MTGNexus

And I think I would yay relic of legends as a second honor worn shaku. The two altars are definitively better though.

edit: no one is mentioning the eleventh hour unexpectedly absent submission. That's fine, but I'll make a call by end of day of it remains vacant.

Unexpectedly Absent is a weird one. It's a more flexible Submerge for ww. Which, thinking about it, is pretty darn good. Yea to Unexpectedly Absent.

Yeah ill jump on Absent too. Its a lot better than it looks on the surface. Yea from me.

yaya absent
It's always useful.

Time got away from me and I neither voted nor explained my reasoning on relic.

Yea Toxic Deluge and Unexpectedly Absent. The potential asymmetry of board wipes are interesting. I'm less familiar with absent, but it's rather efficient, if not permanent.

I think that we're planning to play a lot of self sacrificing lands for Lulu, right?

I think it's safe to say that all of Unexpectedly Absent, Toxic Deluge (man that price really cratered), and Relic of Legends. That should bring us up to 62/64.

With potentially the last two picks on the line, I'm putting @Dunharrow and @aliciaofthevast on the clock.

Crazy Monkey wrote: ↑

1 year ago

I think that we're planning to play a lot of self sacrificing lands for Lulu, right?

At least 4-6, by my count.

I am really conflicted for this one

I think we want another wrath, and was thinking to nominate Damn.
I think we need Lulu out for this deck to work and we have a bit of an equipment package, so I really think Lightning Greaves should be in here. Giving Lulu haste also works as an additional tap effect.
I also think we need a free repeatable sac outlet (sac the board, bring them all back with Undying). I like phyrexian/Ashnod's Altar, Yahenni or Viscera Seer for that.

Then there are just strong cards like Erebos, Bleak-Hearted, Rankle, Master of Pranks, Eradicator Valkyrie, Plaguecrafter and Sidisi, Undead Vizier

I have been looking at this for 15 minutes. I was going to choose Phyrexian Altar but we already have 20 artifacts, which seems really high.
I am going to nominate Viscera Seer instead. It can help us dig, comes down early, is really good at saving our creatures from exile effects.

If we make a pass and find some artifacts to trim, I could see swapping Viscera seer for an altar.
I just don't think we can be at 27 creatures and 21 artifacts in this type of deck.

Yea Viscera Seer.

Yay Viscera Seer.

@3drinks since its near the end I'll ask now. are we going to revote the pending?

Yea Viscera Seer. Free sacrifice outlets that are creatures have a lot of power in decks like this.

Viscera Seer is a yea. The reasoning absolutely tracks.

duducrash wrote: ↑

1 year ago

Yay Viscera Seer.

@3drinks since its near the end I'll ask now. are we going to revote the pending?

We are. I'll probably initiate that when I insert the mana for everyone to vote over.

How about Cosmic Intervention for the last pick? I was really tempted to go with doomskar because three mana sweepers are pretty good buuuutttttt I think cosmic pulls more weight here?

Definite yay for viscera seer!

I know I've enjoyed Cosmic Intervention a bunch in Kaalia, Zenith Seeker. I imagine it's just as good here? Yay.

Cosmic intervention lets us play our gameplan even when Lulu and our background are being hated on. It's a one-time effect, so I worry about it sitting in our hand waiting for the right time, but foretell helps a lot.

I yay.

Safe to say everyone weighed in on the last few cards? If so I will tally it up after work, sort out the mana, and then we can do the last minute batch of cuts of former picks that we pivoted on latre.

Good news. I tallied the last picks and added a basic lands package and that list for us all to sign off on is here. Bad news, when I was keeping tabs on the count, I didn't count the background and commander, so we need to cut two cards >_<

edit: Replacing Roadside Reliquary with Silent Clearing, as the canopy falls under the budget cap and provides the same effect (we're pretty enchantment light). Replacing Faceless Haven with High Market. I valued the changeling being on type, but Market was more important and it's absence an oversight.

Comments on the manabase that @3drinks added:

With both Sword of the Animist and Sword of Hearth and Home, we definitely want more than 9 basics IMHO. Those can do some crazy work, and I'd never want to risk running out of basics before having pretty near all the mana I could use. Especially with all the other basic searching stuff we've got, 9 basics strikes me as pretty greedy, and I'd expect to run out at inconvenient times in an annoyingly large number of games. Probably not the majority, but enough to be a real pain on a pretty regular basis. Upping the count to ~12 should be sufficient for that. I'd happily cut the Goldmire Bridge and probably either the Shineshadow Snarl or Concealed Courtyard for a couple more. I also don't really feel like it'd be worth tracking down sufficient snow basics to run Faceless Haven profitably, and cutting colorless sources doesn't faze me at all. Particularly when we already have four other manlands. This last one is me being a bit lazy in the deck construction side of things, though. I would also definitely swap Ash Barrens for Esper Panorama in this deck. The panorama triggers revolt, after all. How's Roadside Reliquary been for you all, by the way? Saccing a land seems like way too steep a cost from my perspective, and only getting to use it once to maybe draw 2 has felt like too small a payoff. I've been quite fond of Arch of Orazca to make flooding not a problem, myself, but then, I've always been a draw-go kinda guy.

I'm not going to reply to all of that yet (but boy do I have a lot to say) as I'd like to let others digest it, but I'll note those reveal lands, especially in fetch-less 2c decks, are trivially easy to ensure they enter untapped. And they are ridiculously inexpensive (contrast with an Isolated Chapel for instance). I don't think these are ever a cut, but especially not a cut in such a budget minded list.

And as a reminder, on lands remember we're keeping the dollar cost cap at ~$9/land.

3drinks wrote: ↑

1 year ago

I'm not going to reply to all of that yet (but boy do I have a lot to say) as I'd like to let others digest it,

Looking forward to hearing it.

3drinks wrote: ↑

1 year ago

but I'll note those reveal lands, especially in fetch-less 2c decks, are trivially easy to ensure they enter untapped. And they are ridiculously inexpensive (contrast with an Isolated Chapel for instance). I don't think these are ever a cut, but especially not a cut in such a budget minded list.

And as a reminder, on lands remember we're keeping the dollar cost cap at ~$9/land.

Personally, I've found them to be quite an annoyance later on in the game. Early game they're fine enough, though, I suppose. They just don't stay good into the late game very well. Also we're not exactly fetchless. We're just not playing the strong and expensive fetches. We are playing pretty much every budget basic fetch out there, though, even up to Warped Landscape and Terminal Moraine (which I fully approve of, by the way. They fit the deck well).

What about the lands that sac creatures?
High Market
Miren, the Moaning Well might not be worth it for the price tag
Phyrexian Tower is definitely worth it for the price tag

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

1 year ago

What about the lands that sac creatures?
High Market
Miren, the Moaning Well might not be worth it for the price tag
Phyrexian Tower is definitely worth it for the price tag

I thought I had high market in there, so that's an easy swap. The others violate the budget cap for what is otherwise performed by market + the rest of the deck, especially Miren. Like I wouldn't pay $23 for this card. I love PhyTow but man that price is so unreasonable for it based on how many prints it has.

What are everyone's thoughts on the CIP sac fetches from New Cappena, like Obscura Storefront? I've had a hard time evaluating them in a vacuum and am curious about people's experiences.

I don't actually like them. Unlike panoramas and the warped landscape cycle they can't be used for mana until you need a crack, and unlike terramorphic and evolving, they can't be held to crack when it's wanted, they just happen. That tells me they are worse than all options.

notably, they combo with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth