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Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:27 am
by Treamayne
pokken wrote: ↑3 years ago
I'd definitely be excited to see 5 monocolored devotion decks, or 5 2-color devotion decks focused on ally or enemy colored gods - new takes on Ephara/Karametra/Phenax/Klothys/mogis would be dope
With this, I would also like more "# of <land type>" effects (e.g.
Quarry Colossus/
Engulf the Shore/
Corrupt/
Spitting Earth/
Dungrove Elder). I think there is quite a bit of space in this design besides "Creature gets bigger."
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:33 am
by pokken
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:53 am
by Guardman
My number one answer is Madness. I know we just got an entire deck dedicated to Madness, but it was just so disappointing.
Anje Falkenrath was more of a combo piece than a true Madness commander. And the new Madness cards were only so-so. It really felt like people who had no idea what makes the mechanic beloved made the deck.
Onto other answers I do agree that having mono-colored devotion decks with stuff like
Engulf the Shore would be cool. If it does happen I think it would be neat to have partners included that encourage you to pair it with a partner of the same color.
Delirium would be cool, especially if they pair it up with some neat Tribal cards or maybe a legendary Lhurgoyf Commander that uses
Tarmogoyf's power/toughness text as a secondary Commander in the deck. Now that I think about it, it really sounds cool. Maybe Temur colors (I know BG probably makes more sense, but I like the UR Modern Horizon 2 Delirium cards better than the Innistrad ones). Plus I always loved the Tribal card type and wish they would make more cards with it.
My wild card answer: Grandeur. I have no idea how it would work (would probably require some text like
Seven Dwarves), but it was always a mechanic I loved and would love to see in Commander... Now that I think about it, I think I just like mechanics that let you play a lot of the same legendary like
Brothers Yamazaki... which also doesn't work in Commander.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:40 am
by Vessiliana
I loved Devotion, so I will just jump on that train, too. Adventures would be good. I really loved the concept of them, but they were just not that good, and no Commander cares.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:05 am
by Venedrex
Guardman wrote: ↑3 years ago
My number one answer is Madness. I know we just got an entire deck dedicated to Madness, but it was just so disappointing.
Anje Falkenrath was more of a combo piece than a true Madness commander. And the new Madness cards were only so-so. It really felt like people who had no idea what makes the mechanic beloved made the deck.
Onto other answers I do agree that having mono-colored devotion decks with stuff like
Engulf the Shore would be cool. If it does happen I think it would be neat to have partners included that encourage you to pair it with a partner of the same color.
Delirium would be cool, especially if they pair it up with some neat Tribal cards or maybe a legendary Lhurgoyf Commander that uses
Tarmogoyf's power/toughness text as a secondary Commander in the deck. Now that I think about it, it really sounds cool. Maybe Temur colors (I know BG probably makes more sense, but I like the UR Modern Horizon 2 Delirium cards better than the Innistrad ones). Plus I always loved the Tribal card type and wish they would make more cards with it.
My wild card answer: Grandeur. I have no idea how it would work (would probably require some text like
Seven Dwarves), but it was always a mechanic I loved and would love to see in Commander... Now that I think about it, I think I just like mechanics that let you play a lot of the same legendary like
Brothers Yamazaki... which also doesn't work in Commander.
You just gave me an idea. Let me throw a custom card together really quick. I can't stop laughing at the idea of some puffed up Myr or rat who has Grandeur and the text that lets you put an infinite amount of them into your deck. Just keep discarding your commander over and over lol.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:06 am
by Venedrex
Vessiliana wrote: ↑3 years ago
I loved Devotion, so I will just jump on that train, too. Adventures would be good. I really loved the concept of them, but they were just not that good, and no Commander cares.
Guardman wrote: ↑3 years ago
My number one answer is Madness. I know we just got an entire deck dedicated to Madness, but it was just so disappointing.
Anje Falkenrath was more of a combo piece than a true Madness commander. And the new Madness cards were only so-so. It really felt like people who had no idea what makes the mechanic beloved made the deck.
