the fact I've haven't really played any games in the same few years basically means I'm slipping down the general meta assessment), but the way I see it Bootleggers' Stash is the "competitive" version of the alternatives you mentioned. It will see more play (more being relative) than the alternatives in more powered metas and actually less play (supply and recency effect not withstanding) in more casual metas.

Its most distinct property that it stores mana in an external mechanism - treasures. Even without considering artifact synergies, this means once this starts storing mana, the storage is independent of the card itself, there's no "panic need to spend mana" when Bootleggers' Stash gets (inevitably) removed. It removes the need of a mana sink immediately of fear of removal and that's a pretty significant advantage.

The second most distinct property is that it itself is an artifact. This means it's slightly easier to remove than most of its alternatives so casual metas might favor it slightly less because of that (I'm pretty sure Horizon Stone isn't exactly popular because of that), but on the other side of the same coin, it benefits from artifact synergies itself (cost reduction being a good factor especially when it's not color-intensive at all).

I personally rated this card #1 functionally, but it's from a more powered/competitive (or combo) perspective, as its distinct traits separates itself from the alternatives enough that it's a much more potent fast combo piece than the competition. Heck, if treasures take off hard (or just Dockside Extortionist'ed), even in a "treasure vacuum" you could pay for it using treasures and leave your lands free to start generating treasures back (as early as turn 2 or 3 in Dockside powered/competitive metas).

It's not broken in the "just play it and it breaks the game" like Paradox Engine (and maybe The Great Henge) was, but it has potential to be broken in a "Thassa's Oracle" way where it simultaneously works "fairly" generally but can be really broken in the pushed right shell. It's actually more fair than Oracle because it has much less range between its general use (it's more powerful than Oracle when played normally) and its combo potential (lower ceiling since Oracle is the wincon while this needs a whole lot more set-up and isn't actually the winning piece, just the enabler).

Yatsufusa wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Heck, if treasures take off hard (or just Dockside Extortionist'ed), even in a "treasure vacuum" you could pay for it using treasures and leave your lands free to start generating treasures back (as early as turn 2 or 3 in Dockside powered/competitive metas).

Couldn't you just use your lands to pay for it and save the treasures and you end up with the same number of treasures...?

Card seems pretty bad in a vacuum but in a dedicated treasure deck it could easily dominate the game. If you're triggering stuff simply by tapping a land, that's probably going to get out of control fast. Anyway, compared to plenty of other green mana cards like the mana-tripler dude or Boundless Realms, it seems pretty niche and relatively low powered.

Also can we talk about how atrocious Vazi, Keen Negotiator is? Holy cow that is so bad.

Y'all need to run more vandalblast. The card still absolutely wrecks treasure decks, at least treasure Prosper. Smugglers Stash seems particularly vulnerable, especially if people are using it like a mana doubler, as some of y'all fear.

Man, I am disappointed by the Jund Precon. The Bant and Esper ones got my hopes up real high for the potential quality of the product, and sadly it is just a pile of limited bomb 6 drops and a Twilight Mire.

Oh well, Ziatora is still mad cool, so I'll just build from scratch instead. The fact that she's also a demon means I can finally play Mark of the Oni to some effect. She'll also probably be easier to acquire, given the projected delays on the precon distribution.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/st ... d-previews

All five precons. Big story here is more filter lands released into the wild, but the bulk of these "$100 decks" is still comprised of $3-$5 cards. Reprints typically lose ~33⅓% of their value in these too, so do be weary of the initial "I'm getting a good deal so I'll buy them all" trap many people fall into.

love Parnesse, the Subtle Brush. really solid and olde-worldy casual rattlesnake which probably has no place in modern commander lol

Literally been wanting to make a vote matters deck so very excited for Tivit, Seller of Secrets though now I need to figure out how to make it work lol.

Outside of Tivit though this set just dose different stuff then the shard decks I have/ already have a deck with similar themes in other colors but these sets have some sweet individual cards that I will try to pick up.

Also I feel like they are doing a lot better with white, loving stuff like Rumor Gatherer, Bennie Bracks, Zoologist, Inspiring Overseer and Sanctuary Warden

5colorsrainbow wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Also I feel like they are doing a lot better with white, loving stuff like Rumor Gatherer, Bennie Bracks, Zoologist, Inspiring Overseer and Sanctuary Warden

Aerial Extortionist also seems like a strong effect in EDH (Ghostly Pilferer has been very powerful in my experience, even competing with busted blue draw), so while the extortionist itself might be too expensive, I hope they keep this effect in white.

