Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:43 pm
@materpillar had a real life Brothers' War y'all!
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[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
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Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:39 pm
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:51 pm
Getting dunked on by Bank of America is a new low for the fine folks at Wizards. I only wish they would have mentioned how hard they %$#% the bed with 30th Anniversary specifically.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:20 pm
He said he likes the set, and I'm a fan of it as well.Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:52 pm
Finally. Maybe the Board of WOTC/Hasbro will actually listen since their actions are finally impacting their bottom lines? I love me some Phyrexia stuff, but even I'm getting apathetic with how many sets they're printing. I lost track of how many this year (8? 10?) and it's burned out my interest in this game quite a bit. And, in talking with other, more enfranchised players, they feel the same way.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:25 pm
Haven't read the article but I would think by "overprinting" they mean that too many boxes of each set are being made, not that too many sets are being made?
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:00 pm
I have had a suspicion that this might be something coming for a few years now. Ultimately though it doesn't matter for me what my magic cards are worth though I don't buy cards as an investment I play what I need to play the game and thats about it. The price and worth of the cards and the company doesn't matter to me outside of the cost to obtain more copies.
I hope wizards lowers the number of products they release in a year though as its been totally out of control.
I hope wizards lowers the number of products they release in a year though as its been totally out of control.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:47 am
On one hand yes, but on the other too much of different types of product leads to chaotic environment where consumers may not be sure of the actual worth of any particular product, which in turn makes them hesitant too buy. Between Universes Beyond being eternal legal, Unfinity being a mixed bag and 30th Anniversary's strange situation from both playability and collectability point of view some people may not feel safe enough to invest in Magic right now, as the landscape changes too rapidly. Too many cards - not as physical copies, but the finalized mechanical ideas - coupled with power creep and a steep price of some staples also contributes to this, since people are not buying cards{paper}, afraid that they either missed something that better suits their deck's purpose, or that the card{idea} from next set will turn out to be superior to what they consider right now.DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoHaven't read the article but I would think by "overprinting" they mean that too many boxes of each set are being made, not that too many sets are being made?
When the buyers are hesitant to buy - or cannot be bothered to buy everything thrown at them - then it naturally leads to overprinting cards{paper} as well.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:35 am
@Lorn Asbord Schutta
I don't necessarily disagree with that analysis but is that what the article actually says?
I feel like we might be reading what we want to hear - wotc makes too many different products - rather than what is actually being said - they're overprinting new sets.
I don't necessarily disagree with that analysis but is that what the article actually says?
I feel like we might be reading what we want to hear - wotc makes too many different products - rather than what is actually being said - they're overprinting new sets.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:03 am
Here's the blurb from CNBC about hasbro :The toy maker's stock slid 5.2% in the premarket following a double-downgrade to "underperform" from "buy" at Bank of America. The move comes after BofA conducted what it calls a "deep dive" on Hasbro's "Magic: The Gathering" trading card game business. BofA said Hasbro has been overprinting cards and destroying the long-term value of the business.
part of the deepdive and hispter of the coast take on it https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2022 ... or-hasbro/
part of the deepdive
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"We've spoken with several players, collectors, distributors and local games stores and have become aware of growing frustration. The primary concern is that Hasbro has been overproducing Magic cards which has propped up Hasbro's recent results but is destroying the long-term value of the brand," Haas said in a client note.
In order to maintain high growth in this business after the pandemic, Hasbro came up with more frequent set releases, more products in each set, and wider distribution. However, this strategist has likely backfired, Haas warns.
"Players can't keep up and are increasingly switching to the "Commander" format which allows older cards to be used. The increased supply has crashed secondary market prices which has caused distributors, collectors and local game stores to lose money on Magic. As a result, we expect they'll order less product in future releases," the analyst added.
Moreover, Haas notes that the price for Magic 30th Anniversary set, set at $999 for four booster packs, is "excessively high."
"This has created panic among collectors and we're seeing collections being liquidated now that the scarcity value of Magic is in question."
Bank of America analysts are also growing increasingly cautious on Hasbro's Consumer Products segment amid "negative read-through from retailers and peers."
In order to maintain high growth in this business after the pandemic, Hasbro came up with more frequent set releases, more products in each set, and wider distribution. However, this strategist has likely backfired, Haas warns.
"Players can't keep up and are increasingly switching to the "Commander" format which allows older cards to be used. The increased supply has crashed secondary market prices which has caused distributors, collectors and local game stores to lose money on Magic. As a result, we expect they'll order less product in future releases," the analyst added.