Onto other answers I do agree that having mono-colored devotion decks with stuff like
Engulf the Shore would be cool. If it does happen I think it would be neat to have partners included that encourage you to pair it with a partner of the same color.
Delirium would be cool, especially if they pair it up with some neat Tribal cards or maybe a legendary Lhurgoyf Commander that uses
Tarmogoyf's power/toughness text as a secondary Commander in the deck. Now that I think about it, it really sounds cool. Maybe Temur colors (I know BG probably makes more sense, but I like the UR Modern Horizon 2 Delirium cards better than the Innistrad ones). Plus I always loved the Tribal card type and wish they would make more cards with it.
My wild card answer: Grandeur. I have no idea how it would work (would probably require some text like
Seven Dwarves), but it was always a mechanic I loved and would love to see in Commander... Now that I think about it, I think I just like mechanics that let you play a lot of the same legendary like
Brothers Yamazaki... which also doesn't work in Commander.
Treamayne wrote: ↑3 years ago
pokken wrote: ↑3 years ago
I'd definitely be excited to see 5 monocolored devotion decks, or 5 2-color devotion decks focused on ally or enemy colored gods - new takes on Ephara/Karametra/Phenax/Klothys/mogis would be dope
With this, I would also like more "# of <land type>" effects (e.g.
Quarry Colossus/
Engulf the Shore/
Corrupt/
Spitting Earth/
Dungrove Elder). I think there is quite a bit of space in this design besides "Creature gets bigger."
I really like Devotion as well. Anything that encourages mono-colored deck building is good in my book.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:10 pm
by Ruiner
Mill - For such a famous and old theme, it is odd we haven't had a precon for it yet. There are definitely a ton of mill based cards already and I'm sure they could come up with more. UB seems like the obvious color combo.
Phasing - They've been slowly toying with bits of this mechanic here and there. Unfortunately, a lot of phasing cards are pretty terrible (
Teferi's Isle) but I'm sure there are plenty of ways they could elaborate on it. Maybe some commander who gets a bonus per phased out permanent, or triggers on phasing in or out (probably not both. UW seems like the obvious choice but maybe it could go some other color combo (partial red so that when things phase you burn stuff?).
Slide- This is totally unrealistic to hope for, but as someone who has loved
Astral Slide 60 card decks. I'd really like to play that in commander but the singleton nature makes it rough. A commander that's a creature with Slide's effect, heck make it RW and make it Slide + Lightning Rift or whatever.
Charge Counters - This or maybe energy. Just a "counters" deck not based on +1 or -1 counters could be interesting and different.
Vanishing - Not sure how deep this could go but it could be neat. Triggers revolving around loss of vanishing permanents. Giving permanents Vanishing. Maybe this is a sub theme with a delay or suspend mechanic too?
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:30 pm
by Couver
I would love to see amass!
Granted the current cards we have aren't great but I threw together a Grix amass deck and it has been fun to play. With the right commander it could be better.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:09 am
by Venedrex
Progress report, first crack at the Splice commander.
1. I know it has a lot issues, and it might not actually even work rules wise. In my defense, splice is weird.
2. Constructive feedback would be appreciated. Emphasis on constructive.
3. Power, execution, flavor are all still up in the air. This is just the prototype experiment, so take it with a massive grain of salt.
Text version of the card:
Weln, the Fusor
Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard (M)
: Until end of turn, each instant, sorcery, and creature card in your hand gains splice onto instant, sorcery, or creature. Its splice cost is equal to its mana cost.
(As you cast an instant, sorcery, or creature spell, you may reveal an instant, sorcery, or creature spell from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add that card's effect to that spell)
4/3
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:23 am
by Venedrex
OK, I think this hypothetical precon is going to look like this, but I could use some help deciding between color combinations for the last commander.
