Re: Let's Brew Thalia and The Gitrog Monster: Man I Love Frogs
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:06 am
First impression (Don;t have much more time). You only run 14 creatures. How do you build a board presence?
Magic the Gathering Resources, Tools, Previews, and Community.
https://www.mtgnexus.com/
Sorry, I'm intoxicated, I hit post before completing the post. I've edited in some notes.Ertai Planeswalker wrote: ↑1 year agoFirst impression (Don;t have much more time). You only run 14 creatures. How do you build a board presence?
and we have Field of the Dead and 400 tutorsTheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoSorry, I'm intoxicated, I hit post before completing the post. I've edited in some notes.Ertai Planeswalker wrote: ↑1 year agoFirst impression (Don;t have much more time). You only run 14 creatures. How do you build a board presence?
As for board presence, our commander has first strike and deathtouch.
Agreed, given the redundancy and tutors we have in getting Field of the Dead I could see this being very strong. Maybe it can replace Avenger of Zendikar as they have a similar place on the curve and we already have a good amount of token producers/buffers + tutors to get them out?
I'm not quite sold on the Greenwarden coming back in. From my brief experience playing Yarok, the Desecrated Lands, doubling FIeld/Swarm token production wasn't bad but it often felt unnecessary. I'm not opposed to it, I'm just weary of winmore six-drops.duducrash wrote: ↑1 year agoI think Ancient Greenwarden is worth it tbh, playing it and immediately getting 2 zombies is very nice. Both him and new Norn I think are good, because are 2 playable effects in one card
Aditionally, Scapeshift and Crop Rotation are very nice
I think I like Tear Asunder more than path to exile these days
Oh, right. I thought they meant general board presence to deter random attackers. There are also the numerous other ways this deck can produce bodies in mass quantity. Reclaimer is pretty good, but is it too redundant with Knight of the Reliquary? I suppose I could cut Sylvan Scrying for it, but I like the idea of getting the land now more than having to wait a turn for a repeatable effect. I'd say it's a toss-up between the two and I wouldn't blame anyone for running one over the other.pokken wrote: ↑1 year agoand we have Field of the Dead and 400 tutors
note: I would try to get Elvish Reclaimer in. it good.
It's a tough call. Avenger is a great army-in-a-can and is self-sufficient in winning games all by itself. I think Worm Harvest is also an option, as the number of lands in the graveyard might be much lower than we think. Cobra is much worse than Tireless Provisioner as we can bank the mana with the Provisioner.Gorillajay wrote: ↑1 year agoAgreed, given the redundancy and tutors we have in getting Field of the Dead I could see this being very strong. Maybe it can replace Avenger of Zendikar as they have a similar place on the curve and we already have a good amount of token producers/buffers + tutors to get them out?
Also, is Lotus Cobra worth a slot here? It's some explosive mana ramp, especially with multiple land drops. Just not sure if that's the kind of ramp we can use effectively?
Finally, I love the pet card of Overgrown Estate. Zuran Orb has a similar effect. Could we add in something like Aetherflux Reservoir for a cheeky backup win con, or is that too cute? If we're in the interest of saccing lands Squandered Resources becomes an option as well.
Yeah, It's nice to have Avenger be self sufficient at getting value while Ancient Greenwarden needs Lands + Landfall effect to benefit. That said, I like the suggestion of cutting Worm Harvest. I played it in a Gitrog deck and it didn't feel like I was able to get much value out of it, most of the times we want to be replaying our lands from the yard so we're actively working against being able to make several pests. Plus the 100% pure synergy of Ancient Greenwarden + Field of the Dead or Felidar Retreat is TOO GOOD to pass up.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoIt's a tough call. Avenger is a great army-in-a-can and is self-sufficient in winning games all by itself. I think Worm Harvest is also an option, as the number of lands in the graveyard might be much lower than we think. Cobra is much worse than Tireless Provisioner as we can bank the mana with the Provisioner.
Also agree that cutting Provisioner for Elvish Reclaimer seems like a good plan to make sure we can ALWAYS get Field of the Dead.
Not only are those two enchantments powerful and underplayed, enabling a turn 3 TATGM seems very, very good. You get a land drop, disruption, and a top tier blocker all in one. Even if she's removed, you can likely cast her the following turn. I can't really think of any more powerful ahead of curve plays our deck can make, and it's not even close. As for Into the North, por que não ambos? Our deck can support the snow duals.duducrash wrote: ↑1 year agoI'm curious about Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl , is it in order to hit the commander on t3? I like at least Into the North before.
You're probably right about the basics. In my opinion, it's a mistake to get too cute with colorless utility lands in 3+ color decks. A manabase's primary function is to, well, make mana, and cards like Bonders' Enclave and Contested War Zone are probably not worth running. As for Urborg/Presence, I think you might actually be right. I think those three can for one each of Snow-Covered Forest, Plains, and Swamp. This improves the basic fetches as well as Into the North.heridfel wrote: ↑1 year agoI think you may have gone too light on basic lands to make Prismatic Vista, Sakura-Tribe Elder, and Rampant Growth useful. There are also a lot of cards which look for Forests compared to how many Forests you have (7, if I counted right).
The only cards I see which require more than one black mana are Damn and the spell side of Agadeem, so I don't know that Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth gets you much more than a Swamp would. Yeah, it is a different name for Field of the Dead and can combo with Dread Presence, but those seem to be the only other benefits.