Moreover, Haas notes that the price for Magic 30th Anniversary set, set at $999 for four booster packs, is "excessively high."
"This has created panic among collectors and we're seeing collections being liquidated now that the scarcity value of Magic is in question."
Bank of America analysts are also growing increasingly cautious on Hasbro's Consumer Products segment amid "negative read-through from retailers and peers."
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:08 am
Overprinting new sets is also a problem because it turns into crashing prices of the new products. New boxes suddenly tank and stores selling them for what they paid for them because otherwise they sit on the product is a very big problem that leads to stores not having faith or the ability to stock the product which results in even less sold and thus it backpiles to the distributors or higher who can't push it down to the store level.DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year ago@Lorn Asbord Schutta
I don't necessarily disagree with that analysis but is that what the article actually says?
I feel like we might be reading what we want to hear - wotc makes too many different products - rather than what is actually being said - they're overprinting new sets.
They are also having a big issue with standard and 60 card magic desirability lately which is pushing people to either commander or out of the game entirely. I watched rudy at Alpha Investments explain that he is no longer going to carry new product even just to sell it to his patreons because they were mad that they could get boxes for cheaper than what he could provide it for because people are providing it for essentially what the distributors are selling it to Rudy for to the end customer because they need to offload the product.
Its a bit long winded but if you want to catch it:
EDIT: Oh and I guess he has a part 2 continuation vid too.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:12 am
@DirkGently
Based on the following article (emphasis mine):
Based on the following article (emphasis mine):
I would say that both are happening hand-to-hand.Hasbro is trying to squeeze extra money out of "Magic: The Gathering" fans in the short term, Bank of America says. That could hurt the long-term business. Analyst Jason Haas downgraded the toy stock to underperform from buy as recent changes to the "Magic" cards brand amount to Hasbro "killing its golden goose." The analyst also slashed his price target on the stock to $42 from $73.
The new target implies downside of 33.8% from Friday's close. "The primary concern is that Hasbro has been overproducing Magic cards which has propped up Hasbro's recent results but is destroying the long-term value of the brand," he said in a note to clients. "Magic: The Gathering" is a trading card business that accounts for about 15% of Hasbro's revenue and 35% of EBITDA after sales doubled during the pandemic due to financial stimulus.
The toy company has tried to capitalize on that demand by upping the number of new releases and production volumes. But Haas said several players are getting increasingly turned off to new releases amid unwelcomed changes from the company. He said the company is increasing releases for short-term financial gain with little care over how the brand will suffer longer term. Players now feel like they can't keep up with new releases and are instead playing a different version of the card game where older cards can be used, he said.
Seven of the last eight releases have declined in value by Bank of America's count. National retailers have cut the brand or are increasingly focused on moving old inventory, according to a Bank of America check of stores. That comes as retailers turn to promotions for a wide range of products to try to move gluts of inventory as consumers roll back spending on goods coming out of the pandemic. Haas also said he is "concerned" by the company's decision to release a 30th anniversary set that includes four booster packs for $999. He said that is "excessively" high compared to a normal set pack's $5 price.
Reprints can hurt the secondary-sale market because the packs include cards from the "Reserved List," which is a group of cards Hasbro previously promised to never reprint. Some have argued its not a true reprint since the anniversary cards cannot be used in tournaments, while others say it doesn't matter because their existence will still drive down scarcity and, by extension, value. "This set has devalued many high-value cards, and collectors are concerned that Wizards will reprint more," he said.
Businesses and collectors would sometimes purposefully hold packs to sell later at higher price as demand outpaced supply, he said, but that system is now collapsing due to production increases and the unexpected reprints. The aggregate price of Reserved List cards peaked in mid 2021 at more than $250,000, but is now down to around $150,000. He said the changing secondary market could push card collectors to "Pokémon," "Yu-Gi-Oh!" and "Flesh and Blood" instead. Meanwhile, Haas said Hasbro could improve its outlook if it has a better slate of releases next year. The stock dipped 6.2% in the premarket. It's down 37.7% this year. Hasbro didn't immediately respond to CNBC's request for comment. — CNBC's Michael Bloom contributed to this report.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:22 am
Each Magic set used to feel like a special event, but now it's just a constant stream of product that never feels special. Each standard legal set has four different kinds of booster and 2-5 Commander decks. You need a flow chart to determine what's in a booster. Secret Lairs are endless. Universes Beyond has a whole host of potential implications.
It all just bleeds together now. Even unequivocal home runs like Neon Dynasty may not be enough to keep me around.
