Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:20 pm
Cast not copy.
It'll still do what Precursor does, just less insanely than it would have.
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Unreleased and New Card Discussion
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Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:29 pm
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:37 pm
- Orvar, the All-Form seems like complete nonsense. Cast Dream's Grip, get a Clever Impersonator? Seems extremely abusable. I'm a sucker for Ghostly Flicker + Archaeomancer shenanigans.
- Doomskar looks like a very solid board wipe option. The ability to foretell on turn 2 and cast on turn 3 means it can come down earlier than Day of Judgment, which may be relevant for other formats. As for EDH... I'm not sure if 2 + 3 mana is easier to pay than 4 mana, but having an extra mana the turn you cast it makes rebuilding a bit easier, which is nice.
- The Three Seasons seems like a reasonable recursion option for snow decks.
- Birgi, God of Storytelling seems... potentially abusable. Harnfel is a very strong loot engine.
- Dream Devourer intrigues me. As above, it's not clear how valuable it is to pre-pay a bit of your spells' costs. It does seem strong if you have a way to capitalize on those tempo plays. That said, Dream Devourer seems particularly exciting for decks like Malfegor that plan to be discarding their hand. BFFs with Sire of Insanity.
- The Bloodsky Massacre is an enabler for berserker tribal decks.
- I initially missed that Graven Lore is an instant. Does seem better, although five mana is still a bit of an awkward slot for card draw spells.
- Svella, Ice Shaper is durdley and amuses me. I initially discounted it, but I might consider it for my Samut deck. Frontier Guide felt a bit too slow, but reducing the cost of the ability by 1 and giving you the new piece of mana untapped makes Svella look a lot better, even if artifacts don't have as many synergies with the deck as lands.
- Tyrite Sanctum is a way to make any legendary creature into an indestructible god, which seems interesting for some decks. The base case of just pumping up a voltron commander with a +1/+1 counter every turn isn't terrible either.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:16 pm
It amuses me that three of us answered the question about activated abilities during the untap step, that we basically all said the same things, but that we all used different examples of things triggering when you untap.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:16 pm
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:34 pm
I just want a version that hits all opponents something like
Beating A Dead Horse:2BB
Sorcery
Each opponent discards two cards, if a player discards fewer than two cards this way, you draw cards equal to the difference.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:02 am
Is Syphon Mind not good enough for you?
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:35 am
As a black mage my greed has no bounds as playing JUST...ONE copy of syphon mind isn't enough!
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:54 am
I do wish Urgoros's "if they can't" clause applied to all discard, not just his combat trigger. But mostly that's because he's laughably unplayable as is, and I find that a waste.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:24 pm
Battle Mammoth|63575's alt art is sick.
Kaya's Onslaught - So I assume that means Kaya has killed Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider and the Ghost Council of Orzhova (Kaya's Wrath)? That's... super lame. I have a massive distaste for how planewalkers just stroll around and murderize super powerful and interesting beings across the multiverse. Admittedly, I don't read any of the non-magic card related stuff so maybe that's just been standard forever. Yet it irks me every time it happens. I even disliked Anguished Unmaking even though that one made sense. I find planeswalkers to be way less interesting than every other card.
Borborygmos was a massive reason I liked Gruul. He added so much flavor... Domri Rade did not. Give me more Soul Diviner and less Kaya's Onslaught
Kaya's Onslaught - So I assume that means Kaya has killed Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider and the Ghost Council of Orzhova (Kaya's Wrath)? That's... super lame. I have a massive distaste for how planewalkers just stroll around and murderize super powerful and interesting beings across the multiverse. Admittedly, I don't read any of the non-magic card related stuff so maybe that's just been standard forever. Yet it irks me every time it happens. I even disliked Anguished Unmaking even though that one made sense. I find planeswalkers to be way less interesting than every other card.
Borborygmos was a massive reason I liked Gruul. He added so much flavor... Domri Rade did not. Give me more Soul Diviner and less Kaya's Onslaught
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:39 pm
But don't you know planeswalkers are the bestest characters and it's up to them to solve everyone else's problems/plot threads?