I think you'd want Snow-Covered basic lands rather than normal ones to reduce the chance of Into the North being a dead card.
Personally, I don't think this deck benefits as much from Sol Ring as many decks because this deck has access to green and most of its cards don't come out two turns faster with two colorless mana. You can get things out one turn faster with any number of green options. Given something like Hour of Revelation needing 3 white mana or the commander needing all three types, I would consider Birds of Paradise as ramp and color fixing. If it draws some targeted removal which might have otherwise hit your commander or Oracle/Azuza/Elvish Reclaimer, then it still served a purpose. If that would draw heat with your local group, though, then so be it.
I think Ilysian Caryatid and Bloom Tender are both worth thinking about as 2 cmc ramp.
Sure. We want TATGM on turn 3 all the time.pokken wrote: ↑1 year agoI think Ilysian Caryatid and Bloom Tender are both worth thinking about as 2 cmc ramp.
I do admit that sometimes I can be too cute for own good with my manabases, but I think you go too far here. The deck could use more green mana overall, so I can agree with Stage and Eiganjo. Vesuva is worthwhile as the only Field clone because it costs no mana to activate and is real, real good with Reclaimer, Knight, and Crop Rotation. Bog is similarly good because of the ways to tutor for it. The triome and Bosk may enter tapped, but being fetchable with fetchlands and some ramp spells to fix mana is very, very good. The snow duals and cycling lands are borderline. Enabling Into the North and giving us the Loam draw engine is pretty decent, but I could see getting rid of them for more basics. I do like that I'm completely singleton for maximum Field efficiency, though.I gotta say the only substantial disagreement I have with you is manabase.
I would cut a lot of that cute stuff
Should becomes omething like...6 more basics, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Scattered Groves, and maybe the triome but man I hate that it etb's tapped.
I think Farseek Into the North and Rampant Growth are all trash; i'd rather have big mana 2 cmc dudes I think there. I think Sakura-Tribe Elder has advantages of being able to loop with Volrath's Stronghold in a stall, so I like that.
The non-green cycling lands are hot garbage imho. They enter tapped, make one color, and aren't fetchable. :thumbs down:
I missed out, so, yeah. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.I do think this is a Gaea's Cradle deck but I understand the cost concerns there.
Maybe about the dorks. I would rather lean on the 2mv land ramp spells, even the mediocre ones like Into the North and Rampant Growth since they can at least trigger Landfall in the mid and late game when the dorks might otherwise be completely useless. With Vale and the Caryatid, that's 14 ways to get 4 mana on turn 3 approximately 70% of the time accounting for needing 3 land drops. Statistical analysis isn't everything, but given how good TATGM is on turn 3, I think it's worth optimizing around that.I'm normally not really a proponent of playing a lot of dork-creature bridge ramp in a deck like this, but man, the payoff for getting your commander out on 3 instead of 4 is absurd, and your commander will fix almost everything.
The other very nice thing about creatures is that you can sac them to draw cards. I really, really like that interaction.
With that in mind, plus that Gaea's Cradle / Deserted Temple will figure prominently, I will likely run a lot more dorks than I usually would in a lands deck.
I'd go 4 forests/1 plains/1 swamp probably of +6 basics. Check out my Maelstrom Wanderer manabase--https://deckbox.org/sets/2899889TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoI do admit that sometimes I can be too cute for own good with my manabases, but I think you go too far here.
Okay, fair enough. I can cut Confluence, City for a couple of forests.pokken wrote: ↑1 year agoI'd go 4 forests/1 plains/1 swamp probably of +6 basics. Check out my Maelstrom Wanderer manabase--https://deckbox.org/sets/2899889
41 lands and 12 basics, total of 22 or so fetchable lands.
Obviously it's easier when you've got the abur duals but man being able to get basics a lot always feels so good.
With the full fetch package you will never struggle with Field of the Dead in a 3 color deck, even without ABUR duals.
I never understand why people need Mana Confluence in 3 color green decks. I never want to pay life for tapping my lands when I'm playin 3 fetches a turn. It's bad enough. I have never run confluence/city in 3c manabases with green and I never will
Think of it this way: with World Shaper, you get your lands back and draw a card but requires your commander, and with Reclamation you get your lands back, period. We're already eking out a ton of value with the recursion spell, so I don't think adding on a cantrip is all that valuable. I think it's a bit greedy.Cutting World Shaper feels just unutterably wrong. The ability for froggirl to just sac it the turn you cast is pure bananatown.
I want to play 44 lands, and it feels like the weakest option. It's either that or Kor Haven, which could be a delightful combat trick with our instant speed land fetches.Flagstones of Trokair feels super good to me. It's solid fixing and feeds the graveyard etc. I think it's probably right to play.
I agree. The way I see it, the cycling lands are primarily played tapped on turn 1 when you can untap and ramp on turn 2. Otherwise, they're just cantrips that can be recurred with Crucible or turned into a draw engine with Loam.duducrash wrote: ↑1 year agoI would not cut Bojuka bog, specially with so many ways to tutor lands to the battlefield at instant speed. Its premium hate, cycling lands and recursion are always cute, it sucks to play etb tapped on curve but half of this deck is lands 🤔
I specially like the triome because it can be fetch with Flagstones, farseek, nature's lore and three visits