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Necroduality does largely the same thing, and at half the cost, and it doesn't see much play here.devilcatz wrote: ↑9 months agoLegion Loyalty is costly but is awesome. Myriad = Massive ETBs zombies. Massive Varina triggers!
Unlikely to be cast much. Lol.
That's fair. There's no need for Lili if you're not planning to combo, I guess. I'd say there's every reason to just chuck a lord in her place to maximise combat.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months agoMaybe it is just me playing Liliana, Untouched by Death wrong as I play those things. Haakon has been okay and fine utility, altars are insane, have some tutors and the deck can go Infinite but I guess that might not be where I want Varina to be at for how I want to play the Deck
yeah Rooftop Storm is pretty busted in a zombie. Before Varina got printed I had a Gisa and Geralf deck. Havengul Lich is among the most busted in that deck. Cast demonic tutor for one generic mana is insane. And if you can't win of that then what are you doing?pzbw7z wrote: ↑9 months agoLiliana, Untouched by Death can do spectacular things with Rooftop Storm. Fleshbag Marauder can clear all of your opponents creatures. Sidisi, Undead Vizier can tutor up every card in your deck - so many ways to win!
Without RS, Lili probably is pretty unspectacular.
I've found Crown of Gondor to be very good. Not sure it's stellar here, but I've had it in Bruna for a bit and it does great work there.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months agoI do have a card I would like to try out in the deck, which is Court of Ardenvale. Certainly not to play it as the most optimal for the deck, but as a midrange engine piece. With the great amount of permanents with 3 cmc or less either to hand or keeping the Monarch getting it to the battlefield. Though in reality I am looking for some nice cards that can introduce the Monarch to more of my EDH games. Though sadly Custodi Lich is just such a bad card and isn't what I am looking for.
Seems like a fine card, though likely not one I would play. It can't really steal the crown back once it gets introduced.toctheyounger wrote: ↑9 months agoI've found Crown of Gondor to be very good. Not sure it's stellar here, but I've had it in Bruna for a bit and it does great work there.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months agoI do have a card I would like to try out in the deck, which is Court of Ardenvale. Certainly not to play it as the most optimal for the deck, but as a midrange engine piece. With the great amount of permanents with 3 cmc or less either to hand or keeping the Monarch getting it to the battlefield. Though in reality I am looking for some nice cards that can introduce the Monarch to more of my EDH games. Though sadly Custodi Lich is just such a bad card and isn't what I am looking for.
I think it depends on what type of play patterns you what in the game. To me Grave Pact , Dictate of Erebos and Martyr's Bond are certainly powerful, though I think Noxious Ghoul serves a similar purpose for what edict cards. Ghoul works better for me as it can be reanimated with the many single target spells or mass reanimation spells.pzbw7z wrote: ↑9 months agoAnyone on Grave Pact? I pulled one - two, actually - during the pre-release and it's got me thinking about giving it a go. The problem is, I'd probably have to cut Tombstone Stairwell for it, which I'm loathe to do. The only other reasonable option is Rooftop Storm but they will have to pry that from my cold, dead fingers.
Silversmote Ghoul was in a previous build of mine and is always on my radar when I make adjustments. It is fairly easy to get it on the field and three life isn't hard to get with Varina.
If only it weren't 3-MV. There's such a glut of spells at that value.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months agoSilversmote Ghoul was in a previous build of mine and is always on my radar when I make adjustments. It is fairly easy to get it on the field and three life isn't hard to get with Varina.
With a good amount of cheap reaccuring creatures it should be fairly great to have. Martyr's Bond, Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos gets very nice with the Sac on Silversmote Ghoul. Attack, trigger Varina, loot three gain three life, pay two sac ghoul to draw a card, get it back at end step
While true it is also very discardable. So you don't necessary need to play it on turn three. Attack with three, have it be discarded, get it back at the end. Still pretty good to me I would saypzbw7z wrote: ↑9 months agoIf only it weren't 3-MV. There's such a glut of spells at that value.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months agoSilversmote Ghoul was in a previous build of mine and is always on my radar when I make adjustments. It is fairly easy to get it on the field and three life isn't hard to get with Varina.
With a good amount of cheap reaccuring creatures it should be fairly great to have. Martyr's Bond, Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos gets very nice with the Sac on Silversmote Ghoul. Attack, trigger Varina, loot three gain three life, pay two sac ghoul to draw a card, get it back at end step
The card draw and the ability to return to hand are very appealing. It's just hard to justify another 3-MV card. I'd have to cut something and I'm loathe to part with anything.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months agoWhile true it is also very discardable. So you don't necessary need to play it on turn three. Attack with three, have it be discarded, get it back at the end. Still pretty good to me I would saypzbw7z wrote: ↑9 months agoIf only it weren't 3-MV. There's such a glut of spells at that value.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months ago
Silversmote Ghoul was in a previous build of mine and is always on my radar when I make adjustments. It is fairly easy to get it on the field and three life isn't hard to get with Varina.
With a good amount of cheap reaccuring creatures it should be fairly great to have. Martyr's Bond, Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos gets very nice with the Sac on Silversmote Ghoul. Attack, trigger Varina, loot three gain three life, pay two sac ghoul to draw a card, get it back at end step
Silversmote Ghoul doesn't return to hand it returns to the field tapped. Still makes me want to build a different version of Varina with these annoying creatures that keep returningpzbw7z wrote: ↑9 months agoThe card draw and the ability to return to hand are very appealing. It's just hard to justify another 3-MV card. I'd have to cut something and I'm loathe to part with anything.
