Toc: I'm confused by your last line. Can you play online with others via Moxfield?
Not directly, but it interfaces really well over Spelltable using OBS. Rather than explain it myself, here's Mons from cEDH TV (enjoy the northern european accent):
Looks like my deck needed updating. Now that the deck is more low to the ground there really is no need for mana rocks. Uff feels weird having to take it out msot of the mana rocks. How times has changed.
To me, it actually feels really good. I don't at all care for the signets, and most of the mana positive rocks we don't really need, and freeing up slots for actual meaningful cards makes it feel more like an actual 100 card deck if that makes sense.
I play Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, Springleaf Drum and Dark Ritual and I really would like a little more gas. The problem I have is late game, I often have the card or cards to win, but my win-cons need more mana than I seem to have way too often.
Rocks and Rituals are often not what I want to be doing, but I find I often wish at some point that I had been doing rocks or had a ritual to do.
I don't want - generally - to have the kind of speed that my Prosper deck offers, but I would like just a bit more gas; I think Culling the Weak would be a perfectly fine add from every point of view, game play and flavor/theme.
Looks like my deck needed updating. Now that the deck is more low to the ground there really is no need for mana rocks. Uff feels weird having to take it out msot of the mana rocks. How times has changed.
To me, it actually feels really good. I don't at all care for the signets, and most of the mana positive rocks we don't really need, and freeing up slots for actual meaningful cards makes it feel more like an actual 100 card deck if that makes sense.
I play Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, Springleaf Drum and Dark Ritual and I really would like a little more gas. The problem I have is late game, I often have the card or cards to win, but my win-cons need more mana than I seem to have way too often.
Rocks and Rituals are often not what I want to be doing, but I find I often wish at some point that I had been doing rocks or had a ritual to do.
I don't want - generally - to have the kind of speed that my Prosper deck offers, but I would like just a bit more gas; I think Culling the Weak would be a perfectly fine add from every point of view, game play and flavor/theme.
Personally I've been pretty good with Altars and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Once I've got that land into play I am truly golden, likewise with the altars. Maybe a couple more ways to find these would help? Enlightened Tutor? Weathered Wayfarer? I've done very well with the latter. That said I could totally see Culling the Weak in here. Card needs reprinting for sure - assuming it isn't RL, I forget. There's also Sacrifice and Burnt Offering (which works here only because it uses text rather than mana symbols for r), but I can't see either of them being, like, amazing. Almost certain Dark Ritual is superior almost every time in my list.
All that said I'm not on Rooftop Storm, and I think my highest CMC is Gary; let's be honest we're not really looking to hardcast him.
As far as rocks go I could see going as far as Mana Crypt if price or proxy allows, maybe Chrome Mox too. I really don't think we want too much more than that personally. Past those you really run out of options that don't have metalcraft or need a way to untap themselves, or just aren't really good enough to take the place of a creature that farms cards for you when it attacks.
Re: Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:36 am
by dueba
Although somewhat unconventional, as far as rituals go i've found Songs of the Damned to be extremely helpful in games as it can essentially provide a second Crypt of Agadeem effect without the need to wait a turn to utilise it, providing more than i would typically need to cast mass reanimation spells or others, especially when playing several large spells within that crucial turn.
Notably a pretty obvious drawback is that the card is quite dead in the first few turns until we get going, but is nice to have available once the graveyard gets larger.
Although somewhat unconventional, as far as rituals go i've found Songs of the Damned to be extremely helpful in games as it can essentially provide a second Crypt of Agadeem effect without the need to wait a turn to utilise it, providing more than i would typically need to cast mass reanimation spells or others, especially when playing several large spells within that crucial turn.
Notably a pretty obvious drawback is that the card is quite dead in the first few turns until we get going, but is nice to have available once the graveyard gets larger.
While Culling the Weak is probably better overall, I think I quite like Songs of the Damned. The latter has a low floor, but a high ceiling! And it's certainly a better fit for my budget! Although only a common, Culling goes for a pretty penny. Nothing crazy by MtG standards, but enough to give a poor boy like me pause.
Of course, Prosper could just lend Varina his copy, but I haven't bothered to work out a system of sharing yet.
Crypt of Agadeem and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can help, but I still often find myself with too few mana for my expansive ambitions. Tonight I had Nykthos going, and it helped, but it usually nets only a few extra mana.
Altars and mana burst lands (nykthos, crypt) have been fine for me. i actually cut cabal coffers recently to try out another fetchable dual (Fetid Pools) since coffers had got me a couple times, but I think it is defensible too in a less island heavy list (my design of using cantrips requires a higher island count).
Re: Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:24 am
by pzbw7z
Razorlash Transmogrant has come up in the discussion before, has anyone else pulled the trigger on that guy? He seems to add value with Ashnod's Altar in the deck, providing another combo line.
Automaton can do the same tricks but he can also go off with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and either altar, so he's definitely on the wanted list, but I haven't chased one down yet.
Haakon is definitely a all-star in my mind; He really puts in work along with his Knight Tribe-mates. Another player on that team is very desirable.
Altars and mana burst lands (nykthos, crypt) have been fine for me. i actually cut cabal coffers recently to try out another fetchable dual (Fetid Pools) since coffers had got me a couple times, but I think it is defensible too in a less island heavy list (my design of using cantrips requires a higher island count).