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:40 pm
I think you may need some air quotes on that "solve".BeneTleilax wrote: ↑3 years agoBut don't you know planeswalkers are the bestest characters and it's up to them to solve everyone else's problems/plot threads?
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:35 pm
was just thinking about Foretell and realized I basically had a CMC 1 Ranar the Ever-Watchful already in my collection: Thran Turbine! like it lets you foretell for free each of your upkeeps, basically another Sol Ring in a dedicated foretell deck
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:57 pm
Oh yes, i can completely ignore Birgi's second ability to build some broken storm deck. Very nice and fun design!BeneTleilax wrote: ↑3 years agoYou're reading these way too narrow. Vega works with Suspend, Flashback, and any number of cards you cheat in from other zones. Birgi is going to be at the helm of some Storm deck just for her first ability alone. Also, if you want an Orzhov angel commander, Liesse still exists.
Vega is not that bad but to me is another "draw a card" boring legend. Ranar on the other hand could interesting but with only 19 azorius foretell cards (including draft chaff) he's not going anywhere.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:06 pm
You're presuming a lot off very little info. We know that Kaya attacks Vorinclex, as she's already done in the story... but he escapes that time. Shockingly, a character making a quip before stabbing another character explictly shown to regenerate from lethal injuries (he had his arm chopped off, for pete's sake, and grew it back) does not, in fact, constitute proof positive that the character is dead.materpillar wrote: ↑3 years agoKaya's Onslaught - So I assume that means Kaya has killed Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider and the Ghost Council of Orzhova (Kaya's Wrath)? That's... super lame. I have a massive distaste for how planewalkers just stroll around and murderize super powerful and interesting beings across the multiverse. Admittedly, I don't read any of the non-magic card related stuff so maybe that's just been standard forever. Yet it irks me every time it happens. I even disliked Anguished Unmaking even though that one made sense. I find planeswalkers to be way less interesting than every other card.
Now, that said, Vorinclex is standing in for Grendel in the story, which doesn't work out great for Grendel in mythology proper. So it's quite possible that Vorinclex will get taken down over the course of the story. But I'm pretty confident this card represents their initial confrontation, and her managing to get an upper hand in the fight, but not able to finish him off before he escapes.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:19 pm
Starnheim Courser
Each year we get one step closer to the pegasus enchantress deck of my dreams.
Each year we get one step closer to the pegasus enchantress deck of my dreams.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:24 pm
Probably goes into jankier/more budget voltron decks as a cheapener that carries a sword decently.Serenade wrote: ↑3 years agoStarnheim Courser
Each year we get one step closer to the pegasus enchantress deck of my dreams.
Icebreaker Kraken seems like some sort of miserable loop waiting to happen.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:33 pm
I sympathize with your statement, though I'm slightly in opposition. Personally while I don't care who does the deed, I prefer to see the bad guys die, because senseless violence etc is against my nature (simplified answer). Anguished Unmaking is a nice twist on things that I also enjoyed. It irked me more when Razia died in the Ravnica books. Isperia and Jarad kind of deserved... something, being jerks (is Jarad actually dead/redead? I never found anything the really confirms it).materpillar wrote: ↑3 years agoKaya's Onslaught - So I assume that means Kaya has killed Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider and the Ghost Council of Orzhova (Kaya's Wrath)? That's... super lame. I have a massive distaste for how planewalkers just stroll around and murderize super powerful and interesting beings across the multiverse. Admittedly, I don't read any of the non-magic card related stuff so maybe that's just been standard forever. Yet it irks me every time it happens. I even disliked Anguished Unmaking even though that one made sense. I find planeswalkers to be way less interesting than every other card.
Unfortunately. I really want to put it into Jorn, but between Jorn and a number of snow cards, it's going to take a while to earn trust at my group's table, even if Mono-G can be as bad or worse (please stop printing mana doubling cards WotC. I don't have enough removal).BeneTleilax wrote: ↑3 years agoIcebreaker Kraken seems like some sort of miserable loop waiting to happen.