It all just bleeds together now. Even unequivocal home runs like Neon Dynasty may not be enough to keep me around.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:28 am
I know its bad when I haven't actually looked at most of the cards in Brother's War yet lol. I have no clue whats in it or if there are things I need for my decks but even if I do need something my assumption is that it just hemorrhages all of its worth two weeks after it drops and everything is cheap then so why bother looking until after it releases?RxPhantom wrote: ↑1 year agoEach Magic set used to feel like a special event, but now it's just a constant stream of product that never feels special. Each standard legal set has four different kinds of booster and 2-5 Commander decks. You need a flow chart to determine what's in a booster. Secret Lairs are endless. Universes Beyond has a whole host of potential implications.
It all just bleeds together now. Even unequivocal home runs like Neon Dynasty may not be enough to keep me around.
With the drop off of standard players in paper and the over printing issue its been killing secondary prices of cards for a while now on new product. Some of it is still expensive but you only need a single copy for commander so meh.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:54 am
Lol I guess I should have actually read the article before commenting if I didn't want to get rekt. RIP me.
That's very interesting then. Would be awesome if it actually caused any positive changes.
That's very interesting then. Would be awesome if it actually caused any positive changes.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:16 am
No, we can't have that kind of behavior around hereDirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoLol I guess I should have actually read the article before commenting if I didn't want to get rekt. RIP me.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:32 am
@Hermes_ in my defence I've had a very busy day. Passed my second written CPL test woooooo (out of 6).
Also I'm up to 70 PIC hours, so I've been in charge of a plane for 70 hours and I didn't even break it or anything!
Also I'm up to 70 PIC hours, so I've been in charge of a plane for 70 hours and I didn't even break it or anything!
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:19 am
@DirkGently when/if I graduate from "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" to Bezos-level billionaire, I'm gonna charter all my fancy flights with AirGently.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:41 pm
I do think this is perhaps the first opportunity for real change we've seen in maybe ever - this isn't some (however popular) YouTuber, former pro, or Reddit mob complaining about the awful state of Magic. This is mainstream financial institution telling the whole world to avoid investing in Hasbro. From a corporate standpoint they have almost no choice but to change course or die.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:25 pm
Being that they are slaves to their shareholders the shareholder price is about the only objective they have at the company. Its part of why they embarked on their aggressive pumping of new product because they wanted to increase their overall profits to make shareholders happy. Hurting your game, driving players off, gutting LGS's is all things that hurt their long term viability at the benefit of a very short term gain which is something that a lot of people had been pointing at for a while now. The only difference is that someone on the outside is recognizing what is happening finally.Lifeless wrote: ↑1 year agoI do think this is perhaps the first opportunity for real change we've seen in maybe ever - this isn't some (however popular) YouTuber, former pro, or Reddit mob complaining about the awful state of Magic. This is mainstream financial institution telling the whole world to avoid investing in Hasbro. From a corporate standpoint they have almost no choice but to change course or die.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:09 pm
Lel BofA.
BofA DEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BofA DEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:53 pm
On a widely unrelated note, I started playing Divinity 2: Original Sin with a friend. We're not very far in but I've been enjoying it greatly.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:07 pm
My brother invited me to a Minecraft server w/ his friends a couple days ago and I'm falling in love with the game all over again XD.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:43 pm
I have always kind of wondered what the appeal of Minecraft is. I have seen it played a bunch but it doesn't look that interesting of a game. That said, for whatever reason I love Terraria which could be compared to minecraft. I have a weird thing for 2d side scrollers though. I always felt like Terraria had more emphasis on combat and bosses though where as minecraft feels more like a building sandbox than a video game to me.
Re: [Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:52 pm
I'm in a Minecraft server with a really good friend of mine. Neither of us have ever played it before. I think I like it like some other people enjoy fishing. It's just a pretty chill/laid back experience. Every now and then you get a little bit of a dopamine drip.ISBPathfinder wrote: ↑1 year agoI have always kind of wondered what the appeal of Minecraft is. I have seen it played a bunch but it doesn't look that interesting of a game. That said, for whatever reason I love Terraria which could be compared to minecraft. I have a weird thing for 2d side scrollers though. I always felt like Terraria had more emphasis on combat and bosses though where as minecraft feels more like a building sandbox than a video game to me.
There's some fun light exploration. Some fun light building. But everything is pretty much extremely low pressure. You can work on whatever you want. I just got my first batch of cows raised. Built a bed for my friend. Mild enjoyable accomplishments.