Smuggler's Share Was spoiled before, but it's official now. This might be my favorite card Wizards has printed since Feather, the Redeemed. As someone on Reddit said, it feels like the card every custom card designer (myself included) made a version of years ago. This gives white a fighting chance. I also saw some hot takes saying that it's overhyped and bad. Curious to see those people's reactions when this becomes a 60 dollar staple.

Not that I want it to cost that much, but if Smothering Tithe is any indication, that's where this will end up.

But when is all is said and done, SNC has been a massive boon for white in EDH I feel. This reminds me of what red started to become when it started getting impulsive draw and treasures. Fun to play. I've never been this excited to build a mono-white deck or two. I can be extremely critical of Wotc, but for SNC, I give them a 10/10. Bravo. This is exactly what the doctor ordered.

P.S. I don't even mind that Bennie and Rumor gatherer were just green cards with green art and and green creature types and typical green effects that were just color shifted at the last second. If that's what it takes to get good white cards I have no problems with that.

To rattle off some of the new toys:
Smuggler's Share
Rumor Gatherer
Bennie Bracks, Zoologist
Grand Crescendo
Angelic Sleuth
Giada, Font of Hope
Sanctuary Warden
Halo Fountain
Rabble Rousing
Aerial Extortionist
Resourceful Defense
Contractual Defense

There's a big difference between Tithe and Share - Tithe rubber-bands you as hard as the opponent goes off, whereas Share does a check on whether the opponent played the game and rewards you a little. If the guy on Gx goodstuff just ramped for a bunch and drew a fistful of cards, Tithe nets me a mountain of Treasure, while Share nets me a single draw and a single Treasure.

This is closer to Mangara, the Diplomat, and that hasn't taken the format by storm, has it? Admittedly Share is stronger, but I still think it's closer to Mangara than Tithe.

Rumpy5897 wrote: ↑

2 years ago

There's a big difference between Tithe and Share - Tithe rubber-bands you as hard as the opponent goes off, whereas Share does a check on whether the opponent played the game and rewards you a little. If the guy on Gx goodstuff just ramped for a bunch and drew a fistful of cards, Tithe nets me a mountain of Treasure, while Share nets me a single draw and a single Treasure.

This is closer to Mangara, the Diplomat, and that hasn't taken the format by storm, has it? Admittedly Share is stronger, but I still think it's closer to Mangara than Tithe.

Oh for sure, but man I'll take what I can get. Just drawing some cards is a win for me in white. If it ends up being 7.00 bucks instead of 60.00 that's great too. Keep it coming! I love Mangara too, he's great. If this is anything like him that's fantastic. This is what white needs, cultivate level cards that aren't game ending like tithe, but keep you in the game.

'Weaker than Smothering Tithe' is not necessarily a bad place to be - Tithe is a pretty crazy card, and there is a lot of design space that is weaker than it but still very playable. Smuggler's Share definitely looks to be worth testing, at least. I don't expect the treasure generation to trigger that often, but I won't say no to a white Phyrexian Arena.

I'm definitely happy about the filterland reprints - probably won't drop the price much, but nice to see them increasing the manabase quality in the precons.

As for specific cards that stand out to me...

• Aerial Extortionist looks quite fun - a repeatable tempo play that also provides some card advantage in white.
• Jailbreak looks very abusable - reanimating a permanent for 1w is extremely efficient. You do have to give an opponent something, but that's what diplomancy is for.
• Skyway Robber is an interesting piece of recursion. It reminds me a bit of Ethereal Forager, but being able to recur itself out of the graveyard seems sweet.
• Life Insurance is... interesting. A bit of a remixed Revel in Riches. The life loss does concern me - particularly from a combo perspective, where it may just prevent sacrifice loops - but Orzhov doesn't really have many options for mana production, so I'll probably end up testing it.
• Master of Ceremonies looks quite strong. Obligatory 'giving opponents choices is bad' callout, but it represents a lot of value.
• Prosperous Partnership is interesting for a similar reason to Life Insurance - Boros doesn't have a lot of mana production, so this looks pretty solid. I guess it's roughly 1/3 of an Earthcraft?
• In Too Deep is a fun piece of blue spot removal. Less permanent than Imprisoned in the Moon, but split second is always interesting.
• Angelic Sleuth is more white care advantage.
• Resourceful Defense looks abusable alongside planeswalkers. Flicker with Brago for an immediate ultimate?
• Extravagant Replication is hilarious. Time to clone some Doubling Seasons!
• Dogged Detective looks like a very solid piece of discard fodder - comparable to Squee, Goblin Nabob, if a bit less consistent.
• Syrix, Carrier of the Flame is a phoenix tribal commander! Very nice.
• Sinister Concierge is a janky piece of recurring but temporary removal in blue. Definitely seems worth testing if you have sac outlets.
• Audacious Swap is a fixed Chaos Warp... and thus reads as significantly worse. Still, hitting two targets can be relevant.

giggle
prosperous partnership plus Goblin Trenches kinda creates Squandered Resources

I usually buy a precon to play with, see how it plays out of the box, figure out what the designer was going for, but as much as I like a lot of these individual cards I'm not inspired by any of them. Especially after the Neon Dynasty precons played pretty well (even as duel decks) right out of the box.