Edit: For grammar.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:04 pm
They say they're "experimenting" with White - am I alone in not seeing it this set? Don't get me wrong; white got some very good cards this time around - but they're all just slightly pushed versions of stuff white does normally:
Clarion Spirit is a solid token-maker effect, but white gets token production all the time. This leans spellslinger in a way white tokens don't always, but so did Monastery Mentor (which I think is still, on balance, a lot better).
Doomskar is one of the best Wrath effects ever and certainly one of the best in recent memory - but White has gotten wraths since Alpha.
Glorious Protector is a fairly strong card, but also a riff on many already-existent cards like Ghostway or Restoration Angel.
Reidane, God of the Worthy is a great hatebear/hate card and seems super pushed for Standard, but white has been getting hatebears for a long time.
Search for Glory is probably the closest to "new"; all colors get to tutor for stuff they care about but this is definitely the most broad tutor white has received since Enlightened Tutor back in Mirage and possibly one of the best tutor spells WotC has printed in a decade. This is a strictly-better Call the Gatewatch since it also hits snow cards, sagas, and non-planeswalker legendaries and is generally a great card to add to white's toolkit, but still at the end of the day white has been searching for stuff it cares about since Mirage, with cards like this as recently as War of the Spark and Modern Horizons (with Ignite the Beacon and Ranger-Captain of Eos). This is actually pretty similar to Board the Weatherlight just better in every way. This is again very pushed for Standard (especially since gaining 2-3 life is not irrelevant there), but EDH has shown that 3-CMC tutors like this are "just okay".
Meanwhile, we have stuff like Ravenform, Tibalt's Trickery, and Dream Devourer that actually feel like new effects for their colors - not necessarily color-pie breaks, but more "these colors do this kind of effect, but not in this way or with these targets". Nevermind super spicy, super pushed nonsense like Orvar, the All-Form or In Search of Greatness. As the meme goes, "I expect nothing and yet I'm still disappointed".
Clarion Spirit is a solid token-maker effect, but white gets token production all the time. This leans spellslinger in a way white tokens don't always, but so did Monastery Mentor (which I think is still, on balance, a lot better).
Doomskar is one of the best Wrath effects ever and certainly one of the best in recent memory - but White has gotten wraths since Alpha.
Glorious Protector is a fairly strong card, but also a riff on many already-existent cards like Ghostway or Restoration Angel.
Reidane, God of the Worthy is a great hatebear/hate card and seems super pushed for Standard, but white has been getting hatebears for a long time.
Search for Glory is probably the closest to "new"; all colors get to tutor for stuff they care about but this is definitely the most broad tutor white has received since Enlightened Tutor back in Mirage and possibly one of the best tutor spells WotC has printed in a decade. This is a strictly-better Call the Gatewatch since it also hits snow cards, sagas, and non-planeswalker legendaries and is generally a great card to add to white's toolkit, but still at the end of the day white has been searching for stuff it cares about since Mirage, with cards like this as recently as War of the Spark and Modern Horizons (with Ignite the Beacon and Ranger-Captain of Eos). This is actually pretty similar to Board the Weatherlight just better in every way. This is again very pushed for Standard (especially since gaining 2-3 life is not irrelevant there), but EDH has shown that 3-CMC tutors like this are "just okay".
Meanwhile, we have stuff like Ravenform, Tibalt's Trickery, and Dream Devourer that actually feel like new effects for their colors - not necessarily color-pie breaks, but more "these colors do this kind of effect, but not in this way or with these targets". Nevermind super spicy, super pushed nonsense like Orvar, the All-Form or In Search of Greatness. As the meme goes, "I expect nothing and yet I'm still disappointed".
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:08 pm
Patron of the Moon is the card you're thinking of.BeneTleilax wrote: ↑3 years agoIcebreaker Kraken seems like some sort of miserable loop waiting to happen.
Not a ton of other stuff yet today. Seems like previews are finally starting to wind down?
- King Narfi's Betrayal looks reasonable. A bit of grave hate, a bit of recursion, a bit of card advantage.
