MTGNexus

I am quite amused by this idea at the moment: I want to try to make Lukka, Coppercoat Outcast work for getting Chancellor of the Forge.

In my case, dropping Siege-Gang Commander to enable this would be rather straightforward, but I've gotten immense use out of Goblin Dark-Dwellers, that cut would be more difficult. I really like that plan though.

Crazy Monkey wrote: ↑

4 years ago

The first draft based on the primer template is below.

Looks great!

Well I didn't know what I expected from a core set, but Treacherous Greed is a ritual that I'm likely to test here.

I was thinking Zada when I saw it, too. Might even be able to steal a mana dork with it.

So Conspicuous Snoop is combotastic. Play it out, then next turn (or with a bit more mana and haste on the Snoop) use Goblin Recruiter to put Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on top. Make lots of Snoops, and the last one makes another Recuiter to put Mogg Fanatic or something on top. Machine-gun opponents to death.

Or get Skirk Prospector and make tons of r and do whatever.

I'll be adding Conspicuous Snoop to my Krenko, Mob Boss because it's my tribal deck and to avoid infinites in Zada. It will need to be added as an option in the list of viable cards, but won't make my own decklist.

Well, then. Unleash Fury

Agreed, unexpected and glad to have it. I'm probably swapping Fatal Frenzy out for Unleash Fury just for CMC reasons. Losing trample isn't great, but lower costs are better.

I overlook the potential for Surly Badgersaur from Ikoria with discard outlets as mana source. I know that I don't currently run enough discard to enable it as a mana source, but I was reminded of it when looking at a different deck. Players running Faithless Looting or wheels should probably consider it.

I'm currently testing the following swaps:

• Fatal Frenzy → Spark of Creativity: I was going to swap for Unleash Fury but I think that slightly higher density of cantrips is viable. I'm not overly optimistic about adding in any of the other cantrips right now due to timing restrictions. I also realized that the main reason for me to use Fatal frenzy was if I stalled out, which isn't a great reason. The main reason for me to use Fatal Frenzy outside this circumstance was only Spikeshot Elder.
• Brute Strength OR Phyrexian Altar → Traitorous Greed: I'm going to test both of these swaps. Greed should be a massive ritual, so it can potentially swap for the next most expensive ritual while keeping more creatures or I can reduce the concentration of toughness increasing cards. I think that the altar is the better swap, but that feels weird to say.
• Krenko, Mob Boss → Chancellor of the Forge: These do the same thing, but chancellor has more power when copied, doesn't require haste, and counts non-goblins. Chancellor isn't entirely dead in opening hand and is absolutely nuts if flipped into. It also enables the deck to reach damage numbers that were previously non possible with Underworld Breach. With just 60 cards for 21x Heat Shimmer, that's multiplying creature count by 2^21^2, then squaring it again with Path of Anger's Flame.
• Empty the Warrens → Pia and Kiran Nalaar: I'm hesitant to make this swap, but adding them back as more EtB tokens at the cost of some of the goblin synergies such as Brightstone Ritual. I'm not sure this will stick because I won't be including a storm card in my storm deck. If it does stick, I might drop a mountain for Great Furnace so I have a source of r to flip from thopters.

I guess I should do a set review, I'll edit it in here soon.

Core 2021 Set Review
Recommended Inclusions

• Traitorous Greed: This ritual approaches Desperate Ritual in mana output. The initial cost may be somewhat high, but on the turn that it matters, this should net at least +6xr from 5 creatures, and scales well from there. If you're still running Inner Fire or Mana Geyser, I recommend this as a swap.
• Conspicuous Snoop: This is an easy addition for most Zada decks that aren't avoiding infinite combos via the Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Goblin Recruiter line or just Scroll Rack. I already run Mogg Fanatic for the finisher.
• Unleash Fury: The most efficient mana cost to double power. This is a solid inclusion in decks that want to use Zada to radiate combat tricks, and a strict upgrade for decks running Rush of Blood.

