MTGNexus

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Wednesday, August 14th, 2019; Goblin Lore/Control of the Court

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goblin lore can work in the madness deck?
and even though I have a disdain for situational magic
if you cast this with some. . .a. . .any madness cards in hand it could be fun. the low casting cost associated with madness costs could yield a really "cool" turn.
that being said you gotta live that at-random-lifestyle

hmm this card seems like a hard one to cast for value, I love the numbers, but random 3, ill need a tall glass of milk if you know what I mean, and what I mean is this card is like a super dry stale cookie.

(two thumbs up emoji)

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

More importantly, you're running knowledge pool on the off-chance you ult your terrible planeswalker.

That's definitely not accurate. :laugh:

Don't have these in my collection...looking at those price tags, kinda wish I did. But honestly it seems like such a crapshoot for value in most decks. How many hits do you realistically have in your deck? And for something like locust god, you need it to actually remain in play to get value...that's not a small barrier, especially when you're staring at this clunker stuck on 4 mana. A lot less value in the efficiency of a 2-mana card when you need to play a 6-drop first.

This looks like the kind of cute synergy card you get all excited about when you start building, and then you end up cutting it for something less cute and more reliable.

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

4 years ago

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

More importantly, you're running knowledge pool on the off-chance you ult your terrible planeswalker.

That's definitely not accurate. :laugh:

I actually don't know what you mean. The "more importantly" part (arguable), the "terrible" part (I stand by that, nahiri sucks (although I remember liking the original version)), or...some other part? Or are you just kidding?

I am one of those few to play both Goblin Lore and Control of the Court in one of my decks. And I most say, they shrine in that deck (which plays alot out of it's graveyard). Sometimes, in perfect magic-wonder-land, I'll also have Alhammarret's Archive in play, and then they dig really deep. When you have Past in Flames in your hand, popping off a Goblin Lore isn't that worrisome, and sometimes you just need to dig deep.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

4 years ago

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

More importantly, you're running knowledge pool on the off-chance you ult your terrible planeswalker.

That's definitely not accurate. :laugh:

I actually don't know what you mean. The "more importantly" part (arguable), the "terrible" part (I stand by that, nahiri sucks (although I remember liking the original version)), or...some other part? Or are you just kidding?

The not accurate part was the "running Knowledge Pool on the off chance you ult Nahiri". The Pool isn't in the deck because of her — it was in the list long before she was.

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

4 years ago

The not accurate part was the "running Knowledge Pool on the off chance you ult Nahiri". The Pool isn't in the deck because of her — it was in the list long before she was.

Ah, I thought we were talking about a theoretical list, not tstorms specific list.

I mean yeah, if you're already running both of them and nahiri happens to get to ultimate range, it's not a crazy target.

So, about that goblin lore...

Haha — I kinda like Goblin Lore, but I'm not sure I'll ever try it, mostly because of that price tag vs the effect. I already don't run Faithless Looting, Tormenting Voice, or Cathartic Reunion in my Zada deck, and that's the first deck I think of for Lore because of its low cost to dig (though Honor the God-Pharoah might get a spot because it makes a token).

Sinis wrote: ↑

4 years ago

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

In modern it's role is to just brute force cards in the yard and then you cast a bunch of free hollowed ones assuming you didn't discard them.

I'll be honest, I find that whole deck infuriating, and I don't even play modern. Gamble-for-Hollow-One looks like such disappointing gameplay.

Yeah, I don't get the appeal of it. It's like playing RNG. And with that Infernal Reckoning plant, I'd never even think about sleeving that mess up.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

And with that Infernal Reckoning plant, I'd never even think about sleeving that mess up.

I thought that was to counter Eldrazi....

Sinis wrote: ↑

4 years ago

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

And with that Infernal Reckoning plant, I'd never even think about sleeving that mess up.

I thought that was to counter Eldrazi....

Six of one. But nah, it was a plant to screw up the RNG of the Hollow One deck.

That word "random" always bothers me. I mean, I guess with Alhammarret's Archive, it becomes okay, but then you're probably playing blue, green, or black.

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

4 years ago

That word "random" always bothers me. I mean, I guess with Alhammarret's Archive, it becomes okay, but then you're probably playing blue, green, or black.

Archive is such a trap card though. The epitome of win-more, it does nothing unless you're in position to draw more cards. So saying a card is good with something that is win-more, I feel, does not make for a valid argument for another bad card. What happens when you draw either separately? You're certainly not burning Mystical Tutor for freakin Control of the Court just because you have Archive, nor are you burning Enlightened Tutor for the Archive because you have Goblin Lore.

I think the better (best case scenario for them), is in the old Temur Madness decks (which are really Simic splash R honestly) where this acts as careful study 5-12.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Archive is such a trap card though. The epitome of win-more, it does nothing unless you're in position to draw more cards. So saying a card is good with something that is win-more, I feel, does not make for a valid argument for another bad card.

I don't necessarily think the usual "win-more" arguments really apply in the same way to commander. People will rightly call cards in limited that are only good when you have 4+ creatures "win-more" because usually 4 creatures is enough that you're usually winning in 1v1 limited. But in commander, with multiple opponents and 40 life, it takes a LOT more to win, and even if you are currently winning, it usually doesn't take much for you to stop winning - one board wipe, one counterspell, one removal could be the difference, and you've got 3 opponents that could be playing one.

