This is why Spoiler 2 in the OP ends with "With any luck, this information may clear up any general rules misunderstandings and misinformation that may be floating around.". Are people dismissing the OP because they enjoy death spiral arguments or because they still have PTSD from the original iteration? I assure you all that the new OP is more thoughtful in every regard.
onering wrote: ↑2 years ago
Bro, again, companion and venture didn't do anything to the outside the game argument. Companion was specifically changed to use the command zone in commander BECAUSE it wouldn't work otherwise. Venture has nothing to do with bringing in cards from outside the game.
One of us has been misinformed. I base all of my replies on the OP for which I got the information from the Comprehensive Rules and other official sources like Oracle and the PTR.
onering wrote: ↑2 years ago
You have to actually deal in facts and not just assertions if you want people to take your argument seriously.
My argument is this:
You can't ban a mechanic. That makes no sense at all. —
Sheldon Menery, The Spike Feeders, Episode 14,
28:05
All major concerns about
WISHING in Commander can be traced back to either rules or etiquette. The first of which is solved by comprehensive rules 101.1, 103.2, 108.3b, and 903.10 and the Oracle rule. The second of which is solved by the Commander Philosophy Document, the social contract, and the criteria for banning – namely, color-hosers and select
WISHES as needed.
PRACTICE: Rule 10 is the only reason
WISHING doesn't function in Commander. There is no longer a need for a
WISH rule because
WISHING in Commander is now thoroughly supported by existing comprehensive and Oracle rules.
PHILOSOPHY:
WISHING aligns with the Commander Philosophy Document and with philosophical statements about Commander made elsewhere by RC members.
PROTOCOL: As with all etiquette in Commander,
WISHING should be settled by the social contract both "before and during games" (Sheldon).
PROBLEMS: Each
WISH should be subject to the same criteria for banning as all other cards. Whatever issues
Karn, the Great Creator might pose is no reason for
Research // Development or
Study Break to not function.
Whatever evidence may have existed from 2002 is 100% utterly meaningless in 202[2]. – DirkGently
The RC's response to
WISHING during the formative and early years of Commander was entirely justified because
WISHING was indeed a debacle by no fault of their own. Perhaps it was even justified up to 5 years ago, but with all due respect, it just isn't justified today. The view that
WISHING is problematic has become petrified, frozen in time, dated, pertinent only in a bygone era, and a little insensitive to what's happening in Magic
now despite the streamlining of the rules, despite instant global access to those rules, despite Wizard's obvious intent to make
WISHING a normal part of the game, and despite the maturation of the Magic community as a whole regarding both acumen and peer consideration.
Five years ago, even the RC believed that the stuff people would do with
Painter's Servant would "far outweigh the cool stuff they'd do with it" until they realized that cards like Iona are the real problem. (Sheldon Menery – Commanderin' MTG Podcast E013, 34:00) But now look where we are. The same thing can – and should – happen with
WISHING.
tstorm823 wrote: ↑2 years ago
Legend wrote: ↑2 years ago
The sideboard argument is dead thanks to Companion and Venture.
Don't do that. You can't kill an argument. If you feel you've acknowledged something, say so in that way, or ignore it, don't declare victory.
Excuse me, but arguments
can be killed. The logic of the RC for Rule 10 was never "because sideboards" anyways, it was "we decided that outside the game containing nothing was the cleanest solution". But now, outside the game in Commander
always contains three Dungeons and may contain up to one qualifying card with Companion.
That isn't nothing. Therefore, argument dead.
Hermes_ wrote: ↑2 years ago
Legend wrote: ↑2 years ago
Hermes_ wrote: ↑2 years ago
Again I ask, have you gotten on the discord and discussed this?
No. Currently, I don't have the time. I barely had time for this. And I really don't care for discords, TBH. They're messy, IMO. I also feel like that would be like going into the proverbial dragon's lair, where I'd have to spend countless hours - again - hacking and slashing my way through undead arguments to get to the dragon(s). (Sorry for what seems like an out-of-nowhere analogy, I've been obsessing over D&D with what little free time I've had lately.) I dunno, maybe one day I will.
so, you're just using this thread to vent gotcha
Nah, I just have a genuine dislike of the Discord interface, I'm busy for the foreseeable future, and am using what little free time I have to play D&D. I am a member of the Discord and have poked around there a bit. Maybe one day, I'll return but not right now.
The hell if it doesn't. Not when the premier logic of the RC was "we decided outside the game contains nothing".