Not Recommended, but Possible Considerations

• Goblin Wizardry: it's not mana efficient, but a deck that wants to generate its tokens with instants/sorceries could include this, but 4 CMC is a lot if you're storming.
• Heartfire Immolator: Another version of Spikeshot Elder that requires less mana to threaten lethal damage, but the one shot nature of the ability forces higher reliance on pump spells instead of the elder substituting as much power for large rituals if needed. Prowess is nice, but I don't think this makes the cut.
• Kinetic Augur: a budget swap for Seasoned Pyromancer in decks that want it, but again the CMC is prohibitive for me.

Not considered

• Terror of the Peaks: just play Purphoros, God of the Forge if you want this effect. The additional target options aren't worth the increased CMC here. If you were running Warstorm Surge, then make this swap.
• Transmogrify: trading tokens for more sources of tokens is good, but we can't selectively keep our non-tokens off Zada. This gives up too much.

Disappointment embodied

• Crash Through is a reprint that reminds me exactly how disappointed I am that it already affects all my creatures instead of having the magic word "target".

It's a bit late, but:

Jump Start Set Review
Recommended Inclusions

• Nothing of note

Not Recommended, but Possible Considerations

• Living Lightning: A method to recur an instant or sorcery can set up another infinite loop with Twinflame effects. Requires a sacrifice outlet, but more flexible than Anarchist.

Not Considered

• Muxus, Goblin Grandee: This is an extremely goblin-centric card, and is likely to do very little unless you're running a tribal goblins deck

I haven't played enough beyond goldfishing the swaps that I mentioned testing above, but I have already had test runs where each of the 5 (I have added Great Furnace to the current testing) pulled their weight to successfully storm out.

There was an unlucky flip where Spark of Creativity (and it's flashback) did exile Overblaze, Path of Anger's Flame, and Desperate Ritual, but it also exiled Stun, which drew me into Into the Fray to enable splicing and keep the mana bank full. That was also my only cantrip at the time, so the deck would have just stalled otherwise.

From goldfishing, I think that the Traitorous Greed swap is almost certainly going to be Phyrexian Altar. Having a larger number of 1 CMC red spells is a great enabler when my only mana source is a Twinflamed Runaway Steam-Kin.

I also had a run where discarding Reality Scramble to Seasoned Pyromancer then retracing it got enough creatures and flipped into Priest of Urabrask to keep going. I always forget that Scramble has retrace.

I've spent the last day thinking about Ardent Electromancer, because we can technically reach a full party with it as the wizard, Priest of Urabrask as the cleric, and Goblin Instigator as the rogue. There is more than 1 warrior in the deck. However, I don't think it ends up being good enough because it doesn't get past a lack of mana unless the battlefield is already full. Running out of mana with 5 nontoken creatures is extremely rare because our hand is usually 30+ cards at that point

EtB tapped lands are obviously bad here, but I might finally drop Scroll Rack for Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge. It has more interaction with the rest of the deck, Runaway Steam-Kin and Past in Flames for example. The decision will be whether to drop a mountain for it or scroll rack, I think.

Inordinate Rage is almost certainly making the cut here, more scry on the pump spells is going to be good here. I'm leaning towards swapping for either Brute Strength or Infuriate.

Well, Infuriate does nothing else.

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Well, Infuriate does nothing else.

I'm mostly looking at the CMC, because 2 toughness for 1 mana is very efficient. I still have Rush of Adrenaline as a source of trample, and I do tend to go wide with attacks. Brute Strength is the last 2 CMC effect that I run outside of Path of Anger's Flame, which when combined with +X/+1 is why it's in consideration. I'll likely always trade scry-trips for trample, and that keeps the average CMC as low as possible. I need to test both.

I don't know about you guys, but i will be playing the sh#t out of Krark, the Thumbless (unless it'll turn out to cost absurd amounts of money).I'd love to bounce spells to my hand once they got copied and i don't mind them getting copied either, despite not triggering her.
Turning the downside into a potentially insane upside engine is just glorious!