My mistake. That isn't necessarily strictly better for Varina. Master of Death appeals because it can be repeatedly pitched to Varina. Still, the sac and draw of Ghoul seems nice.Rframpt wrote: ↑9 months agoSilversmote Ghoul doesn't return to hand it returns to the field tapped. Still makes me want to build a different version of Varina with these annoying creatures that keep returning
I've never tried Flawless Maneuver. I've got a Grave Pact now and I plan to try it. Sadly, it will probably have to take the place of Tombstone Stairwell. I probably need another one drop, but I don't want to make room for something that isn't spectacular, so probably not the kitty. Swords is a beautiful card, I played it when it was in type 2 (Standard today) and it's still probably the gold standard but I currently value flexibility so my removal has to work for multiple permanent types. Cyclonic Rift is in the top fifteen saltiest cards - and my deck - for a good reason! I want to try Withered Wretch, but I'd probably have to cut Tidehollow to make room. Mox Diamond is out of the budget.Reya wrote: ↑9 months ago- Flawless Maneuver: it should allow us to keep swinging regardless your opponents throw at us. It can also works almost like a free counterspell. Probably a card you can cut but I need to give a try. We can probably replace it with a counterspell or a tutor.
- Grave Pact: this one is not always easy to cast but this effect garanties we can keep using Varina ability. Our opponents won't want to loose their board by blocking a bunch of 1/1 and 2/2.
- Zombie Master: maybe one of the few lord I'm happy to play. Amazing with Urborg and keep Varina digging. Players often play black.
- Dreadmalkin: keeps the curve low. Enters untapped so you can better use it with Springleaf drum and Cryptbreaker.
- Swords to plowshare: I often found myself in situation where I absolutely remove an annoying creature at cheap cost. I have room to include this and I see no downside to this card.
- Cyclonic Rift: I found this better than Winds of Abandon. Instant speed is more flexible and you can get ride of quite anything.
- Withered Wretch: often I want to remove a critical card from a opponent graveyard. Plus, the 1 mana zombies slots are already full.
- Tidehollow sculler: seeing opponent hand is a huge advantage. Plus, you can permanently exile a card thanks to ours sac outletls (and like Withered Wretch, 1 mana zombies slots are full).
- Mox Diamond: the deck can easily afford to discard a land for this, given the fact we run Land Tax, Tithe and Crucible of Worlds.
Dread return has some combo potential, but I haven't given it a try yet. I agree about Intervention and Dictate. Husk is three-MV and it's tough to justify another card at that value.Reya wrote: ↑9 months agoSome cards I add really bad feeling each time I drew them:
- Cosmic intervention: never I wanted to keep 4 mana up. Even when foretold it does not worth the cost for me. Problem is you can't loop this as much as you want. The niche play you can do with fetchland is... too niche !
- Dread return: I never encountered a situation where I wanted to use it. The cost is too much for what it does. A mass reanimation can takes that slot.
Card I will maybe put back in at some point:
- Dictate of Erebos: flashing this is so powerful but 5 mana is quite big. For now grave pact does the job perfectly.
- Nantuko Husk: maybe if I feel the need for one more sac outlet. Espcialy since I play Grave Pact.
Cosmic Intervention has been a fine card for me. Though I also play Rise of the Dread Marn and only ever play them from the foretell zone. Both help when you have backup for potential boardwipes of which there are many in my meta. Also my deck is a good mix of spot removal and boardwipes, so both cards work for me if I wipe and then get to quickly rebuild again.Reya wrote: ↑9 months agoHello,
After a few games I wanted to share my thouhts on my current list of Varina. Here is the link to my actual testing list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/LyhWR3lW40ee9SnmZ3AjmA
Thanks to toctheyounger and pokken, I think I almost found a definitive version of Varina that I like. The list is very low to the ground and combo oriented.
I wanted to gave my advice on some "flex" slots:
- Flawless Maneuver: it should allow us to keep swinging regardless your opponents throw at us. It can also works almost like a free counterspell. Probably a card you can cut but I need to give a try. We can probably replace it with a counterspell or a tutor.
- Grave Pact: this one is not always easy to cast but this effect garanties we can keep using Varina ability. Our opponents won't want to loose their board by blocking a bunch of 1/1 and 2/2.
- Zombie Master: maybe one of the few lord I'm happy to play. Amazing with Urborg and keep Varina digging. Players often play black.
- Dreadmalkin: keeps the curve low. Enters untapped so you can better use it with Springleaf drum and Cryptbreaker.
- Swords to plowshare: I often found myself in situation where I absolutely remove an annoying creature at cheap cost. I have room to include this and I see no downside to this card.
- Cyclonic Rift: I found this better than Winds of Abandon. Instant speed is more flexible and you can get ride of quite anything.
- Withered Wretch: often I want to remove a critical card from a opponent graveyard. Plus, the 1 mana zombies slots are already full.
- Tidehollow sculler: seeing opponent hand is a huge advantage. Plus, you can permanently exile a card thanks to ours sac outletls (and like Withered Wretch, 1 mana zombies slots are full).
- Mox Diamond: the deck can easily afford to discard a land for this, given the fact we run Land Tax, Tithe and Crucible of Worlds.
Some cards I add really bad feeling each time I drew them:
- Cosmic intervention: never I wanted to keep 4 mana up. Even when foretold it does not worth the cost for me. Problem is you can't loop this as much as you want. The niche play you can do with fetchland is... too niche !
- Dread return: I never encountered a situation where I wanted to use it. The cost is too much for what it does. A mass reanimation can takes that slot.
Card I will maybe put back in at some point:
- Dictate of Erebos: flashing this is so powerful but 5 mana is quite big. For now grave pact does the job perfectly.
- Nantuko Husk: maybe if I feel the need for one more sac outlet. Espcialy since I play Grave Pact.