Since I had some interest in Smuggler's Share for Daxos, I got the guys together for a couple test games. It's honestly not bad - as long as someone draws a single extra card in their turn in the turn cycle then it's a Phyrexian Arena, and it can just get better from there. When not looking at it through the lens of Smothering Tithe, but rather just general usefulness, the card is perfectly okay. Hopefully it won't end up too overhyped - Archaeomancer's Map was insanely expensive on release and is now a third of that asking price, though still barely in the double digits.

After playtesting a bit on digital, I appreciate the Broker deck the most, with Obscura deck coming second. Kamiz, Obscura Oculus makes a more interesting variant of ninja decks compare to Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow.

I like how Killer Service combos with Witch's Oven for Gyome.

I'm also enjoying some of the alliance cards for Hal and Alenna.

EDIT: I also love the Modern Horizon/Time Spiral mixing of mechanics I hope they keep it up. Both neat design for decks while possibly giving other decks a card (such Killer Service ).

I Like perrie. He is gonna go in falco. Actually which one is a better commander for counters matter?

I had a short-lived Perry deck, as I read the card and was enamoured by its enabling of random junk. Finally, a place where Coral Reef can shine! I was pleasantly surprised by how functional the deck turned out in practice - while far from strong, it was still possible to cobble together some ramp (some of it even quite respectable, like Joraga Treespeaker or Wall of Roots) and draw (a bit more dubious stuff like Tome of Legends) and actually play the game. The problem was all this counter junk would sit around and sauce up Perry, who was the deck's win condition. There are not a lot of good targets to place his buff on when swinging, pretty much just Cold-Eyed Selkie and Cephalid Constable, so the build ended up voltron. A bunch of junk shooting itself in the knee so Perry can swing in for like 9 or something. It played very samey and I did not bother rebuilding it after a computer misadventure.

Doing something cool and unique often leads to a rather narrow card pool and the deck building itself if you try to follow the signpost (as evidenced by Feather earlier and Perry now). By contrast, Falco is more conventional open-ended goodstuff in his card advantage reward, but you can still rock the Coral Reef if you want to. Just be sure to include some proliferate to keep the counters topped up for Falco to eat. I guess that sounds pretty fun actually.

Rumpy5897 wrote: ↑

2 years ago

I had a short-lived Perry deck, as I read the card and was enamoured by its enabling of random junk. Finally, a place where Coral Reef can shine! I was pleasantly surprised by how functional the deck turned out in practice - while far from strong, it was still possible to cobble together some ramp (some of it even quite respectable, like Joraga Treespeaker or Wall of Roots) and draw (a bit more dubious stuff like Tome of Legends) and actually play the game. The problem was all this counter junk would sit around and sauce up Perry, who was the deck's win condition. There are not a lot of good targets to place his buff on when swinging, pretty much just Cold-Eyed Selkie and Cephalid Constable, so the build ended up voltron. A bunch of junk shooting itself in the knee so Perry can swing in for like 9 or something. It played very samey and I did not bother rebuilding it after a computer misadventure.

Doing something cool and unique often leads to a rather narrow card pool and the deck building itself if you try to follow the signpost (as evidenced by Feather earlier and Perry now). By contrast, Falco is more conventional open-ended goodstuff in his card advantage reward, but you can still rock the Coral Reef if you want to. Just be sure to include some proliferate to keep the counters topped up for Falco to eat. I guess that sounds pretty fun actually.

Proliferate or better yet, persist. Glen elandra would be a create card to run.
Along with the druid that taps for green but put a -1/-1 to untap. I plan to pair that with the new PW equipment to just go wide with Falco. Sadly once you hit a land you are stuck, so i need to find a way to manipulate top deck. Top is good but only truly the best option once i have the engine online (Which would also require a filter like Gemstone Array)

i do feel Falco would be best option, Perrie seems to be more Voltron at a glance. He would probably find spots in Rafiq decks.