That doesn't even check where the spell is cast from, letting past in flames or underworld breach return spells to hand 50% of the time. The only downside is that you don't want it early to brick Hordeling Outburst or something. Absolutely nutty engine that is technically noninfinite so I can include it. Krark is almost certainly worth including, and at rare shouldn't be budget constrained.

geeeeeeeeeeeez that card is dumb for zada decks. Grats y'all! I suspect you may set new damage records with Krark.

I am definitely going to test Goldspan Dragon here, for two key reasons. First, Zada's trigger is fully function with the dragon, because the copied spell which targets it should then trigger the dragon. If it was only that, the 5 CMC would be too high for me to test. However, doubling the effective mana from treasure means that most spells will pay for themselves off a single dragon, and if multiple copies of the dragon are out, this scales twice as well as Runaway Steam-Kin.

Finally, I think this should be a stronger consideration in any slower, value-over-time deck, because the stored mana of treasure has more flexibility than the ritual effects of the more storm-type builds.

Crazy Monkey wrote: ↑

3 years ago

I am definitely going to test Goldspan Dragon here, for two key reasons. First, Zada's trigger is fully function with the dragon, because the copied spell which targets it should then trigger the dragon.

Are you sure about this?
As far as i know the template "becomes the target" refers to actually choosing the creature as a target when casting the spell.
If i'm wrong, i will have to get a copy myself.

NoNeedToBragoBoutIt wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Crazy Monkey wrote: ↑

3 years ago

I am definitely going to test Goldspan Dragon here, for two key reasons. First, Zada's trigger is fully function with the dragon, because the copied spell which targets it should then trigger the dragon.

Are you sure about this?
As far as i know the template "becomes the target" refers to actually choosing the creature as a target when casting the spell.
If i'm wrong, i will have to get a copy myself.

Nearly all effects that trigger when a creature is targeted (eg. heroic) trigger on cast, and follow the wording "whenever *player* cast a spell targeting *card*". The "becomes a target" wording is much less common, and generally has been used to include targeting from abilities. I'm nearly certain that this works because the trigger does not occur at "cast", so it would also trigger after any retargeting effect, such as Deflecting Swat.

The most recent printing with similar wording that I can find is Bonecrusher Giant // Stomp, if you'd like a current card for ruling reference.

I'm having trouble finding an exact ruling, but a GitHub issue detailing an XMage bug seems to believe that having a spell copy target a Bonecrusher Giant should result in a trigger to the face as the correct behaviour.

Thanks for the catch, Monkey. I can attest the Dragon is crazy in practice, having summoned a friend for a couple test games. My grumbling was entirely unfounded as per wording nitpicks.

Birgi, God of Tales

So, apparently this card says "Whenever you cast a spell, add . Until end of turn, you don't lose this mana as steps or phases end." and i don't have to read any further than that to try it out.

And the other side is an artifact for 4R that says "Discard a card: Exile the top two cards of your library. You may play those cards this turn."

There's a surprising amount of new support for Zada-type red storm in this set between Birgi, God of Storytelling and Goldspan Dragon. Comparing the two, the front side of Birgi is lower CMC for a more consistent, but smaller payout. Not being clone-able here is a downside compared to the dragon and Runaway Steam-Kin, but she is a solid engine. The back side harnfell, horn of bounty is consistency for when a cantrip whiffs, so that's a solid backup use. Both sides of her card are great here.

My issue is that I don't know if I can fit both of these in my build. I had been planning on a test of Goldspan Dragon replacing Priest of Urabrask in a mana slot, or maybe Scampering Scorcher. Fitting Birgi as well is something that I want, but will take more brainstorming/testing.

At this point, I'm certain that an arcane-less Zada deck would have better consistency by using permanent-based engines in the place of Desperate Ritual support, while also opening slots for additional draw effects or protection/interaction. I know that I personally won't be dropping arcane for theme reasons, but I'm confident that there's a critical mass for these engines.