I'd think Raffine's Tower would be better than that Fetid thing. It cycles too!
Re: Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:47 pm
by Eburon
Hello all,
It has been quite a while since I have posted here. One card I am currently considering is Tocasia's Welcome. It is triggered by almost every zombie we have, and we have the capability of triggering it on multiple turns. It seems like a fairly reliable way to draw some cards. Thoughts?
Re: Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:37 pm
by devilcatz
Triggers once each turn. Hmm.
Rhystic is nicer but is more expensive
You can win with almost anything but I don't think I would try to rely on a wide board with an anthem creature and a spell. 6 lord of the undeads would only end up with a bunch of non-evasive 7/7s anyway right? that's not even killing the table most of the time.
I'd think Akroma's Will would be a safer bet if you want to try winning with combat damage.
It has been quite a while since I have posted here. One card I am currently considering is Tocasia's Welcome. It is triggered by almost every zombie we have, and we have the capability of triggering it on multiple turns. It seems like a fairly reliable way to draw some cards. Thoughts?
I would run Black Market Connections before this one. Both do nothing the turn you cast them on curve. But when Black Market starts to do it's stuff, it's just crazy advantage.
You can win with almost anything but I don't think I would try to rely on a wide board with an anthem creature and a spell. 6 lord of the undeads would only end up with a bunch of non-evasive 7/7s anyway right? that's not even killing the table most of the time.
I'd think Akroma's Will would be a safer bet if you want to try winning with combat damage.
Having six 7/7's when your opponents were not expecting you to have that is not nothing but I do see your point. The idea would be more effective with lords like Undead Warchief or Calculating Lich which are way above curve here.
You can win with almost anything but I don't think I would try to rely on a wide board with an anthem creature and a spell. 6 lord of the undeads would only end up with a bunch of non-evasive 7/7s anyway right? that's not even killing the table most of the time.
I'd think Akroma's Will would be a safer bet if you want to try winning with combat damage.
If we're talking pure win by numbers in the red zone Coat of Arms might be worth trying out. Meta dependent of course, you don't wanna drop that against Krenko or Lathril.
Re: Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:34 am
by dueba
Merry Christmas all! it's been a great year for this thread . Looking forward to the upcoming year for all the new cards and developments for Varina.
Re: Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:28 pm
by Ardeyn
Merry Christmas to you all!
It's been a while since I had time to engage with this thread. But I had some game nights where I could test my Second Sunrise version of the deck.
Unfortunately, the Sunrise effects feel a bit clunky and a lot more suited to a controllish deck, where you have time to set up mana with fetch lands and sunrise et al., where you can afford to keep up mana on opponents' turns to interact and get maximum value out of the sunrise spells etc. I usually wished I had more zombies or draw. So, I'll probably shelve the idea for another deck and probably only leave in Brought Back and maybe Cosmic Intervention which I haven't drawn yet to assess its value. Planar Birth was really good actually for setting up a big mana late game; even better with Curse of the Restless Dead.
The discard synergies were solid, especially the Archfiend of Ifnir which enabled attacks that would have been really unprofitable otherwise and turned the playing field in my favor more than once.
I might need more reanimation spells with the rather high number of 5+ Mana creatures, though. Lich's Mastery mastery came up in none of the 10 games I played, unfortunately. So the verdict's still out on that one.
The games I won were with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and/or Gravecrawler loops or just plain Zombie beatdown.
Speaking of beatdown: has anyone tried Cover of Darkness? There's been quite a number of situations where I wanted to attack with Varina, but would just have lost her.
All that being said, I guess I drift towards the builds you guys have, too.
The games I won were with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and/or Gravecrawler loops or just plain Zombie beatdown.
Speaking of beatdown: has anyone tried Cover of Darkness? There's been quite a number of situations where I wanted to attack with Varina, but would just have lost her.
Haakon, along with Buried Alive has enabled a good share of my recent success.
While I haven't done anything about it yet, I've often been unable to attack profitably as well. Reconnaissance may be the answer there, but as I said, I haven't tried it.
While I haven't done anything about it yet, I've often been unable to attack profitably as well. Reconnaissance may be the answer there, but as I said, I haven't tried it.
I usually just go ahead and swing and let my attackers die personally but I'm a goon :p
People often take 1-2 to prevent me from getting more zombies in the yard to set up a Living Death. After you swing out then living death a few times people start thinking more about whether blocking to avoid taking a couple damage is worth it.
While I haven't done anything about it yet, I've often been unable to attack profitably as well. Reconnaissance may be the answer there, but as I said, I haven't tried it.
I usually just go ahead and swing and let my attackers die personally but I'm a goon :p
People often take 1-2 to prevent me from getting more zombies in the yard to set up a Living Death. After you swing out then living death a few times people start thinking more about whether blocking to avoid taking a couple damage is worth it.
Death Baron is still in my list as well, but I don't tutor for him so he shows up when he shows up. With no redundancy for the effect, it's not a big part of the plan. Which would also be the case for Reconnaissance, so maybe that's why I haven't tried it.
Re: Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:11 am
by toctheyounger
Honestly I just pick the best attacks I have or run the zombies into a meat grinder if needed. We want some in the bin and there's always some that aren't critical in play.
Failing that outpacing the board with sheer numbers in early turns usually does work.
. Looking forward to the upcoming year for all the new cards and developments for Varina.