Not say I would run archive without a good reason, but I don't think it's a trap. In commander I think it's way more reasonable to run cards that will sometimes do nothing but will sometimes be AMAZING - nothing cards are more ok because they'll keep pressure off you, and amazing cards are what you're going to need to win the game.

Not that the goblin lore combo alone is a good reason to run archive or anything, but I'd maybe choose to run both of them in locust god independently (although idk, as I've said I think goblin lore is maybe too cute - but if you have a bunch of synergies like archive maybe it starts to look better).

Thursday, August 15th, 2019; Aetherworks Marvel

I keep wanting to make good use of Aetherworks Marvel, but I don't think I've found a good spot yet. Maybe if I ever build Mazirek. I slotted it into Chainer for testing but have some doubts about how useful it will be there. Ideally I'd be activating it on every one of my turns at the least, but if I've got the tokens to spare to secure that than I'm probably in a position (or very close to a position) to win soon. However, if I imagine a version of Chainer where I don't use loops at all, this starts to have more appeal.

I think that if you want to build around AM, you probably are building some kind of loop or combo that has extra steps to include AM. Unfortunately, you can't just throw it into a deck for value, as there is not enough support.

Best I can see it doing is that if you play a token deck that doesn't have a way to stop wraths, AM can help you reset after a boardwipe.

I tested it in Teysa a while ago, but wasn't that happy with its performance - with no other energy production, needing to have six permanents die before I can activate it once is a pretty steep cost. Being able to cast stuff for free is certainly nice, but my curve didn't have enough expensive nonsense to really take advantage. So, swapped it for a different, more efficient draw engine. It does seem interesting in a tokens deck, but something like Fecundity or Dark Prophecy is more consistent.

If you are going to try to make it work, I think it is important to build your deck around it - either by adding other energy production / proliferate, or by running even more expendable permanents (token producers that make 6+ bodies, eggs, fetchlands, etc).

I remember there was a guy that was excited to ram it into his Marchesa, the Black Rose. I don't remember it taking on too dominant a role in there. However, that deck saw it fit to Jokulhaups finish, so I avoided interacting with it too much think Marchesa's one of the better commanders for it, but there are already so many other (likely better) things you could be doing with her. That's probably how the card will also shake out in other potential brews.

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I keep wanting to make good use of Aetherworks Marvel, but I don't think I've found a good spot yet. Maybe if I ever build Mazirek. I slotted it into Chainer for testing but have some doubts about how useful it will be there. Ideally I'd be activating it on every one of my turns at the least, but if I've got the tokens to spare to secure that than I'm probably in a position (or very close to a position) to win soon. However, if I imagine a version of Chainer where I don't use loops at all, this starts to have more appeal.

Hmm, tokens, huh. Endrek Sahr, is that you?

I want to try it in Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, since you can proliferate the energy counters and you're going to sacrifice a lot of tokens anyways.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I keep wanting to make good use of Aetherworks Marvel, but I don't think I've found a good spot yet. Maybe if I ever build Mazirek. I slotted it into Chainer for testing but have some doubts about how useful it will be there. Ideally I'd be activating it on every one of my turns at the least, but if I've got the tokens to spare to secure that than I'm probably in a position (or very close to a position) to win soon. However, if I imagine a version of Chainer where I don't use loops at all, this starts to have more appeal.

Hmm, tokens, huh. Endrek Sahr, is that you?

Abhorrent Overlord, mostly, though I'm currently also running Pawn, Sifter, and Wurmcoil for combos with Chainer and Phyrexian Altar. Endrek would certainly be useful for tokens from loops with XHD. I haven't actually tried Endrek yet and probably should.

I mean it feels pretty darned strong in a dedicated energy + huge spells deck. There're some pretty powerful energy cards.

It'd probably be pretty weak overall but I think you could build something marginally playable.

If energy ever pops up again Marvel might be bigger, but as it is it's in an odd spot for commander where it's scarier looking than it actually is.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

4 years ago

That word "random" always bothers me. I mean, I guess with Alhammarret's Archive, it becomes okay, but then you're probably playing blue, green, or black.

Archive is such a trap card though. The epitome of win-more, it does nothing unless you're in position to draw more cards. So saying a card is good with something that is win-more, I feel, does not make for a valid argument for another bad card. What happens when you draw either separately? You're certainly not burning Mystical Tutor for freakin Control of the Court just because you have Archive, nor are you burning Enlightened Tutor for the Archive because you have Goblin Lore.

There is a trick to it; It's better with looting, e.g. "draw two cards, then discard a card" is now "draw four cards, then discard a card". Though you're not going to be wasting a tutor on it.

Anyway, Aetherworks Marvel works in some decks, but like every parasitic mechanic ever, it's hampered by playing substandard cards just so you have enough of the mechanic to make it worth it.

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Anyway, Aetherworks Marvel works in some decks, but like every parasitic mechanic ever, it's hampered by playing substandard cards just so you have enough of the mechanic to make it worth it.

I agree with you, but for the idea that Marvel could potentially produce enough energy to power itself.

I can see Aetherworks Marvel fitting in an Aristocrats-style deck. You wouldn't need to include many (any?) other energy cards; Marvel will be able to activate on its own in that kind of deck that continually churns bodies around. It'd be another 'reward' card like Blood Artist; for every 6 bodies you churn, cast a card for free from the top six of your library.