Mardu Vehicles
Temur Splice
Dimir Mill (With one of the alternate commanders caring about Surveil, or vice-versa)
Bant or Abzan Cumulative upkeep. There are more existing cards in blue for Cumulative upkeep, but Abzan seems like a cool place for this mechanic as well.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:30 am
by Guardman
So a wild card theme I was thinking about was Inspire, the ultimate meh mechanic. But hear me out. What if what was something like Jeskai Inspire with a vehicle & convoke subtheme to make tapping your inspire creatures really easy.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:48 am
by JWK
Guardman wrote: ↑3 years ago
What if what was something like Jeskai Inspire with a vehicle & convoke subtheme to make tapping your inspire creatures really easy.
That sounds kind of like "what if that turd was decorated with glitter and ribbons."
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:28 am
by pokken
I thought about this a bit and I have some other things I'd like in commander decks that are a bit of a tangent:P
1. All-foil decks (or at least all the new cards in foil)
For the love of all that's holy stop printing commander exclusives only available in non-foil. It's utterly infuriating to not be able to get
Cosmic Intervention in foil.
2. Real manabases
Just go ahead and print an elite commander deck with all the shocks checks and
Prismatic Vista +
Fabled Passage.
I hate that the manabases are so damn bad. 10 taplands is nonsense.
.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:50 am
by Serenade
Flip side: I want all nonfoils.
Volrath, the Shapestealer only existing as a foil is crap because they all bend. I'm glad they reprinted Kess and Breya in other sets.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:30 am
by Dragoon
@pokken @Serenade I think the best plan for that would be to make both versions available for each card: one in the precon, the other in the collector boosters. I find it sad they went with non-foil extended art in the collector boosters for the C21 new cards, when they could just have put the classic foils there.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:40 pm
by onering
JWK wrote: ↑3 years ago
Guardman wrote: ↑3 years ago
What if what was something like Jeskai Inspire with a vehicle & convoke subtheme to make tapping your inspire creatures really easy.
That sounds kind of like "what if that turd was decorated with glitter and ribbons."
No, he's onto something here. Inspired is a neat mechanic that was torpedoed by execution. Pseudo Inspired was pretty nice on merfolk in Lorwyn. It problems are that there are too few cards, spread over too many colors, and most are limited chaff. Its a neat mechanic in that it adds value to turning creatures sideways, but on a delay, and with the option to get that value if you tap them for something else. But there are solid Inspired cards.
Siren of the Silent Song is repeated discard for each opponent,
Pain Seer is a Bob you can turn off,
King Macar is repeated exile based removal and mana ramp,
Felhide Spiritbinder is a nice value engine even if it pales in comparison to Kiki Jiki,
Disciple of Deceit gives all your spells free transmute,
Daring Thief is a repeatable permanent theft engine that can steal anything, and
Arbiter of the Ideal is a repeatable value engine that cheats on costs. There's a lot of room left to explore this mechanic, and some additional support would be great.
On Madness: I agree, Anje is one of the most poorly designed commanders of all time. She was designed to be a madness commander, but they designed her to reward you for not actually playing the madness cards. She turns madness into a Cycling
0. She does nothing but helm all in glass cannon fast combo decks. She failed in every possible way at what she was supposed to be.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:33 pm
by Venedrex
onering wrote: ↑3 years ago
JWK wrote: ↑3 years ago
Guardman wrote: ↑3 years ago
What if what was something like Jeskai Inspire with a vehicle & convoke subtheme to make tapping your inspire creatures really easy.
That sounds kind of like "what if that turd was decorated with glitter and ribbons."
No, he's onto something here. Inspired is a neat mechanic that was torpedoed by execution. Pseudo Inspired was pretty nice on merfolk in Lorwyn. It problems are that there are too few cards, spread over too many colors, and most are limited chaff. Its a neat mechanic in that it adds value to turning creatures sideways, but on a delay, and with the option to get that value if you tap them for something else. But there are solid Inspired cards.
Siren of the Silent Song is repeated discard for each opponent,
Pain Seer is a Bob you can turn off,
King Macar is repeated exile based removal and mana ramp,
Felhide Spiritbinder is a nice value engine even if it pales in comparison to Kiki Jiki,
Disciple of Deceit gives all your spells free transmute,
Daring Thief is a repeatable permanent theft engine that can steal anything, and
Arbiter of the Ideal is a repeatable value engine that cheats on costs. There's a lot of room left to explore this mechanic, and some additional support would be great.
On Madness: I agree, Anje is one of the most poorly designed commanders of all time. She was designed to be a madness commander, but they designed her to reward you for not actually playing the madness cards. She turns madness into a Cycling
0. She does nothing but helm all in glass cannon fast combo decks. She failed in every possible way at what she was supposed to be.
I can definitely put some inspired cards in the (custom) Vehicles precon.
OK, I think I have the names for the individual precons:
Race to Victory (Vehicles)
or
Endless Strength (Cumulative Upkeep)
Molecular Mastery (Splice onto instant and sorcery.) .
Psychic Assault (Mill)
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:16 pm
by Venedrex
OK, new update, (if anyone cares lol) changing the splice commander to just work with just instants and sorceries. I spent a
long time trying to make it worth with creatures, but it made the text box bigger than
Animate Dead's, and I don't think it would've worked the way players may have wanted it to without changing the rules of splice even more, and even then it just ended up feeling like it should just be mutate instead.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:07 pm
by Gashnaw
Eminence. We only have 4 (6 if you count an illegal card and oloro)
Otherwise i want to go back to 2011 when they.were balanced and fair.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:25 pm
by DirkGently
Gashnaw wrote: ↑2 years ago
Eminence. We only have 4 (6 if you count an illegal card and oloro)
Ew.
Otherwise i want to go back to 2011 when they.were balanced and fair.
Tbh the precons were never all that fair. Animar, Edric...hell ghave is still a combo machine. The precons were a huge power spike and they are still plenty powerful (the commanders - the decks unmodified are trash lmao). And they weren't remotely balanced.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:37 pm
by 3drinks
Banding tbh. If phasing can come back, so can the best combat mechanic of all time. And while you're at it, take us back to Ulgrotha damnit.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:50 am
by Igzex
There was a time where I would agree that I'd love a return to Ulgrotha because as bad as homelands was, the plane itself was honestly kind of interesting.
But I also wished we came back to Kamigawa and what we got instead was Return to Daikatana so now I'm afraid of the WOTC monkey's paw...
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:50 am
by Krishnath
Igzex wrote: ↑2 years ago
There was a time where I would agree that I'd love a return to Ulgrotha because as bad as homelands was, the plane itself was honestly kind of interesting.
But I also wished we came back to Kamigawa and what we got instead was Return to Daikatana so now I'm afraid of the WOTC monkey's paw...
Please stop it with the "Homelands was bad" bull crap. It's painful to read and factually wrong.
Memory Lapse and
Merchant Scroll alone were strong cards at the time. I mean, a splashable two mana counterspell and a blue tutor is pretty good.
The set also had
Serrated Arrows, which was a tournament staple in control deck as a source of colorless removal, and
Autumn Willow that was in pretty much all Ehrna-geddon decks, not to mention
Eron the Relentless, that was used as a finisher in early Sligh builds.
In addition to these tournament staples, the set had a 6/2 for 4, an enchantment that prevented people from playing creatures (which found its home in later control decks.), a 3/3 for 2, a 4/5 wall for 4 that could attack, an artifact that allowed you to drop a minotaur onto the battlefield at instant speed for 3 mana, a blue flyer with protection from red, a 5/5 black creature with protection from white for only six mana (which was really friggin good at the time), an artifact that made all creatures more expensive to cast, a black
Propaganda, and
Leeches, the only spell that can remove poison counters from yourself. And more besides.
The set wasn't bad, it suffered because it was released next to Alliances which had over powered cards, and because it was overprinted. But calling it bad is disingenuous.
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:29 am
by folding_music
I don't think a set being bad or good has much to do with how powerful its iconic cards are tbh. I love Homelands' illustration and flavor but a lot of its cards are overly specific and hard to put in a deck. tbh the mechanic I wish they'd bring back from those days is Kaja Foglio
Re: What mechanics would you like to see in future Commander precon decks?
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:58 am
by Legend
tromple