- Starnheim Courser is another nice tool for white decks. Not super exciting, but nice to add to the color pie.
- Great Hall of Starnheim is probably a miss for me, but seems good for decks that care about angels.
In EDH, White's biggest weaknesses are a lack of mana advantage and a lack of card advantage, and I do see a fair number of cards helping on that front. Some of those are in narrow areas, but... progress is progress. Honestly, I think the bigger thing in Kaldheim is that these things are showing up at lower rarities - if an ability shows up frequently at common / uncommon, it will probably show up on a constructed-playable card eventually.
- Runeforge Champion does a passable Stoneforge Mystic impression (fetch a card and play it for cheap), although the power level of Runes is... significantly lower than that of equipment.
- Starnheim Courser is ramp.
- Spectral Steel gives a bit of card advantage / recursion, as does Master Skald.
- Shepherd of the Cosmos is a miniature Sun Titan.
- Giant Ox + Colossal Plow is actual ramp.
- Cosmos Elixir is more life-based card draw.
- Plus all the cards you mentioned.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:21 pm
You're not alone, none of the white cards seem to push the boundaries or generate interesting synergies in the way some of the cards in other colors do. That said, I think most of the white cards are not that great or special either. Of the ones you mention, Clarion Spirit is much worse than a lot of other white token producers (two spells is very difficult in a color with limited card draw). Doomskar is probably not in the top five board wipes, making it little more than a filler option unless you have foretell synergies. Reidane is similar to other effects we have seen and quite playable, but hardly as impactful as some other white hate cards. Search for Glory is a reasonable tutor and playable in mono white and boros, but as a 3 cmc restricted tutor without synergies also not that amazing. It will be useful to search up Serra's Sanctum though.
Glorious Protector is the only one that is quite pushed I feel (if unimaginative).
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:44 pm
Killed by Vraska leading up to WotS.Candlemane wrote: ↑3 years agosomething, being jerks (is Jarad actually dead/redead? I never found anything the really confirms it).
And yeah, I think it's pretty unlikely that Kaya's Onslaught indicates Vorinclex's actual demise.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:59 pm
My guess is that their "experiments" were: but i agree, not too much for white
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:11 pm
I only saw her say she did it. I don't think there was a passage of text describing the situation in real time. That said, I assume he's dead/redead. I like his character in the original books. They're always killing off my faves or making them jerk/evil. Or ruining the story. Etc.toctheyounger wrote: ↑3 years agoKilled by Vraska leading up to WotS.Candlemane wrote: ↑3 years agosomething, being jerks (is Jarad actually dead/redead? I never found anything the really confirms it).
And yeah, I think it's pretty unlikely that Kaya's Onslaught indicates Vorinclex's actual demise.
I don't know. I always got the feeling Vorinclex was smarter than a rabid animal from various cards and text before. This one seems... well, somewhat rabid and dumbed-down in the story, but to be fair we didn't get much in the way of his point of view. We don't know how he got there, so that is something that could explain things. I also have the feeling that it could be political. Last I read, Elesh Norn had a good handle on the plane, and I'm not sure the other Praetors were too influential anymore outside their zones.
Another thing to note is while it's open for now because of the weird silver vein stuff in Vorinclex's liar, there doesn't seem to be a sign of Vorinclex himself carrying Phyrexian Oil, which could doom a plane anyway. Kaya would have that to worry about even if she didn't know what it was. Probably worked it into plot armor via the mysterious veins.
Anyway, back on subject, some of the White cards are okay, but it does feel like White got forgotten a bit. However I will also say that this set seems more geared towards other formats than Commander, or at least less than the usual assumption. I can dig that, though we still need better White cards.
Re: Unreleased and New Card Discussion
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:18 pm
I think you could probably just chalk that up to disastrously bad authorial license.Candlemane wrote: ↑3 years agoI only saw her say she did it. I don't think there was a passage of text describing the situation in real time. That said, I assume he's dead/redead. I like his character in the original books. They're always killing off my faves or making them jerk/evil. Or ruining the story. Etc.
Also agreed, there's not a lot for white here that really pushes boundaries significantly.